Coming to the end of the visa run - local language schools may suffer most

[transam]

Wheres McWalen at a time like this, he knows all.  ?

[thaibeachlovers]

I hope that title is incorrect. Anyone on a 1 year multi non O will still be making visa runs. If they are stopping that, I am in the poo.

Don't tell me to get an extension- I have only used one entry so far.

[HUAHIN62]

I am here from many years and I've spent a lot of money to do all the paperwork to stay here legally with a work permit, over 100k per year in taxes, fees, accounting, fly to KL every 3 months, then, they told me that they will not renew my work permit until I hire 4 Thai nationals, what a joke I work two hours a day, I certainly not have work for four thai people, in the meantime I bring about 150k of fresh money every month in the country. So technicaly there is no solution for me as I not really work in thailand, I just answer to the phone and write a few emails a day, I manage a company in Europa. I got my WP refused, I was cheated by my accountant not paying my taxes and not doing the job, I went to 5 different accountant to compare and 4 on 5 was no serious, constantly hiding fees or lying. Staying here legally is a nightmare. Alternatively Elitecard light is 500k upfront, but will I have the right to work here ?

There is no need to fly to KL every 90 days if you have a WP, you just do your 90 day report. You can't get a WP without employing 4 Thai's first (FORMING A COMPANY ETC ETC) and thats been the case for many years so how come they didn't want to renew your WP, because to have the WP in the first place you had to employ the Thai's? I say BS!!!!

[technologybytes]

Having lived in Thailand for the last 12 years, mostly on Multiple Entry O Visas, I have seen my fair share of "immigration crackdowns", however this one does seem a lot more serious than previous crackdowns and it will effect a lot of us.

 

Thankfully I'm now old enough to be able to extend my stay for the purpose of retirement (commonly though incorrectly known as a retirement visa), if this crackdown had occured 5 years ago I'm sure I would not be here in Thailand today.

 

For most of us we have to weigh up the pros and cons of staying here year after year, a large part of that for me is feeling welcome..  honesty I don't feel we are as welcome as we once were.

[ubonjoe]

I hope that title is incorrect. Anyone on a 1 year multi non O will still be making visa runs. If they are stopping that, I am in the poo.

Don't tell me to get an extension- I have only used one entry so far.

You will not have a problem because you have  a visa. They are wanting people to get visas and stop doing in/out trips for visa exempt entries.

[bangon04]

It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

"Harvie, 26, who runs the blog A Farang Abroad, says he is from the UK, earns money in Australia, and spends up to nine months of the year in Thailand to take advantage of the warm weather and good food. He complained that the new measures would make it difficult for people like him who are legal and help the economy."

 

All the people who are not of retirement age, who buy or rent condos, support large Thai families, pour their money into the Thai economy, but have no intention to work..........

 

 

[JLCrab]

Another great topic:

 

Thai visa/immigration regulations that allow me to stay and work indefinitely:

 

Good

 

Thai visa/immigration regulations that don't allow me to stay and work indefinitely:

 

Bad/stupid/Don't they realize how much I contribute to the Thai economy?

Edited August 3, 2014 by JLCrab

[thaibeachlovers]

 

I hope that title is incorrect. Anyone on a 1 year multi non O will still be making visa runs. If they are stopping that, I am in the poo.

Don't tell me to get an extension- I have only used one entry so far.

You will not have a problem because you have  a visa. They are wanting people to get visas and stop doing in/out trips for visa exempt entries.

 

I'll let you all know in a couple of weeks how I got on. Heard bad things about the southern border, so not 100% confident.

[easybullet3]

"Several schools said it would be possible to enrol in a 200-hour course and obtain a one-year visa without having to attend any classes at all."

 

 erm:   anyonoe wanna let us know WHICH SCHOOLS do such a service ??  hahaha

 

i'm sure it will be useful for some readers out there!

[phantomfiddler]

It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

Behonset, you have your head where the sun never shines ! Have you seen the hundreds of thousands of indian and middle eastern lowlife that the tourism authorities seem to think is a good idea to attract ? I personally see nothing wrong with an english speaker doing a few teaching jobs here to try and make ends meet. Far better this than an english teaching school nearby where I could not even understand the english spoken by the thai national english teacher. Think of the end result, a double bonus, the thais learn how to speak english correctly and the farang has a little more spending money. Shame on you !

[Hellhound66]

I would hazard a guess that more than 95% of education visas are obtained for the sole purpose of staying in Thailand and not for any educational purposes whatsoever.  I would further add that in order for the crackdown on visa abusers to work, this avenue has to be shut down completely.  If one were to apply a little common sense you might ask, "what is the purpose of learning Thai unless you are already living here legitimately"?  Can someone tell me what visa's all the African drug dealers and pimps that hang out on Soi 3 and 15 have?  I am guessing education visas.  It is a loophole that needs to be exorcised with prejudice if the authorities actually want their crackdown to work.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Hellhound66

[Future3000]

If you're able to obtain a Visa for "Studying Thai" 4 hours per week, then perhaps you should also be able to obtain a Visa "Teaching English" 4 hours per week...

 

Makes alot more sense giving out Visas for Farang who are doing something that's actually beneficial...

 

Thai authorities should really think more practically when it comes to issuing Visas, why not give Farang the option to do some kind of good will or charity type of work for X amount of time in order to obtain a 6-12 month Visa. I know in Australia foreigners who want to extend their Visa have to go slave it out on a country farm/ orchard for a few months frist.

 

The whole Visa issue here is abit of a joke really. They talk about cracking down of Farang doing Visa runs/ staying here illegally etc, however now all you have to do is become a "student" or pay for some ridiculous "Elite" card. Also, who calls a visa entitlement an Elite card? It's like they're tying to sell it as some sort of hi-so club entry.

 

You got an Elite card? All good, you can come in. Stay for 5 years if you like.

 

Only in Thailand....

Edited August 3, 2014 by Future3000

[technologybytes]

I feel very sorry for unmarried guys under 50 who have purchased condos here. 

 

Until last year you could always get a O visa by showing your chanote to a consulate (though they never advertised it) starting last year they say they can't do that anymore.

 

It's a disgrace that the law allows a person to purchase property in a country but then potentially won't allow him to stay there.

Edited August 3, 2014 by technologybytes

[ColdSingha]

It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

"Harvie, 26, who runs the blog A Farang Abroad, says he is from the UK, earns money in Australia, and spends up to nine months of the year in Thailand to take advantage of the warm weather and good food. He complained that the new measures would make it difficult for people like him who are legal and help the economy."
 
All the people who are not of retirement age, who buy or rent condos, support large Thai families, pour their money into the Thai economy, but have no intention to work..........
 
 

he works in australia, should he work here too so he has the right to spend the money he earned from his main job? no of course not he'll be spending it elsewhere.

[Future3000]

I feel very sorry for unmarried guys under 50 who have purchased condos here. 

 

Until last year you could always get a O visa by showing your chanote to a consulate (though they never advertised it) starting last year they say they can't do that anymore.

 

It's a disgrace that the law allows a person to purchase property in a country but then potentially won't allow him to stay there.

 

Don't feel sorry for them. When there's a will, there's a way. And there is a way, infact there's multiple.

[fozzy58uk]

" EF English Proficiency Index, the world’s largest report of its kind, ranked Thailand 55th — ahead of only Panama, Kazakhstan, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq — on a list of 60 countries in its latest report, released last November. In 2010, Thailand was ranked 116th out of 163 countries surveyed for Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL) performance." If these statistics represent the teachers that are leaving, what is the loss?

 

I worked in  several positions in Thailand from 96-09, thus I feel more than qualified to make a comment here.

I worked in a Thai High school for 8 years. There were 18 Thai teachers in the foreign language dept, all held degrees in English, 5 of them held Master's degrees in English. Only four of them could hold a conversation in English. Six of them could not speak English at all, they conducted all their classes totally in Thai.

I confronted the head of the department about this only to be told  that the students didn't need to speak English, only pass their exams. If they wanted to speak English they could do so privately at language institutes.

The year I was appointed, I was one of three farang teacher's employed: one  was taking a break from studying law in the U.S, one held a teaching certificate and one had no quals but was a typical backpacking TEFLer with bags of energy and ideas.

The Thai teacher's taught class 3 times per week and each class had one period with the TEFLers, none of whom would be able to get a WP under the present rules.

At the end of the year, the student's marks in their final exams were a staggering 33% better than the previous year.

That my friend is the loss.

[thaibeachlovers]

I feel very sorry for unmarried guys under 50 who have purchased condos here. 

 

Until last year you could always get a O visa by showing your chanote to a consulate (though they never advertised it) starting last year they say they can't do that anymore.

 

It's a disgrace that the law allows a person to purchase property in a country but then potentially won't allow him to stay there.

I've said it before many times. Never buy any property here unless you can afford to walk away and lose it.

 

Can rent a very long time for the cost of a condo or house and move if the neighbours get too noisy.

[quandow]

I've worked for years at a school I won't name on a retirement visa.  It's the largest private school system in all southeast Asia (dozens and possibly over one hundred individual schools that ALL look the same), and I would venture to say that at least 80% of the Western teachers are working illegally.  We've already lost two teachers at our local school and others are quickly weighing options that DON'T include staying in Thailand.  It's going to be chaos.  The teachers our recruiter has had to hire are truly the bottom of the barrel.  No legitimate teachers want to come to Thailand with all the political unrest and the xenopohobic approach that the LOS takes.  BTW, Thailand spends more per student than ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.  I'm planning on moving to the Dominican Republic.  A tourist visa overstay of up to 9 MONTHS costs $23 USD and is no big deal - no banning, no potential jail time, they're happy to have you come back as soon as possible.  Add to that I can play music LEGALLY in public as opposed to Thailand's strictly enforced need for a work permit even if playing for free and Thailand is no longer attractive.  I WILL miss the soapies . . .

[ColdSingha]

I feel very sorry for unmarried guys under 50 who have purchased condos here. 
 
Until last year you could always get a O visa by showing your chanote to a consulate (though they never advertised it) starting last year they say they can't do that anymore.
 
It's a disgrace that the law allows a person to purchase property in a country but then potentially won't allow him to stay there.

I've said it before many times. Never buy any property here unless you can afford to walk away and lose it.
 
Can rent a very long time for the cost of a condo or house and move if the neighbours get too noisy.

walk away from it?

sell it and be thankful for the value appreciation and rent free living Edited August 3, 2014 by ColdSingha

[Doc46]

I say,I say, If you do not have the proper Visa and WP you should not be here, We do the right thing to live/retire in Thailand,,,, Wo Da Faq,,,, are they thinking?? Do the right thing and all is OKAY otherwise  get out !!!!or get kicked out !!!

[silent]

 

It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

and its the farangs fault that Thai schools won't do the necessary paperwork to get work permits? I don't think so ....

 

Have you never heard the story about an empty kettle, or the one about new bottles for old,  (or lamps or something)?

[Soutpeel]

 

I am here from many years and I've spent a lot of money to do all the paperwork to stay here legally with a work permit, over 100k per year in taxes, fees, accounting, fly to KL every 3 months, then, they told me that they will not renew my work permit until I hire 4 Thai nationals, what a joke I work two hours a day, I certainly not have work for four thai people, in the meantime I bring about 150k of fresh money every month in the country. So technicaly there is no solution for me as I not really work in thailand, I just answer to the phone and write a few emails a day, I manage a company in Europa. I got my WP refused, I was cheated by my accountant not paying my taxes and not doing the job, I went to 5 different accountant to compare and 4 on 5 was no serious, constantly hiding fees or lying. Staying here legally is a nightmare. Alternatively Elitecard light is 500k upfront, but will I have the right to work here ?

There is no need to fly to KL every 90 days if you have a WP, you just do your 90 day report. You can't get a WP without employing 4 Thai's first (FORMING A COMPANY ETC ETC) and thats been the case for many years so how come they didn't want to renew your WP, because to have the WP in the first place you had to employ the Thai's? I say BS!!!!

 

 

Well I am going to correct you on the forst part of your post, having a WP doesnt entitle someone to do 90 day reports, only being granted the extension of stay allows you to do 90 day reports someone can be on a WP and still have to visa run because someone doesnt qualify for the extension 

 

eg... somone can form a company, employ 4 Thai's and qualify for the WP, but for typically the first 2 years the WP holder will have to "visa run" every 90 days because the company hasnt been in business long enough to submit the audited books and tax returns need for the extension

 

now I am not saying the above is true in the case of "metrox"  as you do need 4 Thai "employees" to form a Ltd company to get the WP, I suspect his "employee's" are ghost employees and there has been no taxes/SS paid for them and thats the reason the WP renewal has been refused 

 

 

[mancub]

''  
 However, the officer was dubious about whether the crackdown would solve the problem of visa abusers, saying people could still find ways to cheat the system"

 

Surely  not without the assistance of an "understanding " official though ? 

Heaven forbid such a possibility !

[pth193]

Am I missing something here?  This guy has been working illeagaly for 5 years, and abusing the immigration system in a foriegn country. I don't think it is appropriate to trivialise this kind of law breaking and portray this guy as some kind of victim because he now considers Thailand 'his home'. If he pulled that kind of move in another country and got caught, he'd be detained, deported and blacklisted in a instant - why should we regard Thailand as being any different? Laws are laws, and foriegners should  respect the laws of a foriegn country, and not seek sympathy if they do break the law and get caught.

[transam]

Am I missing something here?  This guy has been working illeagaly for 5 years, and abusing the immigration system in a foriegn country. I don't think it is appropriate to trivialise this kind of law breaking and portray this guy as some kind of victim because he now considers Thailand 'his home'. If he pulled that kind of move in another country and got caught, he'd be detained, deported and blacklisted in a instant - why should we regard Thailand as being any different? Laws are laws, and foriegners should  respect the laws of a foriegn country, and not seek sympathy if they do break the law and get caught.

 

, theres 500,000 folk "missing" in the UK...........

[Carrerakiss]

When I came to teach at Payap University in Chiang Mai in 1989 I had to sign a 2 year contract. They sent me the proper paperwork for the non-Imm multiple entry visa and I moved to Chiang Mi. They helped me find a house to rent, took care of my work permit, gave me free Thai language lessons, Free Lanna Thai culture and history classes. They paid my expense when I had to leave every 90 days and reenter with a letter stating they guaranteed me while in Thailand for the first year and gave me the proper paperwork to get my second non imm multi entry visa and took care of everything again.
 
I am now on a retirement visa and visit the University often. They just offered me a teaching job again but I like the retirement visa so cannot teach. They should allow qualified English teachers to work with a retirement visa. Lots of us retired teachers living here and we would be dedicated long time employees. What a shame.

Isn't being retired, but continuing to work, an oxymoron? I can't personally fault the Thal law that says retired people can't work. It seems very sensible to me.

A couple of other points:

Immigration should also crack down on firms found employing people with out a work permit. By that I mean, moe frequent and better checks together with proper penalties when found out.

Employers should actually do what they are are supposed to do, that is have work permits for their staff. Tough luck if it means more paper work, but at the same time, maybe immigration can review the work permit application process to make sure it is streamlined and relevant. Nothing worse than having to provide a lot of detail that is barely relevant to the application in hand. Edited August 3, 2014 by Carrerakiss

[Equalizer]

It all stinks to high heaven. 25 million visitor a year and they say 70,000 people paid an overstay fine last year. Take away the 80% of these who had a few days or a week or two and the real figure is closer to 10.000. Work out the percentage out of the 25 million and you are left with a percentage of 0.00001% in other words virtually zero. Young people who come here and want to stay are just passing through an exploratory stage in their life, an experience. Most disappear after a while and go home to settle down. I have been here a while now. It is virtually impossible for most people to make a living here. Most just blow all their savings and go home broke as hard as they try to make a coin. Even people who had a few quid end up skint through one reason or another. This country is very good at getting people to spend their money here but on the flip side they are not appreciative in the slightest.  

[Oceanbat]

It all stinks to high heaven. 25 million visitor a year and they say 70,000 people paid an overstay fine last year. Take away the 80% of these who had a few days or a week or two and the real figure is closer to 10.000. Work out the percentage out of the 25 million and you are left with a percentage of 0.00001% in other words virtually zero. Young people who come here and want to stay are just passing through an exploratory stage in their life, an experience. Most disappear after a while and go home to settle down. I have been here a while now. It is virtually impossible for most people to make a living here. Most just blow all their savings and go home broke as hard as they try to make a coin. Even people who had a few quid end up skint through one reason or another. This country is very good at getting people to spend their money here but on the flip side they are not appreciative in the slightest.  

Try overstaying in Singapore.

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[dru2]

The ones who end up suffering the most will be the young Thai students who end up being taught English by someone who barely speaks it.

 

They already are.
 

[richardinthailand]

Thailand needs more properly qualified English language teachers, but tightening up visa laws won't achieve this.

To get good teachers you need to pay an attractive salary, minimum of 60,000 but ideally 100,000 plus.

Obviously the majority of schools and language centers can't afford this so we end up with the demand being filled by a load of backpackers running visa scams who teach to extend their holidays. This doesn't help Thai students, or genuine teachers who may lack qualifications but have a lot of experience or natural talent for teaching.

I would like to see the Thai government make a distinction between 'teachers' who need to be fully qualified and 'conversation practice native speakers' who don't need qualifications so much as a good attitude and enthusiasm, and to provide two work permit paths for these separate roles.

Give people a legal path to provide a service which is obviously in demand in Thailand.

It would be great if the one year work permit could be attached to the teacher not the school too, so that teachers could move jobs without having to restart the work permit process. The cost benefit analysis if whether to go ahead with a work permit application would then be more up to the teacher than the school.

I'd also love to see the Thai government do something similar to Japan's JET scheme, actively recruiting teachers at graduate fairs in the west and offering training in exchange for placement in a rural school for one or two years. The mindset should be attracting the best, not legislating to remove the dregs.

I also think that the native speaker requirement is given to much importance. Teaching ability and actual English fluency should be the key factors, not where someone was born.