How I lost $250,000 in Phuket.

[watcharacters]

I believe in "lazy portfolio" , detail available online: grap a few Vanguard ETF's, enjoy the low fees, diversification and very rarely needs rebalancing.

...and I don't have to worry Vanguard walks away with all my money.

I started when I retired in 2007, stocks ETF took a big hit in 2009 so i rebalanced by moving money from bond into stocks.

Since 2009 my portforlio has been going up every year, as of now every 2 dollars i invested is 3...I think the market has to go down 30-40% for me to lose money.

I did took about $300,000 to buy Berkshire Hathaway for fun, in short 2 years it has gone to

about $440,000, if I put it back into Vanguard Total Stocks I will be hit by a big tax bill.

I am sure alot of investors did alot better with other smart ways but I sleep very well.

TAKE for sure and good for you to share that.

[watcharacters]

The problem is that people become to greedy in thinking there return will great ... ' way above bank interest '

You can't con an honest man.

+1

[haybilly]

I believe in "lazy portfolio" , detail available online: grap a few Vanguard ETF's, enjoy the low fees, diversification and very rarely needs rebalancing.

...and I don't have to worry Vanguard walks away with all my money.

I started when I retired in 2007, stocks ETF took a big hit in 2009 so i rebalanced by moving money from bond into stocks.

Since 2009 my portforlio has been going up every year, as of now every 2 dollars i invested is 3...I think the market has to go down 30-40% for me to lose money.

I did took about $300,000 to buy Berkshire Hathaway for fun, in short 2 years it has gone to

about $440,000, if I put it back into Vanguard Total Stocks I will be hit by a big tax bill.

I am sure alot of investors did alot better with other smart ways but I sleep very well.

TAKE for sure and good for you to share that.

What exactly do you mean?

[watcharacters]

I believe in "lazy portfolio" , detail available online: grap a few Vanguard ETF's, enjoy the low fees, diversification and very rarely needs rebalancing.

...and I don't have to worry Vanguard walks away with all my money.

I started when I retired in 2007, stocks ETF took a big hit in 2009 so i rebalanced by moving money from bond into stocks.

Since 2009 my portforlio has been going up every year, as of now every 2 dollars i invested is 3...I think the market has to go down 30-40% for me to lose money.

I did took about $300,000 to buy Berkshire Hathaway for fun, in short 2 years it has gone to

about $440,000, if I put it back into Vanguard Total Stocks I will be hit by a big tax bill.

I am sure alot of investors did alot better with other smart ways but I sleep very well.

TAKE for sure and good for you to share that.

What exactly do you mean?

What?

[haybilly]

I said what does

"Take for sure and good for you to share that" mean?

No offense, I just don't understand what you are saying.

[haybilly]

Having re-read the article I assume that the "take"is correcting the guy in the quote? And that other than that you are agreeing in his recommendation? I am interested in checking out his Portfolio recommendation myself-that's why I was asking the question.

Edited January 1, 2015 by haybilly

[Asiantravel]

The P/E ratio of the S&P500 is at 18, which is no where near historical highs so I don't understand what you mean by 'astronomical valuations.'

There's no point in debating this on Thaivisa; the research can stand alone. If you want to talk doomsday scenarios read the book I suggested first and pm me.

" I don't understand what you mean by 'astronomical valuations."

this is what i mean.............

• The US stock markets are dangerously overvalued today, with trailing P/E ratios well above bull-slaying levels. After the last time this happened, stock prices were more than cut in half.
• So once again another cyclical bear is overdue, and it’s likely to be a doozy after such an incredible and artificial stock-market surge fomented by Fed manipulations.
• The Fed that created the conditions to spark such rampant overvaluations has been sidelined politically. So once the next serious stock-market selloff inevitably gets underway, there will be no backstop.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2757035-lofty-u-s-stock-markets-at-dangerous-topping-valuations

[Showbags]

The OP earned that money therefore he is going to make it again. The "people" who took it, well take and it's going to be taken.

What an awesome comment...

[Ludacris]

Ahh, another Seeking Alpha article that is predicting exactly what will happen to the markets in the future.

How about this one that came out just before Blackberry went on to lose almost 60% of its value over the next 5 months.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1505242-blackberry-a-successful-turnaround

Take every article you see in the media with a grain of salt.

Of course a correction may be coming, but what won't happen like you're predicting is a total meltdown of world's financial system for whatever reason, including excess debt.

A portfolio that is properly allocated to an investors acceptable level of risk will be just fine during any market correction, recession, or depression.

Another good book for you to read is 'One Up on Wall Street' by Peter Lynch. He puts the doomsday scenarios and what the media reports on a daily basis into perspective.

'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' like I mentioned earlier will also put things into perspective for you.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Ludacris

[tigerbeerz]

Sorry to hear of your problem, your still young healthy and capable of working and recovering some of the money you lost. Google Motley Fool and check out their US web site for alternative financial advice.

[krisb]

Geordie, Unfortunately,I too know the feeling very well.

Personally, I probably met one of the World's elitist crooks who scammed me Family/Friends for a load of money on a fake oil deal. It isn't greed as you've 'put it upon yourself' to proportionate blame. All, you was doing was trying to make more money on your investments. I may even write about the animal who screwed us one-day which was so well set-up, I would like to shake his hand before I did something I may regret.I truly pray you get over it and believe me- its ok for people to give advise after the main event. However, I too feel a mug and just put it down to experience. I wrote this a brief note (below) a while back.

IT TAKES A THIEF !! International Thief on a grand scale. This scum of the earth has absolutely no morals, a more wretched man you'll never meet. He needs jailed, shamed and punished for his crimes to society. He, being a complete parasite, that will never repent for his sins. This master of deception needs to be written about. If he played himself in a movie he'd 100% get an Oscar. I would love to meet up with him once again, this to shake his hand for having us over which can only be described as sheer brilliance and then strangle the B**tard !! We live and learn. Boy did I learn LOL !!

Any comments about me and Defamation - need express - would love to see him come out the woodwork considering his SCAMS are known Worldwide like a total con for $500,000,000 involving the Cook Islands and massive Frauds everywhere else.

He even had the audacity, to ask me to come work for him in Labuan - AFTER he stole €50,000 from a bank transaction for my Kids schooling in Phuket. I'm sorry for explaining about my own grief although - I really feel for you. Bad people everywhere but my experience was in Thailand too and your post brought it all back to me - with a Bang!!!

All the best my friend.

Dr Adnan Muhammad Al Atas.jpg

Just the look of that guy would have me run the other way.

[slipperylobster]

I actually am glad I already went through my life's earnings during the first six months of retirement. That was by choice. I just gave away everything I owned to my (older than I) wife. I considered I was buying "peace of mind". Actually, I never got over it. Now, 18 years later, I have finally reached the standard of living I wanted. All but one child grown up. Things look bright. I am a bit smarter, but have no wad of cash that I worry about. This year, I have a goal of saving $9000. In 3 years, I will have a little security for emergencies, and my social security will kick in. Looks like I will never invest in anything...ever. I used to play the stocks and had monthly purchases of Apple...while the stock was going up...but I was only buying partial shares, and the fees canceled out earnings. I broke even. It would have been tempting to borrow 10,000 and put it in...but I never did that. I don't miss the stress.

[watcharacters]

I actually am glad I already went through my life's earnings during the first six months of retirement. That was by choice. I just gave away everything I owned to my (older than I) wife. I considered I was buying "peace of mind". Actually, I never got over it. Now, 18 years later, I have finally reached the standard of living I wanted. All but one child grown up. Things look bright. I am a bit smarter, but have no wad of cash that I worry about. This year, I have a goal of saving $9000. In 3 years, I will have a little security for emergencies, and my social security will kick in. Looks like I will never invest in anything...ever. I used to play the stocks and had monthly purchases of Apple...while the stock was going up...but I was only buying partial shares, and the fees canceled out earnings. I broke even. It would have been tempting to borrow 10,000 and put it in...but I never did that. I don't miss the stress.

.

Notwithstanding the stress I think I would have from being without cash funds, I applaud your resolve and attitude.

Congratulations to you!

[mitsubishi]

True story and this definately happened to me in Thailand. Myself and 5 other farang investors were robbed of our collective investment. This amount was around 15 million baht. Our farang investment banker was murdered by his Thai gay lover. His death sentence came delivered via cockroach poison deposited in a can of ice cold Coca Cola. The Thai police ruled it a suicide immediately of course. As a group, we hired lawyers and a private investigator. They found evidence of murder, followed the missing money. The farang bankers Thai gaylover was now in complete control of all monies, funds, assets and computer records. The Thai police were informed... alas, nothing could be done. The gay lover was related, by blood, to the highest of high connections. Sit down and shut up. Case closed. Go away farangs. Forever.

Edited to say, that up to a year prior to the bankers murder, I was receiving regular deposits in my Thai bank account of 170,000 baht per month based on my initial investment. All told, after roi, I lost approximately 400,000 baht cash on the investment. I'll survive. Others weren't as lucky.

How long were you able to ride the dragon before it threw you off? 170,000 for 400,000 is insane! That's like an ROI 40%+

[mitsubishi]

I actually am glad I already went through my life's earnings during the first six months of retirement. That was by choice. I just gave away everything I owned to my (older than I) wife. I considered I was buying "peace of mind". Actually, I never got over it. Now, 18 years later, I have finally reached the standard of living I wanted. All but one child grown up. Things look bright. I am a bit smarter, but have no wad of cash that I worry about. This year, I have a goal of saving $9000. In 3 years, I will have a little security for emergencies, and my social security will kick in. Looks like I will never invest in anything...ever. I used to play the stocks and had monthly purchases of Apple...while the stock was going up...but I was only buying partial shares, and the fees canceled out earnings. I broke even. It would have been tempting to borrow 10,000 and put it in...but I never did that. I don't miss the stress.

.

Notwithstanding the stress I think I would have from being without cash funds, I applaud your resolve and attitude.

Congratulations to you!

Sounds like Financial Roulette on a savings scale! The chamber has 5 bullets with a 6th empty. You clicked the 6th chamber. For others it tends to be chamber 1 - 5.

[The manic]

P2P banking may be an option as part of a diversified portfolio.

[Asiantravel]

Hey Geordie don't feel too bad about your situation because unbelievable as it might sound, as many as 2,000 individuals in the U.K. lost as much as $230,000 each when they gave their money to this British guy who is now languishing in a Cambodian prison awaiting his trial. fraud worth more than $54 million!!

But it must be sheer poetry to those that lost their money to see a picture of him now in an orange prison jumpsuit in Cambodia. (See second link). It's interesting that he was investigated by the U.K.’s Serious Fraud Office (SFO) and it seems they put the pressure on the law authorities in Cambodia to arrest him.

https://www.cambodiadaily.com/archives/british-businessman-arrested-over-alleged-land-fraud-15882/

https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/fraud-trial-of-british-man-delayed-for-third-time-74797/

Edited January 1, 2015 by Asiantravel

[darrendsd]

Fake post

Guess you didn't actually read the OP's story before you posted that rubbish?

[Sirpia]

What happened to virtues like integrity, honesty and honour?

Alai wa?

[Asiantravel]

Ahh, another Seeking Alpha article that is predicting exactly what will happen to the markets in the future.

How about this one that came out just before Blackberry went on to lose almost 60% of its value over the next 5 months.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1505242-blackberry-a-successful-turnaround

Take every article you see in the media with a grain of salt.

Of course a correction may be coming, but what won't happen like you're predicting is a total meltdown of world's financial system for whatever reason, including excess debt.

A portfolio that is properly allocated to an investors acceptable level of risk will be just fine during any market correction, recession, or depression.

Another good book for you to read is 'One Up on Wall Street' by Peter Lynch. He puts the doomsday scenarios and what the media reports on a daily basis into perspective.

'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' like I mentioned earlier will also put things into perspective for you.

ha ha ! You keep going on about that book but you should read Seth Klarman's book “ Margin Of Safety “ which he wrote decades ago and currently sells on Amazon for $3,600 per copy.

Seth Klarman is a billionaire and CEO & President of the Baupost Group. How come he and many other professional investors like Stanley Druckenmiller refunded the money to their clients, ages ago because of the impending risks. The market now mainly comprises amateurs. Like I said the stock market is now just a Ponzi and all the professional players are out.

Seth Klarmans infamous quote

“ If the economy is so fragile that the government cannot allow failure, then we are indeed close to collapse “

Edited January 1, 2015 by Asiantravel

[ExpatJ]

OP, your story is truly heartbreaking, especially since you played it safe your entire working life with your savings.

It must have taken a lot of soul searching to publicly post it so that others won't make the same mistakes.

I really believe that investing and portfolio management/allocation should be taught in every high school. Since you had most of your money in the bank for such a long time you most likely didn't have a lot of investment experience before taking the plunge. If I can take the lesson you're trying to convey here one step further it would be that everyone should learn the in's and out's about proper portfolio allocation before making a single investment and how it should change over a lifetime to manage risk. Foreign & domestic equities, bonds, and possibly REITS along with maybe a bit of gold and other commodities should make the core of any portfolio (hopefully diversified using indexed ETF's or mutual funds) with more than one major brokerage.

I know lots of people have lost money in the stock market with speculative and/or single company stocks or private funds. The reality of risk in the stock market for a properly allocated and diversified portfolio for someone close to retirement is that it would have regained all of it's value in just a few years even after 2008.

A fund like the one you invested in would be classified as a speculative-alternative investment and should be limited to 2-3% of a portfolio. Studies have shown you need to invest in at least 30 stocks to almost eliminate the risk from any one stock or investment- how many court cases was the fund going to be 'investing' in? I also don't understand how the initial capital could be protected since if a court case is lost the money paid to the lawyers is not refunded, and I highly doubt any insurance company would insure against losing a court case. I have no idea what kind of hedge could have been used, and the brochures you saw only said they were 'sophisticated' which raises red flags.

I'm not trying to come across as "I told you so" and if this post helps just one person it's worth it.

The best book ever written on the stock market and investing in my opinion is "A Random Walk Down Wall Street" by Malkiel.

Oh here we go-it didn't take long for the stock market apologists to come out, implying even surreptitiously that investing in stocks and shares in January 2015 is less risky?

Saying “the reality of risk in the stock market for a properly allocated and diversified portfolio for someone close to retirement is that it would have regained all of it's value in just a few years even after 2008 “ is rubbish because the stock market would never have recovered at all unless the governments pumped trillions of dollars in the form of QE. Where are the economic fundamentals today to support today's astronomic valuations when people's real incomes all around the world have fallen dramatically while debt is skyrocketing? Even UK Prime Minister David Cameron warned a couple of months ago the conditions are ripe for yet another global financial crisis. if you want to define Ponzi - it's the world's stock markets in 2015.

Japan has tried every trick in the book to revive its moribund economy and yet, after 25 years it is still in a coma. If you had invested even in the bluest of blue chip stocks in Japan in 1990 when the index was over 35,000 you would have lost over half of your portfolio, which has never even recovered in 25 years (see graph below)

As long as you are not proposing to keep your money in a bank instead- where in UK now with 4 % inflation and 1% interest rates- you lose 3 % of your savings every year!

[bobthomas]

Lots and lots of boiler room operations here.

Mostly fronted by Farangs

Beware!

b

[ldnguy]

You found out the hard way not to trust anyone in Thailand,

especially when money or property is involved,just hope you

are able to get back on your feet again,it would also be nice

if you could get some justice,but that rarely happens.

regards Worgeordie

I don't think this is really anything to do with Thailand. IT's just a standard ponzi scam that happens all over the world. OP just happened to be in Thailand, but could have happened anywhere.

There are plenty of people I trust in Thailand. I base my trust on individuals not nationalities. Some of the biggest financial scams are in the USA. I still trust many Americans as well. The people I don't trust are those that offer too good to be true schemes.

"I don't think this is really anything to do with Thailand. IT's just a standard ponzi scam that happens all over the world. OP just happened to be in Thailand, but could have happened anywhere"

Of course it is to do with Thailand,that's where it happened,ponzi schemes are known worldwide,and in many Countries are illegal.If a countries policy is to bury it's head in the sand,where else do people who have been scammed attempt to get their money back?

You think if it's illegal that people will stop doing it? Don't make me laugh. The biggest ponzi scheme ever was in USA. That it was illegal didn't matter to Madoff.

There are plenty of trustworthy people in Thailand. If you don't know any, then I suggest you get the hell out of the country quickly. Why would anyone want to live in a country where they think no-one can be trusted. I just can't get my head around why some people think Thailand is so bad but still hang around. I'd be on the first plane out if I felt that way about any country I lived in.

Edited January 1, 2015 by ldnguy

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

These people should be strung up in a public square. Or let loose in a forest and hunted down like animals. Truly despicable individuals.

It's very hard to not agree with this. Always a conflict between fighting these kinds of feelings and maintaining inner peace.

[rlopes]

Thank you for having courage to expose these people. You might help others with it.

[JetsetBkk]

Rule Number 1: Never ever take 'advice' from slimy b4st4rds in suits.

Nonsense. I've been living here for over a decade spending over a million baht per year and my net worth is the same as when I came - all thanks to my Financial Adviser (who wears very nice suits).

It's up to you to check out your advisor.

[nelson bunker]

Geordie, Unfortunately,I too know the feeling very well.

Personally, I probably met one of the World's elitist crooks who scammed me Family/Friends for a load of money on a fake oil deal. It isn't greed as you've 'put it upon yourself' to proportionate blame. All, you was doing was trying to make more money on your investments. I may even write about the animal who screwed us one-day which was so well set-up, I would like to shake his hand before I did something I may regret.I truly pray you get over it and believe me- its ok for people to give advise after the main event. However, I too feel a mug and just put it down to experience. I wrote this a brief note (below) a while back.

IT TAKES A THIEF !! International Thief on a grand scale. This scum of the earth has absolutely no morals, a more wretched man you'll never meet. He needs jailed, shamed and punished for his crimes to society. He, being a complete parasite, that will never repent for his sins. This master of deception needs to be written about. If he played himself in a movie he'd 100% get an Oscar. I would love to meet up with him once again, this to shake his hand for having us over which can only be described as sheer brilliance and then strangle the B**tard !! We live and learn. Boy did I learn LOL !!

Any comments about me and Defamation - need express - would love to see him come out the woodwork considering his SCAMS are known Worldwide like a total con for $500,000,000 involving the Cook Islands and massive Frauds everywhere else.

He even had the audacity, to ask me to come work for him in Labuan - AFTER he stole €50,000 from a bank transaction for my Kids schooling in Phuket. I'm sorry for explaining about my own grief although - I really feel for you. Bad people everywhere but my experience was in Thailand too and your post brought it all back to me - with a Bang!!!

All the best my friend.

Dr Adnan Muhammad Al Atas.jpg

Just the look of that guy would have me run the other way.

Only the name would have me running...

[Felt 35]

Sorry to hear about your financial loss and really hope you can recover and enjoying your retirement.

Allow me to ask if you know if this financial advisor mentioned in your story still have address in Phuket and still are active near a swimming pool?

Thanks

Felt.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Felt 35

[MAJIC]

You found out the hard way not to trust anyone in Thailand,

especially when money or property is involved,just hope you

are able to get back on your feet again,it would also be nice

if you could get some justice,but that rarely happens.

regards Worgeordie

I don't think this is really anything to do with Thailand. IT's just a standard ponzi scam that happens all over the world. OP just happened to be in Thailand, but could have happened anywhere.

There are plenty of people I trust in Thailand. I base my trust on individuals not nationalities. Some of the biggest financial scams are in the USA. I still trust many Americans as well. The people I don't trust are those that offer too good to be true schemes.

"I don't think this is really anything to do with Thailand. IT's just a standard ponzi scam that happens all over the world. OP just happened to be in Thailand, but could have happened anywhere"

Of course it is to do with Thailand,that's where it happened,ponzi schemes are known worldwide,and in many Countries are illegal.If a countries policy is to bury it's head in the sand,where else do people who have been scammed attempt to get their money back?

You think if it's illegal that people will stop doing it? Don't make me laugh. The biggest ponzi scheme ever was in USA. That it was illegal didn't matter to Madoff.

There are plenty of trustworthy people in Thailand. If you don't know any, then I suggest you get the hell out of the country quickly. Why would anyone want to live in a country where they think no-one can be trusted. I just can't get my head around why some people think Thailand is so bad but still hang around. I'd be on the first plane out if I felt that way about any country I lived in.

Bernie Madoff ran the biggest Ponzi scam in history, he is now languishing in prison for a very long time,that's the whole point of making it illegal,when they are caught they pay dearly.

Read my comment again,and you find it's nothing to do with your accusations!

[pistachios]

"There is no such thing as a free lunch" and "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" are common finance sayings that are pretty much sufficient to avoid ruin if understood.

OP's story is quite sad but he wasn't aware of those, a bit unfortunate when you want to invest your life savings.