British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[PaPiPuPePo]

There's very little being said baout Koh Tao, which, indeed, was a divers' paradise. A lot has changed in the last 10 years, more so in the last 5, and very little for the better. I won't start a description of all those changes here and now, but just focus on one, which could have some link with the murders: drugs. 'Before', most tourists went to Tao only for the day, or no longer than a few, nearly exclusively for diving, and most Farangs who were staying there were some way involved with diving. There was nearly only one 'drug' available: grass, all other, stronger drugs not going that well together with diving, maybe a little cocaine brought by visitors. Nowadays, it seems Tao has rather become a 'drugs paradise' with ALL drugs easily available, up to the strongest and most dangerous ones, including the newest stuff. And when I hear youths speak about going to Tao, there are still some speaking only about diving, but not the majority, diving is still on the 'to do list' for most, but many, more and more I'd say, go there for drugs related 'partying' and stay " 3 - 4days or a week there. Some new dealers might have come up, but for sure many important ones from Pha Ngan, and Samui, seem to have been dividing the new cake Tao among themselves, and the police, well, they do the same as on Samui and on Pha Ngan, the small force making them even 'rely' on the known maffias to 'regulate' the market...

Interesting comments. I've been visiting LOS a long time but Koh Tao only the last two years. The vibe there is definitely unique--it's a beautiful little island so I think the "baseline vibe" is quite pleasant, but there's a combination of the over-built dive scene, which brings some machismo and no small amount of money into the mix, and the young partiers who have a semi-visible school of parasitic and often rather sleazy Thai folks following them around.

The taxi guys are very mafia, just in two one-month diving visits I've had taxi guys talk and act threateningly to me because I didn't move quickly enough on my motorbike out of their way. Worst Ive seen in Thailand though I'm sure Phuket's and Samui's are worse (avoiding returns to those islands). I also had a couple of other experiences with locals there--and I'm a middle-aged guy with many years in Asia who goes out of his way to be polite, speak my crappy Thai whenever possible, aways greet and say thanks (in Thai) etc--that made me believe the dive instructor living there who said "they hate us." That's not Thai bashing, in fact the Thais have ample reason to dislike foreign tourists IMO. Just adding to bangrak's observation that there's definitely tension and high energy, some of it quite negative, on Koh Tao.

Prayuth's comment about bikinis is stupid and smart at the same time. The stupid's been well-addressed, so as to the smart: I've noticed a trend the last 3-5 years for falang chicks (who I can hear from their speech are Brits) to walk around with shorts cut so short their asses (or I guess <deleted>) are half hanging out. That might get you shouted at in some parts of the US, cat-calls and whistles elsewhere, but it's deeply offensive to Thais, and overall the cultural sensitivity level among especially the younger tourists hovers right around 0. So I can see a conservative general (whose views on this matter probably actually jive with 99% of Thai males) having this uppermost in mind.

It's obvious to everyone that going nude or topless on a Thai beach is a bad idea, so it seems reasonable to consider that being sensitive beyond that (which doesn't mean distributing burkas at BKK!) would be a good thing. To most Thais, standing in a "seven" or other store behind some young lass in a bikini or young guy in only board shorts is either (slightly) offensive or provocative, yet the vast majority of Euro-falang seem to think they're in Ibiza.

It's a trait common to a lot of areas of Asia to keep up appearances, so the hypocrisy of Thailand being conservative but having a huge sex industry isn't apparent to Thais like it is falangs. So when in Rome…..

Last, the police sta. in Koh Tao is only open for one hour several times a day with hour-long breaks in-between, and IIRC it's not even an official police station (or maybe that's only on Koh Phang ngan). And the spot where the murders occurred is indeed close to the station, at the bottom of the hill that it sits atop, though more than 50 meters, more like 150-200.

Anyway best to keep the speculation down, but this could easily have been committed by a local. I'm going back for more diving soon but will be extra careful walking back to the place I usually stay at after dark (even though it's lights out for this guy by 11PM every night lol).

[TPI]

I suppose that they couldn't check the "hoe" for fingerprints because every policeman and his dog has re-enacted their idea of the murder for the folks back home, using the murder impliment! They do it every time! They then lay it back down almost in the right position! I've watched them do it!

[namdocmai]

I can read the dailymail perfectly from out of Bangkok.

[jpeg]

Good to hear the Burmese were cleared. For quick closure I hope the evidence ends with the backpacker. Less damage to Thailand's identity for visitors. At least every inch of a break that Thailand gets now is a good break.

Kwaikrap

[watcharacters]

Sad to see so many posters here taking the opportunity to bash Thailand from any angle, the police, the news reports, the investigation, perhaps the most remarkable one was where a poster wished that the UK police had been asked to investigate, how arrogant is that!

And for the poster who asked the question, should we demand the same penalty for a farang murderer as a local one, no, the penalty should be increased because the assumed educational levels are higher in the UK than in Thailand, a Brit murderer really would have had every opportunity to learn that what he had doing was wrong.

You obviously have little experience with the BIB. Ever heard of Kirsty Jones? Or several other massively high profile cases where the BIB have been proven to be completely and utterly inept at solving this type of violent crime.

The one about the policeman who shot a toruist in the head, was then bailed, threatened all the witnesses while on bail, got away with it, and was then found guiilty of shooting his wife was also a good and very unfunny one.

They won't have any reasonable forensics or evidence gathering to a western standard. Guaranteed. And so far they are working on the, "she had a lot of boyfriends and were out late so were asking for it" line.

Yes, UK police and forensic work is very advanced, the Thai equivalent is less so. But life is a series of trade offs, if people want to live in a society where those things are important, they shouldn't live or visit here. Suggesting that the UK police should be called in to investigate a crime in Thailand shows a deep lack of understanding of Thai/Asian culture, if you are suggesting such a move would be optimal I might be able to agree, if you seriously think it would be a viable and practical option, I cannot.

.

I doubt it'd be the first time where one country asked another for assistance. NO big deal really.

[Chicog]

The incompetence continues. Having told the press they would have the results of Ware's DNS tests this evening, accompanied by a press conference, they've cancelled both.

They look sooooooooooooooo stupid.

[jpeg]

There's very little being said baout Koh Tao, which, indeed, was a divers' paradise. A lot has changed in the last 10 years, more so in the last 5, and very little for the better. I won't start a description of all those changes here and now, but just focus on one, which could have some link with the murders: drugs. 'Before', most tourists went to Tao only for the day, or no longer than a few, nearly exclusively for diving, and most Farangs who were staying there were some way involved with diving. There was nearly only one 'drug' available: grass, all other, stronger drugs not going that well together with diving, maybe a little cocaine brought by visitors. Nowadays, it seems Tao has rather become a 'drugs paradise' with ALL drugs easily available, up to the strongest and most dangerous ones, including the newest stuff. And when I hear youths speak about going to Tao, there are still some speaking only about diving, but not the majority, diving is still on the 'to do list' for most, but many, more and more I'd say, go there for drugs related 'partying' and stay " 3 - 4days or a week there. Some new dealers might have come up, but for sure many important ones from Pha Ngan, and Samui, seem to have been dividing the new cake Tao among themselves, and the police, well, they do the same as on Samui and on Pha Ngan, the small force making them even 'rely' on the known maffias to 'regulate' the market...

Interesting comments. I've been visiting LOS a long time but Koh Tao only the last two years. The vibe there is definitely unique--it's a beautiful little island so I think the "baseline vibe" is quite pleasant, but there's a combination of the over-built dive scene, which brings some machismo and no small amount of money into the mix, and the young partiers who have a semi-visible school of parasitic and often rather sleazy Thai folks following them around.

The taxi guys are very mafia, just in two one-month diving visits I've had taxi guys talk and act threateningly to me because I didn't move quickly enough on my motorbike out of their way. Worst Ive seen in Thailand though I'm sure Phuket's and Samui's are worse (avoiding returns to those islands). I also had a couple of other experiences with locals there--and I'm a middle-aged guy with many years in Asia who goes out of his way to be polite, speak my crappy Thai whenever possible, aways greet and say thanks (in Thai) etc--that made me believe the dive instructor living there who said "they hate us." That's not Thai bashing, in fact the Thais have ample reason to dislike foreign tourists IMO. Just adding to bangrak's observation that there's definitely tension and high energy, some of it quite negative, on Koh Tao.

Prayuth's comment about bikinis is obtuse and perceptive at the same time. The obtuse's been well-addressed, so as to the other: I've noticed a trend the last 3-5 years for falang chicks (who I can hear from their speech are Brits) to walk around with shorts cut so short their asses (or I guess <deleted>) are half hanging out. That might get you shouted at in some parts of the US, cat-calls and whistles elsewhere, but it's deeply offensive to Thais, and overall the cultural sensitivity level among especially the younger tourists hovers right around 0. So I can see a conservative general (whose views on this matter probably actually jive with 99% of Thai males) having this uppermost in mind.

It's obvious to everyone that going nude or topless on a Thai beach is a bad idea, so it seems reasonable to consider that being sensitive beyond that (which doesn't mean distributing burkas at BKK!) would be a good thing. To most Thais, standing in a "seven" or other store behind some young lass in a bikini or young guy in only board shorts is either (slightly) offensive or provocative, yet the vast majority of Euro-falang seem to think they're in Ibiza.

It's a trait common to a lot of areas of Asia to keep up appearances, so the hypocrisy of Thailand being conservative but having a huge sex industry isn't apparent to Thais like it is falangs. So when in Rome…..

Last, the police sta. in Koh Tao is only open for one hour several times a day with hour-long breaks in-between, and IIRC it's not even an official police station (or maybe that's only on Koh Phang ngan). And the spot where the murders occurred is indeed close to the station, at the bottom of the hill that it sits atop, though more than 50 meters, more like 150-200.

Anyway best to keep the speculation down, but this could easily have been committed by a local. I'm going back for more diving soon but will be extra careful walking back to the place I usually stay at after dark (even though it's lights out for this guy by 11PM every night lol).

Dear God, I do wish some of the many verbose on here would learn to precis

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The taxi guys are very mafia, just in two one-month diving visits I've had taxi guys talk and act threateningly to me because I didn't move quickly enough on my motorbike out of their way. Worst Ive seen in Thailand though I'm sure Phuket's and Samui's are worse (avoiding returns to those islands). I also had a couple of other experiences with locals there--and I'm a middle-aged guy with many years in Asia who goes out of his way to be polite, speak my crappy Thai whenever possible, aways greet and say thanks (in Thai) etc--that made me believe the dive instructor living there who said "they hate us." That's not Thai bashing, in fact the Thais have ample reason to dislike foreign tourists IMO. Just adding to bangrak's observation that there's definitely tension and high energy, some of it quite negative, on Koh Tao.

Transport 'mafia' are out of control on all the islands, I've been to a really small island where they follow you from the dock and threaten native islanders (in this case my family) not to take you anywhere.

Prayuth's comment about bikinis is stupid and smart at the same time. The stupid's been well-addressed, so as to the smart: I've noticed a trend the last 3-5 years for falang chicks (who I can hear from their speech are Brits) to walk around with shorts cut so short their asses (or I guess <deleted>) are half hanging out. That might get you shouted at in some parts of the US, cat-calls and whistles elsewhere, but it's deeply offensive to Thais, and overall the cultural sensitivity level among especially the younger tourists hovers right around 0. So I can see a conservative general (whose views on this matter probably actually jive with 99% of Thai males) having this uppermost in mind.

Butt cheeks hanging out, not a problem, exposed shoulders or cleavage and nipple outlines very big problem.

As for beach activities,

my gf (font of all Thai knowledge) says, "very dangerous to have sex on the beach, Thai man see, Thai man want turn, girl not give Thai man turn, Thai man kill."

[gemguy]

It seems they may need the assistance of Chief inspector Morse of the British police, as usually the Thai police are pressured to find the culprit and make everything look good...... even if it is the wrong person...it looks good for the press.

[belg]

the best thing to do is to close this post and let TVF send you a real update when it arrives, in stead of all this speculation of armchair detectives and links to friendly copy paste advertisement articles

[tomyummer]

Good to hear the Burmese were cleared. For quick closure I hope the evidence ends with the backpacker. Less damage to Thailand's identity for visitors. At least every inch of a break that Thailand gets now is a good break.

Kwaikrap

Koaykrap?

[alanrchase]

The taxi guys are very mafia, just in two one-month diving visits I've had taxi guys talk and act threateningly to me because I didn't move quickly enough on my motorbike out of their way. Worst Ive seen in Thailand though I'm sure Phuket's and Samui's are worse (avoiding returns to those islands). I also had a couple of other experiences with locals there--and I'm a middle-aged guy with many years in Asia who goes out of his way to be polite, speak my crappy Thai whenever possible, aways greet and say thanks (in Thai) etc--that made me believe the dive instructor living there who said "they hate us." That's not Thai bashing, in fact the Thais have ample reason to dislike foreign tourists IMO. Just adding to bangrak's observation that there's definitely tension and high energy, some of it quite negative, on Koh Tao.

Transport 'mafia' are out of control on all the islands, I've been to a really small island where they follow you from the dock and threaten native islanders (in this case my family) not to take you anywhere.

Prayuth's comment about bikinis is stupid and smart at the same time. The stupid's been well-addressed, so as to the smart: I've noticed a trend the last 3-5 years for falang chicks (who I can hear from their speech are Brits) to walk around with shorts cut so short their asses (or I guess ) are half hanging out. That might get you shouted at in some parts of the US, cat-calls and whistles elsewhere, but it's deeply offensive to Thais, and overall the cultural sensitivity level among especially the younger tourists hovers right around 0. So I can see a conservative general (whose views on this matter probably actually jive with 99% of Thai males) having this uppermost in mind.

Butt cheeks hanging out, not a problem, exposed shoulders or cleavage and nipple outlines very big problem.

As for beach activities,

my gf (font of all Thai knowledge) says, "very dangerous to have sex on the beach, Thai man see, Thai man want turn, girl not give Thai man turn, Thai man kill."

Font of all knowledge in Thailand. Big wai to you.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[Briggsy]

The investigating police are desperately issuing ridiculous statements and announcing new "suspects" at a frenetic rate except any locals from Koh Tao. For me, that means they know the killer is a local but won't or can't arrest him or them.

[mataleo]

Two British brothers are being quizzed by detectives over the brutal murders.

It has now emerged that Chris Ware and his brother James, from Jersey, are being questioned by cops in Thailand.

The pair - who have not been arrested - have been asked to stay in the country as experts carry out DNA tests, Sky News reported.

[VINCENT2012]

Wednesday morning that doctors would conduct autopsy on the two Britons’ bodies today to compare with DNA samples collected from suspects.

do that first and then we will perhaps know someting

[jpeg]

...when I read the story about the "blood-stained hoe" I kept thinking that that would not be a weapon of choice for a Thai, Myanmar or otherwise Asian killer. They are usually not strong enough to handle such a weapon.

Are you insane Have you ever seen a Thai/Burman guy swing a hoe??? Even the women are stronger than any flacid farang here, particularly the one currently being fitted up! Dear God, some of you

[yougivemebaby]

What is taking so long with these DNA tests.?? They should only take 90 minutes!

[alanrchase]

The investigating police are desperately issuing ridiculous statements and announcing new "suspects" at a frenetic rate except any locals from Koh Tao. For me, that means they know the killer is a local but won't or can't arrest him or them.

The media craves information, anything will do. Media and facts are irrelevant. Story is first. Media has accused countless people of guilt in the past who were innocent. Reserve judgement till more is known. Give it a week or two and things may become clearer. Hate the must be a Thai posts on the information available. If it is ok.

[sitti]

Just skimmed the all pages quickly. Basically, some TV members here want Thai murderer in this case no matter what....

[transam]

Just skimmed the all pages quickly. Basically, some TV members here want Thai murderer in this case no matter what....

Give up skimming, eh..........

[SPB65]

Perhaps they've got the results but are still no closer to knowing who did this or at least the results didn't go to script. It's all looking very awkward for the BIB whichever way you slice it.

[2befrank]

I'm not really sure why people are getting het up about what nationality the murderer was. It's totally irrelevant. If he/she was British, Thai, Bumranese etc it doesn't matter one bit, this is a human tragedy and nothing to do with nationality. Every nation on the planet has people capable of ding evil things.

Beano - I hope you get some genuine answers soon, my heart goes out to you and you friends family.

On the contrary I think it is very relevant what nationality the murderer/s was/were.

If you bothered to read the thread it is explained everywhere.

As displayed countless times by history, whenever there is a murder or suspect death of a foreigner (tourist mostly) the Thai police have proved many (most) times that they will always make sure that a Thai national is NOT held responsible whether they did it or not.

The Thai government and TAT can in no way compromise the big money brought in by tourists... PROVEN..... and even if all the evidence points towards a Thai, it is simply ignored.

So why is matters what nationality the murder was is VERY significant to the victims and their families and most all to an innocent person possibly taking the rap for the sake of Thai tourism revenue.

Thai murderer?...... No justice.

Western murderer?..... Justice.

Migrant murderer?...... Justice.

Or are you now going to try to tell us that the police would NEVER do this sort of thing? and that everything in Thailand is both super efficient and 100% above board??

[alanrchase]

Just skimmed the all pages quickly. Basically, some TV members here want Thai murderer in this case no matter what....

Give up skimming, eh..........

Think he got it right. Skimming may work on TV.

[Briggsy]

The investigating police are desperately issuing ridiculous statements and announcing new "suspects" at a frenetic rate except any locals from Koh Tao. For me, that means they know the killer is a local but won't or can't arrest him or them.

The media craves information, anything will do. Media and facts are irrelevant. Story is first. Media has accused countless people of guilt in the past who were innocent. Reserve judgement till more is known. Give it a week or two and things may become clearer. Hate the must be a Thai posts on the information available. If it is ok.

I am not saying the killer is a Thai, I am saying the killer is a Koh Tao native or resident or inside the Koh Tao patronage system. If the killer were an Udon migrant labourer, the local cops would have zero empathy. The way the police are acting is a red flag. Diversionary tactics are in force.

[bristolgeoff]

will be interesting to see how it ends.he is still allowed to go after the police interview.but not leave thailand

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The investigating police are desperately issuing ridiculous statements and announcing new "suspects" at a frenetic rate except any locals from Koh Tao. For me, that means they know the killer is a local but won't or can't arrest him or them.

The media craves information, anything will do. Media and facts are irrelevant. Story is first. Media has accused countless people of guilt in the past who were innocent. Reserve judgement till more is known. Give it a week or two and things may become clearer. Hate the must be a Thai posts on the information available. If it is ok.

I am not saying the killer is a Thai, I am saying the killer is a Koh Tao native or resident or inside the Koh Tao patronage system. If the killer were an Udon migrant labourer, the local cops would have zero empathy. The way the police are acting is a red flag. Diversionary tactics are in force.

Murdered within 50m of the police station ........... has the policeman on duty at the time been questioned yet?

[2befrank]

What is taking so long with these DNA tests.?? They should only take 90 minutes!

90 minutes?

Are you getting confused with a blood match?

DNA profiling can take up to 2 weeks.

[blowin]

What I am really upset about apart from the crimes themselves, is how on earth did graphic pictures of the victims and the murder weapon get put up on the internet?

Is this from the police or passersby?

These photos were lifted from a police mans FB page. I have seen first hand what some one on Yaba can do and it was very similar to this. Please again be sensitive about family and friends following this tread. It is disgraceful some of the stuff I have read here and the stuff people are writing they should be ashamed of it. To Bean whose friend is helping with the police investigation try ignore some of the sick comments about him that I believe mods should have taken down but thats up to them. Ban me or censor me but I do believe in free speech but making up stories is different and casting slurs is bad and evil.

[connda]

Much better PR. All South East Asians are off the hook.