DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[BoristheBlade]

Justice won't be done, that is quite clear. Thailand has previous when it comes to justice for the "elite"

What I can't understand and what is totally unacceptable, is when a sovereign nation thinks it's acceptable to take innocent people from a "lesser" nation and set up a conviction.

Again Thailand has previous, but this case is unique, the first time I believe that Thai people have openly shown there contempt for the investigation.

That is very refreshing to see/

I have not seen any evidence to even suggest the Burmese were on the Beach at the time of the murders.

Having lived on Koh Samui for 3 years I find it incredible there were no witnesses that night, Beach Parties, people chilling out of the beach, workers from bars/restaurants relaxing after a hard night work ...oooppss. in the early hours is the norm.

If I am not mistaken Thai law states that the accused in a case which could result in the death penalty MUST have a lawyer present when interviewed by the police at all times.

If that is true, the case is already flawed before if has begun

I think this may be just one of many issues that the prosecution is worried about and why they are hesitant to proceed to indite them and require further "evidence' from the RTP.

As so called professional legal prosecutors would you want to take this flimsy case to court? Absolutely not and I'm pretty sure its heading that way.

Problem is that still leaves the murders out on the loose and no justice done. Not good enough. The repercussions of this will be felt severely and Koh Tao is going to hurt

Edited November 4, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[BoristheBlade]

CSI has brought up some great information and given people a platform to discuss the case, but lately CSI seems to be loosing focus and credibility.

I think they confessed. Not just once.

Luckily for the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers, what I think doesn't matter. I think it should go to trial. When that happens we will know what the actual evidence is.

Sorry for the screwed up quotes, definitely not my fault.

When you say that what you think doesn't matter you are absolutely right.

The question still is, who do you believe?

Are you going to carry on just faffing on about justice, evidence, integrity (not high on a list of RTP traits) or, dare we hope that you may actually say what you feel.

Truth or benefits, pick one.

If you fail to feel it, I have no more time for you.

He feels obligated to answer every other bloody post but this one!

True skeptics do not believe anyone until sufficient evidence has been presented. Agreed the RTP does have a bad reputation but on the other hand this CsiLA is a rather overrated "keyboard investigator". I've looked into some of his earlier researches -such as the MH370 case -and I'm not overly impressed. Contrary to most of you my gut feeling tells me that the Burmese guys - no matter how sweet and innocent they may appear - did do it and that for a change the RTP did get it right.

[Islandlife]

Becase he have nothing new to tell he went from 10 k likes to 400 k and now he just makes up story everyday to stay interestin .

Wannabe famous

I think this tells alot.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Hope they are not relying on the confession as that has been retracted.

Under claims of torture.

Not the only claim of such a nature made surrounding this case.

A judge will weigh the recantation against the confessions. Nobody has suggested that torture happened when the HRC commissioner spoke with them

It doesn't require physical torture to make a confession inadmissible or unreliable ... threats of death or physical harm are more than enough ... and according to the accused Burmese men, those threats were made before the meeting with the HRC commissioner occurred (made at the time of the interrogation) and if true they would have still felt at extreme risk, so the threats were still very relevant to any "confession" made at that time.

The issue is really whether the judge(s) believes these threats were made. If he does, then he probably will not/and should not admit any confessions into evidence. If he does not believe that death threats were made, then you are right, the judge will weigh the confessions against the recantations but only after the defense has a chance to cross-examine the HRC commissioner (I think the confession to the Rohingya interpreter is and should be doomed just because of the issues surrounding the interpreter without even getting to the issue of death threats, etc.).

If the confessions are admitted into evidence, the other thing the judge will hear evidence on in determining their credibility is how consistent the confessions are with the rest of the evidence ... i.e. whether things could have happened the way they were "confessed" to have happened.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[Nemesis7]

There are probably thousands of village headman in Thailand but why do I feel this village headman from ko tao is really somebody VIP.

Something very strange about this village headman and autorities seems to always protect him in every possible way. Wonder whats the reason behind ????

[SteveFong]

I wonder if the interpreter is even still around?

can one of the people who live there, confirm if his cart still even exists?

[Islandlife]

Have not seen him after,cart is there tho.

[jdinasia]

There are probably thousands of village headman in Thailand but why do I feel this village headman from ko tao is really somebody VIP.

Something very strange about this village headman and autorities seems to always protect him in every possible way. Wonder whats the reason behind ????

People close to the headman were implicated and then cleared. The implication shows that,contrary to your claim, he was not always protected

[HUH]

There are probably thousands of village headman in Thailand but why do I feel this village headman from ko tao is really somebody VIP.

Something very strange about this village headman and autorities seems to always protect him in every possible way. Wonder whats the reason behind ????

This was posted by heyexile and others before and should go some way to explain why he is 'protected'

FACTS Voraphan Tuvichien. Local politician, Mayor/Head Man of Koh Tao.

Important member Surat Thani section Democratic Party.

Top organiser of PDRC in Surat Thani

Venerable uncle Suthep. Leader of Democratic Party in Surat Thani province (includes Koh Tao).

Founder PDRC. By his own admission, worked with Prayut, since 2010, on plans for takeover.

Edited November 4, 2014 by HUH

[Bleacher Bum East]

Read the post again

"nobody should have..."

And no it is not criminal negligence.

Another interesting issue and challenge for the prosecution that could have been easily avoided:

I agree that allowing civilians onto a crime scene in that way is not criminal negligence, because criminal negligence is a legal term that does not apply here.

But there is another legal term that would directly apply . . .

In event, while many people in the public are understandably outraged that this would happen, the people that should be the most angry about it are the prosecutor, the high ranking police officers, and any non-police investigation person who was allowed onto the crime scene.

The prosecutor and high ranking officers should be outraged because by allowing civilians onto the crime scene, it has opened the door for the defense attorney to raise doubt about every single piece of evidence found at the scene.

This means that if and when they do bring the killers to court, they could potentially lose their conviction and let the killers go free because of this mistake.

And any civilian who was allowed onto the crime scene should be angry, because their entering the scene has probably subjected them to being called as a witness at trial, and possibly even more scrutiny than that.

This applies to any non-police investigation person that entered the crime scene after the murders, not any one particular individual.

[ding]

:cop: "Nothing to see here, move along"

[Neeranam]

There are probably thousands of village headman in Thailand but why do I feel this village headman from ko tao is really somebody VIP.

Something very strange about this village headman and autorities seems to always protect him in every possible way. Wonder whats the reason behind ????

This was posted by heyexile and others before and should go some way to explain why he is 'protected'

FACTS Voraphan Tuvichien. Local politician, Mayor/Head Man of Koh Tao.

Important member Surat Thani section Democratic Party.

Top organiser of PDRC in Surat Thani

Venerable uncle Suthep. Leader of Democratic Party in Surat Thani province (includes Koh Tao).

Founder PDRC. By his own admission, worked with Prayut, since 2010, on plans for takeover.

No chance of justice then.

[Neeranam]

There are probably thousands of village headman in Thailand but why do I feel this village headman from ko tao is really somebody VIP.

Something very strange about this village headman and autorities seems to always protect him in every possible way. Wonder whats the reason behind ????

This was posted by heyexile and others before and should go some way to explain why he is 'protected'

FACTS Voraphan Tuvichien. Local politician, Mayor/Head Man of Koh Tao.

Important member Surat Thani section Democratic Party.

Top organiser of PDRC in Surat Thani

Venerable uncle Suthep. Leader of Democratic Party in Surat Thani province (includes Koh Tao).

Founder PDRC. By his own admission, worked with Prayut, since 2010, on plans for takeover.

wow.

[BoristheBlade]

Since when does setting up a political movement prevent your family from justice?

This guy is untouchable for more reason that that.

Koh Tao and the other tourist islands bring in billions of baht in revenue, where does this money end up??? there will be the answer

[SteveFong]

does this mean, Suthep is an uncle of the headman?

by the way,

I saw "mayor" after headman, is that an elected role?

[HUH]

Since when does setting up a political movement prevent your family from justice?

This guy is untouchable for more reason that that.

Koh Tao and the other tourist islands bring in billions of baht in revenue, where does this money end up??? there will be the answer

I agree, this may protect him to a certain extent but there are other factors I am sure

[BoristheBlade]

I have been to the full moon party of Pangnan a few times, the amount of drugs going down on those nights was frightening, openly and freely available......

The police were not inconspicuous and MUST have been aware

May I also add, there were many , many Thai people participating in the taking and selling of drugs.

You can judge the rest

Edited November 4, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[MJP]

Blue,

The link is in this thread. They didn't rely on that interpreter contrary to your claims. It was the HRC.

Who was the interpreter during the HRC visit, pray tell?

And the rest of my points still stand.

Torture is not acceptable and confessions extracted using it are not trustworthy or usable.

PS

Oh dear, we are a funny man eh. My user name is is as on page use all of it, not a request anymore as you clearly don't respond to politeness.

I agree.

jdinasia, please use members complete user names.

Bluespunk is a well respected member of this forum and is at least owed that courtesy.

Will do. (or rather, will not shorten)

Strange that "sad man" and "troll" appear to be accepted.

Please use the report function, I don't have time to wade through all of this.

[BoristheBlade]

When the General took control of this country one of his first statements stated he wanted to end corruption.

What an opportunity albeit a tragic one Koh Tao presented him with, an opportunity to show his Nation he was a man of his word.

What an opportunity to issue two arrest warrants

1, Thaksin convicted and on the run

2 Red Bull Grandson To face charges of Manslaughter of an RTP Officer

Again an opportunity to show the Nation, that the ELITE would have to face the consequences of there actions.

General, it's not too late, show the THAI people yopu are true to your word...PLEASE

[SteveFong]

Does the PM have that authority to interefere with old cases?

I have seen several statements he has made that he spcifically does not want to interfere in the judicial system

praising the police and promising them a bonus, is into the same as cracking in to old cases

[BoristheBlade]

He personaly appointed the investigator to the Koh Tao case

so I think we can call that interfering

Does the PM have that authority to interefere with old cases?

I have seen several statements he has made that he spcifically does not want to interfere in the judicial system

praising the police and promising them a bonus, is into the same as cracking in to old cases

[Neeranam]

When the General took control of this country one of his first statements stated he wanted to end corruption.

What an opportunity albeit a tragic one Koh Tao presented him with, an opportunity to show his Nation he was a man of his word.

What an opportunity to issue two arrest warrants

1, Thaksin convicted and on the run

2 Red Bull Grandson To face charges of Manslaughter of an RTP Officer

Again an opportunity to show the Nation, that the ELITE would have to face the consequences of there actions.

General, it's not too late, show the THAI people yopu are true to your word...PLEASE

You forget the son of Chalerm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3572395.stm

There have already been tests to determine if the elite can be prosecuted or not and we all know the results. Why should this be any different?

Edited November 4, 2014 by Neeranam

[jdinasia]

Does the PM have that authority to interefere with old cases?

I have seen several statements he has made that he spcifically does not want to interfere in the judicial system

praising the police and promising them a bonus, is into the same as cracking in to old cases

Praising the police and rewarding them is in no way similar interfering in the Judiciary.

It is a way to deal with rifts between the military and the police

[jdinasia]

He personaly appointed the investigator to the Koh Tao case

so I think we can call that interfering

Does the PM have that authority to interefere with old cases?

I have seen several statements he has made that he spcifically does not want to interfere in the judicial system

praising the police and promising them a bonus, is into the same as cracking in to old cases

He did?

[BoristheBlade]

Totally agree

Yellow or red or whatever the color the rules remain the same

Poor..........your going down

Rich....Move along nothing to see

Maybe JD gave give us his words of wisdom on this subject

When the General took control of this country one of his first statements stated he wanted to end corruption.

What an opportunity albeit a tragic one Koh Tao presented him with, an opportunity to show his Nation he was a man of his word.

What an opportunity to issue two arrest warrants

1, Thaksin convicted and on the run

2 Red Bull Grandson To face charges of Manslaughter of an RTP Officer

Again an opportunity to show the Nation, that the ELITE would have to face the consequences of there actions.

General, it's not too late, show the THAI people yopu are true to your word...PLEASE

You forget the son of Chalerm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3572395.stm

There have already been tests to determine if the elite can be prosecuted or not and we all know the results. Why should this be any different?

Edited November 4, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[Neeranam]

The guy behind CSI has some balls.

[Bluespunk]

Blue,

The link is in this thread. They didn't rely on that interpreter contrary to your claims. It was the HRC.

Who was the interpreter during the HRC visit, pray tell?

And the rest of my points still stand.

Torture is not acceptable and confessions extracted using it are not trustworthy or usable.

PS

Oh dear, we are a funny man eh. My user name is is as on page use all of it, not a request anymore as you clearly don't respond to politeness.

I agree.

jdinasia, please use members complete user names.

Bluespunk is a well respected member of this forum and is at least owed that courtesy.

Will do. (or rather, will not shorten)

Strange that "sad man" and "troll" appear to be accepted.

Just can't help your self can you.

In your narrow little world any disagreement with you means a troll, any point you can't answer is ignored and you have to revert to insults.

Up until today I may have disagreed with your posts, but I didn't hold you with the contempt I now do.

When you have people not agreeing with your POV and asking questions you wish to ignore you revert to abuse.

If you feel I'm just playing the troll then you know what to do.

Just report any posts you feel are not a valid view.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Bluespunk

[jdinasia]

I was not referring to you.

I have not insulted you.

Edited November 4, 2014 by jdinasia

[Bleacher Bum East]

Does the PM have that authority to interefere with old cases?

I have seen several statements he has made that he spcifically does not want to interfere in the judicial system

praising the police and promising them a bonus, is into the same as cracking in to old cases

Praising the police and rewarding them is in no way similar interfering in the Judiciary.

It is a way to deal with rifts between the military and the police

I completely agree with what JD said in his second sentence, and think that is a large part of the internal dynamic at play in this case.

Whether self-appointed or elected, civilian or military, no leader can maintain control and govern without some level of internal political and external public support.

The PM may have taken power in a coup, but he still needs that support.

The PM has many different things to balance in achieving and maintaining his support—including internal power politics, vested interests, Thai public opinion, the economy including tourism and foreign investment, international opinion, etc. They all affect his ability to effectively achieve his agenda, so they all matter to him whether he admits so publicly or not.

The PM has said that one of his intentions is to “bring the people together” and stop the bickering within Thailand. Two of the groups that have previously had friction are the military and the police.

The PM needs the political and practical support of the police—at least some of them with influence; they are a key part of his government and he cannot govern and achieve his agenda without them.

The PM saw the Koh Tao investigation as an opportunity to embrace the police and gain their support, so he took a chance and endorsed the investigation and initial results.

If at the end of the day, the investigation makes the PM look good, then that will have positive ramifications for all the things he cares about, and his initial endorsement of the police and their investigation will have paid off.

But if at the end of the day the PM is made to look bad and there is negative effects on Thai public support, international support, the economy due to a drop in foreign investment and tourism, etc., then he absolutely will care about those negative effects, and there will be serious internal ramifications whether we ever see or hear about them or not.

It is too early to tell what will happen. If the end results are good, then the preliminary missteps may be forgotten. If they are not, then they will linger for quite a while.

Since the prosecutor hasn't even accepted a case yet, there is currently no way to know how this will all end.

[Neeranam]

I was not referring to you.

I have not insulted you.

Do you really believe that the Burmese 2 murdered the tourists?