Four men sought for vicious Phuket attack on Chinese tourist

[brewsterbudgen]

Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, all have lovely beaches without the tarnished image of Thailand. If one doesn't require beaches you have Laos which is inhabited by truly charming people. I think with these choices being available foreigners will be avoiding Thailand in droves. And, why not? The media and parents, consulates, etc., by now have warned them of the dangers they face in taking the risk of visiting 'The Land of Smiles'. Taking into consideration the extent of tossed trash one encounters everywhere I see no reason why an intelligent traveler will choose Thailand any longer. With corruption being rampant throughout, what

chance does TOT, etc., have in convincing potential tourists they still should take the risk of a visit? I'm

imagining it is likely even some Thais are relocating. Less than severe punishment in many criminal cases, ----, sorry, I can't go on!

All the places on your list are worth visiting but can hardly be said to be crime free (The Philippines!!) or to offer the range of amenities and tourist infrastructure offered by Thailand. Places like Patong and Pattaya are best avoided, unless you're after a particular type of holiday, but Thailand's tourist locations are still difficult to beat for the average visitor. Sensible precautions should be taken anywhere.

[Smurkster]

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Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, all have lovely beaches without the tarnished image of Thailand. If one doesn't require beaches you have Laos which is inhabited by truly charming people. I think with these choices being available foreigners will be avoiding Thailand in droves. And, why not? The media and parents, consulates, etc., by now have warned them of the dangers they face in taking the risk of visiting 'The Land of Smiles'. Taking into consideration the extent of tossed trash one encounters everywhere I see no reason why an intelligent traveler will choose Thailand any longer. With corruption being rampant throughout, what
chance does TOT, etc., have in convincing potential tourists they still should take the risk of a visit? I'm
imagining it is likely even some Thais are relocating. Less than severe punishment in many criminal cases, ----, sorry, I can't go on!

so spot on, i read a post like this not to long ago, talking about how the opportunities to travel in asia are so much greater than they were 20 years ago with all these great countries opening up..couldn't agree more about Laos too, lovely country, oh and talk to some Lao people about what they think about Thailand, I won't get started on some of the conversations I have had with some....

some of the countries you mentioned with beaches much cleaner than LOS...Land of smiles, that one can only be used tongue in cheekily now

Edited September 26, 2014 by Smurkster

[Carrerakiss]

Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, all have lovely beaches without the tarnished image of Thailand. If one doesn't require beaches you have Laos which is inhabited by truly charming people. I think with these choices being available foreigners will be avoiding Thailand in droves. And, why not? The media and parents, consulates, etc., by now have warned them of the dangers they face in taking the risk of visiting 'The Land of Smiles'. Taking into consideration the extent of tossed trash one encounters everywhere I see no reason why an intelligent traveler will choose Thailand any longer. With corruption being rampant throughout, what

chance does TOT, etc., have in convincing potential tourists they still should take the risk of a visit? I'm

imagining it is likely even some Thais are relocating. Less than severe punishment in many criminal cases, ----, sorry, I can't go on!

I guess Thai wives may not want to relocate, an inhibiting factor for those that have them. I also disagree that Philippines is any safer, in fact I think it is downright more dangerous. And you don't mention Singapore? Much safer......but much more expensive. The infrastructure in some of the other countries you mention is also not up to even Thai standards.

So yes, perhaps some will relocate, but many will stay because the benefits of the other countries doesn't make it worth while. Some even still like Thailand you know.

Now, tourists, that's a whole different ball game. I really can't see any reason for someone to come to Thailand unless they want easy female company. Sad.

[jpeg]

Does anybody remember not so long ago a father beheaded his son. The son hate raped his own mother and beat up his father and I think he killed his sister.

When the father was asked why he did it he said, " I wanted to see what sort of brains a monster like my son could have."

If I were asked to sum the Thai people up in a nutshell I would say, " No fear of repercussion and no sense of morality."

Others of course would not agree with me.

I've long thought the Thais a tribe, playing at being a nation.

[NamKangMan]

is it me or in the last 5 to 8 years its got very bad or is it just my imagination running away with me dont think so more mugging rapeing drugs violence stabbing do i want to live there mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NO

It's only going to get worse on Phuket, as the easy farang money dries up, rapidly.

This money is not being replaced in the local economy by the new demographic of tourists coming here now.

[Smurkster]

I wonder if there is some way that some of us here could make a mass difference, like writing a sort of "letter to the editor" to various outlets that would attract readership of people who might be considering coming to Koh Tao or even Thailand on a whole...if a whole bunch of people coordinated this and wrote emails or even letters to the correct place (I don't know lonely planet website, some sort of travel magazine, conde nast(?) explaining the realities about Thailand with some focus on these recent murders and urging folks to stay away until the place is "cleaned up" then maybe we could make an impact in getting people to stop coming her and spending their money...I think it is worth a shot and if anyone else has any more ideas, please, it would be great to hear

[NamKangMan]

Does anybody remember not so long ago a father beheaded his son. The son hate raped his own mother and beat up his father and I think he killed his sister.

When the father was asked why he did it he said, " I wanted to see what sort of brains a monster like my son could have."

If I were asked to sum the Thai people up in a nutshell I would say, " No fear of repercussion and no sense of morality."

Others of course would not agree with me.

I've long thought the Thais a tribe, playing at being a nation.

Thai's are struggling with farang colonisation - they will eventually get used to it.

[spidermike007]

Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, all have lovely beaches without the tarnished image of Thailand. If one doesn't require beaches you have Laos which is inhabited by truly charming people. I think with these choices being available foreigners will be avoiding Thailand in droves. And, why not? The media and parents, consulates, etc., by now have warned them of the dangers they face in taking the risk of visiting 'The Land of Smiles'. Taking into consideration the extent of tossed trash one encounters everywhere I see no reason why an intelligent traveler will choose Thailand any longer. With corruption being rampant throughout, what

chance does TOT, etc., have in convincing potential tourists they still should take the risk of a visit? I'm

imagining it is likely even some Thais are relocating. Less than severe punishment in many criminal cases, ----, sorry, I can't go on!

All the places on your list are worth visiting but can hardly be said to be crime free (The Philippines!!) or to offer the range of amenities and tourist infrastructure offered by Thailand. Places like Patong and Pattaya are best avoided, unless you're after a particular type of holiday, but Thailand's tourist locations are still difficult to beat for the average visitor. Sensible precautions should be taken anywhere.

True that. Philippines is nice. People are great. Women are beautiful. But, the food sucks, and unless you have eyes in the back of your head, and serious martial arts skills, it is very easy to get yourself in trouble. A very violent culture. Vietnam is not a place I would want to live under any circumstances. Very heavy hearted people, with sour, dour, listless attitudes. Not fun at all to visit, much less live. Burma? Are you kidding? Want to be permanently subjected to the whims of one of the most corrupt dictators in recent history and his military apparatus? Than Shwe is a pig. And do not even being to try to convince me he is not still in absolute control. Reforms? You have got to be kidding, if you think I buy into that nonsense. Not familiar enough with Sri Lanka. Was there once a long time ago, and liked it. But, what is it like these days for living? No idea. Not familiar enough with Laos, but have a friend who lived there for a few years, and was not too impressed with the lifestyle. Although he really had an ax to grind with the NGO people. That leaves Malaysia. Nice people. But, kind of serious, and lacking the light heart of the Thai people. Nice place though. Beautiful country, great infrastructure, and seems like a good lifestyle. Especially if one is married, or with a significant other.

That brings us back to square one. I love it here. I have a very good life here. I love most Thai people, and the quality of life is excellent, by my standards. So, a little incident like this, or the nasty one in Koh Tao is not going to discourage me on any level.

[Trouble]

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Wonder how the Thai apologists will spin this one.

eh ? What is a 'thai apologist' ? Someone who doesn't feel the need to racially abuse them every day ?

Violence happens everywhere, all over the world - you would need to be certifiably insane to go out in some areas after dark in London or New York so whats your point ?

TV mods - the daily racist undertones are getting ridiculous - its about time you stepped up and followed your own rules !!!

Sorry it is not about racism, it is about cultural (If you can call it that) traits. I have a Thai friend here in the USA. I had a conversation with him just yesterday as we were driving some where. He said if he had never come to the USA he would not have known what we in the west call ethics. He grew up just assuming that it was okay for the police to extort money for petty violations or for trumped up charges. It was just the way things were. Paying for a government position, it is just the way things are done. Getting a 3 % commission for giving a government or company contract to a vendor, just the way things are done. The point is that Thais just grow up thinking this is the way business is done and life is lived. For most Thais, particularly those on the lower end of the social/educational spectrum, they know nothing else. Even the more educated and well off have grown up to think this is the way things are and having money gets them more status and privilege which they use to their advantage. This is the basic reason that corruption in Thailand is rampant. We all know there are honest, moral, and ethical Thais but all too many don't begin to have a clue to ethical, honest, and moral behavior. Why do you think there are jet scam problems? It is because they don't see the harm in what they are doing. The tourist has money and the Thai is entitled to a piece of it by hook or by crook. How can they teach ethics classes in schools when the school administration in many schools extorts money from parents in a public school. So let's not get on a racism kick here when we are talking about Thais. It is a nationality not a race. No one is calling the rest of Asia corrupt as well. Most Thais that I know that have any clue about ethics are those young people who have gone to school abroad where they see the difference in their "culture" and western culture. Getting stopped for a traffic violation in a western country and learning that police do not take bribes must be quite a culture shock.

[iReason]

is it me or in the last 5 to 8 years its got very bad or is it just my imagination running away with me dont think so more mugging rapeing drugs violence stabbing do i want to live there mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NO

It's only going to get worse on Phuket, as the easy farang money dries up, rapidly.

This money is not being replaced in the local economy by the new demographic of tourists coming here now.

I agree.

The savages are really going to come out wherever the easy mark falang money dries up.

And quite possibly, on the falang...

Edited September 26, 2014 by iReason

[ClutchClark]

Does anybody remember not so long ago a father beheaded his son. The son hate raped his own mother and beat up his father and I think he killed his sister.

When the father was asked why he did it he said, " I wanted to see what sort of brains a monster like my son could have."

If I were asked to sum the Thai people up in a nutshell I would say, " No fear of repercussion and no sense of morality."

Others of course would not agree with me.

I've long thought the Thais a tribe, playing at being a nation.

Actually a collection of 100's of tribes--local and regional.

Truly a tribal mindset. You see the same thing on Hawaii.

[brewsterbudgen]

Wonder how the Thai apologists will spin this one.

eh ? What is a 'thai apologist' ? Someone who doesn't feel the need to racially abuse them every day ?

Violence happens everywhere, all over the world - you would need to be certifiably insane to go out in some areas after dark in London or New York so whats your point ?

TV mods - the daily racist undertones are getting ridiculous - its about time you stepped up and followed your own rules !!!

Sorry it is not about racism, it is about cultural (If you can call it that) traits. I have a Thai friend here in the USA. I had a conversation with him just yesterday as we were driving some where. He said if he had never come to the USA he would not have known what we in the west call ethics. He grew up just assuming that it was okay for the police to extort money for petty violations or for trumped up charges. It was just the way things were. Paying for a government position, it is just the way things are done. Getting a 3 % commission for giving a government or company contract to a vendor, just the way things are done. The point is that Thais just grow up thinking this is the way business is done and life is lived. For most Thais, particularly those on the lower end of the social/educational spectrum, they know nothing else. Even the more educated and well off have grown up to think this is the way things are and having money gets them more status and privilege which they use to their advantage. This is the basic reason that corruption in Thailand is rampant. We all know there are honest, moral, and ethical Thais but all too many don't begin to have a clue to ethical, honest, and moral behavior. Why do you think there are jet scam problems? It is because they don't see the harm in what they are doing. The tourist has money and the Thai is entitled to a piece of it by hook or by crook. How can they teach ethics classes in schools when the school administration in many schools extorts money from parents in a public school. So let's not get on a racism kick here when we are talking about Thais. It is a nationality not a race. No one is calling the rest of Asia corrupt as well. Most Thais that I know that have any clue about ethics are those young people who have gone to school abroad where they see the difference in their "culture" and western culture. Getting stopped for a traffic violation in a western country and learning that police do not take bribes must be quite a culture shock.

Are you seriously suggesting that this is somehow unique to Thais?

[NamKangMan]

Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, all have lovely beaches without the tarnished image of Thailand. If one doesn't require beaches you have Laos which is inhabited by truly charming people. I think with these choices being available foreigners will be avoiding Thailand in droves. And, why not? The media and parents, consulates, etc., by now have warned them of the dangers they face in taking the risk of visiting 'The Land of Smiles'. Taking into consideration the extent of tossed trash one encounters everywhere I see no reason why an intelligent traveler will choose Thailand any longer. With corruption being rampant throughout, what

chance does TOT, etc., have in convincing potential tourists they still should take the risk of a visit? I'm

imagining it is likely even some Thais are relocating. Less than severe punishment in many criminal cases, ----, sorry, I can't go on!

All the places on your list are worth visiting but can hardly be said to be crime free (The Philippines!!) or to offer the range of amenities and tourist infrastructure offered by Thailand. Places like Patong and Pattaya are best avoided, unless you're after a particular type of holiday, but Thailand's tourist locations are still difficult to beat for the average visitor. Sensible precautions should be taken anywhere.

True that. Philippines is nice. People are great. Women are beautiful. But, the food sucks, and unless you have eyes in the back of your head, and serious martial arts skills, it is very easy to get yourself in trouble. A very violent culture. Vietnam is not a place I would want to live under any circumstances. Very heavy hearted people, with sour, dour, listless attitudes. Not fun at all to visit, much less live. Burma? Are you kidding? Want to be permanently subjected to the whims of one of the most corrupt dictators in recent history and his military apparatus? Than Shwe is a pig. And do not even being to try to convince me he is not still in absolute control. Reforms? You have got to be kidding, if you think I buy into that nonsense. Not familiar enough with Sri Lanka. Was there once a long time ago, and liked it. But, what is it like these days for living? No idea. Not familiar enough with Laos, but have a friend who lived there for a few years, and was not too impressed with the lifestyle. Although he really had an ax to grind with the NGO people. That leaves Malaysia. Nice people. But, kind of serious, and lacking the light heart of the Thai people. Nice place though. Beautiful country, great infrastructure, and seems like a good lifestyle. Especially if one is married, or with a significant other.

That brings us back to square one. I love it here. I have a very good life here. I love most Thai people, and the quality of life is excellent, by my standards. So, a little incident like this, or the nasty one in Koh Tao is not going to discourage me on any level.

"Vietnam is not a place I would want to live under any circumstances. Very heavy hearted people, with sour, dour, listless attitudes. Not fun at all to visit, much less live." - I could not disagree with you more, and totally not my experience when visa running there, and sometimes staying there for a few weeks on the visa run.

I have also traveled Vietnam from south to north, over a period of months.

In my opinion, it will be Vietnam that poses the biggest competition to Thailand, in the near future.

They are really gearing up for tourism.

One place that comes to mind is The Grand Ho Tram. The Chinese love it. Thousands of them betting away when I went to look at the place. Thailand hasn't even got casinos.

http://www.thegrandhotramstrip.com/

[xerostar]

Why don't the Thai Tourism Authority train official guides for visiting groups?

They could set up a special school, only accepting those with fluency in a foreign language and customs.

The school should be open to any nationality where they could get the knowledge of Thai culture, places etc.

It would be a great investment for Thailand. Looking after this valuable commodity would pay huge dividends.

Thai people would be eligible only if they had true bi-lingual skills. e.g. children of foreigners would be ideal.

This is the only way to ensure that tourists have a half - pleasant visit and propagate the tourist industry.

Leaving it to local thugs and idiots to "guide" unsuspecting tourists into gem shop scams and the like

must do enormous damage to Thailand's already soiled reputation.

I guess Western ideas like this would fall on deaf ears?

Hopefully the military will read this and do something constructive ..

but they do have a hell of a lot on their plate right now.

[ClutchClark]

eh ? What is a 'thai apologist' ? Someone who doesn't feel the need to racially abuse them every day ?

Violence happens everywhere, all over the world - you would need to be certifiably insane to go out in some areas after dark in London or New York so whats your point ?

TV mods - the daily racist undertones are getting ridiculous - its about time you stepped up and followed your own rules !!!

Sorry it is not about racism, it is about cultural (If you can call it that) traits. I have a Thai friend here in the USA. I had a conversation with him just yesterday as we were driving some where. He said if he had never come to the USA he would not have known what we in the west call ethics. He grew up just assuming that it was okay for the police to extort money for petty violations or for trumped up charges. It was just the way things were. Paying for a government position, it is just the way things are done. Getting a 3 % commission for giving a government or company contract to a vendor, just the way things are done. The point is that Thais just grow up thinking this is the way business is done and life is lived. For most Thais, particularly those on the lower end of the social/educational spectrum, they know nothing else. Even the more educated and well off have grown up to think this is the way things are and having money gets them more status and privilege which they use to their advantage. This is the basic reason that corruption in Thailand is rampant. We all know there are honest, moral, and ethical Thais but all too many don't begin to have a clue to ethical, honest, and moral behavior. Why do you think there are jet scam problems? It is because they don't see the harm in what they are doing. The tourist has money and the Thai is entitled to a piece of it by hook or by crook. How can they teach ethics classes in schools when the school administration in many schools extorts money from parents in a public school. So let's not get on a racism kick here when we are talking about Thais. It is a nationality not a race. No one is calling the rest of Asia corrupt as well. Most Thais that I know that have any clue about ethics are those young people who have gone to school abroad where they see the difference in their "culture" and western culture. Getting stopped for a traffic violation in a western country and learning that police do not take bribes must be quite a culture shock.

Are you seriously suggesting that this is somehow unique to Thais?

I read his post twice and I don't see anywhere that he stated it was unique to Thais, either seriously or in jest.

Maybe you should re-read it.

In all other regards you do appear to agree with him so perhaps you could focus on the positives in the futire and not be so negative.

Edited September 26, 2014 by ClutchClark

[brewsterbudgen]

eh ? What is a 'thai apologist' ? Someone who doesn't feel the need to racially abuse them every day ?

Violence happens everywhere, all over the world - you would need to be certifiably insane to go out in some areas after dark in London or New York so whats your point ?

TV mods - the daily racist undertones are getting ridiculous - its about time you stepped up and followed your own rules !!!

Sorry it is not about racism, it is about cultural (If you can call it that) traits. I have a Thai friend here in the USA. I had a conversation with him just yesterday as we were driving some where. He said if he had never come to the USA he would not have known what we in the west call ethics. He grew up just assuming that it was okay for the police to extort money for petty violations or for trumped up charges. It was just the way things were. Paying for a government position, it is just the way things are done. Getting a 3 % commission for giving a government or company contract to a vendor, just the way things are done. The point is that Thais just grow up thinking this is the way business is done and life is lived. For most Thais, particularly those on the lower end of the social/educational spectrum, they know nothing else. Even the more educated and well off have grown up to think this is the way things are and having money gets them more status and privilege which they use to their advantage. This is the basic reason that corruption in Thailand is rampant. We all know there are honest, moral, and ethical Thais but all too many don't begin to have a clue to ethical, honest, and moral behavior. Why do you think there are jet scam problems? It is because they don't see the harm in what they are doing. The tourist has money and the Thai is entitled to a piece of it by hook or by crook. How can they teach ethics classes in schools when the school administration in many schools extorts money from parents in a public school. So let's not get on a racism kick here when we are talking about Thais. It is a nationality not a race. No one is calling the rest of Asia corrupt as well. Most Thais that I know that have any clue about ethics are those young people who have gone to school abroad where they see the difference in their "culture" and western culture. Getting stopped for a traffic violation in a western country and learning that police do not take bribes must be quite a culture shock.

Are you seriously suggesting that this is somehow unique to Thais?

I read his post twice and I don't see anywhere that he stated it was unique to Thais, either seriously or in jest.

Maybe you should re-read it.

In all other regards you do appear to agree with him so perhaps you could focus on the positives in the futire and not be so negative.

Re-read it, and I believe my comment was valid, nor do I think I was being negative.

[pomchop]

So how long til the video goes viral in China? How many potential tourists will that cost Phuket over the coming year?

These thugs take money out of a lot of regular thai biz pockets with their actions.

I feel sorry for the tourists that get beaten. I feel sorry for the mom and pops who depend on Chinese tourists to help make a living.

The thugs may think they are only beating up a tourist but the reality is they are putting the screws to many thai people as well....of course the thugs don't care about anything but themselves or perhaps MR BIG who gives them their orders.

[iReason]

Why don't the Thai Tourism Authority train official guides for visiting groups?

They could set up a special school, only accepting those with fluency in a foreign language and customs.

The school should be open to any nationality where they could get the knowledge of Thai culture, places etc.

It would be a great investment for Thailand. Looking after this valuable commodity would pay huge dividends.

Thai people would be eligible only if they had true bi-lingual skills. e.g. children of foreigners would be ideal.

This is the only way to ensure that tourists have a half - pleasant visit and propagate the tourist industry.

Leaving it to local thugs and idiots to "guide" unsuspecting tourists into gem shop scams and the like

must do enormous damage to Thailand's already soiled reputation.

I guess Western ideas like this would fall on deaf ears?

Hopefully the military will read this and do something constructive ..

but they do have a hell of a lot on their plate right now.

"Leaving it to local thugs and idiots to "guide" unsuspecting tourists into gem shop scams and the like, must do enormous damage to Thailand's already soiled reputation."

[iReason]

Transfer excess BIB from Ko Tao. They have the experience to handle this type of situation.

Might as well--- Koh Tao is almost case closed anyway------------ my oh my,we are wrapping them up now------ bring it on you tourists

Yep. Thailand`s finest in RTP Region 8 maybe less busy on KT now foreign press mostly gone. Mind you they have been occupied with the burning issue of sunbeds in Phuket. Seem to have got their duck-chairs in a row on that one. No social media to `confuse` the investigators maybe?

Post regime change, changes were made to the RTP command structure (source link below). A new Police Commissioner General was appointed on Aug 20th.

"As a Prime Minister,..GP......is also the supreme commander, ......, ,of the Police Department."

"Police reform will not be possible. Honest and decent people will no longer be able to depend upon the Police."

Quotes are from Pol Gen Vasit Dejkunchorn who is very much the opposite of a red! Hope the link below works, not v good at that stuff. If not, just go to www.thaitribune.com/en and look for "The Merit System and the Appointment of Government Officer"

http://thaitribune.org/en/hot-issue/5886

And:

"Their other choice is to seek favoritism from influential person for short cut to faster career advancements."

[jaywalker]

Back in Roman times if a soldier stepped out of line every 10th man in his unit would get whipped almost to death. Because of this a Roman soldier never turned his back on the enemy, doing so would be certain death from his own men. I know this is extreme but it has always been my belief that the only real solution to most of today's problems is by making the offending criminals immediate circle equally responsible for their actions. I believe in punishing parents for the actions of their offspring. I also believe that the tour operator these men worked for should get a 6 month closure ban. You piss the people off around them and the wrath will surely follow. I do not believe in state sponsored justice worldwide anymore, it does not work. I remember the whole class getting kept behind after school because of one disruptive pupil during a lesson. He never disrupted the class again after this and it was not the teachers who saw to that.

Yeah that was called decimation. If I recall correctly, the term decimal (meaning 1/10th of anything) was derived from that Roman procedure.

It worked like a champ when I was in Army basic training. If one guy screwed up, our entire training platoon got punished.

The screw-up's swiftly got their act together when he had 30 angry guys around him at night.

Some folks, you just can't reach any other way.

[hawker9000]

_{" “in the hope of restoring the [island’s] tourism image. "}

[bunuel]

All too true. I experienced this myself two years ago when a Belgian friend of a certain age came to visit

me in Jomtien. She told me that seeing Angkor Wat was high on her bucket list, so we arranged for a

fairly expensive 5 day tour with what seemed like a " reputable " Thai tour operator on Beach Road in Jomtien. Total cost was more than 15,000 baht - all -inclusive.

Trouble began immediately with the first driver, who couldn't " find " our house for the 7 am pick-up.

My Thaj wife gave him directions several times, and he finally showed up. I decided it was time to

lay down some ground rules, so I made clear to the driver that his passenger was a very dear family member , and that I wanted him to take very good care of her. My Tony Soprano imitation had the desired effect,

and there were no problems en route to Cambodia.

Once she was in Cambodia, the Cambodians took over, and they seem to take their tourists far more seriously than LOS. Personally, I see Cambodia as a failed state, and have no interest in even visiting,

but my friend gave them surprisingly good reviews.

The trip back to Jomtien was another story. As soon as she crossed the Thai border, she got a Thai driver who was rude, and threatening. He even wanted to drop her off in the middle of the night on Soi Watboon

rather than take her the additional hundred or so meters to our house! After a long exchange with my wife on the phone, angry words and threats were exchanged - and finally the SOB brought her to our house.

Bottom line is that paying clients should not have to resort to threats and intimidations to get drivers to do their jobs. What would have happened to my friend had she been on her own? She is a nice lady who has worked with elections in many Third World countries, and was a paying customer. She deserved far better treatment - and I was surprised to learn that her treatment in Cambodia was better than LOS.

uote name="ChiangMaiThai" post="8441755" timestamp="1411720257"]

Welcome to the land of warm smiles and gentle hospitality. Yeah, I've been here too long and have become cynical, but for good reason - in my mind anyway.

Yes, I know there is violence everywhere. But here's the difference. There is a facade of genuine friendliness in Thailand that the TAT and associated industries exploit to no end. I'm not saying that there aren't sincere, happy, friendly Thais. That's what brought me here in the first place and keeps me here.

What I am saying that there is a huge undercurrent of self entitled, violent, emotionally unstable individuals, especially amongst the males and especially in the tourist spots of Phuket, Samui, Phagnan, Koh Tao, and Pattaya that represent the very real and very ugly side of Thailand. They will not hesitate to extort, frame, threaten, attack, and more based on the slightest provocation. And they'll be smiling all the while.

[bunuel]

Great idea! I am frankly astonished that such a school does not already exist. Such schools do exist in countries like Egyot, Turkey , Peru and South Africa, and they could be used as models. Guides must go

through a rigorous curriculum which teaches them about their own culture, as well as the culture and

mores of the tourist group they are going to specialize in. ( ie German, Japanese, etc)

After a few years, graduates become the ONLY LICENSED GUIDES, which provides economic incentive for taking the training. Being a guide without this license is ILLEGAL. Have visited all of the countries I memtioned, and all of the guides were excellent.

If NCPO really wants to reform the Thai tourism industry, they should order the creation of such a Guide School immediately - as the military dictators did in Turkey and Egypt.

Then they need to create a Police Academy to protect the poor tourists!

Why don't the Thai Tourism Authority train official guides for visiting groups?

They could set up a special school, only accepting those with fluency in a foreign language and customs.

The school should be open to any nationality where they could get the knowledge of Thai culture, places etc.

It would be a great investment for Thailand. Looking after this valuable commodity would pay huge dividends.

Thai people would be eligible only if they had true bi-lingual skills. e.g. children of foreigners would be ideal.

This is the only way to ensure that tourists have a half - pleasant visit and propagate the tourist industry.

Leaving it to local thugs and idiots to "guide" unsuspecting tourists into gem shop scams and the like

must do enormous damage to Thailand's already soiled reputation.

I guess Western ideas like this would fall on deaf ears?

Hopefully the military will read this and do something constructive ..

but they do have a hell of a lot on their plate right now.

"Leaving it to local thugs and idiots to "guide" unsuspecting tourists into gem shop scams and the like, must do enormous damage to Thailand's already soiled reputation."

[Yahooka]

Hope the Chinese government strongly protest and demands for proper action against those thugs and I hope an example is set as for punishment- given to such criminals.

Panda why the police not releasing the footage of the video clip ? Saving a face? What if was the other way round ? Of it would be the Headline of every news room and electronic media.

Really ?? If the Chinese goverment should take diplomatic actions every time one of their citizens abroad comes in harms way they would be very,very busy.

Neither will this case make headline news in China,same as 99% of other cases of violence and accidents involving foreigners never makes it in the news anywhere else in the world either...................and the tourists will continue to come here to LOFS in the future.

[GlaswegianTam]

Thai ferocity is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Prejudice of any kind, implies that you are identified within the thinking mind. It means you don't see the other human being anymore, but only your own concept of that human being. Noticeably, tending to domineer people, (usually Farangs on their own) them in large viciously armed groups, goes to show cowardice is much favoured before pride, in any supposed combat meant to disfigure maim or cause death. To reduce someone’s vigilance of another human being to a mere concept is already a form of violence.

More realistic me thinks this picture ........

Edited September 26, 2014 by GlaswegianTam

[kerrysum]

Welcome to the land of warm smiles and gentle hospitality. Yeah, I've been here too long and have become cynical, but for good reason - in my mind anyway.

Yes, I know there is violence everywhere. But here's the difference. There is a facade of genuine friendliness in Thailand that the TAT and associated industries exploit to no end. I'm not saying that there aren't sincere, happy, friendly Thais. That's what brought me here in the first place and keeps me here.

What I am saying that there is a huge undercurrent of self entitled, violent, emotionally unstable individuals, especially amongst the males and especially in the tourist spots of Phuket, Samui, Phagnan, Koh Tao, and Pattaya that represent the very real and very ugly side of Thailand. They will not hesitate to extort, frame, threaten, attack, and more based on the slightest provocation. And they'll be smiling all the while.

Been that way for years, so it really doesn't surprise me.....

kilosierra

[PaPiPuPePo]

So, 8 pages of comments and no one has yet brought up what seem's like a major point (correct me if I'm wrong I skimmed most pages): the reason these illegal tour guides exist is because the Thai ones are not acceptable for a (large?) number of Tourists; both Chinese language problems and lack of education re the history are factors. So this fellow is "Illegal" in the same sense that an English teacher on a tourist visa is "illegal." It appears he's providing a similar amount of expertise as a native English speaker who has actually studied his language and/or the pedagogy of teaching it.

So the approach of these Thai guides to the problem of offering an unacceptable level of tour-guiding to Chinese tourists, which gap is filled by some Chinese, is to go out and based on looks attack a Chinese guy with iron bars--who isn't even one of the "bad" guys! Except he's "illegal." Is every other occupation practiced by foreign (semi-) experts at risk of similar responses to the competition and….they offer?

[khunjamesjohnson]

The Chines prefer a Chinese guide and not a scamming Thai.

[duanebigsby]

Wonder how the Thai apologists will spin this one.

eh ? What is a 'thai apologist' ? Someone who doesn't feel the need to racially abuse them every day ?

Violence happens everywhere, all over the world - you would need to be certifiably insane to go out in some areas after dark in London or New York so whats your point ?

TV mods - the daily racist undertones are getting ridiculous - its about time you stepped up and followed your own rules !!!

Although I whole-heatedly agree the racist undertones have really surfaced since the KT beach killings, I think it is a very naive and over-simplification to suggest this violence happens everywhere. Please do show me the headlines of this random violence of 4 on 1 against a tourist in other nations' headlines. (Not the Thai newspaper that cant be named).

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/06/spanish-tourists-acapulco-raped-gunpoint

[spidermike007]

Does anybody remember not so long ago a father beheaded his son. The son hate raped his own mother and beat up his father and I think he killed his sister.

When the father was asked why he did it he said, " I wanted to see what sort of brains a monster like my son could have."

If I were asked to sum the Thai people up in a nutshell I would say, " No fear of repercussion and no sense of morality."

Others of course would not agree with me.

I've long thought the Thais a tribe, playing at being a nation.

Interesting point. A friend of mine said the best way to understand Thailand is to consider the fact that they are only one generation removed from a nearly complete tribal existence. I am sure the hi-so people would argue, but their opinion does not really count. Since when do we listen to the 1%? I for one, do not give a damn about their opinion.