Thai Police: Flaws in Koh Tao murder case now fixed

[metisdead]

Reminder:

Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

[catsanddogs]

The CCTV still of the couple holding hands which turned out not to be the victims (obviously):

1. Why is there no date on the still?

None of the images I have looked at on the web of this couple have a date on the still.

2. Have the police confirmed who these people are yet?

It looks like the man is in more of a rush than the girl to me.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/16/thailand-murders-hunt-for-migrant-worker-captured-on-cctv-shortly-before-killings-on-koh-tao-4870586/

Edited October 23, 2014 by catsanddogs

[transam]

"Fixed" being the operative word.......................

[balo]

Refused, hasn't taken one what's the difference. His lawyer has stated he is getting a hard time because people think he did it. Read his lawyers comments on that. Welllll if that's the case and I believe what his lawyer is saying why doesn't he VOLUNTARILY take a DNA test. Would that not clear him 100%. Balo if you were getting accused of murder and a DNA test could clear you of the crime would you not take one. I certainly would and then I would commence legal action on those who wrongly accused me. Now if I was guilty and relying on photo shopped evidence to clear my name I would refuse till the day I died.

Are you aware his lawyer said he was at uni 13th-15th September. He also said he attended class and examinations on those dates and the uni has paperwork to show this. Well where is the paperwork Balo. Why is the university not confirming his alibi Balo. His lawyer has implicated the university yet they have said nothing. Please old wise one answer every question I have posed. All of TV wants to see you worm you way out of this one. I trust you understand the position Nomdods lawyer has now put the university in by using them as an alibi. Alibis need to be proven you know..

I agree with you that it would be normal to clear his name by voluntarily offer his Dna , but we don't know if he refused or not at a later stage.

Also this big university in Bangkok will not try to hide paperwork , or tamper with the cctv, why would they ? If the police ask for paperwork of course they want to cooperate with them.

If you think that everyone in Thailand will protect this boy you're so wrong.

[SteveFong]

The CCTV still of the couple holding hands which turned out not to be the victims (obviously):

1. Why is there no date on the still?

None of the images I have looked at on the web of this couple have a date on the still.

2. Have the police confirmed who these people are yet?

It looks like the man is in more of a rush than the girl to me.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/16/thailand-murders-hunt-for-migrant-worker-captured-on-cctv-shortly-before-killings-on-koh-tao-4870586/

Someone wanted the world to believe that these were the two

Looks like a Thai girl to me

[japsportscarmad]

I am afraid that this case has confirmed my worst fears , the only reform that will happen will be further entrenchment of patronage. The disenfranchised majority will continue to suffer and it will end in serious tears !

Les majesty? I best report it looks like rebel communist talk to me end in serious tears sounds like a threat, how long you got left on your visa?

[Digitalnomade]

[Lozza]

The CCTV still of the couple holding hands which turned out not to be the victims (obviously):

1. Why is there no date on the still?

None of the images I have looked at on the web of this couple have a date on the still.

2. Have the police confirmed who these people are yet?

It looks like the man is in more of a rush than the girl to me.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/16/thailand-murders-hunt-for-migrant-worker-captured-on-cctv-shortly-before-killings-on-koh-tao-4870586/

Someone wanted the world to believe that these were the two

Looks like a Thai girl to me

looks very much like a Thai. He may have been married,had a girlfriend.

If you go back the police had been saying they were looking for a female in relation to this.

Not mentioned again?

[ParadiseLost]

The CCTV still of the couple holding hands which turned out not to be the victims (obviously):

1. Why is there no date on the still?

None of the images I have looked at on the web of this couple have a date on the still.

2. Have the police confirmed who these people are yet?

It looks like the man is in more of a rush than the girl to me.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/16/thailand-murders-hunt-for-migrant-worker-captured-on-cctv-shortly-before-killings-on-koh-tao-4870586/

Someone wanted the world to believe that these were the two

Looks like a Thai girl to me

looks very much like a Thai. He may have been married,had a girlfriend.

If you go back the police had been saying they were looking for a female in relation to this.

Not mentioned again?

Unless I am very mistaken, these are the 'missing two minutes' pair - which certainly makes them vital witnesses to the case.

Obviously they bat for the wrong team so are of no interest to RTP.

[SLESQ]

I recently started to post on another thread when it was suggested that I reach out to you on this one. Forgive this long post that combines the most salient points from several on the other forum. I may need to use two or more posts to put all the data here.

I am a member of and consultant to the Defense Team that represents the two falsely accused lads. On behalf of the two defendants, lead trial counsel, Nakhon Chomphuchat, and human rights activist, Andy Hall, I ask that each person on this forum, and particularly every British and Thai subject, help us to defend these innocent lads.

Zaw Lin Oo and Wai Phyo, both 21 years young, happy, physically small (one only 144 cm or 4 '8" short; the other barely 152 cm or 60 inches high), hard-working poor but lyrical lads who toiled 16 hour-long shifts with one day off when they'd sit on the rocky-sandy beach of Kho Tao (a spit of an island an hour’s boat ride off shore Thailand) playing their guitar and drinking away their loneliness, far away from family who depend on them as their sole income earners.

We need support for collecting hard, real evidence, not, innuendo, speculation, or supposition.

Please also write to others about our need. Please send this note to all your correspondents, post it on all your social network sites, and help others to know when they dig into their wallets, again and again, and if we can attract a benefactor even one who sets up a matching funds grant, we may have a chance.

“The Myanmar government has agreed to provide security and expenses in Thailand for the main defence witnesses of the accused Myanmar migrant workers in the Koh Tao murder case, said the embassy investigation team.

“The Myanmar Embassy is attempting to find possible defence witnesses for the accused Myanmar migrant workers in Kao Tao murder case,….” http://www.elevenmyanmar.com/index.php…

The Myanmar government's offer to help is fantastic! But we need more.

“MWRN Koh Tao case accused fair trial defense fund” (online/bank) reaches 500,000 Baht (US$15,200). Thanks to all donors. The link has been removed due to TVF rules but you can find it with a Google search, where you can also find the latest information on MWRN spending and case assistance updates.

I am being very modest here when I write we need much more, because mounting a defense to any litigation is costly. The costs are the greatest as here where the penalty is the death of two innocent, hard-working lads. The money is not for lawyers as we are all donating our time and effort for free. We need at least $10 or $25 or $100 or greater donations from everyone to pay defense costs that for the most part are:

1. Air travel (many trips) from Bangkok to and from the island for the defense team (lead lawyer, human rights proponent, and Burmese assistants as interpreters) to attend court and meet with witnesses; coach fare @ THB 5,000 one way;

2. Modest lodging, meals and transport while on the island,
3. Costs for key fact witnesses to travel to Bangkok to meet with the defense team, and/or for the defense team to travel to them;
4. Expert witnesses must have their costs paid. Some may insist on a fee that if we don’t have we will lose their help.
5. We may find the court agrees with us and grants the defense the opportunity to put on a real defense and get testimony from witnesses who have fled. That will keep our trial cost needs going for another six (6) months or longer and greatly increase defense costs to send members of the team to other nations, such as Australia, France, Myanmar, Spain, and the UK.

6. We want to bring the boys' 3 surviving parents from Myanmar to the trial to give the lads the emotional support they are so much in need of. They are/were their parents’ sole source of income. Now they worry more about their parents than about themselves.

I've reviewed with Andy Hall who administers the defense fund, his accounting and am satisfied that he is careful and frugal, and using the fund only for the defense of these kids. The site offers donors an opportunity to also support Andy’s office, but you don’t need to if you don’t want to. I hope you will.

Please contact any member of the defense team; ask your good questions, and then please give generously.

Using my own 40+ years-long court trial experiences (more than 200 criminal trials as lead counsel and supervising counsel for more than 2,000 others), I have arrived at the unwaveringly firm opinion that they are INNOCENT of the rape and murder charges foisted upon them. [Continued below]

[SLESQ]

[This is the second part of my post, following post # 460. I write as a member of and consultant to the Defense Team that represents the two falsely accused lads, asking that you help us to defend these innocent young men. ]

But the powerful island leaders sense it to be in their own best interest to ignore actual justice in favor of "Thai-style" justice. Not even substantial justice. The lads will be killed, sacrificed, for the wholly self-serving interest of the elite and the powerful-ones, to support their own financial/political designs.

“Awe, … come on now ...” some of you are saying. “This just does not happen.”

Sadly it does and it is happening now.

I will not comment on specific points but to say (1) in general this open debate is welcome and refreshing, and (2) based on the investigations to date and continuing, we firmly believe in our client's innocence.

While some folks have speculated otherwise and we cannot know their motives for such negative speculation, we also support their right to comment. We feel neither need nor obligation to respond.

Met Police Report from Andy Hall

IMPORTANT DOCUMENT RELEASE

The Koh Tao murder case accused’s defence team has been working closely with REPRIEVE in the United Kingdom to explore the UK police role in the investigation of the Koh Tao murder case. I have now been given permission by REPRIEVE, REPRIEVE lawyers and Mr. Nakhon Chompuchat, head lawyer for the Koh Tao case defence team, to release the Metropolitan Police response document publicly.

In summary from this document:

- The UK Metropolitan police did not conduct any investigations into the Koh Tao murders in Thailand, had observer status only and did not provide any advice or assistance;

- The Metropolitan Police did not during its visit to Thailand take possession of any evidence, including physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements;

- The police are preparing a report but this is for internal use only and will not be completed until January 2015 - it will not be shared with the Thai authorities;

- No other information will be shared with the Thai authorities by the UK government or police without an assurance regarding the death penalty;

- The UK police do hold some limited information on the case but rely on an exemption under the Data Protection Act to refuse to provide this information (because it would prejudice a criminal prosecution).

This response leaves some major questions unanswered, including the issue of the validity of statements issued by the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office on behalf of the parents of the deceased.

For other questions and discussions on this issue/response, the lawyers’ team welcomes public debate that will hopefully result in release of this document in full.

And the ultimate release of these two innocent lads while they are alive and can return home.

Sincerely, thank you.

Edited December 23, 2014 by SLESQ

[greenchair]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

I recently started to post on another thread when it was suggested that I reach out to you on this one. Forgive this long post that combines the most salient points from several on the other forum. I may need to use two or more posts to put all the data here.

I am a member of and consultant to the Defense Team that represents the two falsely accused lads. On behalf of the two defendants, lead trial counsel, Nakhon Chomphuchat, and human rights activist, Andy Hall, I ask that each person on this forum, and particularly every British and Thai subject, help us to defend these innocent lads.

Zaw Lin Oo and Wai Phyo, both 21 years young, happy, physically small (one only 144 cm or 4 '8" short; the other barely 152 cm or 60 inches high), hard-working poor but lyrical lads who toiled 16 hour-long shifts with one day off when they'd sit on the rocky-sandy beach of Kho Tao (a spit of an island an hours boat ride off shore Thailand) playing their guitar and drinking away their loneliness, far away from family who depend on them as their sole income earners.

We need support for collecting hard, real evidence, not, innuendo, speculation, or supposition.

Please also write to others about our need. Please send this note to all your correspondents, post it on all your social network sites, and help others to know when they dig into their wallets, again and again, and if we can attract a benefactor even one who sets up a matching funds grant, we may have a chance.

The Myanmar government has agreed to provide security and expenses in Thailand for the main defence witnesses of the accused Myanmar migrant workers in the Koh Tao murder case, said the embassy investigation team.

The Myanmar Embassy is attempting to find possible defence witnesses for the accused Myanmar migrant workers in Kao Tao murder case,. http://www.elevenmyanmar.com/index.php

The Myanmar government's offer to help is fantastic! But we need more.

MWRN Koh Tao case accused fair trial defense fund (online/bank) reaches 500,000 Baht (US$15,200). Thanks to all donors. The link has been removed due to TVF rules but you can find it with a Google search, where you can also find the latest information on MWRN spending and case assistance updates.

I am being very modest here when I write we need much more, because mounting a defense to any litigation is costly. The costs are the greatest as here where the penalty is the death of two innocent, hard-working lads. The money is not for lawyers as we are all donating our time and effort for free. We need at least $10 or $25 or $100 or greater donations from everyone to pay defense costs that for the most part are:

1. Air travel (many trips) from Bangkok to and from the island for the defense team (lead lawyer, human rights proponent, and Burmese assistants as interpreters) to attend court and meet with witnesses; coach fare @ THB 5,000 one way;

2. Modest lodging, meals and transport while on the island,

3. Costs for key fact witnesses to travel to Bangkok to meet with the defense team, and/or for the defense team to travel to them;

4. Expert witnesses must have their costs paid. Some may insist on a fee that if we dont have we will lose their help.

5. We may find the court agrees with us and grants the defense the opportunity to put on a real defense and get testimony from witnesses who have fled. That will keep our trial cost needs going for another six (6) months or longer and greatly increase defense costs to send members of the team to other nations, such as Australia, France, Myanmar, Spain, and the UK.

6. We want to bring the boys' 3 surviving parents from Myanmar to the trial to give the lads the emotional support they are so much in need of. They are/were their parents sole source of income. Now they worry more about their parents than about themselves.

I've reviewed with Andy Hall who administers the defense fund, his accounting and am satisfied that he is careful and frugal, and using the fund only for the defense of these kids. The site offers donors an opportunity to also support Andys office, but you dont need to if you dont want to. I hope you will.

Please contact any member of the defense team; ask your good questions, and then please give generously.

Using my own 40+ years-long court trial experiences (more than 200 criminal trials as lead counsel and supervising counsel for more than 2,000 others), I have arrived at the unwaveringly firm opinion that they are INNOCENT of the rape and murder charges foisted upon them. [Continued below]

I really want to donate a small regular amount. but I don't have a credit card as many posters here don't. What can we do to send money.

[siampolee]

So according to the document released by the U.K. police they in fact had no input at all concerning this investigation.

So how can the statement supposedly made by the F.C.O. supposedly backed by the parents of the murdered victims concerning the myriad of matters in the investigation even be considered as useful comments either for the prosecution or defence teams?

Also of course those comments are worthless in their use in any posts concerning the matter.

Yet again we see the dark smog of duplicity and rampant dishonesty descending down onto this flawed investigation

However, below in the quote box to my mind there are a couple of very interesting comments, which is inclined to make me wonder if in fact some of the actual people who may be or were involved in these murders are in Thailand and are possibly are not Thai? Hence a prosecution could be pursued in the U.K.?

- No other information will be shared with the Thai authorities by the UK government or police without an assurance regarding the death penalty;

- The UK police do hold some limited information on the case but rely on an exemption under the Data Protection Act to refuse to provide this information (because it would prejudice a criminal prosecution).

[JLCrab]

To me, at least, the release of the statement from the Witheridge and Miller families via the FCO was in part due to comments like this from the above esteemed Counselor/Consultant to the Defense:

2 DEC 2014

At this point their grief is still great, but the parents of Hanna and David have a right, an obligation, to come forward, to come here to give testimony in support of the lads who innocence is well known but can't be proved UNLESS the Brit witnesses who palled around with Hanna and David come forward to tell what they know.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781591-koh-tao-thai-court-charges-pair-over-murders-of-british-backpackers/?view=findpost&p=8759505

The statement via the FCO served as notice that such support -- at least as of that moment -- would not be forthcoming.

[SLESQ]

An excellent case review of a non-death penalty criminal trial (for defamation) using the same defense team as being used for the lads here, that won a first round, is fully presented here. It is a worthwhile read to better understand the Thai court system.

Note carefully as you read the long document: it was not alone skilled defense counsel (Nakhon is also lead defense counsel for the two Kho Tao lads) but a very strong two-judge panel that saw its way to real justice and not just Thai-style justice.

ttp://www.ictur.org/pdf/Plunkett.pdf and http://www.ictur.org/Eng/Plunkett.html

[SLESQ]

you asked and I hope the TVF leaders allow this answer:

Name on the account: Mister Andrew Jonathan Hall
Account number: 333-234-504-3
Bank SWIFT code: SICOTHBK
Bank name: Siam Commercial Bank Public Company Limited
Bank address: Mahidol University Branch (25/25 Moo5, Buddhamonthon No 4 Road, Salaya, Buddhamonthon, Nakhon Pathom 73170, Thailand)

[fritzzz25]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

An excellent case review of a non-death penalty criminal trial (for defamation) using the same defense team as being used for the lads here, that won a first round, is fully presented here. It is a worthwhile read to better understand the Thai court system.

Note carefully as you read the long document: it was not alone skilled defense counsel (Nakhon is also lead defense counsel for the two Kho Tao lads) but a very strong two-judge panel that saw its way to real justice and not just Thai-style justice.

ttp://www.ictur.org/pdf/Plunkett.pdf and http://www.ictur.org/Eng/Plunkett.html

Very interesting to quote from this document -

"Principally, public prosecutors are presumed impartial throughout the criminal trial. The true aim of the prosecution should be to seek the truth rather than merely seek a conviction. Practically, this is highly possible in exercising a prosecution function stage."

[SLESQ]

BURMESE INNOCENT OF MURDERS OF BRITS ON KOH TAO - SAYS BURMESE GOVERNMENT TEAM

FINDINGS FLY IN THE FACE OF PRESS STATEMENTS BY PARENTS OF VICTIMS

http://www.andrew-dr...f-brits-on.html

The next court hearing will be tomorrow. We on the defense team and most of you on this forum have sensed the truth of this headline for some time. It's nice to read but we still need the lads to be set free.

That won't happen soon, but if we all pull together, the lads and we may have a chance.

Thank you for your continuing discussion to keep this sad topic alive, and your support for the costs of defense.

[greenchair]

Scotland Yard detectives are on the way to Thailand

the PM is asking Europe to strengthen the relationship to Thailand,

David Cameron had 20 questions for the PM,

where have you ever heard anything like this before?

If Thailand expect this to go away, then the real killers and rapists will have to face trial

not two kids who were sleeping when the act occured

Scary isn't it. Just go to sleep. wake up accused of murder because of a cigarette butt.

Could happen to any one of us.

[greenchair]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

I recently started to post on another thread when it was suggested that I reach out to you on this one. Forgive this long post that combines the most salient points from several on the other forum. I may need to use two or more posts to put all the data here.

I am a member of and consultant to the Defense Team that represents the two falsely accused lads. On behalf of the two defendants, lead trial counsel, Nakhon Chomphuchat, and human rights activist, Andy Hall, I ask that each person on this forum, and particularly every British and Thai subject, help us to defend these innocent lads.

Zaw Lin Oo and Wai Phyo, both 21 years young, happy, physically small (one only 144 cm or 4 '8" short; the other barely 152 cm or 60 inches high), hard-working poor but lyrical lads who toiled 16 hour-long shifts with one day off when they'd sit on the rocky-sandy beach of Kho Tao (a spit of an island an hours boat ride off shore Thailand) playing their guitar and drinking away their loneliness, far away from family who depend on them as their sole income earners.

We need support for collecting hard, real evidence, not, innuendo, speculation, or supposition.

Please also write to others about our need. Please send this note to all your correspondents, post it on all your social network sites, and help others to know when they dig into their wallets, again and again, and if we can attract a benefactor even one who sets up a matching funds grant, we may have a chance.

The Myanmar government has agreed to provide security and expenses in Thailand for the main defence witnesses of the accused Myanmar migrant workers in the Koh Tao murder case, said the embassy investigation team.

The Myanmar Embassy is attempting to find possible defence witnesses for the accused Myanmar migrant workers in Kao Tao murder case,. http://www.elevenmyanmar.com/index.php

The Myanmar government's offer to help is fantastic! But we need more.

MWRN Koh Tao case accused fair trial defense fund (online/bank) reaches 500,000 Baht (US$15,200). Thanks to all donors. The link has been removed due to TVF rules but you can find it with a Google search, where you can also find the latest information on MWRN spending and case assistance updates.

I am being very modest here when I write we need much more, because mounting a defense to any litigation is costly. The costs are the greatest as here where the penalty is the death of two innocent, hard-working lads. The money is not for lawyers as we are all donating our time and effort for free. We need at least $10 or $25 or $100 or greater donations from everyone to pay defense costs that for the most part are:

1. Air travel (many trips) from Bangkok to and from the island for the defense team (lead lawyer, human rights proponent, and Burmese assistants as interpreters) to attend court and meet with witnesses; coach fare @ THB 5,000 one way;

2. Modest lodging, meals and transport while on the island,

3. Costs for key fact witnesses to travel to Bangkok to meet with the defense team, and/or for the defense team to travel to them;

4. Expert witnesses must have their costs paid. Some may insist on a fee that if we dont have we will lose their help.

5. We may find the court agrees with us and grants the defense the opportunity to put on a real defense and get testimony from witnesses who have fled. That will keep our trial cost needs going for another six (6) months or longer and greatly increase defense costs to send members of the team to other nations, such as Australia, France, Myanmar, Spain, and the UK.

6. We want to bring the boys' 3 surviving parents from Myanmar to the trial to give the lads the emotional support they are so much in need of. They are/were their parents sole source of income. Now they worry more about their parents than about themselves.

I've reviewed with Andy Hall who administers the defense fund, his accounting and am satisfied that he is careful and frugal, and using the fund only for the defense of these kids. The site offers donors an opportunity to also support Andys office, but you dont need to if you dont want to. I hope you will.

Please contact any member of the defense team; ask your good questions, and then please give generously.

Using my own 40+ years-long court trial experiences (more than 200 criminal trials as lead counsel and supervising counsel for more than 2,000 others), I have arrived at the unwaveringly firm opinion that they are INNOCENT of the rape and murder charges foisted upon them. [Continued below]

I was really pleased to see this. Most of us want to help, but don't know how.

The defense should have enough money that if they need to go to France, go. If they need to go to England, go. I can spare a couple of thousand baht to help save two 21 year old boys. Or even just to find out the truth.

[SLESQ]

IMPORTANT! HOW DEFENSE TEAM IS FUNDED

While we are not allowed to post here seeking help, I have now been authorized to advise all on these TVF postings that

"Thanks. Whatever comes into my account is for the boys defense, I had no other income so it's clearly 100% going to the case, you can reassure them! Andy."

Andy is of course Andy Hall who has been supervising the fund and disbursing it's proceeds; the same fund that I am monitoring to assure all that he is doing a great job.

Please find the fund on line using a Google search for "you care Burmese defendants" and key words such as that.

Andy Hall is extensively found with a Google search as well. Contact him directly if any need further assurances.

I can be reached by IM if you have any direct pertinent questions for me.

[spidermike007]

In other news, 400 tons of water buffalo manure was trucked to the port at Laem Chabang last seen loaded onto barges destined for Koh Samui to be used to fill the holes in the murder case at Koh Tao of two British Tourists. Prosecutors are furiously using sand pails collected from nearby Koh Phangan beach to carry said manure to the court house where they are patching up the massive defects in the current pile of bovine excrement that they call a "police investigation"

Samui has more water buffalo manure than anyplace else on earth. The entire island is built on that foundation. The local mafias seem to prevent any progress from ever being made there. They refuse to put money back into the island. There is a giant sucking sound, that goes on 24 hours, of each day, as it should be called Hoover island. Let us suck every penny out of the island, and giveback as little as we have to. This mentality exists at the local level, and the state level. I do not think I have ever been anyplace, where the local people have LESS pride in their community, than in Samui. Improvement, progress, pride, moving forward in a positive manner, progressivism, and environmentally friendly practices are something one never sees on this "island without vision".

[greenchair]

In you could get these people in one room.

What would you ask? ?

Chris Ware ?

Emma ?

Tom ?

Sean ?

Nomsod ?

Nomsod brother ?

Nomsod father ?

Nomsod lawyer ?

Mon ?

Cop ?

Wei ?:

Zaw ?

Muang ?

Stingray Man ?

Pancake man ?

Foreigner with thai?

Foreigner male/female?