British national Tommy Diver taunts UK police from Thailand

[chrisinth]

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Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

Big talk and childish mutterings.

Sometimes it is extremely hard to differentiate between the two, especially if they have never been there.

[I Like Thai]

@Baerboxer

You

You'd need to be incredibly dumb to actually believe violence could win over the long term. It never has and many of those who live by the sword die by it. Thatcher, I think, despised the IRA for the cowardly murders of people including her friend the WW2 hero Airey Neave, But she realized the the IRA, INLA, UDA, UVF and UFF were not the entire population. You can't strife for a fair and just society in the UK and leave out Ulster.

Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley saw this, and were able to put the past aside and work hard together to achieve real progress. Dinosaurs like Adams were sidelined.

Do you know of any politician who isn't two (or more when necessary) faced?

Me

The IRA didn't murder Airey Neave, that was the INLA.

Adams hasn't been sidelined and is still a leading figure in the movement to unite Eire after the unilateral partition of it by the English, thankfully a peaceful movement.

Thatcher was one of the most despicable politicians of the recent past. All politicians lie I agree but her lies destroyed communities.

However that all said I agree with your condemnation of violence.

It is never a solution.

Thatcher was a politician I will never forgive but she wasn't stupid and realised that violence had failed.

All sides including the govt have blood on their hands because of the violence perpetrated by the paramilitary groups. All of them.

That is past.

A treaty was signed.

Peace has been achieved.

We all need to move on.

Was it the INLA who murdered Neave? They claimed responsibility although other theories exist. Anyway he was murdered, probably by Irish terrorists which I'm sure Mrs Thatcher would have noted.

You may view Thatcher how you want to, from an Irish perspective, but she took over a UK that had become the sick man of Europe being completely <deleted> up by trades unions that had been infiltrated by the extreme left. She was the medicine the UK needed at that time, however unpalatable that may have been. She was democratically elected, the longest serving PM of the 20th century and the only woman to hold that office. So, many did not support your view. Like many, she arguable went too far in the other direction.

Violence creates more violence as a response, which creates more violence. A vicious cycle. Once someone becomes embroiled it's hard to break out of. Adams still spouts the old rhetoric. He's held in check, and pushed south of the border. Understandable. McGuiness, has the intelligence and honesty to admit the wrong doings, on all sides, of the past and expresses correctly how things that seemed right at the time, can be seen to be so wrong later.

A deal was done, an agreement signed. There are dissidents and criminals hiding under political banners who still need dealing with. This warrant jumper is possibly an example. Peace anywhere is fragile - just look at how quickly violence has erupted all around the world.

One poster on this thread supports the idea of political violence, and even advocates it in support of a united Ireland, even though the majority in Ulster want to remain part of the UK. Whilst people think like that violence will always be just below the surface.

... and the majority of people in the Republic want to see Ireland reunited again. So who do we listen to? The wishes of the people of Ulster or the people of the Republic? I know! Why don't we listen to what the "majority of people on the island of Ireland" want... both from Ulster and the Republic.

Ireland should be grateful that we're nicer in the UK towards terrorists than the Americans are. Otherwise we'd have just gone to war on Ireland to teach them how terrorists should have been dealt with. That process of listening to the needs of the British people would take approximately a week.

Ye tried that for 800 years and ye failed

Edited December 28, 2014 by I Like Thai

[Baerboxer]

What happens if one of these criminal groups wins - then get's democratically defeated in elections? Do you think they would accept that, put their guns away and become democratic citizens? Or do you think any group can simply take up arms to further it's own agenda - whatever that might be.

Are we talking about Thailand now?

And General Prayut?

I was thinking more like Robert Mugabe, or Eamon de Valera - someone who was actually a career terrorist.

The current situation in Thailand is nothing like what we're talking about.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

Fine - but most Irish people are intelligent, hospitable, sensible and full of common senses. All the ones I know do not support terrorists who today are happy to murder anyone, and finance themselves in anyway, whether they claim to be dissident republicans, fanatical loyalists of moslem extremists.

A friend's grandad was a volunteer with the IRA, the real soldiers who fought in the flying columns. Another friend's father was a RUC officer murdered by terrorists at a checkpoint. That is history. Two world wars were fought against Germany, but having lived and worked there several times, some of my best friends are German.

Terrorists, whatever their claim, are murderers who believe the end justifies the means. Against such people, whoever they are, the end does justify the means.

[Baerboxer]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

Wonder what the reaction would've been had the loyalists planted a few bombs in Eire.

Up to now the Jihadists have left Ireland alone, although I thought some Irish troops had been killed whilst on UN peacekeeping duty.

[ffaarraanngg]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

Oh yes Micks are invincible, but good to know who on here supports murdering scum, including those who like your comment.

Edited December 28, 2014 by ffaarraanngg

[mijako]

Why does Thailand open its doors to these types of people?

I'm sure with his attitude and mouth, he will get noticed very soon in BKK and someone will rat him in.

It's a pretty simple explanation.

Unless there is something logged on his Passport records to show he is a wanted man which would be flagged up at Immigration he would gain entry to Thailand just like everyone else,

In fact he would gain entry to nearly every country on the planet

So to summarize what is your point about somehow blaming Thailand for something that is the British Authorities fault for not confiscating or flagging his passport?

darrendsd, you're absolutely right!

Edited December 28, 2014 by mijako

[IrishMick]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

Oh yes Micks are invincible, but good to know who on here supports murdering scum, including those who like your comment.

Been there, wore the T shirt. Oh and by the way the British Government pay my salary.

And to make a few of the hard men here choke on their morning Leo, thanks to the Good Friday Agreement anyone convicted of so called heinous crimes are not barred from working anywhere they want. There are few university lecturers that I know that not only teach politics and history, they made it. I also know men who were incarcerated by a dip lock court who are now teachers in England.

Here is a lawyer who left the IRA because they entered the peace process. There are hundreds like him

http://www.irishnews.com/news/the-middle-class-lad-from-dublin-who-joined-the-ira-solicitor-s-book-t-1395320

Time is a great healer. Especially for those who were in the middle of the madness and that’s on all sides. From experience the bitterness comes from those who haven't got a clue and their biggest challenge in life is getting the price of the next pint.

[harrry]

@Baerboxer

You

You'd need to be incredibly dumb to actually believe violence could win over the long term. It never has and many of those who live by the sword die by it. Thatcher, I think, despised the IRA for the cowardly murders of people including her friend the WW2 hero Airey Neave, But she realized the the IRA, INLA, UDA, UVF and UFF were not the entire population. You can't strife for a fair and just society in the UK and leave out Ulster.

Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley saw this, and were able to put the past aside and work hard together to achieve real progress. Dinosaurs like Adams were sidelined.

Do you know of any politician who isn't two (or more when necessary) faced?

Me

The IRA didn't murder Airey Neave, that was the INLA.

Adams hasn't been sidelined and is still a leading figure in the movement to unite Eire after the unilateral partition of it by the English, thankfully a peaceful movement.

Thatcher was one of the most despicable politicians of the recent past. All politicians lie I agree but her lies destroyed communities.

However that all said I agree with your condemnation of violence.

It is never a solution.

Thatcher was a politician I will never forgive but she wasn't stupid and realised that violence had failed.

All sides including the govt have blood on their hands because of the violence perpetrated by the paramilitary groups. All of them.

That is past.

A treaty was signed.

Peace has been achieved.

We all need to move on.

Was it the INLA who murdered Neave? They claimed responsibility although other theories exist. Anyway he was murdered, probably by Irish terrorists which I'm sure Mrs Thatcher would have noted.

You may view Thatcher how you want to, from an Irish perspective, but she took over a UK that had become the sick man of Europe being completely <deleted> up by trades unions that had been infiltrated by the extreme left. She was the medicine the UK needed at that time, however unpalatable that may have been. She was democratically elected, the longest serving PM of the 20th century and the only woman to hold that office. So, many did not support your view. Like many, she arguable went too far in the other direction.

Violence creates more violence as a response, which creates more violence. A vicious cycle. Once someone becomes embroiled it's hard to break out of. Adams still spouts the old rhetoric. He's held in check, and pushed south of the border. Understandable. McGuiness, has the intelligence and honesty to admit the wrong doings, on all sides, of the past and expresses correctly how things that seemed right at the time, can be seen to be so wrong later.

A deal was done, an agreement signed. There are dissidents and criminals hiding under political banners who still need dealing with. This warrant jumper is possibly an example. Peace anywhere is fragile - just look at how quickly violence has erupted all around the world.

One poster on this thread supports the idea of political violence, and even advocates it in support of a united Ireland, even though the majority in Ulster want to remain part of the UK. Whilst people think like that violence will always be just below the surface.

... and the majority of people in the Republic want to see Ireland reunited again. So who do we listen to? The wishes of the people of Ulster or the people of the Republic? I know! Why don't we listen to what the "majority of people on the island of Ireland" want... both from Ulster and the Republic.

Ireland should be grateful that we're nicer in the UK towards terrorists than the Americans are. Otherwise we'd have just gone to war on Ireland to teach them how terrorists should have been dealt with. That process of listening to the needs of the British people would take approximately a week.

I think it took a lot longer than that till the UK backed off a bit.

[DaveinAsia]

This is for all the Brits calling Irish Freedom Fighters cowardy scum, and this is only a top 10 of British crimes against humanity. The whole list of British cowardly acts would probably take 10 full pages here

http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/

Every country on that list has benefitted considerably from international aid, famine relief, earthquake rescue etc from the tiny little country they hate and continue to blame for everything.

Back on topic; where's this left footer?

Lol, so that makes it ok to murder them as you please? You are obviously in denial mate. Britain has one of the worst colonial records ever and even today continues to conquer other countries, e.g. Afghanistan and Iraq. Sorry to say it but Britain together with its allies are responsible for most of the s_hit going on in the world today

[evadgib]

Blairs disasterous Afghan folley ended last week.

Edited January 3, 2015 by evadgib

[ThePlant]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

I saw a former UK Marine do just this one night to some 'Irish' prat (with a Manc accent (?) who claimed he was IRA) who'd been drunkenly spouting Anti-British crap for the best part of an hour in a British bar on Sukhumwit late one night until one lad had heard enough and invited the lad to take his nonsense out into the soi.

He maybe thought because most of the blokes in the pub were older than him they'd be intimidated by his cheap tattoos, bald head, fat gut and PHd in talking B*llocks.

He was called 'Mick' too funnily enough.....

Though He wasn't too keen to carry on the 'discussion' when invited out in the soi by this marine who would be joined by a few other rather pee'd off ex servicemen/Brits who'd been putting up with his drivel for a while; in fact; I rather fancy 'Mick' then did a pooh in his pants, paid his bill, ran off into the first cab he could grab so that somewhat undermines your silly post....

Maybe being an 'IRA terrorist' is this year's "I was in the SAS but can't talk about it...." trend of BS to hit the expat bars of Thailand for 2015.....?

[balo]

Thailand is a divers paradise so no wonder why Diver choose to come here......

[ffaarraanngg]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

Oh yes Micks are invincible, but good to know who on here supports murdering scum, including those who like your comment.

Been there, wore the T shirt. Oh and by the way the British Government pay my salary.

And to make a few of the hard men here choke on their morning Leo, thanks to the Good Friday Agreement anyone convicted of so called heinous crimes are not barred from working anywhere they want. There are few university lecturers that I know that not only teach politics and history, they made it. I also know men who were incarcerated by a dip lock court who are now teachers in England.

Here is a lawyer who left the IRA because they entered the peace process. There are hundreds like him

http://www.irishnews.com/news/the-middle-class-lad-from-dublin-who-joined-the-ira-solicitor-s-book-t-1395320

Time is a great healer. Especially for those who were in the middle of the madness and that’s on all sides. From experience the bitterness comes from those who haven't got a clue and their biggest challenge in life is getting the price of the next pint.

Clearly you aren't one of these Genius paddies you talk of as self awareness is clearly lacking on your part.

You insinuate that anyone speaking to an Irishman in a bar will get a hiding for speaking out against murdering scum like this or the IRA in general.

You also talk of your wide knowledge of Irish bars in Thailand and in your next post mock people who drink as lacking knowledge. And as you were inferring I drink I can categorically state its only on the rarest of occasions these days ... too many tossers who think theyre badboy in bars these day.

[Loaded]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

Oh yes Micks are invincible, but good to know who on here supports murdering scum, including those who like your comment.

Been there, wore the T shirt. Oh and by the way the British Government pay my salary.

And to make a few of the hard men here choke on their morning Leo, thanks to the Good Friday Agreement anyone convicted of so called heinous crimes are not barred from working anywhere they want. There are few university lecturers that I know that not only teach politics and history, they made it. I also know men who were incarcerated by a dip lock court who are now teachers in England.

Here is a lawyer who left the IRA because they entered the peace process. There are hundreds like him

http://www.irishnews.com/news/the-middle-class-lad-from-dublin-who-joined-the-ira-solicitor-s-book-t-1395320

Time is a great healer. Especially for those who were in the middle of the madness and that’s on all sides. From experience the bitterness comes from those who haven't got a clue and their biggest challenge in life is getting the price of the next pint.

as a British taxpayer and Irish republican you are qualified to answer this question:

Would you rather live in a country governed by the British Parliament or a 'government' controlled by Irish republicans such as Adams and McGuinnes?

be honest now paddy

Edited January 6, 2015 by Loaded

[paulchiangmai]

Next year's election will cement Sinn Feins position as the biggest party on the island of Ireland. Not bad for a bunch of so called murdering cowards. Maybe it has more to do with the brave decisions they make!!

Not personally touched by a death then? From either side - they were as bad as each other.

Convince me that the women and children that died were worth it. Seriously - convince me.

Well to be fair,

Protestant England conquered Catholic Ireland, forced the Catholic indignants off their land and brought in Protestant settlers.

One could argue the occupying settlers needed removing along with the occupying troops.

If the Protestant women and children refused to leave voluntarily, then they would probably be considered fair game to the resistance.

Nobody was forcing them to live there.

After all Rome played the same game a bit earlier in England, and the English tribes slaughtered all the Roman settlers.

Britain happily gave independence to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Scotland (a little bit), et al, without a big fight, so why not Ireland?

Didn't the people of Southern Ireland gain their independence in 1917? Didn't the people of Northern Ireland vote to remain part of Britain? Have I had it all wrong these past many years.

[micmichd]

Were the Irish (all Irish) ever asked if they wanted their country divided in two parts?

[TheSiemReaper]

Were the Irish (all Irish) ever asked if they wanted their country divided in two parts?

You must be insane if you think any nation ever asked the population about where their borders should be. The majority that lives in Northern Ireland do not consider themselves part of EIRE they want to be part of the UK. Self-determination beats the whining of losers every time for my money. Now hopefully; the folks of Hong Kong, Western Sahara, and many other places will get that option too in the future.

[micmichd]

I'm German.

[worzel]

@Baerboxer

You

You'd need to be incredibly dumb to actually believe violence could win over the long term. It never has and many of those who live by the sword die by it. Thatcher, I think, despised the IRA for the cowardly murders of people including her friend the WW2 hero Airey Neave, But she realized the the IRA, INLA, UDA, UVF and UFF were not the entire population. You can't strife for a fair and just society in the UK and leave out Ulster.

Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley saw this, and were able to put the past aside and work hard together to achieve real progress. Dinosaurs like Adams were sidelined.

Do you know of any politician who isn't two (or more when necessary) faced?

Me

The IRA didn't murder Airey Neave, that was the INLA.

Adams hasn't been sidelined and is still a leading figure in the movement to unite Eire after the unilateral partition of it by the English, thankfully a peaceful movement.

Thatcher was one of the most despicable politicians of the recent past. All politicians lie I agree but her lies destroyed communities.

However that all said I agree with your condemnation of violence.

It is never a solution.

Thatcher was a politician I will never forgive but she wasn't stupid and realised that violence had failed.

All sides including the govt have blood on their hands because of the violence perpetrated by the paramilitary groups. All of them.

That is past.

A treaty was signed.

Peace has been achieved.

We all need to move on.

Was it the INLA who murdered Neave? They claimed responsibility although other theories exist. Anyway he was murdered, probably by Irish terrorists which I'm sure Mrs Thatcher would have noted.

You may view Thatcher how you want to, from an Irish perspective, but she took over a UK that had become the sick man of Europe being completely <deleted> up by trades unions that had been infiltrated by the extreme left. She was the medicine the UK needed at that time, however unpalatable that may have been. She was democratically elected, the longest serving PM of the 20th century and the only woman to hold that office. So, many did not support your view. Like many, she arguable went too far in the other direction.

Violence creates more violence as a response, which creates more violence. A vicious cycle. Once someone becomes embroiled it's hard to break out of. Adams still spouts the old rhetoric. He's held in check, and pushed south of the border. Understandable. McGuiness, has the intelligence and honesty to admit the wrong doings, on all sides, of the past and expresses correctly how things that seemed right at the time, can be seen to be so wrong later.

A deal was done, an agreement signed. There are dissidents and criminals hiding under political banners who still need dealing with. This warrant jumper is possibly an example. Peace anywhere is fragile - just look at how quickly violence has erupted all around the world.

One poster on this thread supports the idea of political violence, and even advocates it in support of a united Ireland, even though the majority in Ulster want to remain part of the UK. Whilst people think like that violence will always be just below the surface.

... and the majority of people in the Republic want to see Ireland reunited again. So who do we listen to? The wishes of the people of Ulster or the people of the Republic? I know! Why don't we listen to what the "majority of people on the island of Ireland" want... both from Ulster and the Republic.

Ireland should be grateful that we're nicer in the UK towards terrorists than the Americans are. Otherwise we'd have just gone to war on Ireland to teach them how terrorists should have been dealt with. That process of listening to the needs of the British people would take approximately a week.

I'm afraid there seems to be a misunderstanding here: I was referring to the "people of Ulster and the Republic"... I really don't understand how you can refer to "terrorists" in your reply. Or do you simply assume that both are one and the same?

Considering the fact that for hundreds of years, various English kings, queens and governments tried, and failed, to deal with Ireland I find it amusing that you believe the British people would only take "approximately a week" to deal with this problem. Quite amusing really... it was american money esp from new york that bank roled these scum all stopped after 9-11 didnt it not in my back yard mentality

[crobe]

@Baerboxer

You

You'd need to be incredibly dumb to actually believe violence could win over the long term. It never has and many of those who live by the sword die by it. Thatcher, I think, despised the IRA for the cowardly murders of people including her friend the WW2 hero Airey Neave, But she realized the the IRA, INLA, UDA, UVF and UFF were not the entire population. You can't strife for a fair and just society in the UK and leave out Ulster.

Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley saw this, and were able to put the past aside and work hard together to achieve real progress. Dinosaurs like Adams were sidelined.

Do you know of any politician who isn't two (or more when necessary) faced?

Me

The IRA didn't murder Airey Neave, that was the INLA.

Adams hasn't been sidelined and is still a leading figure in the movement to unite Eire after the unilateral partition of it by the English, thankfully a peaceful movement.

Thatcher was one of the most despicable politicians of the recent past. All politicians lie I agree but her lies destroyed communities.

However that all said I agree with your condemnation of violence.

It is never a solution.

Thatcher was a politician I will never forgive but she wasn't stupid and realised that violence had failed.

All sides including the govt have blood on their hands because of the violence perpetrated by the paramilitary groups. All of them.

That is past.

A treaty was signed.

Peace has been achieved.

We all need to move on.

Was it the INLA who murdered Neave? They claimed responsibility although other theories exist. Anyway he was murdered, probably by Irish terrorists which I'm sure Mrs Thatcher would have noted.

You may view Thatcher how you want to, from an Irish perspective, but she took over a UK that had become the sick man of Europe being completely <deleted> up by trades unions that had been infiltrated by the extreme left. She was the medicine the UK needed at that time, however unpalatable that may have been. She was democratically elected, the longest serving PM of the 20th century and the only woman to hold that office. So, many did not support your view. Like many, she arguable went too far in the other direction.

Violence creates more violence as a response, which creates more violence. A vicious cycle. Once someone becomes embroiled it's hard to break out of. Adams still spouts the old rhetoric. He's held in check, and pushed south of the border. Understandable. McGuiness, has the intelligence and honesty to admit the wrong doings, on all sides, of the past and expresses correctly how things that seemed right at the time, can be seen to be so wrong later.

A deal was done, an agreement signed. There are dissidents and criminals hiding under political banners who still need dealing with. This warrant jumper is possibly an example. Peace anywhere is fragile - just look at how quickly violence has erupted all around the world.

One poster on this thread supports the idea of political violence, and even advocates it in support of a united Ireland, even though the majority in Ulster want to remain part of the UK. Whilst people think like that violence will always be just below the surface.

... and the majority of people in the Republic want to see Ireland reunited again. So who do we listen to? The wishes of the people of Ulster or the people of the Republic? I know! Why don't we listen to what the "majority of people on the island of Ireland" want... both from Ulster and the Republic.

But if Ireland were a united country would it let the north have a referendum on independence as we have just see with Scotland - or are they not as democratic as the British?

[ATF]

He's probably in one of the Irish Pubs having a 99 Baht breakfast.

[neverdie]

He's probably in one of the Irish Pubs having a 99 Baht breakfast.

Another victim of the relentless scam .... No doubt.

[snorkster]

I think we all should refrain from inflammatory statements about what is going on in Northern Ireland and try to just objectively evaluate the history and current situation and try to work towards peace, as the communities in the North have been trying to do.

Edited January 7, 2015 by snorkster

[The manic]

The problem is that the English can't remember what the Irish can't forget.

[jkenn]

It has always been interesting to me how people reflexively say "terrorist, terrorist" when they hear of the IRA, but don't say similar things about the British government. If there is a national flag backing up a gun, it makes a moral difference? The british government was conducting extra-judicial murder in the north of Ireland throughout the troubles, just killing people they wanted dead, there are BBC documentaries about this. Is this not terrorism? They also assisted loyalist paramilitaries with intelligence information and hit lists of people they wanted dead, whom the loyalists killed for them. These loyalist organizations were allowed to remain legal and operate openly (not admitting what they were doing publicly, but everyone knew this). The BBC to its credit has made a number of fairly open minded and even handed documentaries about the troubles which document these things.

When people simply say "The majority of people in the North of Ireland want to be in the UK." and think it settles things, this misses a lot of the history and the legitimate grievances of the native Irish in the north. Britain, using physical force/military violence, settled people in Ireland, particularly the north, in order to extract Ireland's wealth and productive capacity and subject the Irish to being serfs. During the great potato famine Ireland was actually a huge exporter of food products - transported from British-owned farms worked by Irish serfs/slaves essentially, with armed military guards transporting the food products so the starving local people could not get a hold of any.

The bottom line is the British populated the north with their settlers, and established economic and social systems where the British immigrant/settler population was superior to the native Irish, systems which have continued to the present day, though improved by the Good Friday agreement. The Irish were shut out of good jobs, shut out of government, shut out of the police forces. The police forces were little more than loyalist thugs, in many cases. The provisional IRA HAD to serve as a local police force in the catholic communities, because the official police were not only not doing their job but were actively antagonistic to catholic communities.

The grievances of the native Irish in the north during the period of the troubles were very grave. The electoral system in Northern Ireland was designed to shut the native Irish out of the system entirely. The system was not "One person, one vote", but rather, votes were allocated only to property owners. Each owner of a home was allowed one vote. The owner of the home exercised the vote, the others living there (children, wives, etc.) did not vote. This dramatically favored the Loyalist community, who historically have been the property owners because the British military made them the property owners, through military violence. Also, business owners were allowed additional votes. This also favored the loyalist communities, who owned the capital and the businesses since British military domination and violence put them in that position.

This sounds unbelievable to us today, but this was the system in the second half of the last century that was used to keep the Irish under foot. Districts were also heavily gerrymandered, guaranteeing loyalist majorities in all bodies of government, even in areas which were native Irish-majority. Plus, "winner-takes-all" policies were used to completely shut out the Irish from government, job opportunities, service on the police forces, etc. It was an atrocious civil rights situation.

Most Irish did try peaceful protest initially to try to change things. The British reaction to this was responsible for the rise of the IRA in the period of the troubles. The IRA had dwindled down to almost disappearing by the 1960s. They were essentially vanished, for all practical purposes. What happened, why did they come roaring back?

The response of the British to peaceful Irish protest is what happened - internment, massacre of peaceful protesters, refusal to implement effective policing for Catholic communities, jury-free trials placing Irish republicans in prisons where they were tortured and beaten, the gross indifference of Thatcher to the hunger strikers, most of them convicted only of being members of the IRA, and by courts run by the British with no juries - who had legitimate complaints about how they were being beaten and tortured in prison, etc., were the major forces promoting recruitment to the IRA during this time. When the Irish tried peaceful protest, the british military massacred them, on bloody sunday, and continued a policy of extensive extrajudicial murder which has been thoroughly documented by the BBC and others. The British government essentially gave the native Irish of the north two choices - stay down with our boots on your necks, or join the IRA. The situation is a lot more complex than "Terrorizers" versus "British democracy". The bottom line is the history of British cruelty and occupation has placed all the people who now live in the north in a very difficult situation.

When finally the British government decided to stop responding to the situation with escalating extrajudicial violence, and serious efforts were made to address the legitimate grievances of the native Irish in the north, culminating in the Good Friday agreement, then the situation improved, and the PIRA agreed to disarm and disband.

Hopefully the peace can last. The way forward involves an understanding of the actual history of the region, and understanding of how British policy and brutality over the centuries has placed both sides in the North - both the native Irish and those who are descended from the settlers sent by Britain to exploit Ireland a few hundred years ago - in a difficult situation, and hopefully commitment by all to addressing the legitimate grievances and needs of all parties can lead to a lasting peace for everyone. We dont need name calling, just honest analysis of history and the present, and a committment to finding a better way.

[DaveinAsia]

It has always been interesting to me how people reflexively say "terrorist, terrorist" when they hear of the IRA, but don't say similar things about the British government. If there is a national flag backing up a gun, it makes a moral difference? The british government was conducting extra-judicial murder in the north of Ireland throughout the troubles, just killing people they wanted dead, there are BBC documentaries about this. Is this not terrorism? They also assisted loyalist paramilitaries with intelligence information and hit lists of people they wanted dead, whom the loyalists killed for them. These loyalist organizations were allowed to remain legal and operate openly (not admitting what they were doing publicly, but everyone knew this). The BBC to its credit has made a number of fairly open minded and even handed documentaries about the troubles which document these things.

When people simply say "The majority of people in the North of Ireland want to be in the UK." and think it settles things, this misses a lot of the history and the legitimate grievances of the native Irish in the north. Britain, using physical force/military violence, settled people in Ireland, particularly the north, in order to extract Ireland's wealth and productive capacity and subject the Irish to being serfs. During the great potato famine Ireland was actually a huge exporter of food products - transported from British-owned farms worked by Irish serfs/slaves essentially, with armed military guards transporting the food products so the starving local people could not get a hold of any.

The bottom line is the British populated the north with their settlers, and established economic and social systems where the British immigrant/settler population was superior to the native Irish, systems which have continued to the present day, though improved by the Good Friday agreement. The Irish were shut out of good jobs, shut out of government, shut out of the police forces. The police forces were little more than loyalist thugs, in many cases. The provisional IRA HAD to serve as a local police force in the catholic communities, because the official police were not only not doing their job but were actively antagonistic to catholic communities.

The grievances of the native Irish in the north during the period of the troubles were very grave. The electoral system in Northern Ireland was designed to shut the native Irish out of the system entirely. The system was not "One person, one vote", but rather, votes were allocated only to property owners. Each owner of a home was allowed one vote. The owner of the home exercised the vote, the others living there (children, wives, etc.) did not vote. This dramatically favored the Loyalist community, who historically have been the property owners because the British military made them the property owners, through military violence. Also, business owners were allowed additional votes. This also favored the loyalist communities, who owned the capital and the businesses since British military domination and violence put them in that position.

This sounds unbelievable to us today, but this was the system in the second half of the last century that was used to keep the Irish under foot. Districts were also heavily gerrymandered, guaranteeing loyalist majorities in all bodies of government, even in areas which were native Irish-majority. Plus, "winner-takes-all" policies were used to completely shut out the Irish from government, job opportunities, service on the police forces, etc. It was an atrocious civil rights situation.

Most Irish did try peaceful protest initially to try to change things. The British reaction to this was responsible for the rise of the IRA in the period of the troubles. The IRA had dwindled down to almost disappearing by the 1960s. They were essentially vanished, for all practical purposes. What happened, why did they come roaring back?

The response of the British to peaceful Irish protest is what happened - internment, massacre of peaceful protesters, refusal to implement effective policing for Catholic communities, jury-free trials placing Irish republicans in prisons where they were tortured and beaten, the gross indifference of Thatcher to the hunger strikers, most of them convicted only of being members of the IRA, and by courts run by the British with no juries - who had legitimate complaints about how they were being beaten and tortured in prison, etc., were the major forces promoting recruitment to the IRA during this time. When the Irish tried peaceful protest, the british military massacred them, on bloody sunday, and continued a policy of extensive extrajudicial murder which has been thoroughly documented by the BBC and others. The British government essentially gave the native Irish of the north two choices - stay down with our boots on your necks, or join the IRA. The situation is a lot more complex than "Terrorizers" versus "British democracy". The bottom line is the history of British cruelty and occupation has placed all the people who now live in the north in a very difficult situation.

When finally the British government decided to stop responding to the situation with escalating extrajudicial violence, and serious efforts were made to address the legitimate grievances of the native Irish in the north, culminating in the Good Friday agreement, then the situation improved, and the PIRA agreed to disarm and disband.

Hopefully the peace can last. The way forward involves an understanding of the actual history of the region, and understanding of how British policy and brutality over the centuries has placed both sides in the North - both the native Irish and those who are descended from the settlers sent by Britain to exploit Ireland a few hundred years ago - in a difficult situation, and hopefully commitment by all to addressing the legitimate grievances and needs of all parties can lead to a lasting peace for everyone. We dont need name calling, just honest analysis of history and the present, and a committment to finding a better way.

The real history, thanks a million!

[IrishMick]

Lots of big talk here about dealing with so called IRA scum and what you would do with them. Why don't your bring this topic up with the next Irish man you meet and see what answer you get. There are plenty of Irish bars in Thailand where your bound to find a paddy. Go in and give it to the so called scum. And when your at it you might even find one of those jihadi scum who blew up your London buses. That would even be easier than finding an Irish man.

I saw a former UK Marine do just this one night to some 'Irish' prat (with a Manc accent (?) who claimed he was IRA) who'd been drunkenly spouting Anti-British crap for the best part of an hour in a British bar on Sukhumwit late one night until one lad had heard enough and invited the lad to take his nonsense out into the soi.

He maybe thought because most of the blokes in the pub were older than him they'd be intimidated by his cheap tattoos, bald head, fat gut and PHd in talking B*llocks.

He was called 'Mick' too funnily enough.....

Though He wasn't too keen to carry on the 'discussion' when invited out in the soi by this marine who would be joined by a few other rather pee'd off ex servicemen/Brits who'd been putting up with his drivel for a while; in fact; I rather fancy 'Mick' then did a pooh in his pants, paid his bill, ran off into the first cab he could grab so that somewhat undermines your silly post....

Maybe being an 'IRA terrorist' is this year's "I was in the SAS but can't talk about it...." trend of BS to hit the expat bars of Thailand for 2015.....?

You mean they waited hours until the guy was drunk and easy

[ThePlant]

The real history, thanks a million!

LOL. Written by a bog trotting 15 year old who seems to omit the IRA's cowardly random slaughter of innocent people, especially kids across the UK in the 70s and 80s or their bullying and intimidation of their own communities in Ireland during the same time period. What a crock of abysmally written monkey knackers (I'm guessing by a 15 year old Yank). A mod should kill that drivel......

You mean they waited hours until the guy was drunk and easy

And this Fenian 'hero' was trying his luck with a load of old men.....sounds about your limit pal....Was funny watching the sh*t switch from his gob to his legs as soon as the lad told him to step outside....

Edited January 9, 2015 by ThePlant

[Dumu Ali]

After raping and pillaging the planet playing Empire of scammers with bibles and losing all that was stolen except some little land. Arabs got freedom from the UK, Malaysia and Myandma got freedom so why dont the gingerbread men and leprechauns get freedom too? Irish guys can be real cool when they sober up. Stealing land from other countries is a direct violation of 10 commandments which shows a clear demonic stealing culture, do the right thing and stop stealing from other tribes and stop fighting like barbarians, stop exporting pedophilias and people will one day start to respect you. Confess on Thai Visa and God will start forgiving and learn how to repent for sins instead of taking on this macho talk and remember confession is good for the soul and that the truth should not make you deny and get hot nobby about this time to do restitution