British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[deecee10]

Oh the irony!!

After all the posts here about the violent Thais and the not to be trusted Burmese, what an anticlimax if the culprit is a fellow Brit .

it's hardly irony

[HooHaa]

Casting around (Facebook) IF it's the same guy, it may be that drugs, specifically DMT were involved.

Please explain your thinking here. If you know anything about DMT, it doesn't cause rage.

DMT hahahaha oh boy. First please fine me some DMT in Thailand because I would love to find a source of it, secondly nope you know very little / nothing about DMT. You Can barely move when using DMT and it lasts only 15 minutes or so, it is not an addictive drug, a party drug or a drug that induces rage.

FYI: DMT is easily synthesized from locally available plants in thailand. do your research.

[WhamBam]

...when I read the story about the "blood-stained hoe" I kept thinking that that would not be a weapon of choice for a Thai, Myanmar or otherwise Asian killer. They are usually not strong enough to handle such a weapon.

What?

When you see them working digging trenches and piles of sand / soil with these hoes hour after hour, yes they certainly have the strength. Asians are very wiry and a LOT stronger than you think. Maybe you need to get out into the country a bit more and see how hard many of these people do work.

[Gandtee]

Although certainly a hopped-up farang in a drug-induced jealous rage is a possibility, maybe even a strong one, we should wait and see how this plays out...

The Thai PBS news report isn't very clear and some things may be lost in cultural translation:

Does "arrested" just mean "detained for further questioning"?

That is what this different report suggests:

http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2014/09/17/police-question-backpacker-focus-shifts-blonde-hair-found-victims-hand

This other report also suggests the pants with blood stains were found in the victim David's room, not in the suspect's suitcase ... which would be odd for a murderer to kill somebody then go to the victim's shared room and leave his blood-stained pants behind.

Here is The Telegraph's current report:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11100980/British-man-prime-suspect-in-Thailand-murder.html

The Telegraph quotes the head of Kho Tao police when I thought the regional commander had come to take over the case.

And these other reports could actually support the suspect's claim that the injury to his hand happened the day before--e.g. he cut himself on the sharp rocks in shallow water and then removed and discarded his stained and ruined pants in his room (speculation but possible) along with bandages.

In any event, you would think that if Cristopher Alan Vare is the murderer, then his fingerprints would be all over the hoe, and this could be very quickly confirmed without waiting for DNA tests.

We'll have to wait and see...

But if Christopher Alan Vare is not the killer, then the police are certainly splashing his identity everywhere before checking certain basic matters and presumably before even charging him with a crime. This shouldn't be done to anybody--Farang or Thai.

Giving out suspects names is what the BIB do here. Shooting from the lip. Unless of course it is an influential suspect.

[bangrak]

The camera showed a Asian man, so why are they trying to pin it on a foreigner. Trouble finding the right person?

Of course a Thai couldn't do such a thing?

The public was shown ONE picture taken by the camera, of an Asian man, what was at that time prefectly fitting the typical, despicable, automatic reaction of the RTP: 'It are the migrant workers'. How many other pictures were taken by that camera or other close ones about the time of the murders and not taken into consideration? The RTP can be very 'selective' in its interpretation of a police job... And very 'creative' in the way of 'orienting' the local opinions and the media...

[iReason]

Headline on TV Front page:

Koh Tao: BBC UPDATE: Two British men to be questioned after being arrested at the airport

Story:

“Police said the men had not been formally detained or arrested but had been prevented from leaving Thailand.”

Is that you George?

Edited September 17, 2014 by iReason

[metisdead]

Another post in violation of fair use policy has been removed. Other nonsense and trolling posts have been removed.

[bangrak]

I am not convinced.

How could he have a hoe that night ?

Where did he get that hoe ?

It is not normal a tourist has a hoe with himself.

If he had picked the hoe before, it means the murder was premeditate. Absolutely. Otherwise I doubt he found it on the beach.

They use them at beach bars to rake the sand of leaves and rubbish.

But it would still be interesting to know who this specific hoe belongs to, and at which spot it was normally kept at night (Thais don't leave any equipment laying around, as any piece is prone to grow little legs and disappear very fast here around)... Not sure the 'rightfull owner' will easily come forward, as long as the BiBs don't start barking around about it...

[ParadiseLost]

14 pages of spite spewed out over and over for all to see. Some really sad cases posting here.

Until the DNA evidence, nobody knows anything.

This thread should have been closed 12 pages ago.

It does help to grow my ignore list though. Amazing how many noob posters have so much to say...

Edited September 17, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[green job]

Good to hear the Burmese were cleared. For quick closure I hope the evidence ends with the backpacker. Less damage to Thailand's identity for visitors. At least every inch of a break that Thailand gets now is a good break.

How on earth can you say such a thing,,,Does it matter what country the culprit came from?????? This is far more serious than a football match, Everyone here seems to treat is so.

I also live in Thailand,it would never enter my mind to quote such crap.

[les Dennis]

Are qualified Thai detectives within the Thai police working on this. I hope so. Already we know that the foot soldier police thought that on the CCTV was the poor victims. Unbelievable. Looks nothing like them. Did they release the suspect and then call him back for more questioning. Shambolic. These people have never had to solve a crime in their life, and arent qualified to. They just clutter up a very very serious investigation in the hope that they get a few mins of stardom. My deepest sympathy goes to the family and friends of the deceased. God bless.

[alanrchase]

I am quite surprised that General Prayuth has made statements that the holidaymakers should have known better than to leave themselves vulnerable by venturing out in the early hours on the island.

Good grief. I've never been there myself but have learnt the island is only three miles long . In theory you should feel 10 times safer in a small place like that in the early hours of the morning than in Bangkok or Pattaya ? If not, then Thailand really does have a problem with safety

Bangkok is a big place, island is small. Island is full of people on booze and drugs? No idea myself, never been, size is not everything.

Size alone may not matter but the fact that the entire resident population of the island assisted police the way they did with monitoring, who was coming and going from the island should make any wannabe criminal think twice.

Unfortunately the police don't make anyone think twice. A rottweiler and a german shepherd do. I am not being facetious, but I have lived on these islands most of my life, and we have always had to maintain our own security through being vigilant. Never do the police patrol the beaches at night.. Never can we call on them for assistance. They are here to mop up the spoils, after crimes and accidents have occurred, for in Thailand, "crime pays". 2 uniformed cops on the beat (not on the take), would prevent most of these types of crime from ever being committed, certainly in a place like Koh Tao. (Someone here said that the crime occurred 50 metres from the police station!! .)

Why should the police be responsible for the actions of adults? They are required when the adults throw tantrums. Unfortunately adult tantrums result in a bit more than tears.

[South]

14 pages of spite spewed out over and over for all to see. Some really sad cases posting here.

Until the DNA evidence, nobody knows anything.

This thread should have been closed 12 pages ago.

It does help to grow my ignore list though. Amazing how many noob posters have so much to say...

Pretty much the only sensible post so far.

[petercool]

A post using crude language and being a slur post was removed

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Triplebank999]

Good to hear the Burmese were cleared. For quick closure I hope the evidence ends with the backpacker. Less damage to Thailand's identity for visitors. At least every inch of a break that Thailand gets now is a good break.

I don't give a damn of the nationality of the killer or the reputation of Thailand.

What I want is the real killer to be found for the sakes of the families of those kids and the sakes of other people being killed by the same murderer.

"...for the sakes of the families of those kids..."

There were no children involved in these murders, both victims were mid 20s adults.

[bangrak]

Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000.

(aren't you alway the one insisting on comparing like with like, here we are comparing deaths of foreign visitors of 1 nationality)

360 British died in Thailand in the last 12 months. Up to you how you believe they died.

But anyway you look at it, you are 10x more likely to die visiting Thailand than you are visiting Spain.

(If you are British)

Thailand isn't remotely close to one of the world's highest per capita murder rate.

It is below average globally, and just slightly above the rate of the US. The murder rate has fallen substantially since your 2000 statistic too, there were only 3,307 murders in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

This could be right, when the number of accidental deaths, suicides, unexplained casualties and disappearings has not been growing. Is it? Can we assume the RTP is not at all 'connected' with TAT etc.?

[BigC]

Let's hope there's more genuine evidence than ' seen strolling near the scene ', I presume if it's him he was strolling before and not after the crime.

They have found a bloodstain on his clothes but wasn't he already interviewed and allowed to go and the stain wasn't seen then ?

I'm not saying he's innocent but the BIB get everything arse for elbow and it raises doubt especially when told from the very top to get it solved ' yesterday '.

Not just the bib but the media also publishing damaging un confirmed information

[Triplebank999]

Apparently in the Thai language news the blood stained clothes were hidden in his luggage, also the guy had been raped too plus the girl had blonde hair in her hands, it's going to get interesting now for sure

So when initially interviewed his luggage wasn't searched and he's been carrying blood stained clothes around for a couple of days ?

If it is him he deserves to be caught.

Obviously.

[BigC]

I want to know where the garden hoe belong to

As the killer would have either had to have nicked it which meant someone has one missing or bought it

Now a tourist buying a garden hoe is a bit strange unless it was lying around and he picked it up

So the killer would have had to pass that spot which could help narrow down the leads specially if they know how long it was missing for

[tomyummer]

Good to hear the Burmese were cleared. For quick closure I hope the evidence ends with the backpacker. Less damage to Thailand's identity for visitors. At least every inch of a break that Thailand gets now is a good break.

How on earth can you say such a thing,,,Does it matter what country the culprit came from?????? This is far more serious than a football match, Everyone here seems to treat is so.

I also live in Thailand,it would never enter my mind to quote such crap.

Yawn. Get off the crapper and take a chill pill.

It does matter where the killer is from. It makes a precedent of how this situation will change or effect the environment of the island and nation thereon after this heinous crime.

I only made the statement because in Thailand when there is a crime there is always a jump to conclusions whether it's by the authorities or the general public. And it always seems to be the bottom of the totem poll imported laborers taking the immediate blame.

So if it can be proven to be an isolated incident where visitors preyed on visitors versus the local or hired workers, it would prevent that inkling of passing off Thailand as the dangerous tourist destination.

[Bender]

post edited to satisfy the rule...

actually the way the thai police investigate this crime remember me all the other crimes in thailand....

When 2 russians woman were shot dead in the jomtiem beach, the first word from the thai police, its they were certainly 2 prostitute murdered by the

russian mafia. When in fact the culprit was a thai guy...

When a young swedish girl got her throat slashed in a secluded beach in phuket by a thai taxi driver. The police explained he did this crime because she was topless...

When they found a british couple, both around 70 years old, dead in a chiang mai hotel, the thai police concluded they died both from heart attack at the same time... because they were having sex.

When a french guy was shot dead over a motorbike sale. The culprit a "thai look-krueng" raised in thailand, but for the thai media the culprit was not thai, he was a full farang.

etc etc etc...

now you can make your own idea how efficient are thai police.... dont expect a word of truth!

[Dogmatix]

The Mail has the most complete account, although some of the details are a little suspect. They seem to be the only source that the reported that the Burmese questioned and later released by the police were found to have a hand gun with them in addition to the two shattered iPhones and bloodstained jeans. They even published an unattributed photograph of the gun, a 9mm packed neatly in its original box with the magazine separate, which seems a strange way to hide an illegal hand gun. The picture also suggests they found an RG 34 grenade that was not even mentioned by the Mail. The Mail also included pictures of the blood stained hoe from Khao Sod.

The Coconuts story also seems to include some loose ends. Other reports suggest that the new suspect is Christopher Ware but Coconuts seems under the impression that there is another farang suspect, a man identified by Police Col. Prachum Ruangthong, commander of Pha Ngan police department, as David Miller's homosexual travel companion, who he speculated killed Miller in a fit of jealousy. Mr Prachum's analysis seems directly at odds with the Mail's accounts of Miller's close relationship with his girlfriend, Jessy Howorth, but, given the Mail's current status in Thailand, it is possible that Prachum didn't have access to its report. It also seems odd that a killer would take off his blood stained trousers and carefully pack them in the victim's suitcase before making his escape, rather than disposing of them somewhere they would be less likely to be found.

Given the shoddy work they usually do on forensics, allowing all and sundry to mess with the crime scene, vital evidence is quite likely to be already compromised by now. Despite all the technological advances Thai police methodology still relies overwhelmingly on confessions, many of which are later withdrawn in court.

Sadly, it seems as if the police are still very far away from solving the tragic murders of these two young people who had their whole lives ahead of them.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Dogmatix

[BigC]

Let's hope there's more genuine evidence than ' seen strolling near the scene ', I presume if it's him he was strolling before and not after the crime.

They have found a bloodstain on his clothes but wasn't he already interviewed and allowed to go and the stain wasn't seen then ?

I'm not saying he's innocent but the BIB get everything arse for elbow and it raises doubt especially when told from the very top to get it solved ' yesterday '.

Also he might have thrown away the clothes but did not so a good job of it

Which they may have found later

Which would tie the story together that he was seen near by

[Aceicol]

I'm not really sure why people are getting het up about what nationality the murderer was. It's totally irrelevant. If he/she was British, Thai, Bumranese etc it doesn't matter one bit, this is a human tragedy and nothing to do with nationality. Every nation on the planet has people capable of ding evil things.

Beano - I hope you get some genuine answers soon, my heart goes out to you and you friends family.

[alanrchase]

Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000.

(aren't you alway the one insisting on comparing like with like, here we are comparing deaths of foreign visitors of 1 nationality)

360 British died in Thailand in the last 12 months. Up to you how you believe they died.

But anyway you look at it, you are 10x more likely to die visiting Thailand than you are visiting Spain.

(If you are British)

Thailand isn't remotely close to one of the world's highest per capita murder rate.

It is below average globally, and just slightly above the rate of the US. The murder rate has fallen substantially since your 2000 statistic too, there were only 3,307 murders in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

This could be right, when the number of accidental deaths, suicides, unexplained casualties and disappearings has not been growing. Is it? Can we assume the RTP is not at all 'connected' with TAT etc.?

Paranoia rules here.

[alanrchase]

The Mail has the most complete account, although some of the details are a little suspect. They seem to be the only source that the reported that the Burmese questioned and later released by the police were found to have a hand gun with them in addition to the two shattered iPhones and bloodstained jeans. They even published an unattributed photograph of the gun, a 9mm packed neatly in its original box with the magazine separate, which seems a strange way to hide an illegal hand gun. The picture also suggests they found an RG 34 grenade that was not even mentioned by the Mail. The Mail also included pictures of the blood stained hoe from Khao Sod.

The Coconuts story also seems to include some loose ends. Other reports suggest that the new suspect is Christopher Ware but Coconuts seems under the impression that there is another farang suspect, a man identified by Police Col. Prachum Ruangthong, commander of Pha Ngan police department, as David Miller's homosexual travel companion, who he speculated killed Miller in a fit of jealousy. Mr Prachum's analysis seems directly at odds with the Mail's accounts of Miller's close relationship with his girlfriend, Jessy Howorth, but, given the Mail's current status in Thailand, it is possible that Prachum didn't have access to its report. It also seems odd that a killer would take off his blood stained trousers and carefully pack them in the victim's suitcase before making his escape, rather than disposing of them somewhere they would be less likely to be found.

Given the shoddy work they usually do on forensics, allowing all and sundry to mess with the crime scene, vital evidence is quite likely to be already compromised by now. Despite all the technological advances Thai police methodology still relies overwhelmingly on confessions, many of which are later withdrawn in court.

Sadly, it seems as if the police are still very far away from solving the tragic murders of these two young people who had their whole lives ahead of them.

"The Mail" has the most complete account?

[mojorison]

Why should the police be responsible for the actions of adults? They are required when the adults throw tantrums. Unfortunately adult tantrums result in a bit more than tears.

.Let me spell it out for you. Westerners only behave in this manner in Thailand because the Thais do nothing to prevent it. In fact they encourage it. A case in point is Hadrin. There you will see people rooting at the steps of cactus bar. If you did this in Australia, you'd be arrested instantly... but not here. Because there is an aire of anything goes, anything does indeed generally go. This is the Thais fault for allowing it. I get a bit annoyed when I hear Thais being judgemental of the farang idiots at the FMP... if you don't like their behaviour, don't let them do it... the laws are in place to stop indecency, and public nudity,,, but no, it's all ok here. They can't do it at home, so if they are told not to do it here, they are sure to understand. BUT NO, they allow it , they encourage it, and then it makes the whole place slovenly, dangerous, bawdy and ugly

[chooka]

Apparently in the Thai language news the blood stained clothes were hidden in his luggage, also the guy had been raped too plus the girl had blonde hair in her hands, it's going to get interesting now for sure

The guy would have to be a total tool if he kept the blood stained clothing.

[green job]

I cant help thinking that it would require skill in using such a implement,to hit someone on the head with. I have read in many a book,that this was a favorite instrument used in the many murders,involving Asian people.

[alanrchase]

Why should the police be responsible for the actions of adults? They are required when the adults throw tantrums. Unfortunately adult tantrums result in a bit more than tears.

.Let me spell it out for you. Westerners only behave in this manner in Thailand because the Thais do nothing to prevent it. In fact they encourage it. A case in point is Hadrin. There you will see people rooting at the steps of cactus bar. If you did this in Australia, you'd be arrested instantly... but not here. Because there is an aire of anything goes, anything does indeed generally go. This is the Thais fault for allowing it. I get a bit annoyed when I hear Thais being judgemental of the farang idiots at the FMP... if you don't like their behaviour, don't let them do it... the laws are in place to stop indecency, and public nudity,,, but no, it's all ok here. They can't do it at home, so if they are told not to do it here, they are sure to understand. BUT NO, they allow it , they encourage it, and then it makes the whole place slovenly, dangerous, bawdy and ugly

Seriously? You must have a different travel agent than most.