Prosecutors set to arraign Myanmar men for Koh Tao killings

[angiolo]

The British police report will be completed in January. Will this be liberated to the British public ? I think our PM will keep it to himself,so not to offend Thailand.

[Sviss Geez]

Scapegoats

Now there's something that hasn't been suggested before.

[z42]

So where is the vaunted Scotland Yard comments??? Did they agree with the collection of evidence or not?? Why are you nay-sayers not up in arms over no comment from them? They collected the information according to the laws in Thailand......its not England, Australia, or America. The DNA will tell all. You conspiracy advocates need get a life and stop thinking everything is a government or police cover-up! STOP!!

Go give your head a shake son, the report by the UK cops will form part of the official UK inquest due sometime in early January. Hold your horses before unloading your next volley of nonsense

[boomerangutang]

Why is everyone hell bent on saying these 2 are innocent.

Some one correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a 3rd man, their friend who witnessed the attack?

You are wrong, and I'll correct you. The 3rd Burmese didn't witness the crime.

Here is why everyone is saying the 2 are probably innocent:

>>> forced confessions and forced to sign a paper they couldn't read.

>>> threats if they didn't sign.

>>> Completely stumped how to do the reenactment. They had to be physically handled and instructed for every physical movement.

>>> no physical evidence except perhaps DNA match, which very few people agree has credence.

>>> If B2 are found guilty, then that eliminates those who should be top suspects. You get one guess who I'm referring to.

>>> there are more reasons, but am tired to typing. Try to stay abreast of things.

So where is the vaunted Scotland Yard comments??? Did they agree with the collection of evidence or not?? Why are you nay-sayers not up in arms over no comment from them? They collected the information according to the laws in Thailand......its not England, Australia, or America. The DNA will tell all. You conspiracy advocates need get a life and stop thinking everything is a government or police cover-up! STOP!!

Scotland Yard wasn't allowed to collect evidence or interview people or pursue leads in Thailand. The two PM's agreed that SY could assist in the investigation when they met. However, a day later, the Thai PM altered the agreement to say the Brits were welcome as 'observers only.' Big difference, and it fits perfectly with everything else Thai officials have done since the 2nd lead cop was appointed: COVER-UP, shield the headman's people, and nail non-Thais.

[borowolf]

A few others already mentioned.... where is the UK police report?

I too do not believe these two Burmese boys are guilty. My hope was the UK police being invited here, would make that very clear. But they came and went. How much time does it take to write a report?

If they do not stop this what should we think of UK police? And what about the UK itself? Is politics perhaps more important then the lives of two boys?

Edit: it seems my question was answered by some while I was writing this. Amazingly fast.
I understead the report will be there early January. Very late. I hope not to late.

Edited December 2, 2014 by borowolf

[DaveE13]

So where is the vaunted Scotland Yard comments??? Did they agree with the collection of evidence or not?? Why are you nay-sayers not up in arms over no comment from them? They collected the information according to the laws in Thailand......its not England, Australia, or America. The DNA will tell all. You conspiracy advocates need get a life and stop thinking everything is a government or police cover-up! STOP!!

Go give your head a shake son, the report by the UK cops will form part of the official UK inquest due sometime in early January. Hold your horses before unloading your next volley of nonsense

I agree, wait and see what the Inquest comes out with in January.

[TechnikaIII]

An International court would throw the case out, simply because the prime "witness" is the Thai police force, which has totally discredited itself with the most heinous corruption demerits in Thai history, short of that which darkens Thaksin Shinawatra.

Dare one imagine the money, which has changed hands from day one in this tragic case.

Just look at those goons getting in on the photo opportunity. Pathetic.

[sweatalot]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

Why would evidence not be allowed to be made public? Lets hope when the trial starts that it is transparent and information is publicly shared so we can all see what a great job the RTP have done.

If not everything will be public at court then doubt and disbelief will grow exponentially - or better said: Everybody will know that it is not true.

The whole case will go into history forever as an evil crime committed by Thai police, Thai government, Thai mafia and by the real murderers

[Sviss Geez]

If these boys can get top class legal representation, on the level of OJ Simpson's Dream Team, and a trial by jury, this case will be shown to be a railroad job and an international travesty.

"...and a trial by jury..."

That is not the legal system that Thailand has.

[The stuttering parrot]

I find your negative comments a source of amusement.

The only things you can say is with a name like the stuttering parrot or no one takes notice.

That's it.!

Any person who dares says well I think their guilty is shot down for having a different view because you guys have wound each other up after months and months of unsubstantiated theories which have yet to be proved.

I particularly liked the one that said just look at them how could they be guilty.

Anyway the court date will be set the evidence will be presented and there will be a ruling one way or the other.

The prosecutors do not have to detail every part of their case to the public and they will reveal it a trial.

All this business about judges being bribed money passing hands is all hearsay and rumors and quite frankly should be deleted as you have no proof.

Anyway carry on and please try printing some actual facts .

Even the independent British observers have had more than enough time to give some indication of their findings but by their silence and time running out maybe they are satisfied with the RTP investigation .

Notice I said maybe and notice I have neither assumed they are guilty or not guilty.

If they are the max if not big compensation.

[rmacee]

Parading these 2 'lads' at the crime scene.. prior to full and final investigation was the ultimate show of disbelief ..and a desperate attempt to close the case out in front of the world press.

[sweatalot]

I still don't really understand why Thai authorities tell the public what they are going to do rather than just getting on with it? Seems to me a disproportionate amount of time is spent by an awful lot of police in front of cameras, rather than in back rooms meticulously acquiring and sorting through evidence.

There seems to be two sides to saving face, both driven by the sense of self worth; on the one hand any opportunity is taken to seek public glory / play the hero by parading in front of the media; on the other is the inability to accept then effectively deal with your mistakes.

Mate of mine is a detective in organised crime in the UK. Before that he did cold cases and solved many with new technology / DNA evidence. He's worked / helped bust some big cases. Never been in front of a camera or journalist in over 20 years but enormously satisfied with knowing he's done a great job...

The poorer the job they do the more they feel drawn to pretend and parade

[DaveE13]

I find your negative comments a source of amusement.

The only things you can say is with a name like the stuttering parrot or no one takes notice.

That's it.!

Any person who dares says well I think their guilty is shot down for having a different view because you guys have wound each other up after months and months of unsubstantiated theories which have yet to be proved.

I particularly liked the one that said just look at them how could they be guilty.

Anyway the court date will be set the evidence will be presented and there will be a ruling one way or the other.

The prosecutors do not have to detail every part of their case to the public and they will reveal it a trial.

All this business about judges being bribed money passing hands is all hearsay and rumors and quite frankly should be deleted as you have no proof.

Anyway carry on and please try printing some actual facts .

Even the independent British observers have had more than enough time to give some indication of their findings but by their silence and time running out maybe they are satisfied with the RTP investigation .

Notice I said maybe and notice I have neither assumed they are guilty or not guilty.

If they are the max if not big compensation.

I take your point SP but as has been said before the UK cops will not say anything and would wait until after the Inquest in January.

[partington]

Clearly what was stated all along, and is crucial to the case, is that the DNA found in the victim came from the two Burmese. If true, this would be convincing enough of their guilt to convince almost any sceptic. If you have provably raped someone minutes before their death, the likelihood that you are the murderer is overwhelming.

However the delays in bringing the prosecution, and the contradictory, ignorant and sometimes physically impossible claims made about DNA evidence by the RTP almost from day 1 suggests to me that they don't actually have DNA evidence that is adequate to prove identity beyond question, either through bad sampling or processing, or even direct tampering.

This will only come out if the DNA evidence is rigorously examined and questioned in court, using expert witnesses who understand the nature of DNA evidence, and what it can, or cannot, prove.

I fear that the defence team won't be expert enough to provide the necessary questioning of the DNA evidence, and this is what will doom the two Burmese.

If the DNA evidence is good, they are likely guilty.

[siampolee]

jdinasia post # 21

http://www.tncourts....ence-sufficient

No vested interest on my part, how about on yours?

Can you will you are you actually able to describe what the connection may be twixt that article, and the events described therein and myself or even the current case here in Thailand ?

I admire your attempt to cloud the issue, however upon reading the article it pertains to a legal system and investigation techniques in America as opposed to the ill legal system here in Thailand .

However as we all and you also of course know the Thai police farce force investigation system is indeed superior to all other systems due to the copious amount of ''palm oi lubricant'' used in investigations thus any comparison to any other system can be compared to fart as opposed to a typhoon.

Edited December 2, 2014 by siampolee

[freedom4life]

Any half-witted lawyer can have these charges thrown-out without much of an effort..joke; unless it will be a kangaroo court.

[Sviss Geez]

With a name like "stuttering parrot" of course your not going to come up with anything authentic or coherent....

...but "lil fluffy clouds" could?

Sviss I agree with a lot you write on here but why keep attacking other posters? It only starts everyone off on another round of pissing contests

...because so many posts are so ridiculously bizarre, if not blatantly untrue, that they invite some kind of retort. I'm not attacking anybody, just reading and airing my views.

[DaveE13]

With a name like "stuttering parrot" of course your not going to come up with anything authentic or coherent....

...but "lil fluffy clouds" could?

Sviss I agree with a lot you write on here but why keep attacking other posters? It only starts everyone off on another round of pissing contests

...because so many posts are so ridiculously bizarre, if not blatantly untrue, that they invite some kind of retort. I'm not attacking anybody, just reading and airing my views.

Fair enough. I agree with you mate. But you know it will just go on and on. we all need to wait and see what happens at Court.

[SunsetT]

What about the British police observers? Have their observations been released in the UK? Has there been any feedback since they returned to the UK?

[BoristheBlade]

The only decent way out of this for all concerned will be for the trial to go ahead but after a token few days the two defendants to be released due to "lack of evidence'.

The RTP will publicly express their disappointment, and tell the world the Burmese "did it", hence no further investigation.

No loss of face for all concerned, and the AC mob get away with it

But.....Koh Tao has serial murderers and rapists on the loose and looking for there next victim/victims and the most important no justice for Hanna and David and there two families. Hopefully the British Police Report will help there.

[Beetlejuice]

Interesting thousands of posts of rumours ifs buts and maybes it amazes me that anyone who dares says something like jdinasia that circumstantial witnesses and DNA will most likely convict then suddenly he is queried whether he has a vested interest.

The very same people who conclude that these guys are innocent are first to cast the guilt stones at anyone with a different veiw.

And a bit of thai bashing for good measure.

The trial will go ahead and yet I haven't seen one headline about the British police observations in this case.

So either their happy with the investigation or just had a nice junket.

Exactly.

We have those on here like Siampolee who tries to overpower these threads by bullying, insulting, getting personal and accusing anyone who goes against the grain with them as either being conspirators for the State or being personally involved with those working on the investigation. I have to wonder where these people are and what they`re all about?

I predicted from the outset how this case would conclude and have no reasons to cast doubts on the verdict once this reaches the court. Those that disagree with the verdict and the way this investigation has been conducted can still go ahead on facebook publishing their crackpot conspiracy theories for the rest of eternity, but it won`t make the lightest different to the outcome of this case and will eventually fall on deaf ears once this case is concluded and laid to rest.

[DaveE13]

What about the British police observers? Have their observations been released in the UK? Has there been any feedback since they returned to the UK?

They will not make any statement. Not until the inquests in January.

[Smurkster]

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What about the British police observers? Have their observations been released in the UK? Has there been any feedback since they returned to the UK?

They will not make any statement. Not until the inquests in January.

naturally, that is how police operate in the civilised world. They don't just open their traps and flap flap flap nonsense they wait until they have some sort of conclusion or something worthy to announce..

Edited December 2, 2014 by Smurkster

[Globeman]

Welcome to Thailand...

I know the public, does not have all the evidence available, as stated in the article - but just from following this case, in the media. It seems really hard to prove, beyond all doubt, that they did it.

You mean there was some piece of "Evidence" against these boys that the police didn't leak to the public? I wonder if those particular "facts" will ever come to light...

But the mere explanation of motive as "They saw the UK couple 'kissing' and got real horny and turned into homicidal rapists" is so stupid it is beyond belief.

[gbswales]

I am very concerned by the lack of any public report from the British Police sent to overview the case - even if they have to say "we were not given sufficient independent access" it would strengthen the case for further investigation into the police activity.

[DaveE13]

Interesting thousands of posts of rumours ifs buts and maybes it amazes me that anyone who dares says something like jdinasia that circumstantial witnesses and DNA will most likely convict then suddenly he is queried whether he has a vested interest.

The very same people who conclude that these guys are innocent are first to cast the guilt stones at anyone with a different veiw.

And a bit of thai bashing for good measure.

The trial will go ahead and yet I haven't seen one headline about the British police observations in this case.

So either their happy with the investigation or just had a nice junket.

Exactly.

We have those on here like Siampolee who tries to overpower these threads by bullying, insulting, getting personal and accusing anyone who goes against the grain with them as either being conspirators for the State or being personally involved with those working on the investigation. I have to wonder where these people are and what they`re all about?

I predicted from the outset how this case would conclude and have no reasons to cast doubts on the verdict once this reaches the court. Those that disagree with the verdict and the way this investigation has been conducted can still go ahead on facebook publishing their crackpot conspiracy theories for the rest of eternity, but it won`t make the lightest different to the outcome of this case and will eventually fall on deaf ears once this case is concluded and laid to rest.

I agree BJ. Nothing wrong with debating all the evidence and everyone puts in their own 'ideas' but some of the name calling is just pathetic.

I have my own opinions from the start as has everyone else. My problem all along has been the way it all started on the morning when the Kids bodies were found and the unprofessional way the crime scene was dealt with.

Also must add some of the photos by these so called hard men on the Island that were posted on Facebook and making fun of the deaths has made me sick.

But we dont know all the evidence the Police have got on the Burmese men. we just have to wait and see.

[BoristheBlade]

The British are saying nothing as yet for a reason.

The British Government will give there Thai counterparts the chance to redeem themselves or equally the chance to hang themselves.

[BritTim]

When this goes to trial, I expect

1) The trial will be very drawn out.

This gives longer for the case to fade from the public's mind. It also gives the police, prosecutor and court the time to closely monitor any events happening in the UK, or less likely, Burma or NHRC and adjust their actions accordingly to cover their backs.

2) Heavy control of reporting and close management of 'the message' by the judge and any press office.

3) Nothing in the way of an adversarial trial that Western posters would be familiar with.

Cross-examination of witnesses by barristers, lawyers, etc. is almost unheard of in Thai courts. Proceedings are much more tightly controlled and dominated by the judge.

All witnesses in Thai proceedings are subject to examination, cross examination, and re examination. This is done by the plaintiff and defence lawyers, but the judge may also ask questions during the proceedings.

Under Thai law, can "witness statements" be submitted without having to produce those witnesses to testify in court? Do they carry any weight?

I think witness testimony will be absolutely critical. I doubt there is any other trustworthy evidence they can present.

[Beetlejuice]

I am very concerned by the lack of any public report from the British Police sent to overview the case - even if they have to say "we were not given sufficient independent access" it would strengthen the case for further investigation into the police activity.

This I also quoted about in some earlier threads.

The British police were only there as a public relations exercise to appease the doubters, observers only. They will not go against the grain with the investigation or if they do have any criticisms these will be stated subtly and still will not have any influence on the judgement of the court.

[fxe1200]

"....Thai police arranged a DNA test for the son of an influential local before the media. Test results cleared the young man named on social media as the real suspect."

Somewhere I read, that the outcome of this test never made into the investigation report, as the report was with the prosecutor already, and the results have never been compared with those within the report.

But I truly forgot the name of the paper, where I read this. Maybe someone can help.

Edited December 2, 2014 by fxe1200