Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[DennisF]

@ Fat Haggis

Best giggle today!

I would love to come, but really not wanting to burst your bubble. The fight has barely even started. Just keeping this in the news is going to be a mission in itself. Lack of funding will stop all of this in its tracks and the b2 will fade away. Out of about 500,000. More than 400,000 has already been spent. And that is with free lawyers and advocates. In thai they say. Jai yen yen.

Roo lao

Just trying to stick in a positive.

Like you and many others I will be continuing to support this effort both financially and continually posting, plus sending support to the 2 direct.

I have been involved in elongated legal proceedings and know full well there are many pitfalls and shocks on the path to justice.

This, as you say, has just started but many of us here are in it for the long haul.

The apologists take note.

Im still looking forward to the party!

[greenchair]

Latest from SLESQ

Two foreigners to testify for defence.............Could it be Macanna and Ware?? sounds like it!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-9#entry8863118

Great news. Now if they had anything to Support the prosecutions imaginary theory, the prosecution would have snapped them up before you could say 'it wasn't the hoe'

therefore they must have something good to say to support the defense. A lot of people want to talk to them.

It may not be Sean. Plus, he's slippery, and the prosecution would have a party tearing in to his morality quotient. It may be a lady friend of Hannah's. I'll be surprised if there aren't a bunch of surprises this summer, during testimony.

Well 'found blood on clothes in his room 'obviously Chris.

Had wounds similar to David/plays guitar obviously Sean ?

[greenchair]

at 2.52 while Hannah and her friends are walking past the cctv, 3 males in what looks like same yellow t-shirts appeared....am I looking into it too much? and the male friend Hannah was walking with was on the phone. Phone records....who is he?

Can someone help me to put together a layman's timeline. Verifiable facts only please. These are my guess please change to be accurate times.

2:58 hannah last seen.

5:00 hannah found.

1:30 David last seen.

5:00 David found.

12:00 b3 went to beach on motorbike.

1:00 Muang seen 7/11 buy alcohol /cigarettes.

1:30 Muang returned to beach.

1:35 Muang left.

By foot?by motorbike?cctv proof?

----b2 left.

By foot?by bike?cctv proof?

5:00 boys found asleep by Muang.

4:45 running man go to beach.

4:50 running man ran back.

4:47 foreigner/thai girl walk in hurry.

---- mon is on beach.

Hannah found by? ???

Police come? ???

Estimated time of death.

Hannah 3:00--5:00

David 1:00--5:00 still bleeding when discovered.

Time b2 from beach to home

Estimate.

1.motorcycle. ----

2.by foot. ----.

Certainly would be grateful if someone could give me the correct times as these ones are just my best guess.

This is a worthy endeavor. However, almost all the facts will be disputed unless well sourced.

What is really needed is a moderated wiki that can be steadily populated with facts (thoroughly supported by cited sources and with any assumptions clearly specified), open questions, theories with pro and con arguments, and background on key people, places and organizations (again properly sourced).

To do this properly, would take months and involve more than just reviewing press reports and message boards.

Although this would be distasteful to many, a couple of people willing to follow guidelines but supportive of the RTP line ought also to be involved. Devil's advocates are important in producing a final product that will stand up to scrutiny.

If there is enough support for the idea, and doing it properly, I would be willing to be involved. I think we would need about 10 participants, including a couple on or near Koh Tao. These, latter, would need advice (perhaps from experienced journalists) on how to protect themselves and those they talk to.

Do not underestimate this task!

Not really looking for details just yet. Would just like someone to correct me on these times I have posted .just me being lazy really could probably fish through and find the times myself. But I am not good at finding the sources to get the information. What u are talking about is very complex. I am only looking for these correct times

[aimbc]

Interesting to see the gang of 4 have been reduced to the lone voice of the self proclaimed crusader.

One can assume that now the court is spreading the trial for a very long time that these threads will become less populated as people lose interest.

But, like draftvader, I believe a poker hand is being played and the RTP are amateurs against their opponents.

Much has been said about the non-role of the British police but I can assure you:

Having worked in a professional capacity with police from the North of England, the midlands and the south east a characteristic that is common becomes very obvious, the are all fiercely proud of what they do, how they do it, their training and their abilities.

At the moment I believe they are smarting in a serious way from the criticism they are enduring because their political masters ordered them to look like go-fors on a fools errand. Even the top brass will be taking this very personally.

They will not allow this negative perception of them to go unchallenged, thats a certainty.

I too look forward to 2015 and the revelations to come, even if they are in 15 second bursts. A 15 second burst of information from the UK is worth more than 3 months of B S from the RTP and their cronies.

Yes it is really nice to see that some of the gang of 4 may have had to take a holiday , as you say there is still one nutcase trying to derail the threads what they have been doing is so obvious and with a very clear objective to hide truths unfair for all families of the victims and the accused .

I think thai visa should have very strong penalties for these people or atlas send them a message and tell them to slow down or else , as we all know it is ok to debate but trying to flood and debate every post seems wrong.

Well, go ahead and contact the administration and share your ideas of imposing penalties on posters because you don't like what they say.

I think a person going around taking pieces of statement out of context and belittling the small fragment about is annoying and really unnecessary. And really not contributing to the discussion.

At the end, you will always go back to your corner and declare "wait for the trial" when you can't answer a question. If you are here trying to teach people how to write logic statements, either provide example and not talk down at people. Seems like you are here to push people's buttons more than help them logic.

[BritTim]

That's an interesting idea. Someone could start it, and others could add and take-away or qualify text therein. It wouldn't necessarily need a group to start, would it? I could add text, but haven't yet figured how to add photos/diagrams to wiki.

As an aside: It's interesting to note how the Gang of 4 harbor a distaste for social media, calling everything on it 'conspiracy theory,' yet what do they have to counter that? In other words, they (and/or Thai officials) are free to start a Facebook site which gives their spin on the crime and its investigation. The existing site (DSI LA) casts serious doubts on the investigation, including some riveting photo/diagramatical details. Thai officials and Gang of 4 have nothing comparable to counter that . . . . . . nada.

I knew devil's advocates would be unpopular. What they provide is criticism. Much of this may be destructive, but some will be valid and prompt us to improve our sources and arguments.

If the guidelines for the wiki are appropriate, we can force them to argue against specific points rather than just say "rubbish" without justifying their position.

They may or may not have a vested interest in the RTP line. In the end that does not matter. We just use their arguments to solidify our position (always assuming we are right).

[Willy Eckerslike]

Interesting comment from a former fleet street hack to me earlier:

'This has become so big (the case) many writers think they can make their career blowing this open.

There are many already investigating, for sure, I know at least 2 who are on the job.'

He said many things but he believes that the British press (paparazzi) are excited by the case and many see it as their stepping stone to fame and fortune.

Personally I think thats a bit sick but if thats what it takes to get to the truth, so be it.

Good post;

OK hyperthetically speaking, let's just say one of these paparazzi do manage to blow the case wide open, with definate proof of the accused innocence, say within the next month or so what happens then?????

[DennisF]

Interesting comment from a former fleet street hack to me earlier:

'This has become so big (the case) many writers think they can make their career blowing this open.

There are many already investigating, for sure, I know at least 2 who are on the job.'

He said many things but he believes that the British press (paparazzi) are excited by the case and many see it as their stepping stone to fame and fortune.

Personally I think thats a bit sick but if thats what it takes to get to the truth, so be it.

Good post;

OK hyperthetically speaking, let's just say one of these paparazzi do manage to blow the case wide open, with definate proof of the accused innocence, say within the next month or so what happens then?????

If that happens then seriously duck!!

[DennisF]

That's an interesting idea. Someone could start it, and others could add and take-away or qualify text therein. It wouldn't necessarily need a group to start, would it? I could add text, but haven't yet figured how to add photos/diagrams to wiki.

As an aside: It's interesting to note how the Gang of 4 harbor a distaste for social media, calling everything on it 'conspiracy theory,' yet what do they have to counter that? In other words, they (and/or Thai officials) are free to start a Facebook site which gives their spin on the crime and its investigation. The existing site (DSI LA) casts serious doubts on the investigation, including some riveting photo/diagramatical details. Thai officials and Gang of 4 have nothing comparable to counter that . . . . . . nada.

I knew devil's advocates would be unpopular. What they provide is criticism. Much of this may be destructive, but some will be valid and prompt us to improve our sources and arguments.

If the guidelines for the wiki are appropriate, we can force them to argue against specific points rather than just say "rubbish" without justifying their position.

They may or may not have a vested interest in the RTP line. In the end that does not matter. We just use their arguments to solidify our position (always assuming we are right).

I am investigating and analising the potential for a wiki page as I write and have been doing for about 3 weeks.

Its a minefield, but I will continue until it is either yes or no

[boomerangutang]

Interesting comment from a former fleet street hack to me earlier:

'This has become so big (the case) many writers think they can make their career blowing this open.

There are many already investigating, for sure, I know at least 2 who are on the job.'

He said many things but he believes that the British press (paparazzi) are excited by the case and many see it as their stepping stone to fame and fortune.

Personally I think thats a bit sick but if thats what it takes to get to the truth, so be it.

Good post;

OK hyperthetically speaking, let's just say one of these paparazzi do manage to blow the case wide open, with definate proof of the accused innocence, say within the next month or so what happens then?????

Thai officialdom and the Gang of 4 are going to do everything they can to diffuse/discount any evidence (prior or future) that comes forth which implicates any of the Headman's people. That's what they've been doing thus far (since the replacement head cop showed up, in late Sept). and I don't see any way they could switch alliances. There is nothing short of a full confession by perps, which is going to sway them, and even a confession would be suspect, in their view.

[mcm991]

Interesting to see the gang of 4 have been reduced to the lone voice of the self proclaimed crusader.

One can assume that now the court is spreading the trial for a very long time that these threads will become less populated as people lose interest.

But, like draftvader, I believe a poker hand is being played and the RTP are amateurs against their opponents.

Much has been said about the non-role of the British police but I can assure you:

Having worked in a professional capacity with police from the North of England, the midlands and the south east a characteristic that is common becomes very obvious, the are all fiercely proud of what they do, how they do it, their training and their abilities.

At the moment I believe they are smarting in a serious way from the criticism they are enduring because their political masters ordered them to look like go-fors on a fools errand. Even the top brass will be taking this very personally.

They will not allow this negative perception of them to go unchallenged, thats a certainty.

I too look forward to 2015 and the revelations to come, even if they are in 15 second bursts. A 15 second burst of information from the UK is worth more than 3 months of B S from the RTP and their cronies.

Yes it is really nice to see that some of the gang of 4 may have had to take a holiday , as you say there is still one nutcase trying to derail the threads what they have been doing is so obvious and with a very clear objective to hide truths unfair for all families of the victims and the accused .

I think thai visa should have very strong penalties for these people or atlas send them a message and tell them to slow down or else , as we all know it is ok to debate but trying to flood and debate every post seems wrong.

Well, go ahead and contact the administration and share your ideas of imposing penalties on posters because you don't like what they say.

I think a person going around taking pieces of statement out of context and belittling the small fragment about is annoying and really unnecessary. And really not contributing to the discussion.

At the end, you will always go back to your corner and declare "wait for the trial" when you can't answer a question. If you are here trying to teach people how to write logic statements, either provide example and not talk down at people. Seems like you are here to push people's buttons more than help them logic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Two studies published in 2013 and 2014 have found that people who are identified as trolls tend to have dark personality traits and show signs of sadism, antisocial behavior, psychopathy, and machiavellianism.^[36][37] The 2013 study suggested that there are a number of similarities between anti-social and flame trolling activities^[36] and the 2014 study suggested that the noxious personality characteristics known as the "dark triad of personality" should be investigated in the analysis of trolling, and concluded that trolling appears "to be an Internet manifestation of everyday sadism."^[37] Their relevance is suggested by research linking these traits to bullying in both adolescents and adults. The 2014 study found that trolls operate as agents of chaos on the Internet, exploiting hot-button issues to make users appear overly emotional or foolish in some manner. If an unfortunate person falls into their trap, trolling intensifies for further, merciless amusement. This is why novice Internet users are routinely admonished, "Do not feed the trolls!" The 2013 study found that trolls often have a high expectation of what it means to be successful, which is higher than they are able to attain, and this results in them resenting others who think they are successful but who fall below their standards.

[balo]

Interesting comment from a former fleet street hack to me earlier:

'This has become so big (the case) many writers think they can make their career blowing this open.

There are many already investigating, for sure, I know at least 2 who are on the job.'

He said many things but he believes that the British press (paparazzi) are excited by the case and many see it as their stepping stone to fame and fortune.

Personally I think thats a bit sick but if thats what it takes to get to the truth, so be it.

Good post;

OK hyperthetically speaking, let's just say one of these paparazzi do manage to blow the case wide open, with definate proof of the accused innocence, say within the next month or so what happens then?????

Thai officialdom and the Gang of 4 are going to do everything they can to diffuse/discount any evidence (prior or future) that comes forth which implicates any of the Headman's people. That's what they've been doing thus far (since the replacement head cop showed up, in late Sept). and I don't see any way they could switch alliances. There is nothing short of a full confession by perps, which is going to sway them, and even a confession would be suspect, in their view.

Why do you call me the gang of 4? AM I not entitled to my own opinion ?

If the headman or his closest family , the son or the ladyboy son or whoever belongs to him are guilty of commiting a murder and you can show me the evidence I will believe it. And I will hope they rot in jail .

Now we have 2 suspects from Burma . If they did it , I hope they will rot in jail .

If someone else did it and we have new evidence for that, I also hope they will rot in jail .

You seem to think that the 4 of us are some kind of a special group or something. Most Thaivisa members do not care to post in this thread at all , they have opinions but do not share it on this forum .

You belong to a group of members that will do anyting to follow leads which originally comes from theories and pure specualtions , while the majority of the members here wisely do not discuss it , just are silent observers.

I choose to have my opinion about this . Very simple really .

[Krenjai]

Interesting comment from a former fleet street hack to me earlier:

'This has become so big (the case) many writers think they can make their career blowing this open.

There are many already investigating, for sure, I know at least 2 who are on the job.'

He said many things but he believes that the British press (paparazzi) are excited by the case and many see it as their stepping stone to fame and fortune.

Personally I think thats a bit sick but if thats what it takes to get to the truth, so be it.

Good post;

OK hyperthetically speaking, let's just say one of these paparazzi do manage to blow the case wide open, with definate proof of the accused innocence, say within the next month or so what happens then?????

Thai officialdom and the Gang of 4 are going to do everything they can to diffuse/discount any evidence (prior or future) that comes forth which implicates any of the Headman's people. That's what they've been doing thus far (since the replacement head cop showed up, in late Sept). and I don't see any way they could switch alliances. There is nothing short of a full confession by perps, which is going to sway them, and even a confession would be suspect, in their view.

Why do you call me the gang of 4? AM I not entitled to my own opinion ?

If the headman or his closest family , the son or the ladyboy son or whoever belongs to him are guilty of commiting a murder and you can show me the evidence I will believe it. And I will hope they rot in jail .

Now we have 2 suspects from Burma . If they did it , I hope they will rot in jail .

If someone else did it and we have new evidence for that, I also hope they will rot in jail .

You seem to think that the 4 of us are some kind of a special group or something. Most Thaivisa members do not care to post in this thread at all , they have opinions but do not share it on this forum .

You belong to a group of members that will do anyting to follow leads which originally comes from theories and pure specualtions , while the majority of the members here wisely do not discuss it , just are silent observers.

I choose to have my opinion about this . Very simple really .

You misunderstand like a rookie the Gang of 4 = Nomsod, Mon, The Shark Ring Bouncer & the Police man who threatened Sean. Then again I think in this case the Gang of 4 may refer to the obvious four Thaivisa musketeers who diffuse/discount every single piece of evidence which points to the real culprits.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Krenjai

[katana]

There was actually a previous report of a Thai girl staying in one of the guest houses on the beach who was the victim of an attempted rape by the Thai owner who entered her room one night. She only escaped by jumping out the window.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765580-ngo-questions-if-the-two-myanmar-suspects-are-scapegoats/page-18#entry8485281

[IslandLover]

greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:

Not really looking for details just yet. Would just like someone to correct me on these times I have posted .just me being lazy really could probably fish through and find the times myself. But I am not good at finding the sources to get the information. What u are talking about is very complex. I am only looking for these correct times

@greenchair - I believe David Miller was last seen on CCTV at 1.57 a.m. walking with a group of westerners (not including Hannah). This was half an hour after he was seen walking alone and passing the man in the no. 9 football shirt. I did post the link to that CCTV footage from Sky News earlier in this thread. If you google "CCTV images David Miller Koh Tao" you can probably find it.

Has anyone considered the fact that the RTP may be in possession of CCTV images of the victims which haven't been released to the press/public? So little is known about the movements of David and Hannah from when they were in the AC bar together and after they left the AC bar, if indeed they were actually together in the bar. So far we have only seen the CCTV footage of them from (presumably) before they went to the bar.

EDIT: I posted the links to the CCTV footage on another thread. Anyway, here they are again:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-beach-murders-new-cctv-footage-emerges-david-miller-koh-tao-island-1466353

http://news.sky.com/story/1338593/thailand-cctv-of-british-man-killed-on-beach

Edited December 29, 2014 by IslandLover

[StealthEnergiser]

I think the defence should should be as asking the police who were the people on the island that tried to destroy evidence and giving false information.

Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention and had tried to destroy evidence.

Meanwhile, Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits.

But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

Edited December 29, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[IslandLover]

greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:08, said:

boomerangutang, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:49, said:

greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:45, said:

Willy Eckerslike, on 28 Dec 2014 - 12:20, said:

Latest from SLESQ

Two foreigners to testify for defence.............Could it be Macanna and Ware?? sounds like it!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-9#entry8863118

Great news. Now if they had anything to Support the prosecutions imaginary theory, the prosecution would have snapped them up before you could say 'it wasn't the hoe'

therefore they must have something good to say to support the defense. A lot of people want to talk to them.

It may not be Sean. Plus, he's slippery, and the prosecution would have a party tearing in to his morality quotient. It may be a lady friend of Hannah's. I'll be surprised if there aren't a bunch of surprises this summer, during testimony.

Well 'found blood on clothes in his room 'obviously Chris.

Had wounds similar to David/plays guitar obviously Sean ?

We shouldn't get our hopes up too much here. The defence team has only had their request to call two British witnesses to testify approved by the judge. It doesn't mean they WILL testify. Anyway, I wouldn't trust McAnna to tell the truth. There was a mistake in the quoted post too. It says both witnesses left the island the day after the murders. McAnna didn't leave Koh Tao until after the minimart incident, which I believe was about a week later. Furthermore he was seen hosting a pub crawl on the evening after the murders. Some friend of David Miller he turned out to be .

[metisdead]

Posts containing content from a facebook page has been removed as per this forum rule:

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

As facebook is not an accredited source of information, the information posted on that facebook page could be construed as defamatory. Thailand has tough Libel laws and save members any harm the posts have been removed. Please do not continue to link to the facebook site.

[boomerangutang]

There was actually a previous report of a Thai girl staying in one of the guest houses on the beach who was the victim of an attempted rape by the Thai owner who entered her room one night. She only escaped by jumping out the window.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765580-ngo-questions-if-the-two-myanmar-suspects-are-scapegoats/page-18#entry8485281

Thanks for that. When I've made long lists (several times on T.Visa) of things which Thai police didn't do (during crime investigations), that's one of the items: looking in to prior criminal activity (alleged or otherwise) of suspects. 'suspects' means: former and current suspects in this crime case. Since mankind first smashed a nut with a rock, females have not wanted to step forward after being raped or seriously harassed by sex-craved men. It's always been a taboo (and tarnished the female's reputation), in every society. However, in a case like this, Thai officials should put out requests for any women/girls who may have been sexually attacked by any suspects, to step forward a speak out. It should be made clear that it's for the purpose of being 'character witnesses' not for opening new cases of rape/attempted rape or sexual harassment, unless a woman wants to pursue that route separately (it's very hard to prove rape or attempted rape, particularly at a beach resort where everyone drinks hard, and men can simply say, "she wanted it."). Along with that, statements by women should be fielded by female officers, not men or katoy, for obvious reasons.

Does the RTP have katoy officers? Given that about 11% of Thai men are katoy, it would stand to reason....

Edited December 29, 2014 by boomerangutang

[aimbc]

greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:

Not really looking for details just yet. Would just like someone to correct me on these times I have posted .just me being lazy really could probably fish through and find the times myself. But I am not good at finding the sources to get the information. What u are talking about is very complex. I am only looking for these correct times

@greenchair - I believe David Miller was last seen on CCTV at 1.57 a.m. walking with a group of westerners (not including Hannah). This was half an hour after he was seen walking alone and passing the man in the no. 9 football shirt. I did post the link to that CCTV footage from Sky News earlier in this thread. If you google "CCTV images David Miller Koh Tao" you can probably find it.

Has anyone considered the fact that the RTP may be in possession of CCTV images of the victims which haven't been released to the press/public? So little is known about the movements of David and Hannah from when they were in the AC bar together and after they left the AC bar, if indeed they were actually together in the bar. So far we have only seen the CCTV footage of them from (presumably) before they went to the bar.

EDIT: I posted the links to the CCTV footage on another thread. Anyway, here they are again:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-beach-murders-new-cctv-footage-emerges-david-miller-koh-tao-island-1466353

http://news.sky.com/story/1338593/thailand-cctv-of-british-man-killed-on-beach

couldn't the defense request all cctv footage from the police? I am sure there will be parts missing conveniently. But it will at least point out that things were tampered with.

[BritTim]

couldn't the defense request all cctv footage from the police? I am sure there will be parts missing conveniently. But it will at least point out that things were tampered with.

One big question I have is: under Thai criminal procedure, what can the defense lawyers ask for? From what I have seen so far, the answer is not much.

[thailandchilli]

I think the defence should should be as asking the police who were the people on the island that tried to destroy evidence and giving false information.

Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention and had tried to destroy evidence.

Meanwhile, Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits.

But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

This is the kind of statement from the RTP that I bet they wish they could make vanish from the internet. One can only imagine what evidence it was that was tampered with and the false information given to divert the investigation from the real killers!

Edited December 29, 2014 by thailandchilli

[greenchair]

That's why Sean either should be here or one of the defense team go to interview him. He said he was asleep at the time of the murders. But others say he was out partying on that night. Some say he was playing guitar down at the beach also. He has said the cut is from the motorbike,but it is not consistent with a bike injury. can't see him coming back.

But someone going to see him, might get at least the part of the story that doesn't incriminate himself.

[greenchair]

greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:

Not really looking for details just yet. Would just like someone to correct me on these times I have posted .just me being lazy really could probably fish through and find the times myself. But I am not good at finding the sources to get the information. What u are talking about is very complex. I am only looking for these correct times

@greenchair - I believe David Miller was last seen on CCTV at 1.57 a.m. walking with a group of westerners (not including Hannah). This was half an hour after he was seen walking alone and passing the man in the no. 9 football shirt. I did post the link to that CCTV footage from Sky News earlier in this thread. If you google "CCTV images David Miller Koh Tao" you can probably find it.

Has anyone considered the fact that the RTP may be in possession of CCTV images of the victims which haven't been released to the press/public? So little is known about the movements of David and Hannah from when they were in the AC bar together and after they left the AC bar, if indeed they were actually together in the bar. So far we have only seen the CCTV footage of them from (presumably) before they went to the bar.

EDIT: I posted the links to the CCTV footage on another thread. Anyway, here they are again:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-beach-murders-new-cctv-footage-emerges-david-miller-koh-tao-island-1466353

http://news.sky.com/story/1338593/thailand-cctv-of-british-man-killed-on-beach

Great. Thank you

Timeline fact

2:58 hannah last seen alone.

1:27 David going to hotel.(9man)

1:56 David last seen. ( with 2 foreigner ). Looks like Tom and another girl from the groups. Can someone compare toms clothes.

Recap.

2.58 hannah last seen.

1:27 David seen.

1:56 David last seen.

[aimbc]

I don't think timeline based on the cctv footage will be able to prove anything, like what time they returned to their room. But it can certainly help piece the investigation together.

Which by the way looks like it was put together with different puzzle pieces.

[DM07]

at the get-together. . . .

If there's a guitar in the room, I could play some renditions of....

'Only You' (Platters)

'Under My Thumb' (R.Stones)

'I'm an Apeman' (Kinks)

'Teenage Wasteland' (Who)

'Midnight Rambler' (Stones)

'I'll Be Watching You' (Police)

. . . . . sing-alongs, ok.

Since I put the angle grinder through my left hand a couple of years ago you may well be short a Bass player.

Anything Rod Stewart sang I could play, plus meatloaf and many 80's bands...

Could even do Smokie!!!!

If ANY of that happened, I would have a bloody guitar in my hands by the end of the evening!

[AleG]

"#1, the judge and/or the prosecution can say, "so 'n so aren't on trial here. You are!""

Direct quote from the judge to one of the defendants: "If you were not involved in this crime, tell us who is. Don't be scared.". So a complete and utter fail for your first attempt at hand-waving things away.

"#2, it will cloud and possibly confuse the intention of the defendants, which is: TO GET ACQUITTED."

Naming the "real murderers" so they can be prosecuted would do wonders to get them acquitted.

"#3 Everyone with any knowledge of how mafia-like families operate in Thailand, knows that implicating one of their family or friends in a crime, is asking for a head bashing or a bullet."

Again, they are facing a death sentence if they are found guilty, I really don't believe you spend any more time than it takes you to write your rationalizations on thinking what you are actually saying.

"The defendants aren't supposed to do the police work of finding suspects, THE POLICE ARE."

The defense is supposed to do anything that would prove the innocence of their clients, you just make up "rules" in an attempt to rationalize things. Furthermore if the defense knows who the real killers are and don't tell they are in fact conspiring in the cover-up a double murder.

Good grief. Now you're resorting to making ridiculous suggestions as to ways to strengthen their defense such as naming who they think the real murderers are??? Did they ever claim that they were eye witnesses to what happened that night? When did the defense claim to "know" who the "real" killers are? Oh yeah, that's right, they didn't. It was just you taking the opportunity to make a ridiculous statement about the defense conspiring to cover up a double murder.

Even so you're suggesting that they spit out some names anyway because.let's face it, they're looking at the death penalty so what have they got to lose...

Hmmm.... it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that if they mention any names at all they (the defense) will be asked what proof and evidence they have to justify implicating others in this case and when that proof and evidence is not forthcoming (because let's face it, the defense have already got their hands full defending these 2 lads without having to go searching for evidence for the prosecutor's office, which is really not their job) their credibility in court will be irreparably damaged.

Nice try son, but I'd suggest you slither back into your troll hole and come up with something better than that. You can do it AleG - I know you can...

A few days ago the Burmese men released a letter saying that "real" murdered had already left Thailand, now they claim there are influential people framing them; so were they lying when they released the letter or when answering to the judge that they didn't know the "real" murderer?

"Hmmm.... it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that if they mention any names at all they (the defense) will be asked what proof and evidence they have to justify implicating others in this case and when that proof and evidence is not forthcoming (because let's face it, the defense have already got their hands full defending these 2 lads without having to go searching for evidence for the prosecutor's office, which is really not their job) their credibility in court will be irreparably damaged."

Oh, and why would that be a bad thing?, you want people to make unsubstantiated claims in court and be taken at face value? I don't call that as being part of a fair and transparent trial, do you?

[greenchair]

I don't think timeline based on the cctv footage will be able to prove anything, like what time they returned to their room. But it can certainly help piece the investigation together.

Which by the way looks like it was put together with different puzzle pieces.

Did you ever watch a Thai do a jigsaw or play a game. They work randomly. We do the corners.then the outside.then the middle. We play a game clockwise positions. They don't usually have a sequence of play. I imagine the investigation might be the same.

Sick of going round in circles.

Does anyone have the newspaper link and or picture of when bodies found.

[siampolee]

When it comes down to making ''unsubstantiated claims'' we see the expert AleG in all his glory extolling the virtues of the police investigation and basically conducting a vicious malevolent on line campaign against the .2B lads.

Every day now we see more cracks in the persecution protection case, yet the truth is still being denied.

Why is this campaign being waged and are all of those involved in the campaign against the 2B lads actually resident in Thailand .

Somehow I doubt it, seems likely that certain people who post in support one poster are it appears actually well away from the island,

Now why might that be one must ask?

Sean Mcann may well not be the only person(s) running scared or instigating a ''not me scenario'' in this matter.

Monopoly has a get out of jail free card as has reality in the form of a ''keep me out of jail card campaign'' for parties involved but as yet not exposed

by a throw of the defense dice that changes everything

The public domain puts a lot of light on certain peoples comments, location and times.

Seek and ye shall find the truth.

[StealthEnergiser]

When it comes down to making ''unsubstantiated claims'' we see the expert AleG in all his glory extolling the virtues of the police investigation and basically conducting a vicious malevolent on line campaign against the .2B lads.

Every day now we see more cracks in the persecution protection case, yet the truth is still being denied.

Why is this campaign being waged and are all of those involved in the campaign against the 2B lads actually resident in Thailand .

Somehow I doubt it, seems likely that certain people who post in support one poster are it appears actually well away from the island,

Now why might that be one must ask?

Sean Mcann may well not be the only person(s) running scared or instigating a ''not me scenario'' in this matter.

Monopoly has a get out of jail free card as has reality in the form of a ''keep me out of jail card campaign'' for parties involved but as yet not exposed

by a throw of the defense dice that changes everything

The public domain puts a lot of light on certain peoples comments, location and times.

Seek and ye shall find the truth.

If AleG thinks that he knows so much and we are all wrong then he should back up his claims with evidence of dates of when and how Nomsod travelled to from the island prior to and after the murders evidence of flight information would also help.

[siampolee]

StealthEnergiser post #2117

If AleG thinks that he knows so much and we are all wrong then he should back up his claims with evidence of dates of when and how Nomsod travelled to from the island prior to and after the murders evidence of flight information would also help.

The chances of that posting event ever happening are probably less positive as me and you opening a successful pork butchers shop at Mecca to sell pork pies at Ramadan time.