Gaza conflict: Truce ends amid fresh fighting

[Jingthing]

Hamas breaks yet another truce. Savages.

Not true mate, not this time, according to the Israeli press of this morning the Israelis tried to

assassinate Muhammad Daff, is a marked man, he's the head of the militant arm of the Hamas, who has been

on Israel 's most wanted list for years and mange to miraculously survive 4 assignations attempt in the past,

this time also the papers that he might have survived but his wife and daughter got killed,

Woman and child murdered. Who is the savage ?

Israel are savages. Not Hamas. The casulty figures speak for themselves. Hamas kills only 3 civvies whilst Israel kills hundreds.

Blah blah blah. So happy Israel is strong given so many irrational haters in the world.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[arjunadawn]

I realize no one here cares, this is the freedom of such posting. While I clearly have a position in regard to supporting Israeli actions another poster forced me to consider a critical weakness in the thinking that underlies my conviction. I often assert that we should look to what could be done now, and that the past should only inform the choices, but "first cause" issues regarding Palestinian land "grab" have been somewhat overlooked in my thinking. So, over the past 24 hours I have revisited considerable information regarding recent history of the past few hundred years.

What if... what if what is happening to the local arabs today has actually been orchestrated, implemented, and sustained not only over the period of the state of Israel but into the British Mandate itself. What if the policies, such as destroying homes and villages, are not even anything new to the Israelis, but were also practices executed by the Brits. What if, while there were always indigenous Jews, over the course of some years in the 1930s Jewish immigration quickly came to represent such a significant part of the population that an effective "right of return" reverse scenario threatened the local arab population and their way of life as Jewish immigrants militarized; and they did. What if, in this particular era of the declining British Mandate, arabs protesting the Brits massacres, in response to arab protests, pushed the Brits further into the new and fertile zionist settlers camp and this proximity influenced the Brits facilitating the creation of the State of Israel?

What if the events today represent a deliberate, sustained effort to totally unseat a given population through exhaustion and incrementalism? What if my deeper prejudice against radical Islam is undermining an objective consideration of facts- do the arabs have a point? I tend to concede that there was a land grab of sorts, then often digress into what do we do now? But is first cause sufficient to really put this issue into context? Do I become a Jew hater if i concede such a strategic point? Does my recognizing that this may be true undermine my support for Israel today? Is it valid based on my correct knowledge that yes, muslims want all Jews dead, to side with Israel because of this?

For me my knowledge has deepened over the past few days, both by the cues of my opponents here and some homework. I had peripheral understanding of what happened in the beginning of the 20th century, but didn't realize that when when one plows through the data its apparent that the arabs were on the losing side of a sustained effort to unseat them from their land. I do not think I any longer question or rationalize this point. However, I still have no idea how to move forward. For those of you who think I am a dolt, ok; I am not. If any thinks this issue is so clear cut they are likely overlooking something. I don't think our greatest minds have considered this so clear cut. So, grant me the benefit of the doubt that I am seeking objectivity.

[Jingthing]

Yes I would say the fact that Hamas has genocidal intentions devalues their entire ideology! Duh on steroids.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

Could you use English, please...it is a forum rule.

I suppose it's anti-Semitism to ask you not to use Hebrew or Yiddish whatever it is?

I don't know. You'd have to look into your soul for the answer to that.

I meant to say ALWAYS kvetching, not also kvetching.

I would argue that a number of Yiddish words have actually been incorporated at least into the dominant native English speaking language in the world, the USA.

Such as SCHMUCK.

Aha! It seems KVETCH has also arrived in English!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kvetch

Edited August 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[arjunadawn]

Could you use English, please...it is a forum rule.

I suppose it's anti-Semitism to ask you not to use Hebrew or Yiddish whatever it is?

I don't know. You'd have to look into your soul for the answer to that.

I meant to say ALWAYS kvetching, not also kvetching.

I would argue that a number of Yiddish words have actually been incorporated at least into the dominant native English speaking language in the world, the USA.

Such as SCHMUCK.

Really? There is such a small number of us actually sustaining this thread at this point and its hardly necessary to be pedantic. The English language derives many words from yiddish, and other. Its not important to be right, but it is useful to be correct sometimes. "Kvetch, Schmuck," indeed "Putz" are words sufficiently incorporated into English. You do not have to argue that these words are part of the English language; they simply are.

[Jingthing]

It appears he was kvetching about the use of the word kvetching and didn't have a matzoh ball to stand on! (As shown, kvetching is now part of our wonderful ENGLISH language.)

Edited August 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[coma]

Hamas breaks yet another truce. Savages.

Not true mate, not this time, according to the Israeli press of this morning the Israelis tried to

assassinate Muhammad Daff, is a marked man, he's the head of the militant arm of the Hamas, who has been

on Israel 's most wanted list for years and mange to miraculously survive 4 assignations attempt in the past,

this time also the papers that he might have survived but his wife and daughter got killed,

Woman and child murdered. Who is the savage ?

Israel are savages. Not Hamas. The casulty figures speak for themselves. Hamas kills only 3 civvies whilst Israel kills hundreds.

Blah blah blah. So happy Israel is strong given so many irrational haters in the world.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Is that all you have when faced with figurative facts that don't look good for your argument.

[dr_lucas]

Could you use English, please...it is a forum rule.

I suppose it's anti-Semitism to ask you not to use Hebrew or Yiddish whatever it is?

I don't know. You'd have to look into your soul for the answer to that.

I meant to say ALWAYS kvetching, not also kvetching.

I would argue that a number of Yiddish words have actually been incorporated at least into the dominant native English speaking language in the world, the USA.

Such as SCHMUCK.

Really? There is such a small number of us actually sustaining this thread at this point and its hardly necessary to be pedantic. The English language derives many words from yiddish, and other. Its not important to be right, but it is useful to be correct sometimes. "Kvetch, Schmuck," indeed "Putz" are words sufficiently incorporated into English. You do not have to argue that these words are part of the English language; they simply are.

Correct. American English. Maybe not in Australia tho...

[arjunadawn]

Not true mate, not this time, according to the Israeli press of this morning the Israelis tried to

assassinate Muhammad Daff, is a marked man, he's the head of the militant arm of the Hamas, who has been

on Israel 's most wanted list for years and mange to miraculously survive 4 assignations attempt in the past,

this time also the papers that he might have survived but his wife and daughter got killed,

Woman and child murdered. Who is the savage ?

Israel are savages. Not Hamas. The casulty figures speak for themselves. Hamas kills only 3 civvies whilst Israel kills hundreds.Blah blah blah. So happy Israel is strong given so many irrational haters in the world.

Is that all you have when faced with figurative facts that don't look good for your argument.

"Israel are savages. Not Hamas. The casulty figures speak for themselves. Hamas kills only 3 civvies whilst Israel kills hundreds." coma-

Daff is a valid target. Daff knows he is a valid target. His family, regrettably, knew he was a valid target. Israel knows he is a valid target. Yet, you somehow think he is not a valid target. It is always sad when innocents have been injured in war. I know. I have seen an endless stream of innocent injured in war. But collateral damage at the expense of a high value target is rationalized, considered, mitigated, acted on... by any other opponent in a war footing like this. Why are facts and conditions of life always needing to be reversed or suspended for Jews?

No man can no another's mind and while these people may have been killed it is a stretch to state they were murdered. But then, how can one impart the emotional argument into reason unless they taint their delivery of facts. It is the emotive that is sought in regard to demonizing Israel as the archetypical "bad guy;" because the facts do not support this. Yes, adding numbers of dead make a point- but not this point. Israel puts more effort into avoiding collateral damage than any other nation-state, ever! Its simply counterproductive for Israel to kill innocents. Every civilian injured or killed cost a great deal of credibility to the Israeli state. Of course they don't prefer that road.

When anti Israeli arguments offer the "numbers" as somehow validating a point they are making (Israel loses less lives than Hamas therefore...), this doesn't make your point. It shows any number of things, but rarely the point that Israel is wrong or the bad guy. The numbers only reveal 1) a bad strategy of Hamas 2), poor implementation of tactics or goals 3), yes, perhaps a disproportionate response by Israel or 4), that Hamas misjudged Israel's current resolve to eradicate a menace, it perceives. If 3 is correct, see 4.

[dr_lucas]

Israel are savages. Not Hamas. The casulty figures speak for themselves. Hamas kills only 3 civvies whilst Israel kills hundreds.

Blah blah blah. So happy Israel is strong given so many irrational haters in the world.

Is that all you have when faced with figurative facts that don't look good for your argument.

Sorry, did you say something about savages? Today's news:

Hamas said to kill 11 suspected ‘collaborators’

The executions came on the heels of Thursday’s assassinations of two of Hamas’s most senior commanders and another senior member in an Israeli strike. Israel also attempted to assassinate Hamas military chief Muhammad Deif on Tuesday, and his fate is still unknown: Israeli officials have asserted he’s likely dead, but AFP reported that he survived.

The security official said the 11 suspected informers were killed early Friday at the Gaza City police headquarters. He says the 11 men had previously been sentenced by Gaza courts.

He spoke on condition of anonymity, because he was not authorized to discuss the incident with reporters. The killings of the 11 were also reported by al-Rai and al-Majd, two websites linked to Hamas.

Source: http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-kill-11-suspected-collaborators/

Edited August 22, 2014 by dr_lucas

[Seastallion]

I realize no one here cares, this is the freedom of such posting. While I clearly have a position in regard to supporting Israeli actions another poster forced me to consider a critical weakness in the thinking that underlies my conviction. I often assert that we should look to what could be done now, and that the past should only inform the choices, but "first cause" issues regarding Palestinian land "grab" have been somewhat overlooked in my thinking. So, over the past 24 hours I have revisited considerable information regarding recent history of the past few hundred years.

What if... what if what is happening to the local arabs today has actually been orchestrated, implemented, and sustained not only over the period of the state of Israel but into the British Mandate itself. What if the policies, such as destroying homes and villages, are not even anything new to the Israelis, but were also practices executed by the Brits. What if, while there were always indigenous Jews, over the course of some years in the 1930s Jewish immigration quickly came to represent such a significant part of the population that an effective "right of return" reverse scenario threatened the local arab population and their way of life as Jewish immigrants militarized; and they did. What if, in this particular era of the declining British Mandate, arabs protesting the Brits massacres, in response to arab protests, pushed the Brits further into the new and fertile zionist settlers camp and this proximity influenced the Brits facilitating the creation of the State of Israel?

What if the events today represent a deliberate, sustained effort to totally unseat a given population through exhaustion and incrementalism? What if my deeper prejudice against radical Islam is undermining an objective consideration of facts- do the arabs have a point? I tend to concede that there was a land grab of sorts, then often digress into what do we do now? But is first cause sufficient to really put this issue into context? Do I become a Jew hater if i concede such a strategic point? Does my recognizing that this may be true undermine my support for Israel today? Is it valid based on my correct knowledge that yes, muslims want all Jews dead, to side with Israel because of this?

For me my knowledge has deepened over the past few days, both by the cues of my opponents here and some homework. I had peripheral understanding of what happened in the beginning of the 20th century, but didn't realize that when when one plows through the data its apparent that the arabs were on the losing side of a sustained effort to unseat them from their land. I do not think I any longer question or rationalize this point. However, I still have no idea how to move forward. For those of you who think I am a dolt, ok; I am not. If any thinks this issue is so clear cut they are likely overlooking something. I don't think our greatest minds have considered this so clear cut. So, grant me the benefit of the doubt that I am seeking objectivity.

Refreshing to see anyone consider deeper than the surface, even if it meant facing a possible change of mind.

I think you are right that there has been a steady campaign of exhaustion and incrementalism...and attrition, we mustn't forget attrition. We;re seeing it in the casualty figures every day. I think the British have a lot to answer for (which doesn't excuse war crimes of today).

There's a couple of things I would pull you up on...Detesting and protesting what Israel is doing does not equate to being a Jew hater. That's the chip-on-the-shoulder tactic of many Jews when they call any crticism of Israel anti-Semitism.

Some Muslims want all Jews dead would be accurate. Saying "Muslims want all Jews dead" kind of generalises and kind of makes it sound like all Muslims hate Jews. Asserting that it is "correct knowledge" makes the statement even less a generalisation and more of a fact. I think your knowledge is flawed, deeply flawed.

"Some Israelis want all Palestinians dead", would be just as accurate, by the way. There would be howls of protest should anyone claim "Israelis want all Palestinians dead" and rightly so.

It may help to leave aside ISIS when considering Israel/Palestine issues. It seems Al Qaeda and ISIS may have clouded your thoughts, coloured your view of Muslims...but you would know, not me...it's just an outsider's impression.

[Seastallion]

Not true mate, not this time, according to the Israeli press of this morning the Israelis tried to

assassinate Muhammad Daff, is a marked man, he's the head of the militant arm of the Hamas, who has been

on Israel 's most wanted list for years and mange to miraculously survive 4 assignations attempt in the past,

this time also the papers that he might have survived but his wife and daughter got killed,

Woman and child murdered. Who is the savage ?

Israel are savages. Not Hamas. The casulty figures speak for themselves. Hamas kills only 3 civvies whilst Israel kills hundreds.

Blah blah blah. So happy Israel is strong given so many irrational haters in the world.

Is that all you have when faced with figurative facts that don't look good for your argument.

"Israel are savages. Not Hamas. The casulty figures speak for themselves. Hamas kills only 3 civvies whilst Israel kills hundreds." coma-

Daff is a valid target. Daff knows he is a valid target. His family, regrettably, knew he was a valid target. Israel knows he is a valid target. Yet, you somehow think he is not a valid target. It is always sad when innocents have been injured in war. I know. I have seen an endless stream of innocent injured in war. But collateral damage at the expense of a high value target is rationalized, considered, mitigated, acted on... by any other opponent in a war footing like this. Why are facts and conditions of life always needing to be reversed or suspended for Jews?

No man can no another's mind and while these people may have been killed it is a stretch to state they were murdered. But then, how can one impart the emotional argument into reason unless they taint their delivery of facts. It is the emotive that is sought in regard to demonizing Israel as the archetypical "bad guy;" because the facts do not support this. Yes, adding numbers of dead make a point- but not this point. Israel puts more effort into avoiding collateral damage than any other nation-state, ever! Its simply counterproductive for Israel to kill innocents. Every civilian injured or killed cost a great deal of credibility to the Israeli state. Of course they don't prefer that road.

When anti Israeli arguments offer the "numbers" as somehow validating a point they are making (Israel loses less lives than Hamas therefore...), this doesn't make your point. It shows any number of things, but rarely the point that Israel is wrong or the bad guy. The numbers only reveal 1) a bad strategy of Hamas 2), poor implementation of tactics or goals 3), yes, perhaps a disproportionate response by Israel or 4), that Hamas misjudged Israel's current resolve to eradicate a menace, it perceives. If 3 is correct, see 4.

It is clear in International Law (and in US Law incidentally) that assassination is illegal. In recent years the US have coined the term "targeted killing" to try to legitimise their crimes committed with drones, but calling it something else does not lessen the crime. It is extra-judicial and not battlefield killing. The Deiff attempt which killed his wife and son is even more tragic in that (Isreali) news reports say that Israeli intelligence knew it was unlikely he was in that house (which was not his house either).

There are other terms that the US has coined, such as "collateral damage" to try to sanitise the terrible things they have been doing...but that's corollary, though that particular term is something used in our current discussions....

When the casualty figures are so vastly disparate, there is indeed a point. Hark back to pebble falling short vs big guy with knife and club. Naughty little boy, yes, but brutal bully indeed.

[Ulysses G.]

It is clear in International Law (and in US Law incidentally) that assassination is illegal.

Wrong again. Not when employed against terrorists or combatants engaged in asymmetrical warfare.

[Ulysses G.]

Detesting and protesting what Israel is doing does not equate to being a Jew hater.

Indeed, but that does not change the fact that a huge percentage of those protesting against Israel detest them because they are Jew haters. The recent protests with neo-Nazis, radical Islamists and other anti-Semites marching with the left, prove that beyond any doubt.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

Detesting and protesting what Israel is doing does not equate to being a Jew hater.

Indeed, but that does not change the fact that a huge percentage of those protesting against Israel detest them because they are Jew haters. The recent protests with neo-Nazis, radical Islamists and other anti-Semites marching with the left prove that beyond any doubt.

There are Jew haters and anti-Semites. I detest them too. To state that they are a "huge percentage" of the people who detest Israel's crimes is wrong and a figment of your imagination. But anyway...you're detracting away from what I said, and what I said, especially in the context and conversation I was having, was 100% correct.

Please don't use your childish tactics to try to score imaginary points, there are no points.

[arjunadawn]

Refreshing to see anyone consider deeper than the surface, even if it meant facing a possible change of mind.

I think you are right that there has been a steady campaign of exhaustion and incrementalism...and attrition, we mustn't forget attrition. We;re seeing it in the casualty figures every day. I think the British have a lot to answer for (which doesn't excuse war crimes of today).

There's a couple of things I would pull you up on...Detesting and protesting what Israel is doing does not equate to being a Jew hater. That's the chip-on-the-shoulder tactic of many Jews when they call any crticism of Israel anti-Semitism.

Some Muslims want all Jews dead would be accurate. Saying "Muslims want all Jews dead" kind of generalises and kind of makes it sound like all Muslims hate Jews. Asserting that it is "correct knowledge" makes the statement even less a generalisation and more of a fact. I think your knowledge is flawed, deeply flawed.

"Some Israelis want all Palestinians dead", would be just as accurate, by the way. There would be howls of protest should anyone claim "Israelis want all Palestinians dead" and rightly so.

It may help to leave aside ISIS when considering Israel/Palestine issues. It seems Al Qaeda and ISIS may have clouded your thoughts, coloured your view of Muslims...but you would know, not me...it's just an outsider's impression.

I don't have a change of mind. I had always known the first cause was likely a land grab. Its just recent studying suggests that before during and after this the local arabs were seriously being minimized, harassed, villages burned by brits, etc. I found it more than curious (as I always defend Israel's objection to right of return) that in the early 1930s the Jewish population doubled via immigration and the local arabs were mortified that there would be a tipping point. I just never looked into this deeply, through the eyes of arabs. It doesn't really change my position regarding Israel today. It had helped be clarify that what I most object to is the underlying hate, which you take issue with.

No, protesting Israel does not make one a Jew hater. I know this and if i stated or inferred otherwise it wasn't right. But there are clarion calls, buzzwords, that IMO really do suggest a deeper antipathy toward Jews. Its like pornography (Ill know it when I see it (US Fed Judge dumbass statement). So while differing men may meet in intellectual battle, it remains true that some reveal their deeper bias unintentionally. I do note that with some.

I do generalize that muslims want Jews dead. If I did not I would be living in denial or an idiot. Of course they do. This is not physics where one exception invalidates my point; perhaps there are some who do not, but they are not good muslims! The analogy of "Israelis want all Palestinians dead" is false. You see, throughout the world, every day, muslims are taught to hate Jews. No matter the bantering about, punch and duck, you and me wrestle with, Islam teaches Jew hatred. Now, as Islam is a recognized religion representing a significant portion of the world, and most do not recognize it as an ideology, as I do, I will refrain from saying anything more off this singular point- Jews may hate equally, but they do not have authority from god to hate and to kill arabs.

That the Koran inculcates Jew hate is hardly generalized; how could it possibly be overlooked? The koran and hadith are meant to be literal. This is why, separate from the scriptures, the life of the prophet has as much validity. It is right and proper to emulate him in all that a good muslim does. There is great disdain in these documents towards Jews. These facts, as I see them, inform the problems in Gaza. This has also been my personal realization: my deeper understandings of Islam bias me in the Arab/Israeli issue. This is probably why I have a position. I do fear Islamic fundamentalism and it influences my perspective at times.

The IS and Gaza conflict are related, though not directly. Some have suggested they might be more related then we realize, but I am unsure. Thank you for your post.

[arjunadawn]

It is clear in International Law (and in US Law incidentally) that assassination is illegal. In recent years the US have coined the term "targeted killing" to try to legitimise their crimes committed with drones, but calling it something else does not lessen the crime. It is extra-judicial and not battlefield killing. The Deiff attempt which killed his wife and son is even more tragic in that (Isreali) news reports say that Israeli intelligence knew it was unlikely he was in that house (which was not his house either).

There are other terms that the US has coined, such as "collateral damage" to try to sanitise the terrible things they have been doing...but that's corollary, though that particular term is something used in our current discussions....

When the casualty figures are so vastly disparate, there is indeed a point. Hark back to pebble falling short vs big guy with knife and club. Naughty little boy, yes, but brutal bully indeed.

It is clear that the age of chivalry has passed and officers, et al, are no longer afforded quarter in war.It may be true that assassination is illegal but it hardly brings me honor to say the US continues to employ such tactics as instruments of diplomacy. Indeed, the US now, circuitously, reasons it can assassinate even Americans. America actually assasinates people frequently now. (Wow, when I consider this I really must ask if this is a deterrent to aggression or an invitation. I don't know but I do know there are some really bad guys out there). Perhaps many of the landmarks that have guided our conduct previously are in revision.

Should there be assassinations? I don't know. On the one hand it can be argued Hamas is a terrorist organization and the assassination is a judgement in absentia; but this argument is not made. Hamas, in a mind numbing twist, is also a duly elected entity.

Collateral damage isn't really about sanitizing. Collateral damage is a factual commentary in battle damage assessment BDA. Its not one of the mouth speak tools for sterility, though there are many. Perhaps in this use it did this, though. But in real Orwellian mouth speak "kinetic action" as a replacement for war surely BS.

[Steely Dan]

It's quite amusing to see those claiming Israeli strikes were indiscriminate now complain when Hamas leaders are targeted, you can hardly get any more discriminate than that. Meanwhile we have an Israeli human shield injury as a man is badly injured using his body to shield children, as oppose to using children to shield combatants.

[arjunadawn]

Detesting and protesting what Israel is doing does not equate to being a Jew hater.

Indeed, but that does not change the fact that a huge percentage of those protesting against Israel detest them because they are Jew haters. The recent protests with neo-Nazis, radical Islamists and other anti-Semites marching with the left prove that beyond any doubt.

There are Jew haters and anti-Semites. I detest them too. To state that they are a "huge percentage" of the people who detest Israel's crimes is wrong and a figment of your imagination. But anyway...you're detracting away from what I said, and what I said, especially in the context and conversation I was having, was 100% correct.

Please don't use your childish tactics to try to score imaginary points, there are no points.

I have a strange perspective. While I agree totally with Ulysses, I have a libertarian side that believes if someone wants to hate, let em hate. More damage to themselves. But when haters collectively employ the hate toward ends in the physical world, I become concerned. It is something that is hard to measure, IMO, but why do I have the sense that there is often real hatred in many of those who protest Israel? I just do. It may be because there is rarely protests that don't also reveal other deeper disdain, or associated ugliness IMO. How do you measure hatred? And still, I have the sense that there is so much of it directed toward Jews because they are Jewish.

[Ulysses G.]

But anyway...you're detracting away from what I said, and what I said, especially in the context and conversation I was having, was 100% correct.

Well I'm glad that you are convincing yourself anyway. Did it ever occur to you that everyone on the thread thinks that they are "correct"?

[arjunadawn]

But anyway...you're detracting away from what I said, and what I said, especially in the context and conversation I was having, was 100% correct.

Well I'm glad that you are convincing yourself anyway. Did it ever occur to you that everyone on the thread thinks that they are "correct"?

Dude, I laughed my ass of reading this.

[dr_lucas]

But anyway...you're detracting away from what I said, and what I said, especially in the context and conversation I was having, was 100% correct.

Well I'm glad that you are convincing yourself anyway. Did it ever occur to you that everyone on the thread thinks that they are "correct"?

Dude, I laughed my ass of reading this.

Dude, first time I am able to understand a complete post of yours without using a dictionary (despite the minor typo)!

We are making a progress.

[Seastallion]

But anyway...you're detracting away from what I said, and what I said, especially in the context and conversation I was having, was 100% correct.

Well I'm glad that you are convincing yourself anyway. Did it ever occur to you that everyone on the thread thinks that they are "correct"?

Can someone tell me how to put this clown on "ignore"? I have absolutely no interest in his inane, biased, disingenuous, sexist, racist comments any longer. Please.

[arjunadawn]

Dude, I laughed my ass of reading this.

Dude, first time I am able to understand a complete post of yours without using a dictionary (despite the minor typo)!

We are making a progress.

Yea, you and I discussed that and perhaps I owe it to others who have suffered my posts to explain. I never had any formal education; all my learning was self taught. I read only what I wanted to read and none of it was contemporary literature; mostly the classics and items related to theology and mysticism. So, my language became... this. My writing mimicked the books I tended to read. If anyone has ever read 19th century books they would see the connection right away. I don't try to be verbose but I clearly am. Regrettably, I actually speak like this too. For those who have suffered, sorry. I am a pretty ok guy I just tend to... go on a bit.

[Jip99]

Detesting and protesting what Israel is doing does not equate to being a Jew hater.

Indeed, but that does not change the fact that a huge percentage of those protesting against Israel detest them because they are Jew haters. The recent protests with neo-Nazis, radical Islamists and other anti-Semites marching with the left prove that beyond any doubt.

There are Jew haters and anti-Semites. I detest them too. To state that they are a "huge percentage" of the people who detest Israel's crimes is wrong and a figment of your imagination. But anyway...you're detracting away from what I said, and what I said, especially in the context and conversation I was having, was 100% correct.

Please don't use your childish tactics to try to score imaginary points, there are no points.

I have a strange perspective. While I agree totally with Ulysses, I have a libertarian side that believes if someone wants to hate, let em hate. More damage to themselves. But when haters collectively employ the hate toward ends in the physical world, I become concerned. It is something that is hard to measure, IMO, but why do I have the sense that there is often real hatred in many of those who protest Israel? I just do. It may be because there is rarely protests that don't also reveal other deeper disdain, or associated ugliness IMO. How do you measure hatred? And still, I have the sense that there is so much of it directed toward Jews because they are Jewish.

I understand that.

I (and many in the west) may disagree with the heavy-handed Israeli responses at times - but you will never see me waving a flag/placard at an anti-semetic protest meeting.

[arjunadawn]

I love this picture. I have no idea what you guys have done to me but this is pretty much how I went to sleep last night! :-)

Thanks though.

[Ulysses G.]

The truth finally comes out. Hamas ADMITS to kidnapping and murdering those three Israeli teenagers. It will be interesting to see if all the Hamas apologists will finally admit it too.

JERUSALEM (AP) — A senior Hamas leader has said the group carried out the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli teens in the West Bank in June — the first time anyone from the Islamic militant group has said it was behind an attack that helped spark the current war in the Gaza Strip.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[CBR250]

I noted in this morning's news that a young boy was killed in Israel by mortar fire from Gaza. My condolences go out to his family. It is tragic to lose young children as a result of the stupidity of the older generation. I would add that there were also children killed in Gaza this week - at least a further 4 were reported in the press. Our job as adults is to prevent this happening, not encourage it by jumping on some ideological bandwagon driven by insane political opportunists.

I would add that I have little hope that a reasonable basis for a truce will be found anytime soon. Netanyahu and his cronies appear to have substantial support for more war mongering. This past week, a poll published by the Israel Democracy Institute found 48% of those questioned thought an appropriate amount of force had been used by the Israeli military; 45% said too little force had been deployed; and 6% thought too much had been used. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/20/gaza-war-resumes-as-talks-break-down)

Gaza is in ruins. Over 2000 people dead. Hundreds of them children. And 45% of Israelis think that too little force has been deployed, while only 6% think that too much force has been used?? Either this poll is inaccurate, or the Israelis have become a particularly vicious people, spurred on no doubt by the anti-Palestinian propaganda spewed out by mainstream media.

[Ulysses G.]

Spurred on no doubt by the violence the Palestinian Arabs have caused for the last 100 years.

[konying]

Palestinians are raised from day one in hatred agains Israelis.

I have not noticed the opposite in Israel.

I have. On my visit I spoke to many bigoted Israeli teenagers who had a fanatical hatred of Palestinians. Maybe you weren't looking hard enough.

For starters try the Jewish psychopaths who kidnapped and burnt a young Palestinian boy to death

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinians-say-16yearold-found-in-forest-was-burned-to-death-by-israeli-extremists-9587172.html

Then Google price tag Zionist Israel. You will get hundreds of hits detailing the daily hate crimes dished out by Jewish thugs.

Here are a few recent headlines from Haaretz ... lots more here.

http://www.haaretz.com/misc/tags/Price%20tag-1.477120

Israeli police force must tackle hate crimes

'Price tag' vandals hit settlers' home being built by Palestinian laborers

Palestinian car vandalized in an alleged 'price tag' attack, West Bank.

Teen from West Bank settlement charged in Abu Ghosh hate crime

Anti-Christian graffiti spray-painted on Be'er Sheva church

I do not believe you have ever set 1 foot in Israel , I even doubt you know it's exact location.

It is against the law to discriminate against Arabs and you will find even speaking bad is punishable .

Price attacks are carried out by a minority and frowned upon by majority, not to mention punishable by law in comparison where attacks on Jews are encouraged , paid for and celebrated.

Edited August 23, 2014 by konying