Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[thailandchilli]

Its a conspiracy theory!

[boomerangutang]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

I admit, that was strange, that they purportedly retracted the admission of guilt, while also purportedly admitting they did it. What's the comparative time line on those statements? I feel strongly there's something about that interview which is eluding us observing outsiders. Was the re-admission of guilt claimed (by the B2) before or after they had spoken with their lawyers? Was it correctly translated? It seems too weird when, for several weeks now, we (the general public) are being told they've retracted their confessions. Perhaps they still felt some sorts of pressure, just days after their forced confessions. I don't know.

Was it correctly translated?

They made that confession to Myanmar representative and the report is in a Myanmar based website.

The HRC commissioner had Burmese speakers with him as well.

Perhaps the subsequent confessions were translated correctly (from Burmese to Thai to English, or from Burmese to English to Thai). If so, that could be interesting evidence for the prosecution team. However, there is still the 'time-frame.' Those conversations were quite soon (1 or 2 days?) after the forced confessions, so the suspects may have experienced lingering psychological jitters. At the 'safe house' they were confronted by stern-faced older men representing authority. At the subsequent encounter, they were faced by stern-faced older men representing authority. Very recent psychological scars of being tortured (or the threat of being tortured) by such men, were still in their minds. It's v. likely (common practice) for Thai authorities to threaten dire punishment (death, for example) if suspects don't plead guilty, - and offer leniency, if suspects plead guilty. Even so, that's water under the bridge, because as soon as the B2 understood how their Burmese speaking lawyers described their legal rights, the Burmese insisted on their innocence, and have done so every since.

[boomerangutang]

....that the body of the victim was sent back to the UK over two weeks before the arrest of the suspects so to plant the DNA they would had needed samples (of the correct type) before that, anything else would require complicity from UK authorities in the cover-up.

It's been explained earlier, how easy it would be (for just one person) to tamper with the DNA trail simply by altering labels on samples and/or files. Perhaps Brit authorities checked DNA independently, but at this point, the general public don't know. 'planting' DNA would not be necessary. The key DNA profiles are the two or three found in/on Hannah. If those are re-labeled, that changes the whole playing field.

[AleG]

....that the body of the victim was sent back to the UK over two weeks before the arrest of the suspects so to plant the DNA they would had needed samples (of the correct type) before that, anything else would require complicity from UK authorities in the cover-up.

It's been explained earlier, how easy it would be (for just one person) to tamper with the DNA trail simply by altering labels on samples and/or files. Perhaps Brit authorities checked DNA independently, but at this point, the general public don't know. 'planting' DNA would not be necessary. The key DNA profiles are the two or three found in/on Hannah. If those are re-labeled, that changes the whole playing field.

No, it hasn't been explained; you conjured up a facile rationalization that only demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the matter you are discussing.

[BoristheBlade]

JD you hatred towards the "foreigners' involved in this case is scary.

You clearly have a problem and an agenda.

The persecution of the Burmese is a disgrace and your 100% support of it speaks volumes of your character.

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

This is history. Not the current situation. Please don't deliberately influence new posters.

Huh?

They didn't confess once, or twice...

It was at least 3 times. To different people! The police. The HRC commissioner. The Myanmar legal team.

In court if I were the prosecution, I would call all three. Address the issue of the accusation of coercion by the police when they were called. Then the HRC commissioner, no accusation of coercion. Then the Myanmar legal team, no accusation of coercion.. Normally you could not call them but since they made the public statement....

What is history is other people having been suspects.

[IslandLover]

boomerangutang, on 18 Dec 2014 - 07:13, said:

IslandLover, on 17 Dec 2014 - 17:21, said:

Apparently Hannah was an accomplished guitar player and singer....

If that info was found via social media, it must be conspiracy theory, according to jdinasia and his gang of 4.

No, this information comes from a bona-fide source. It was stated that Hannah was an accomplished guitar player and singer in an obituary by the school she attended in Norfolk. Unfortunately my original post has been edited by the moderator so it makes little sense in the context of the post I was replying to. I just wanted to point out that Hannah had musical interests and had this in common with both the Burmese and Sean. Food for thought, perhaps?

[BoristheBlade]

I hope when the defence use every conceivable delaying tactic in the court room.

It would be wonderful if the British Coroners report was published before the Thai court verdict.

[thailandchilli]

boomerangutang, on 18 Dec 2014 - 07:13, said:

IslandLover, on 17 Dec 2014 - 17:21, said:

Apparently Hannah was an accomplished guitar player and singer....

If that info was found via social media, it must be conspiracy theory, according to jdinasia and his gang of 4.

No, this information comes from a bona-fide source. It was stated that Hannah was an accomplished guitar player and singer in an obituary by the school she attended in Norfolk. Unfortunately my original post has been edited by the moderator so it makes little sense in the context of the post I was replying to. I just wanted to point out that Hannah had musical interests and had this in common with both the Burmese and Sean. Food for thought, perhaps?

David Miller also enjoyed playing the guitar, video of his here http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/british-backpackers-thailand-murders-recap-4272933

[greenchair]

thailandchilli, on 17 Dec 2014 - 09:28, said:

Here's some witnesses

A better image of potential witnesses would be this one.

Only 3 seconds apart then.

I had a partner once that used to walk ahead of me when holding my hand sometimes. This always happened when he had something on his mind or was in a hurry, and he seemed to forget that I was attached to him. This does not look like a couple taking a relaxing stroll to me.

I thought the same thing. He looked like he was in a right hurry.

[greenchair]

I hope when the defence use every conceivable delaying tactic in the court room.

It would be wonderful if the British Coroners report was published before the Thai court verdict.

The golden report. By law the defense team can request a copy, even if not made public yet.

The brit cops told them to,in so many words.

[greenchair]

The original story said English songs. After the ole switcharoo, it was burmy songs in the b2 dialect. So here are all the guitar players.

Sean

B2

Hannah

David

Any pictures of mon with a guitar would be a treat.

There they were all down at the beach.

Come hell or high water,the truth will be known.

[aimbc]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

I admit, that was strange, that they purportedly retracted the admission of guilt, while also purportedly admitting they did it. What's the comparative time line on those statements? I feel strongly there's something about that interview which is eluding us observing outsiders. Was the re-admission of guilt claimed (by the B2) before or after they had spoken with their lawyers? Was it correctly translated? It seems too weird when, for several weeks now, we (the general public) are being told they've retracted their confessions. Perhaps they still felt some sorts of pressure, just days after their forced confessions. I don't know.

Was it correctly translated?

They made that confession to Myanmar representative and the report is in a Myanmar based website.

The HRC commissioner had Burmese speakers with him as well.

Perhaps the subsequent confessions were translated correctly (from Burmese to Thai to English, or from Burmese to English to Thai). If so, that could be interesting evidence for the prosecution team. However, there is still the 'time-frame.' Those conversations were quite soon (1 or 2 days?) after the forced confessions, so the suspects may have experienced lingering psychological jitters. At the 'safe house' they were confronted by stern-faced older men representing authority. At the subsequent encounter, they were faced by stern-faced older men representing authority. Very recent psychological scars of being tortured (or the threat of being tortured) by such men, were still in their minds. It's v. likely (common practice) for Thai authorities to threaten dire punishment (death, for example) if suspects don't plead guilty, - and offer leniency, if suspects plead guilty. Even so, that's water under the bridge, because as soon as the B2 understood how their Burmese speaking lawyers described their legal rights, the Burmese insisted on their innocence, and have done so every since.

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

[jdinasia]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

[CharlieH]

off topic removed

[Willy Eckerslike]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

And........................ The same.Burmese lawyers from the embassy............. held a press conference yesterday and declared the accused are innocent...........

[jdinasia]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

And........................ The same.Burmese lawyers from the embassy............. held a press conference yesterday and declared the accused are innocent...........

That will play well in court. Yes, our clients told us that they are guilty and we said so publicly, but they are innocent.

[thailandchilli]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

And........................ The same.Burmese lawyers from the embassy............. held a press conference yesterday and declared the accused are innocent...........

That will play well in court. Yes, our clients told us that they are guilty and we said so publicly, but they are innocent.

The time they confessed to the HRC (Thai) and 2 of his staff (unconfirmed what nationality although I doubt the HRC has Burmese working for them) was on the 7th Oct, just a few days after their arrest and alleged torture. Hardly surprising they did not trust another Thai or even believe he was from the Human rights commission. It should also be noted that the Human Rights Commission then demanded the RTP to the first meeting to hear the torture allegations, 4 or 5 cancelled meetings later......

I can find no record of them confessing to the legal team so please supply that link if you want to confirm it. I do remember reading it somewhere but without a link that's hearsay.

Its was only after their parents came to visit that they felt safe and in secure company, that's when they alleged even more torture claims.

Edited December 19, 2014 by thailandchilli

[jdinasia]

The link was supplied in this thread.

In fact the link is in a quoted post on this page

Both the HRC and the lawyers from the lawyers council had Burmese speakers with them.

Edited December 19, 2014 by jdinasia

[thailandchilli]

Got it thanks

"Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September. However, he said, their stories were “somewhat inconsistent” and “their faces portrayed fear”.

The statement to the HRC however is not mentioned even though you state that it was in front of 2 Burmese speakers? http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/tourist-murder-suspects-confess-human-rights-commissioner

Edited December 19, 2014 by thailandchilli

[jdinasia]

Cherry picking again

[thailandchilli]

Absolutely

For one whose posts contain the words 'pure speculation' in response to other posters so often, then its only fair your speculations are also pointed out

Edited December 19, 2014 by thailandchilli

[jdinasia]

Absolutely

For one whose posts contain the words 'pure speculation' in response to other posters so often, then its only fair your speculations are also pointed out

No speculation in my post. Just cannot link to the source published in Thai and English.

But the cherry picking remark was to the attempt to diminish the fact that their own lawyers stated that they confessed.

[thailandchilli]

Absolutely

For one whose posts contain the words 'pure speculation' in response to other posters so often, then its only fair your speculations are also pointed out

No speculation in my post. Just cannot link to the source published in Thai and English.

But the cherry picking remark was to the attempt to diminish the fact that their own lawyers stated that they confessed.

That's convenient for you, normally making a claim then linking to source is the only way to make it credible otherwise its pure speculation and how it remains

The HRC commissioner had Burmese speakers with him as well.

Where's your source for the above

Edited December 19, 2014 by thailandchilli

[Willy Eckerslike]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

And........................ The same.Burmese lawyers from the embassy............. held a press conference yesterday and declared the accused are innocent...........

That will play well in court. Yes, our clients told us that they are guilty and we said so publicly, but they are innocent.

You missed out the Bit.........between but ... they........since that date back in early October when our clients were still suffering from their ordeal at the hands of the RTP, our investigation has moved forward and now we have witnesses and proof that .......

[IslandLover]

stephen terry, on 18 Dec 2014 - 17:32, said:stephen terry, on 18 Dec 2014 - 17:32, said:

jdinasia, on 18 Dec 2014 - 15:10, said:jdinasia, on 18 Dec 2014 - 15:10, said:

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

This is history. Not the current situation. Please don't deliberately influence new posters.

It was reported in the press that the reason they "confessed" to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy in the beginning was because they had been traumatised by their treatment by the RTP and the pancake vendor and didn't know who they could trust. Sounds plausible to me. The B2 probably thought the legal team were there to torture them as well IMO.

Edited December 19, 2014 by IslandLover

[jdinasia]

stephen terry, on 18 Dec 2014 - 17:32, said:stephen terry, on 18 Dec 2014 - 17:32, said:

jdinasia, on 18 Dec 2014 - 15:10, said:jdinasia, on 18 Dec 2014 - 15:10, said:

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

This is history. Not the current situation. Please don't deliberately influence new posters.

It was reported in the press that the reason they "confessed" to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy in the beginning was because they had been traumatised by their treatment by the RTP and the pancake vendor and didn't know who they could trust. Sounds plausible to me. The B2 probably thought the legal team were there to torture them as well IMO.

So, all 3 confessions were false?

And no, it was not reported in the press. It was speculated as to why and not by the press.

Edited December 19, 2014 by jdinasia

[jdinasia]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

And........................ The same.Burmese lawyers from the embassy............. held a press conference yesterday and declared the accused are innocent...........

That will play well in court. Yes, our clients told us that they are guilty and we said so publicly, but they are innocent.

You missed out the Bit.........between but ... they........since that date back in early October when our clients were still suffering from their ordeal at the hands of the RTP, our investigation has moved forward and now we have witnesses and proof that .......

I didn't miss that at all.

The conspiracy theorists have indeed missed that the case moved forward.

Edited December 19, 2014 by jdinasia

[Willy Eckerslike]

<Messed up quotes deleted>

I am sure they had a hard time trusting any one. I wouldn't doubt the police brought someone in who pretended to help them and threaten them again if they didn't say what they wanted to say. Again with the small amount of credibility these group of police have, nothing out of their mouth can be trusted

Really?

First time was HRC commissioner, second time Burmese lawyers from the embassy? And......

And........................ The same.Burmese lawyers from the embassy............. held a press conference yesterday and declared the accused are innocent...........

That will play well in court. Yes, our clients told us that they are guilty and we said so publicly, but they are innocent.

You missed out the Bit.........between but ... they........since that date back in early October when our clients were still suffering from their ordeal at the hands of the RTP, our investigation has moved forward and now we have witnesses and proof that .......

I didn't miss that at all.

The conspiracy theorists have indeed missed that the case moved forward.

You are right when you said........"The conspiracy theorists have indeed missed that the case moved forward"..............whilst the majority of posters on here are now discussing the press conference of yesterday you are still discussing confessions that were recanted months ago........................

[dcutman]

Absolutely

For one whose posts contain the words 'pure speculation' in response to other posters so often, then its only fair your speculations are also pointed out

No speculation in my post. Just cannot link to the source published in Thai and English.

But the cherry picking remark was to the attempt to diminish the fact that their own lawyers stated that they confessed.

Really, you honestly believe the B2 lawyers came out and told the world they had confessed the the murders? Exactly how many defense lawyers do you know that would do that? Wether the B2 confessed to them or not?

Same goes for the human rights guy, there to protect their rights, why would he do that?

Think about that for a minute.

BTW this supposed confession happened on the 7th, I believe these two kids where finally brought to a police station on the 2nd, they had no council from the time of arrest/interrogation until then?

I am pretty sure I read reports they actually didnt receive council until after the 10th of October.

Edited December 19, 2014 by dcutman

[jdinasia]

Absolutely

For one whose posts contain the words 'pure speculation' in response to other posters so often, then its only fair your speculations are also pointed out

No speculation in my post. Just cannot link to the source published in Thai and English.

But the cherry picking remark was to the attempt to diminish the fact that their own lawyers stated that they confessed.

Really, you honestly believe the B2 lawyers came out and told the world they had confessed the the murders? Exactly how many defense lawyers do you know that would do that? Wether the B2 confessed to them or not?

Same goes for the human rights guy, there to protect their rights, why would he do that?

Think about that for a minute.

BTW this supposed confession happened on the 7th, I believe these two kids where finally brought to a police station on the 2nd, they had no council from the time of arrest/interrogation until then?

I am pretty sure I read reports they actually didnt receive council until after the 10th of October.

Yes, indeed I believe that the lawyers admitted publicly their clients confessed to them.

It was announced in 3 different languages