Tep Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) And actually the quote about being 'anti-immigrant' is also complete BS!Personally, I'm only anti-immigrant when their culture, as with medieval-like Islam, is plainly incompatible with western culture. This point of view is being proven correct by numerous recent events perpetrated by muslims. This means I'm against the Islamification of Europe. In your eyes, that makes me racist and a bigot. https://www.change.org/p/u-s-house-of-representatives-ban-the-religious-status-of-islam-in-america-and-close-the-jihad-training-camps-for-good?tk=gXutf5d-hx0JBaKWNGuKypZER7FVvfPeAnfHYklPC0U&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_message_notice Ok, being an internet forum, I can only take you at face value and on the basis of what you post. You say that you are not anti-immigrant but are anti-Islam. Very well, I will stop calling you anti-immigrant. However the bluntness of the way you express your position creates some doubt in me on this. I have seen you apply your position to non-whites in the US in other threads. I too object to the ideology of islam and its inconsistency with western liberalism and humanism. I also object to other religions and am atheist. I try, however, to avoid stereotyping any person who may hold a belief or have some ethnicity or some gender identification with which I am uncomfortable or disagree. I have signed many petitions on change.org. I do not agree with the petition you quote. I would sign a petition that called for the removal of tax exempt status of all religious and affiliated bodies including the scientologists and similar cults in the US. You cannot suppress ideas, including horrible ideas as are many contained within Islam. Any attempt will backfire. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. So I will stop calling your racist and anti-immigrant bigot but you probably need to own the term islamophobe. I will take you on face value but again, your tread is quite heavy and sometimes it is hard to distinguish things. Edited January 8, 2015 by Tep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhufton Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 How did all those police let them get away in a car, Horatio would never have let that happen. CSI At the moment i am watching the French news and they are trying to make up some sort of oh dear it wastnt us situation. They never ever admit that they are wrong. They sat there sniping an empty apartment. So crap. That was my thinking, broad daylight in the centre of Paris, how the hell did they get away? Were there only two policemen in central Paris? No road blocks, police helicoptors, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sky News reporting another policeman has died from the shooting this morning. One arrest of a man 53 years old not at this scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakboong Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 At the Nurnberg Trials, a certain Julius Streicher was hung as a war criminal. His indictment included no charge of murder. The judgment read, in part: " In his speeches and articles, week after week, month after month, he infected the German mind with the virus of anti-Semitism, and incited the German people to active persecution." There is no question that Streicher's anti Semitism was an abomination. But either his hanging was also an abomination, or what these terrorists did in Paris was justified. I assure you, I don't think the latter to be the case. What the terrorists did was wrong, full stop. What the French magazine wrote or drew was also wrong, full stop. While their sins are hardly equal, and the cartoonists harsh punishment completely undeserved, we should not relegate punishment of incitement only to our defeated enemies. interesting comparison. So much for freedom of the press. Herr Striecher had the lowest IQ of all the defendents and his paper, "Der Sturmer" was some pretty sick stuff but we either have freedom of the press or we don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thai at Heart Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 At the Nurnberg Trials, a certain Julius Streicher was hung as a war criminal. His indictment included no charge of murder. The judgment read, in part: " In his speeches and articles, week after week, month after month, he infected the German mind with the virus of anti-Semitism, and incited the German people to active persecution." There is no question that Streicher's anti Semitism was an abomination. But either his hanging was also an abomination, or what these terrorists did in Paris was justified. I assure you, I don't think the latter to be the case. What the terrorists did was wrong, full stop. What the French magazine wrote or drew was also wrong, full stop. While their sins are hardly equal, and the cartoonists harsh punishment completely undeserved, we should not relegate punishment of incitement only to our defeated enemies. interesting comparison. So much for freedom of the press. Herr Striecher had the lowest IQ of all the defendents and his paper, "Der Sturmer" was some pretty sick stuff but we either have freedom of the press or we don't There is a big difference between hate speech and satire........ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sky news showing French special forces gearing up for something. Heavy armed and heavy protection. Dozens of officers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i claudius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Western governments you've been warned, the ppl will vote you out and will place others in power that will deal with situations like this with an iron fist. I think we're getting close to the boiling point as it wouldn't surprise me if militia starts to avenge these ever so frequent attacks. I truly fear this but what's in place now is not working. This is so 1930's.... History has a way of repeating itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post i claudius Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 Micmichd said 'IF you doubt farangs are a remarkable minority in Thailand you only have to come to Pattaya" this was a very stupid comparison ,Pattaya is a holiday destination ,please feel free to go to any holiday destination in the world and count the foreigners heads ,i believe many British people like The costa del Sol also Egypt and the pyramids had a lot of westerners there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ggold Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 And actually the quote about being 'anti-immigrant' is also complete BS!Personally, I'm only anti-immigrant when their culture, as with medieval-like Islam, is plainly incompatible with western culture. This point of view is being proven correct by numerous recent events perpetrated by muslims. This means I'm against the Islamification of Europe. In your eyes, that makes me racist and a bigot. https://www.change.org/p/u-s-house-of-representatives-ban-the-religious-status-of-islam-in-america-and-close-the-jihad-training-camps-for-good?tk=gXutf5d-hx0JBaKWNGuKypZER7FVvfPeAnfHYklPC0U&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_message_notice Ok, being an internet forum, I can only take you at face value and on the basis of what you post. You say that you are not anti-immigrant but are anti-Islam. Very well, I will stop calling you anti-immigrant. However the bluntness of the way you express your position creates some doubt in me on this. I have seen you apply your position to non-whites in the US in other threads. I too object to the ideology of islam and its inconsistency with western liberalism and humanism. I also object to other religions and am atheist. I try, however, to avoid stereotyping any person who may hold a belief or have some ethnicity or some gender identification with which I am uncomfortable or disagree. I have signed many petitions on change.org. I do not agree with the petition you quote. I would sign a petition that called for the removal of tax exempt status of all religious and affiliated bodies including the scientologists and similar cults in the US. You cannot suppress ideas, including horrible ideas as are many contained within Islam. Any attempt will backfire. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. So I will stop calling your racist and anti-immigrant bigot but you probably need to own the term islamophobe. I will take you on face value but again, your tread is quite heavy and sometimes it is hard to distinguish things. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. I would totally agree with you but, What is the situation where those you are being tolerant to, refuse to be tolerant to you, and you're institutions, Laws and practices? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 BBC - Police reports has them heading North East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And actually the quote about being 'anti-immigrant' is also complete BS!Personally, I'm only anti-immigrant when their culture, as with medieval-like Islam, is plainly incompatible with western culture. This point of view is being proven correct by numerous recent events perpetrated by muslims. This means I'm against the Islamification of Europe. In your eyes, that makes me racist and a bigot. https://www.change.org/p/u-s-house-of-representatives-ban-the-religious-status-of-islam-in-america-and-close-the-jihad-training-camps-for-good?tk=gXutf5d-hx0JBaKWNGuKypZER7FVvfPeAnfHYklPC0U&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_message_notice Ok, being an internet forum, I can only take you at face value and on the basis of what you post. You say that you are not anti-immigrant but are anti-Islam. Very well, I will stop calling you anti-immigrant. However the bluntness of the way you express your position creates some doubt in me on this. I have seen you apply your position to non-whites in the US in other threads. I too object to the ideology of islam and its inconsistency with western liberalism and humanism. I also object to other religions and am atheist. I try, however, to avoid stereotyping any person who may hold a belief or have some ethnicity or some gender identification with which I am uncomfortable or disagree. I have signed many petitions on change.org. I do not agree with the petition you quote. I would sign a petition that called for the removal of tax exempt status of all religious and affiliated bodies including the scientologists and similar cults in the US. You cannot suppress ideas, including horrible ideas as are many contained within Islam. Any attempt will backfire. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. So I will stop calling your racist and anti-immigrant bigot but you probably need to own the term islamophobe. I will take you on face value but again, your tread is quite heavy and sometimes it is hard to distinguish things. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. I would totally agree with you but, What is the situation where those you are being tolerant to, refuse to be tolerant to you, and you're institutions, Laws and practices? We set example and open dialogue so with time,they will learn. Charb met the people who wanted to kill them before. He told them : "Instead of trying to kill me because I make fun of you in my newspaper, why don't you create YOUR own paper and male fun of US?" RIP Charb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTee Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyone else find it odd that the attackers made one mistake : Leaving an ID card behind?who goes on a terrorist mission with an ID card? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyone else find it odd that the attackers made one mistake : Leaving an ID card behind? who goes on a terrorist mission with an ID card? I can think of a lot of reasons. But what are you suggesting ... they were actually intending to have brunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tep Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And actually the quote about being 'anti-immigrant' is also complete BS!Personally, I'm only anti-immigrant when their culture, as with medieval-like Islam, is plainly incompatible with western culture. This point of view is being proven correct by numerous recent events perpetrated by muslims. This means I'm against the Islamification of Europe. In your eyes, that makes me racist and a bigot. https://www.change.org/p/u-s-house-of-representatives-ban-the-religious-status-of-islam-in-america-and-close-the-jihad-training-camps-for-good?tk=gXutf5d-hx0JBaKWNGuKypZER7FVvfPeAnfHYklPC0U&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_message_notice Ok, being an internet forum, I can only take you at face value and on the basis of what you post. You say that you are not anti-immigrant but are anti-Islam. Very well, I will stop calling you anti-immigrant. However the bluntness of the way you express your position creates some doubt in me on this. I have seen you apply your position to non-whites in the US in other threads. I too object to the ideology of islam and its inconsistency with western liberalism and humanism. I also object to other religions and am atheist. I try, however, to avoid stereotyping any person who may hold a belief or have some ethnicity or some gender identification with which I am uncomfortable or disagree. I have signed many petitions on change.org. I do not agree with the petition you quote. I would sign a petition that called for the removal of tax exempt status of all religious and affiliated bodies including the scientologists and similar cults in the US. You cannot suppress ideas, including horrible ideas as are many contained within Islam. Any attempt will backfire. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. So I will stop calling your racist and anti-immigrant bigot but you probably need to own the term islamophobe. I will take you on face value but again, your tread is quite heavy and sometimes it is hard to distinguish things. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. I would totally agree with you but, What is the situation where those you are being tolerant to, refuse to be tolerant to you, and you're institutions, Laws and practices? There are plenty of options. Most of them take hard work. You can engage with them so they understand your point of view. If their intolerance results in criminal activity, you arrest, charge, try and convict them on a non discriminatory basis. You engage their children who have to fit in with others at school and become bi-national. this is what happens to all immigrant communities. The integration and acceptance of West Indian immigration to the UK post WWII required active government intervention and programs. Same as the integration of immigrants to Australia post WWII and post Vietnam war and now post Iraq. I would start by treating that person with respect and respecting their heritage and experience. You can then have the expectation of respect in return or work on engagement until it is achieved. I have worked as a public official. I have had to engage people who turn my stomach or hated everything I stood for. If you set achievable and clear objectives, it is possible. But you need the support of good institutions. I cannot be more specific because some of the examples are truly stomach turning and easily taken out of context. It is all very liberal and will undoubtedly turn the stomachs of the belligerent sort. But it has been shown to work. Carrots and Sticks. Worked in the past and will with the Muslims. The Charlie Habro cartoons are provocative. Some people argue that they caused this action. Many mainstream news agencies refuse to print them. I agree that they are provocative but believe that the artists have every right to express their opinion. For people to live according to our beliefs in a western liberal democracy, they have to accept that even though they may not like the content of the cartoon or of the speech. If they cannot, then they should not live in such places. I see a distinction between expressions of free speech and political thought through satirical cartoons and things like religious clothing or food practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keemapoot Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Will we see a Paris protest march against Islam rallies soon ? It is more than a march that is needed, maybe the Muslims should march against their own, then maybe the hate for them will not be so bad, but they are cowards to say or do anything against their own out of fear, yet the good out number the bad, and remaining silent only helps the bad This is really the huge problem that Islam faces, this silent (assent?) by the peaceful majority. I've seen the issue debated on Aljazeera among clerics and experts as well as panels of Middle East policy experts, and there never seems to be a groundswell of expressed disgust by the majority that results in actions that would be seen to exonerate those 99% or whatever figure you wish to quote. This remains the single most aggravating factor that causes all the rest of us to constantly form less favorable views after each successive incident. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyone else find it odd that the attackers made one mistake : Leaving an ID card behind? who goes on a terrorist mission with an ID card? I can think of a lot of reasons. But what are you suggesting ... they were actually intending to have brunch? It was not one of the gunmen's ID It was some random kid who happened to be at school at the time of events, so he gave himself to the police, and explain his all class can witness he was with them, now he 's cleared 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Charlie Habro cartoons are provocative. Some people argue that they caused this action. Many mainstream news agencies refuse to print them. That is a lot more about cowardice than any kind of ethics. The same news organizations that have refused to print them have featured some really disgusting art that made light of Christianity and Judaism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieH Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Will we see a Paris protest march against Islam rallies soon ? It is more than a march that is needed, maybe the Muslims should march against their own, then maybe the hate for them will not be so bad, but they are cowards to say or do anything against their own out of fear, yet the good out number the bad, and remaining silent only helps the bad cowards say hello: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/?utm_content=bufferedea9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer the maniacs who carried out this appalling murder are not "their own" by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1Str8 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 These people with their inferiority complex are a joke. They should have tried those automatic weapons on themselves. Allah Hotel lounge bar! Or whatever bar he calls himself these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Charlie Habro cartoons are provocative. Some people argue that they caused this action. Many mainstream news agencies refuse to print them. That is a lot more about cowardice than any kind of ethics. The same news organizations that have refused to print them have featured some really disgusting art that made light of Christianity and Judaism. This was exactly what Charlie was about : The right to blasphemy. They did it so we all could live in a society where we could say everything. Now some of this freedom is gone for ever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post H1w4yR1da Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I don't expect any attempt to respond to the substance of what I posted.What exactly did you post besides numerous personal attacks? Nothing really much to respond to. Just the usual "racist, bigot....blah blah..". You cannot suppress ideas, including horrible ideas as are many contained within Islam. Any attempt will backfire. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices. So I will stop calling your racist and anti-immigrant bigot but you probably need to own the term islamophobe. I will take you on face value but again, your tread is quite heavy and sometimes it is hard to distinguish things. Finally! A post I can reply to that doesn't need sifting through dozens of personal insults to work out what is being said.The problem with using 'tolerance and diversity' to combat radical Islam is that it isnt going to work with an ideology that HATES tolerance and diversity. Especially tolerance. Now we can all hold hands with 'moderate' muslims and sing Kumbaya, hoping the nasty guys in black will suddenly disappear into the woodwork. Reality attack needed. I don't think you can bargain with religious terrorists. The suggestion that we (the host country) can win them over by "more tolerance, more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices" is something I find rather insulting. You seem to have things backward. Sure, give them a fair shake, as they say, but it's up to the immigrants to adapt to the host culture. Not the other way round. Why should we change our culture to suit the immigrants? Just as Thailand shouldn't change to suit westerners. Of course there will always be racism and discrimination but at least try to assimilate. From what I've seen in the UK, racism and discrimination has seriously lessened against immigrants from the West Indies, India and East Asia because they've tried to accept the host countries culture. And in return, the UK has grown and developed in a positive way, obviously there are still some problems but I see things improving. This doesn't appear to be the case with Muslim immigrants which I believe to be down to the nature of Islam. Just see the Birmingham school takeovers and child grooming cases in Northern England as examples. As for me 'owning the term Islamophobe', I have no problem with that, though I'd disagree with the 'phobia' part. Infidel is more accurate. Edited January 8, 2015 by H1w4yR1da 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyone else find it odd that the attackers made one mistake : Leaving an ID card behind? who goes on a terrorist mission with an ID card? One with the ID card of someone else, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And actually the quote about being 'anti-immigrant' is also complete BS!Personally, I'm only anti-immigrant when their culture, as with medieval-like Islam, is plainly incompatible with western culture. This point of view is being proven correct by numerous recent events perpetrated by muslims.This means I'm against the Islamification of Europe.In your eyes, that makes me racist and a bigot.https://www.change.org/p/u-s-house-of-representatives-ban-the-religious-status-of-islam-in-america-and-close-the-jihad-training-camps-for-good?tk=gXutf5d-hx0JBaKWNGuKypZER7FVvfPeAnfHYklPC0U&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_message_notice Ok, being an internet forum, I can only take you at face value and on the basis of what you post. You say that you are not anti-immigrant but are anti-Islam. Very well, I will stop calling you anti-immigrant. However the bluntness of the way you express your position creates some doubt in me on this. I have seen you apply your position to non-whites in the US in other threads.I too object to the ideology of islam and its inconsistency with western liberalism and humanism. I also object to other religions and am atheist. I try, however, to avoid stereotyping any person who may hold a belief or have some ethnicity or some gender identification with which I am uncomfortable or disagree.I have signed many petitions on change.org. I do not agree with the petition you quote. I would sign a petition that called for the removal of tax exempt status of all religious and affiliated bodies including the scientologists and similar cults in the US. You cannot suppress ideas, including horrible ideas as are many contained within Islam. Any attempt will backfire. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices.So I will stop calling your racist and anti-immigrant bigot but you probably need to own the term islamophobe. I will take you on face value but again, your tread is quite heavy and sometimes it is hard to distinguish things. Here is where we will continue to disagree because I believe we win by more tolerance, by more diversity, by objective and non discriminatory institutions, laws and practices.I would totally agree with you but, What is the situation where those you are being tolerant to, refuse to be tolerant to you, and you're institutions, Laws and practices? There are plenty of options. Most of them take hard work. You can engage with them so they understand your point of view. If their intolerance results in criminal activity, you arrest, charge, try and convict them on a non discriminatory basis. You engage their children who have to fit in with others at school and become bi-national. this is what happens to all immigrant communities. The integration and acceptance of West Indian immigration to the UK post WWII required active government intervention and programs. Same as the integration of immigrants to Australia post WWII and post Vietnam war and now post Iraq.I would start by treating that person with respect and respecting their heritage and experience. You can then have the expectation of respect in return or work on engagement until it is achieved. I have worked as a public official. I have had to engage people who turn my stomach or hated everything I stood for. If you set achievable and clear objectives, it is possible. But you need the support of good institutions. I cannot be more specific because some of the examples are truly stomach turning and easily taken out of context.It is all very liberal and will undoubtedly turn the stomachs of the belligerent sort. But it has been shown to work. Carrots and Sticks. Worked in the past and will with the Muslims.The Charlie Habro cartoons are provocative. Some people argue that they caused this action. Many mainstream news agencies refuse to print them. I agree that they are provocative but believe that the artists have every right to express their opinion. For people to live according to our beliefs in a western liberal democracy, they have to accept that even though they may not like the content of the cartoon or of the speech. If they cannot, then they should not live in such places. I see a distinction between expressions of free speech and political thought through satirical cartoons and things like religious clothing or food practices. No one is forcing anyone to read anything. But someone demanding that they be respected by the barrel of a gun. That is the very essence of a bully and bullies should be stood up and one should not cower.That is the very essence of the human spirit.Engage them all u like, but I have no obligation to respect their views. As a human they are accorded the right to think what they like as am I. They have no right to force me to do or think anything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tep Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) The Charlie Habro cartoons are provocative. Some people argue that they caused this action. Many mainstream news agencies refuse to print them. That is a lot more about cowardice than any kind of ethics. The same news organizations that have refused to print them have featured some really disgusting art that made light of Christianity and Judaism. I agree with you but from their perspective what happened at Charlie Habro could happen to them. I tend to give the media a pass on this because to me the issue is not requiring all media publish such political speech but that it be available and certainly not censored. Charlie Habro has their own publication. Other political speech and satire are available on other media. If it came to pass that all such political speech and satire disappeared through fear, this would be a call to arms I think. On the mockery of other religions, you also have a point but the fact that some media organisations are scared of doing it with anti-Muslim satire should not result in self censorship on all satire. I think that some organisations will have to invest in and maintain more stringent security and protection. This chips away at the freedoms such speech represents and is a shame. Edited January 8, 2015 by Tep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Jokes don't kill people People who don't get jokes kill people Edited January 8, 2015 by Kitsune 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTee Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyone else find it odd that the attackers made one mistake : Leaving an ID card behind? who goes on a terrorist mission with an ID card? I can think of a lot of reasons. But what are you suggesting ... they were actually intending to have brunch? I am suggesting that I find it odd, in the extreme, that a well organized, professional, well armed attacker would take his ID card on a mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabhand Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Will we see a Paris protest march against Islam rallies soon ? It is more than a march that is needed, maybe the Muslims should march against their own, then maybe the hate for them will not be so bad, but they are cowards to say or do anything against their own out of fear, yet the good out number the bad, and remaining silent only helps the bad This is really the huge problem that Islam faces, this silent (assent?) by the peaceful majority. I've seen the issue debated on Aljazeera among clerics and experts as well as panels of Middle East policy experts, and there never seems to be a groundswell of expressed disgust by the majority that results in actions that would be seen to exonerate those 99% or whatever figure you wish to quote. This remains the single most aggravating factor that causes all the rest of us to constantly form less favorable views after each successive incident. I agree that the lack of 'expressed disgust by the majority' is a major concern in gaining a true understanding of the real feelings of the followers of Islam. My experience of moving to work in Egypt shortly after 9/11, and reports of well educated locals expressing delight at the actions of the hijackers, makes me think that the % of adherents of the Muslim faith that are truly disgusted by such actions is somewhat below the 99% level. I hope I am wrong, but I fear I am not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tep Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 No one is forcing anyone to read anything. But someone demanding that they be respected by the barrel of a gun. That is the very essence of a bully and bullies should be stood up and one should not cower. That is the very essence of the human spirit. Engage them all u like, but I have no obligation to respect their views. As a human they are accorded the right to think what they like as am I. They have no right to force me to do or think anything. I very much understand where you are coming from. I merely offer it as a strategy. One of many potential strategies. With more engagement, you probably get better at distinguishing between dialectic and personal opinion. You can test the limits of your antagonist's true thinking. Your responses to different types of intolerance can vary. I am not a trained negotiator. I have witnessed negotiators in action. Calmness and objectivity seem to be key. That is why I continue to object to the barrage of noise on these types of threads. It interferes with deliberate thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyone else find it odd that the attackers made one mistake : Leaving an ID card behind? who goes on a terrorist mission with an ID card? I can think of a lot of reasons. But what are you suggesting ... they were actually intending to have brunch? I am suggesting that I find it odd, in the extreme, that a well organized, professional, well armed attacker would take his ID card on a mission. They did not Get your facts straight The ID was from some other kid - the 19year old who went to the police to explain he was at school when it happened, hence his all class is his witness- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTee Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Anyone else find it odd that the attackers made one mistake : Leaving an ID card behind? who goes on a terrorist mission with an ID card? I can think of a lot of reasons. But what are you suggesting ... they were actually intending to have brunch? I am suggesting that I find it odd, in the extreme, that a well organized, professional, well armed attacker would take his ID card on a mission. They did not Get your facts straight The ID was from some other kid - the 19year old who went to the police to explain he was at school when it happened, hence his all class is his witness- So can you explain this Mr straight-facts The gunmen then escaped in a getaway car which was later abandoned and impounded by police. An identification card of one of the Kouachi brothers was left in the car, Before calling out others you may want to check your self pal! Edited January 8, 2015 by MrTee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now