Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[siampolee]

As an aside one is led to wonder if a couple of those Oh so ardent supporters of the police investigation might actually know more than we think and are acting in a protective manner to cover friends activities or from a personal protection angle?

[jdinasia]

As an aside one is led to wonder if a couple of those Oh so ardent supporters of the police investigation might actually know more than we think and are acting in a protective manner to cover friends activities or from a personal protection angle?

Ah, another conspiracy theory, to attempt to discredit people who are speaking out against conspiracy theories.

[siampolee]

jdinasia post # 1068.

Ah, another conspiracy theory, to attempt to discredit people who are speaking out against conspiracy theories.

Have you taken note of the reputation of the Thai police farce force you regard as bastions of honesty?

They like their supporters are the experts in conspiracy.

[jdinasia]

jdinasia post # 1068.

Ah, another conspiracy theory, to attempt to discredit people who are speaking out against conspiracy theories.

Have you taken note of the reputation of the Thai police farce force you regard as bastions of honesty?

They like their supporters are the experts in conspiracy.

Since this thread is about the statement from the families of the victims, have you even read it?

[siampolee]

jdinasia post # 1070

Since this thread is about the statement from the families of the victims, have you even read it?

Yes I have and note it is not as you may wish it to appear to others or as you see it in your own minds.

Do you actually understand that that which is implied is indeed a very powerful comment?

Read and inwardly digest all of the contents then perhaps your minds will be opened.

Some of us have a background in law from the policing side of the fence.

Perhaps we do understand what is actually going on.

That conspiracy theory you propound is indeed very apparent in your posts defending the flawed botched face saving stipend generating police investigation

Edited December 11, 2014 by siampolee

[jdinasia]

What is my conspiracy theory?

I don't think you have read what the families wrote.

[AleG]

You know, if you are going write nonsense, keep it in one post, don't spread it into three.

Or maybe you are just looking to pad your posting numbers without actually going into the trouble of contributing anything to show for it?

In any case how about nipping at my ankles you square up and actually show you can contribute with anything of value?

How about a deal ?. Once you stop following Mork and Mindy, I start trying to follow any of your nonsense in order.

Or else I could write over and over again 'wrong pants wrong bag' a la you to get my posting up.

How about you try and stop flaming people that you can't argue with for lack of facts and arguments?

[aimbc]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

[Oscar2]

As an aside one is led to wonder if a couple of those Oh so ardent supporters of the police investigation might actually know more than we think and are acting in a protective manner to cover friends activities or from a personal protection angle?

Ah, another conspiracy theory, to attempt to discredit people who are speaking out against conspiracy theories.

when do you get any sleep? posting until what - 02:00? then starting in again at 06:50 on this same subject across multiple threads. i hope the interests that employ you - whether it's the RTP or the dive shops/resorts - are paying you well. no one else would put that much effort into it. not a chance.

[AleG]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

What RTP advocates are you talking about? I mean, in reality, not in your head; who is saying the "RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

[jdinasia]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

[jdinasia]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

If you admit it is flawed and we all admit it is flawed, then the families will have be told it is flawed.

The families probably have been told it is flawed. They are still advocating for a trial and the end to the speculation by conspiracy theorists.

[aimbc]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

Exactly, that is reason why there is much discussion about this is because many people see the flaw and would like to discuss about it. But everytime they do, you have an immediate rebuttal staying that the same thing. And advocating that the police have the right murderer and without ever seeing the report.

BTW I am not ignoring the plead from the families. The two defendant family have not ask people to help them. So why are you trying to stop people who want to see a fair trial?

You keep saying respect the rights of the family, but yet you continue to disrespect them by posting more. It takes two to tango.

[siampolee]

Well let's look at international opinion regarding the police farce force here then.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509/not-saving-thailands-face-the-backlash-of-police-corruption-in-the-murders-of-tourists/

[jdinasia]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

If you admit it is flawed and we all admit it is flawed, then the families will have be told it is flawed.

The families probably have been told it is flawed. They are still advocating for a trial and the end to the speculation by conspiracy theorists.

If the case is flawed then there is evidence out there and/or other "stuff". That is where our theories come in. If you can't understand that that is your problem, not mine.

No, flawed doesn't necessarily mean that.

[jdinasia]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

Exactly, that is reason why there is much discussion about this is because many people see the flaw and would like to discuss about it. But everytime they do, you have an immediate rebuttal staying that the same thing. And advocating that the police have the right murderer and without ever seeing the report.

BTW I am not ignoring the plead from the families. The two defendant family have not ask people to help them. So why are you trying to stop people who want to see a fair trial?

You keep saying respect the rights of the family, but yet you continue to disrespect them by posting more. It takes two to tango.

I am not posting speculation and conspiracy theories.

[Expat Girl]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

Exactly, that is reason why there is much discussion about this is because many people see the flaw and would like to discuss about it. But everytime they do, you have an immediate rebuttal staying that the same thing. And advocating that the police have the right murderer and without ever seeing the report.

BTW I am not ignoring the plead from the families. The two defendant family have not ask people to help them. So why are you trying to stop people who want to see a fair trial?

You keep saying respect the rights of the family, but yet you continue to disrespect them by posting more. It takes two to tango.

I am not posting speculation and conspiracy theories.

You are greatest peddler of conspiracies on this forum, a lot of what you say is just 'blathering' about nothing, you have made your 20,000 post, so now take a well deserved break.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Expat Girl

[jimmybkk]

OK, once more... how does "planting" the victim's own stained pants in his luggage work in framing someone?

Because if that is the standard of evidence to convict someone of murder they could have used the victim's dirty underwear as a proof, or his toothbrush, or anything else. The pants are not connected to the alleged suspect, they are not connected to the crime scene, they are nothing else than a pair of stained pants in the victims luggage, how would that "planted evidence" point at the suspect's involvement??? They may just as well planted a coconut in the luggage and called it the smoking gun for the case.

That some police officer spun some ridiculous theory early in the investigation doesn't change a thing, if you are going to plant damning evidence it's not going to be a pair of dirty pants with no connection whatsoever between the victim, the crime scene and the suspect.

2 possible reasons for the planting of the "blood-stained" pants. I use the term "blood-stained" because at the time they were planted that is what they were believed to be. Only subsequent analysis apparently showed that the substance on the pants was not blood:

1. The pants were actually found in a location that would have pointed the finger at someone else...

2. David and the Ware brothers were sharing room K8 at the Ocean View Guest House. The pants were planted in the wrong bag.

But your attempt to make the planting of the pants insignificant with your "coconut in the luggage" comment is well-noted.

Of course you shall accuse me of speculation and being a conspiracy theorist, and that's fine. I understand son - it's what you have to do. But instead of just debunking everything, how about offering a legitimate suggestion for the pants being planted?

[AleG]

OK, once more... how does "planting" the victim's own stained pants in his luggage work in framing someone?

Because if that is the standard of evidence to convict someone of murder they could have used the victim's dirty underwear as a proof, or his toothbrush, or anything else. The pants are not connected to the alleged suspect, they are not connected to the crime scene, they are nothing else than a pair of stained pants in the victims luggage, how would that "planted evidence" point at the suspect's involvement??? They may just as well planted a coconut in the luggage and called it the smoking gun for the case.

That some police officer spun some ridiculous theory early in the investigation doesn't change a thing, if you are going to plant damning evidence it's not going to be a pair of dirty pants with no connection whatsoever between the victim, the crime scene and the suspect.

2 possible reasons for the planting of the "blood-stained" pants. I use the term "blood-stained" because at the time they were planted that is what they were believed to be. Only subsequent analysis apparently showed that the substance on the pants was not blood:

1. The pants were actually found in a location that would have pointed the finger at someone else...

2. David and the Ware brothers were sharing room K8 at the Ocean View Guest House. The pants were planted in the wrong bag.

But your attempt to make the planting of the pants insignificant with your "coconut in the luggage" comment is well-noted.

Of course you shall accuse me of speculation and being a conspiracy theorist, and that's fine. I understand son - it's what you have to do. But instead of just debunking everything, how about offering a legitimate suggestion for the pants being planted?

how about offering a legitimate suggestion for the pants being planted?

The problem is that you assume the pants were planted, as in planted to frame a suspect. You don't know the full details, so you fill up the gaps using your own imagination, you are speculating and I'm not going to play that game.

[jimmybkk]

I find this interesting: Typically in an "innocent until proven guilty" scenario the onus is on the prosecutors to establish beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant(s) committed the crime he/she/they are charged with, and it would be the defense lawyers who would be the ones to refute the accusations by discrediting them as speculation, conjecture, unsubstantiated, no evidence etc. etc...

And yet in this instance (trial by Thaivisa) it seems that the tables have been turned. As far as I am aware, the only evidence that has been released that links the accused to any crimes associated with the deceased is the DNA evidence, which (firstly) has been questioned (if not ridiculed) by the director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, Khunying Porntip, and (secondly) if correct only ties them to a possible charge of rape.

Now personally I would be very reluctant to send anyone to their possible execution for murder based on this evidence, and yet rather than just sit back and be content with the way the investigation and trial is proceeding, certain vociferous TV members would prefer to take the (not inconsiderable) time to denounce and vehemently refute any suggestion that the accused may not be the perpetrators of the murder.

Now why would they do that....?

Does anyone remember the TV show The Practice? I am finding myself reminded of what they called "Plan B"...

[jimmybkk]

OK, once more... how does "planting" the victim's own stained pants in his luggage work in framing someone?

Because if that is the standard of evidence to convict someone of murder they could have used the victim's dirty underwear as a proof, or his toothbrush, or anything else. The pants are not connected to the alleged suspect, they are not connected to the crime scene, they are nothing else than a pair of stained pants in the victims luggage, how would that "planted evidence" point at the suspect's involvement??? They may just as well planted a coconut in the luggage and called it the smoking gun for the case.

That some police officer spun some ridiculous theory early in the investigation doesn't change a thing, if you are going to plant damning evidence it's not going to be a pair of dirty pants with no connection whatsoever between the victim, the crime scene and the suspect.

2 possible reasons for the planting of the "blood-stained" pants. I use the term "blood-stained" because at the time they were planted that is what they were believed to be. Only subsequent analysis apparently showed that the substance on the pants was not blood:

1. The pants were actually found in a location that would have pointed the finger at someone else...

2. David and the Ware brothers were sharing room K8 at the Ocean View Guest House. The pants were planted in the wrong bag.

But your attempt to make the planting of the pants insignificant with your "coconut in the luggage" comment is well-noted.

Of course you shall accuse me of speculation and being a conspiracy theorist, and that's fine. I understand son - it's what you have to do. But instead of just debunking everything, how about offering a legitimate suggestion for the pants being planted?

how about offering a legitimate suggestion for the pants being planted?

The problem is that you assume the pants were planted, as in planted to frame a suspect. You don't know the full details, so you fill up the gaps using your own imagination, you are speculating and I'm not going to play that game.

So in other words you can't...

As I said, what i posted were "possible reasons". You are choosing now as the time to dispute whether the pants were even planted?

[fritzzz25]

Personally, I do not give a flying what the families say. I care what the evidence says. Until that evidence is presented, and it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, these two young men are innocent. There have been two people on here who are beating the proverbial dead horse over and over. These families have lost a loved one, yes I understand that and appreciate it. But they should be ashamed of the investigation that has plastered the horrific crime scene photos of their children's nude bodies on social media within hours of these homicides. These families appear to not care who goes down for this, just that someone does. These two accused left their poor families to go abroad to be able to make a meagre living to send some money home. They were treated horribly by the local police having to pay "fines" to have the privilege to stay there and work.

These two men deserve a fair trial, with proper evidence collection, no threats, no torture, proper translation, investigators with integrity and most of all be afforded the benefit of being innocent until proven guilty. Until this trial is complete, those who are so sure that this case is "perfect" should be placing their integrity on the line. You want to see a case of a horrible police actions, look at the case called "the Surrey six" that occurred in Canada. One of the longest and worst gangland slayings in the country. The TOP investigators of an elite homicide team with combined investigation of homicides well over 50 years collectively, decided that their personal interests (one of them impregnating the star witness who was the girlfriend of one of the killers who assisted in cleaning the murder weapons) along with partying with these witnesses in other countries spending money lavishly. Their actions were called into question and had this not been such a horrific murder scene, with one of the killers (who had previously murdered two other people and was acquitted in self defence, one of who I arrested personally for the murder) confessing and testifying against the others, this travesty of an investigation was nearly tossed out of court. Here is part of the case that was ruled on about their extremely stupid actions - http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2014/2014bcsc2172/2014bcsc2172.html

What I am saying, is NO case is perfect. DNA is not fool proof. DNA says someone was there. DNA does not speak. It can only offer a very strong circumstantial case that someone was there. Here is a prime example of how DNA can be manipulated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Schneeberger and I wouldnt be surprised if "someone" did something like this to clear themselves of a DNA test.

I have 17 years of law enforcement experience, still serving and am truly embarrassed by the shoddy police work that was done. Investigation is like playing poker. You keep your cards close to your chest. Your bluff will get called, and you damn well better be holding a royal flush when you think you have a perfect case. I also have prosecuted criminal court for three years. So, unless you two have cold hard forensic evidence that was collected in a proper manner, without influence of the local village headman, his son, his dive shop buddies all over the crime scene, then show your cards.

So yeah, I am an arm chair quarter back, and I have worked murder cases, and attempted murder cases along with sexual assaults. More sexual assaults than I have ever wanted to ever have to investigate. And I can tell you, in everyone of those sexual assaults, no rapist wears a condom.

I have also been privy to some of the defence documents, as well as photographs and gone over them with highly trained forensic crime scene investigators and I can tell you, there are going to be some surprises when it comes to the police explanation of the weapons "alleged to have been used" when the forensic evidence is going to show different.

So, I apologize to the families for their loss. I have been the one who has had to break the news to families of homicide victims. They all want justice, but they want proper justice - not innocent people who are set up due to their hierarchy in society.

Edited December 11, 2014 by fritzzz25

[jimmybkk]

I also note that some members are rather fond of the term "conspiracy theory" or "conspiracy theorists" to describe those of us who are less than convinced that the case against the accused is watertight. Once again a nice attempt to deflect and discredit by debunking and rebuttal, without offering anything substantiated to back up their assertion of guilt. Not a bad strategy but times have changed...

"US & UK studies: those who “buy’ mainstream ‘lies’ are the ‘crazies’ – conspiracy theorists are ‘saner’, reflect ‘conventional wisdom”

The term was invented and put into wide circulation by the CIA to smear and defame people questioning the JFK assassination!

“The CIA’s campaign to popularize the term ‘conspiracy theory’ and make conspiracy belief a target of ridicule and hostility must be credited, unfortunately, with being one of the most successful propaganda initiatives of all time.”
Today, the CIA-designed propaganda seems to be wearing off “… those who do not believe government accounts of such events as 9/11 and the JFK assassination outnumber believers by more than two to one.”

Recent studies by psychologists and social scientists in the US and UK suggest that contrary to mainstream media stereotypes, those labeled “conspiracy theorists” appear to be saner than those who accept the official versions of contested events.

The most recent study was published on July 8th (2013) by psychologists Michael J. Wood and Karen M. Douglas of the University of Kent (UK). Entitled “What about Building 7? A social psychological study of online discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories,” the study compared “conspiracist” (pro-conspiracy theory) and “conventionalist” (anti-conspiracy) comments at news websites.

The authors were surprised to discover that it is now more conventional to (believe) so-called conspiracist comments than conventionalist ones: “Of the 2174 comments collected, 1459 were coded as conspiracist and 715 as conventionalist.” In other words, among people who comment on news articles, those who disbelieve government accounts of such events as 9/11 and the JFK assassination outnumber believers by more than two to one. That means it is the pro-conspiracy commenters who are expressing what is now the conventional wisdom, while the anti-conspiracy commenters are becoming a small, beleaguered minority.

Perhaps because their supposedly mainstream views no longer represent the majority, the anti-conspiracy commenters often displayed anger and hostility: “The research… showed that people who favoured the official account of 9/11 were generally more hostile when trying to persuade their rivals.”

Additionally, it turned out that the anti-conspiracy people were not only hostile, but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. According to them, their own theory of 9/11 – a conspiracy theory holding that 19 Arabs, none of whom could fly planes with any proficiency, pulled off the crime of the century under the direction of a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan – was indisputably true. The so-called conspiracists, on the other hand, did not pretend to have a theory that completely explained the events of 9/11: “For people who think 9/11 was a government conspiracy, the focus is not on promoting a specific rival theory, but in trying to debunk the official account.”

In short, the new study by Wood and Douglas suggests that the negative stereotype of the conspiracy theorist – a hostile fanatic wedded to the truth of his own fringe theory – accurately describes the people who defend the official account of 9/11, not those who dispute it."

[AleG]

So in other words you can't...

As I said, what i posted were "possible reasons". You are choosing now as the time to dispute whether the pants were even planted?

Yes, I dispute that, what evidence you have that the victim's pants were placed in his own luggage to frame someone?

First they were found in his room, they were assumed to be Ware's and stained with Blood, this was proven to be incorrect, their "use" as evidence connected with the crime expended by then. After that then they were put in Miller's luggage, you suggest that this was a nefarious action in order to frame someone, you don't say who or how and provide no evidence to support the assertion.

Got facts? Show them, if not you only have speculation and I refer you to the OP of this thread and the requests of the families of the victims.

[jimmybkk]

I found this interesting on the website of a well-know reporter who has been covering the case:

"There are not many journalists who have not heard the one about the mad gay foreigner who attacked the couple in a raging fit of jealousy who was caught on CCTV picking up the hoe from a building site."

Hmmm....

Oh my... I really should go and wash my brain out with soap and water for what I am thinking right now....

Plan B anyone...?

[jimmybkk]

So in other words you can't...

As I said, what i posted were "possible reasons". You are choosing now as the time to dispute whether the pants were even planted?

Yes, I dispute that, what evidence you have that the victim's pants were placed in his own luggage to frame someone?

First they were found in his room, they were assumed to be Ware's and stained with Blood, this was proven to be incorrect, their "use" as evidence connected with the crime expended by then. After that then they were put in Miller's luggage, you suggest that this was a nefarious action in order to frame someone, you don't say who or how and provide no evidence to support the assertion.

Got facts? Show them, if not you only have speculation and I refer you to the OP of this thread and the requests of the families of the victims.

Oh dear - you are clutching at straws son, and the straws are not supporting your weight.

You started referring to "planted" pants before I did. You were the one questioning how the "planted" pants could be used to frame anyone. I did not disagree. I simply pointed out that framing someone is not always the purpose of planting something, assuming that something has been planted in the first place.

[catsanddogs]

Peter Walker

The Guardian, Wednesday 10 December 2014 20.30 GMT

http://www.theguardi...der-uk-tourists

]“The British government opposes the death penalty in all circumstances, yet it appears that their actions in this case could be contributing to death sentences for Burmese migrants after an extremely unfair trial. The UK should adhere to their policy on the death penalty and should urge the Thai authorities to conduct a fair and open trial that does not result in the executions of potentially innocent individuals.”[/t-color]

Andy Hall, a British activist who works with Burmese migrants in Thailand and has been assisting the defence team, said the lack of access to the prosecution case made the task of compiling the defence “almost impossible”.[/t-color]

Email [/t-color][email protected] to request they make all evidence available to the defence team in order to provide fairness to the suspects.

[AleG]

Yes, I dispute that, what evidence you have that the victim's pants were placed in his own luggage to frame someone?

First they were found in his room, they were assumed to be Ware's and stained with Blood, this was proven to be incorrect, their "use" as evidence connected with the crime expended by then. After that then they were put in Miller's luggage, you suggest that this was a nefarious action in order to frame someone, you don't say who or how and provide no evidence to support the assertion.

Got facts? Show them, if not you only have speculation and I refer you to the OP of this thread and the requests of the families of the victims.

Oh dear - you are clutching at straws son, and the straws are not supporting your weight.

You started referring to "planted" pants before I did. You were the one questioning how the "planted" pants could be used to frame anyone. I did not disagree. I simply pointed out that framing someone is not always the purpose of planting something, assuming that something has been planted in the first place.

I suggest you look up who started referring to "planted pants" to get your bearings, unless of course, your erratic arguments are a deliberate wind up.

[Mooner]

Personally, I do not give a flying what the families say. I care what the evidence says. Until that evidence is presented, and it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, these two young men are innocent. There have been two people on here who are beating the proverbial dead horse over and over. These families have lost a loved one, yes I understand that and appreciate it. But they should be ashamed of the investigation that has plastered the horrific crime scene photos of their children's nude bodies on social media within hours of these homicides. These families appear to not care who goes down for this, just that someone does. These two accused left their poor families to go abroad to be able to make a meagre living to send some money home. They were treated horribly by the local police having to pay "fines" to have the privilege to stay there and work.

These two men deserve a fair trial, with proper evidence collection, no threats, no torture, proper translation, investigators with integrity and most of all be afforded the benefit of being innocent until proven guilty. Until this trial is complete, those who are so sure that this case is "perfect" should be placing their integrity on the line. You want to see a case of a horrible police actions, look at the case called "the Surrey six" that occurred in Canada. One of the longest and worst gangland slayings in the country. The TOP investigators of an elite homicide team with combined investigation of homicides well over 50 years collectively, decided that their personal interests (one of them impregnating the star witness who was the girlfriend of one of the killers who assisted in cleaning the murder weapons) along with partying with these witnesses in other countries spending money lavishly. Their actions were called into question and had this not been such a horrific murder scene, with one of the killers (who had previously murdered two other people and was acquitted in self defence, one of who I arrested personally for the murder) confessing and testifying against the others, this travesty of an investigation was nearly tossed out of court. Here is part of the case that was ruled on about their extremely stupid actions - http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2014/2014bcsc2172/2014bcsc2172.html

What I am saying, is NO case is perfect. DNA is not fool proof. DNA says someone was there. DNA does not speak. It can only offer a very strong circumstantial case that someone was there. Here is a prime example of how DNA can be manipulated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Schneeberger and I wouldnt be surprised if "someone" did something like this to clear themselves of a DNA test.

I have 17 years of law enforcement experience, still serving and am truly embarrassed by the shoddy police work that was done. Investigation is like playing poker. You keep your cards close to your chest. Your bluff will get called, and you damn well better be holding a royal flush when you think you have a perfect case. I also have prosecuted criminal court for three years. So, unless you two have cold hard forensic evidence that was collected in a proper manner, without influence of the local village headman, his son, his dive shop buddies all over the crime scene, then show your cards.

So yeah, I am an arm chair quarter back, and I have worked murder cases, and attempted murder cases along with sexual assaults. More sexual assaults than I have ever wanted to ever have to investigate. And I can tell you, in everyone of those sexual assaults, no rapist wears a condom.

I have also been privy to some of the defence documents, as well as photographs and gone over them with highly trained forensic crime scene investigators and I can tell you, there are going to be some surprises when it comes to the police explanation of the weapons "alleged to have been used" when the forensic evidence is going to show different.

So, I apologize to the families for their loss. I have been the one who has had to break the news to families of homicide victims. They all want justice, but they want proper justice - not innocent people who are set up due to their hierarchy in society.

Being a former law enforcer I wonder if the RTP apologists and supporters will challenge your post or just let it slip as you may have a bit too much for them to chew on!

[thailandchilli]

Certainly looks to me like the act of putting what they thought was bloody pants in Millers bag was a piece of evidence that convinced the police to arrest Chris, they even added a several witness's to state Chris had been wearing them the night before! Now whether you call that planting or not, it does look very suspicious to most people not just social media

"Police sources said Christopher Alan Ware, 25, was stopped as he was about to leave Suvarnabhumi airport on Tuesday and placed under police questioning after police found what they thought was a pair of of his bloodstained trousers in the luggage of the male victim David William Miller, 24…Investigators who searched Miller’s room found a pair of cream-coloured trousers with what they believed were bloodstains on both legs stuffed in Miller’s luggage, one of the sources said. Several witnesses confirmed Mr Ware, who left the island for Bangkok on Monday evening, was wearing the trousers the night the two victims were murdered, the same source said." http://www.anorak.co.uk/406750/news/koh-tao-murders-christopher-ware-monstered-and-hannah-witheridge-was-begging-for-it.html/

Just as well the second police team General admitted they were put there by the first set of police.