PM wants world to accept the new Thai charter

[GerdT]

The PM said the government would invite legal specialists from Germany and France to share experiences about drafting their charters and how they manage after a coup. He spoke after a meeting of the five junta-appointed agencies.

He will not find a lot of legal experts in both countries that can recall the time their charters had been drafted and even fewer experts that have experiences on how to manage after a coup. In Germany after 1954 and with the establishment of the Bundeswehr in the early 1950's it was made sure that the military was an institution that had to uphold the laws of the current constitution. Military leaders could not express their political views in public using the papers, radio or TV and had to ask for permission before given an interview to the media and that still applies today. The soldiers were and are still called citizens in uniform (Bürger in Uniform) with the aspect on citizens and that their first duty was to uphold the laws of Germany. They also were not permitted to act within the German borders for policing or military actions and solely a force to defend Germany from external threats. Any order given by a military leader that would contradict the constitution would be unlawful and soldiers had and have a duty to disobey these kind of orders.

France is in a similar situation since the only potential coup in 1954 due to the Algeria war was prevented. The military in France is as in Germany subordinated to the political leadership and it doesn’t matter if that is a socialist, conservative etc Government and like their German counterpart has learned not to interfere in politics.

[arrowsdawdle]

"The new charter must be accepted by the international community"

If they don't accept it and tow the Junta's line, what are you going to do. Prayuth can't treat the International community like he treats the suppressed Thais. The international community are still allowed to think, analyse and form thier own opinions. The compulsory brainwashing and propoganda doesn't work and never will on the free.

The bottom line is that he tore up the one the international community and locals already accepted. The fact that he wrote the one he tore up means he went back on his word. Time for him to clean up his room and put his toys away.

[butch333]

there is a lot of work to do in thailand to restore the real democraty , to eradicate the corruption , stop the feodalism and enter in 21 century , PM do good work since now and some mmistakes too but i think that he realy do his best . he have to change the mentaly of the thai population and it ll take time , have to change all the administration and cut in the staff cause to much to much and no competence to do their work , if he use the 44 in the right and good way and allow the democratic elections when everything will be quite ok , i agree . if he allow the democratic elections now , nothing will change in thailand .

[farang1979]

Face. Palm. Thunderbirds are go!

[Oziex1]

If France and/or Germany had suffered a military coup then the leader of the coup would be tried for treason and democracy would be restored.

Yep, and we might have heard about it as well.

[GerdT]

"I want people to ask how they could cooperate, but no one asks such questions. They only ask when there will be an election," the PM said."I want people to ask how they could cooperate, but no one asks such questions. They only ask when there will be an election," the PM said.

By invoking the new article 44 there is no need to ask the people how they can cooperate because they are told daily via TV on all channels what they have to do to cooperate and the consequences what will happen to them if they fail to do so.

People in democracies seem to ask for elections if a government that has been elected or came to pass via back door deals looks like failing to achieve the objectives of their promises.

[2fishin2]

So his constitution and government mentors are limited to other countries which have experienced other coups? Guess countries like the US and GB who have long histories of governmental success arent good enough? Yup thainess at its best right here.

[klauskunkel]

"I want people to question their duties on how they can cooperate with the government,"

Ask not what your government can do for you, ask what you can do for your government...

Sorry JFK...

Ehem, Ehem... It is COUNTRY (Not Government). Ask not what your COUNTRY can do for you. That statement was devoid of political color as a Government - in the USA could either be Republican or Democrat).

I know that, Mr. Ehem, that is why I apologized to JFK...Just look below the quote and you should see: SORRY, JFK...

which is intended to show that the quote was altered to fit this particular situation and to subtly convey irony and sarcasm...maybe a bit too subtle?

[tracker1]

PM wants the world to accept the new charter would not have expected anything less !

[h90]

If France and/or Germany had suffered a military coup then the leader of the coup would be tried for treason and democracy would be restored.

But first of all Germany or France wouldn't have a government like Yingluck because a Thaksin would be tried and put into jail years ago, so there wouldn't be any need for a coup.

[GerdT]

So his constitution and government mentors are limited to other countries which have experienced other coups? Guess countries like the US and GB who have long histories of governmental success arent good enough? Yup thainess at its best right here.

What coups can you recall that have taken place in Germany or France and that succeeded after 1945?

Edited April 8, 2015 by GerdT

[Jai Dee]

One post referring to a dictatorship has been removed from this thread.

From the pinned topic in the News Forum:

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

[ginjag]

Just to note----Quote "the PM WANTS" quote " MUST be accepted, which is it to be because there is a difference, or was the second quote an attempt to get the anti PM brigade out ???

In all laws constitutions over centuries there are parts that are unpalatable, here on TVF some posters are on the band wagon interpreting as EVERYTHING unpalatable. true look at these posts on this topic. Amazing .

[richard10365]

I have mixed feelings...

Sure it's worrying about the power that article 44 allows, but that same power also allows for all of the red tape and bureaucracy to be side stepped in order to make meaningful changes in months rather than years or decades...

I look at many western countries and see that the road to 'meaningful democracy' was paved with Violent revolutions, civil wars, protests and uprisings.... And to be honest, if you asked me about a year ago, seemed this was the path that Thailand was heading as well.

So while I do not look through any rose tinted glasses and while I do look at article 44 with some trepidation and fear as to how it could be abused...

I also do have some amount of hope that it could allow for real changes in Thailand government and institutions that could greatly benefit Thai society and democracy in the long term.

So it will all come down to how things play out and how it is used, but personally I am willing to wait and see before I make any final judgements.

I hope the USA is not your example of meaningful democracy.

[Just1Voice]

And just what, "Pretty in Pink" & "I know everything" General/PM, will you do if the international community does NOT accept your military written, military inspired new "Constitution"? Will you have another of your famous temper tantrums? Will you blame all foreigners for being stupid because they don't understand "Thainess" (a synonym for Stupidity). Will you ban all foreign airlines from landing in Thailand?

Or will you realize that to the rest of the world, Thailand is nothing more than a small dot on the world map?

[jamesjohnsonthird]

there is a lot of work to do in thailand to restore the real democraty , to eradicate the corruption , stop the feodalism and enter in 21 century , PM do good work since now and some mmistakes too but i think that he realy do his best . he have to change the mentaly of the thai population and it ll take time , have to change all the administration and cut in the staff cause to much to much and no competence to do their work , if he use the 44 in the right and good way and allow the democratic elections when everything will be quite ok , i agree . if he allow the democratic elections now , nothing will change in thailand .

He is putting an end to feudalism?

Now that is funny.

[phoenixdoglover]

"Prayut said he was not worried about domestic acceptance of the new constitution...

Prayut cast doubt on people's level of understanding of the new constitution and democracy itself.

Asked whether the government will help people understand the constitution and the process of how it came to its final draft, Prayut replied the government was still discussing this matter.

The PM was also asked whether the government is considering holding a referendum on the new charter, but Prayut now was not the time to consider that issue."

What?

Anybody remember Joe Isuzu?

[donmuang37]

Hmm... I wonder why he won't be asking the United States what they do after a coup d'état? Oh, that's right, the USA has not had any coups since it was established in 1776! Ooops!! Well let's see, how many constitutions has the U.S. had? Only one with a few amendments! Huh, no help there either.

Thailand is and will remain the military coup d'etat hub of the universe because polls of Thai people have revealed that about 63% of Thais say that corruption is OK if it benefits them. Looks like corruption is here to stay folks.

[GerdT]

If France and/or Germany had suffered a military coup then the leader of the coup would be tried for treason and democracy would be restored.

But first of all Germany or France wouldn't have a government like Yingluck because a Thaksin would be tried and put into jail years ago, so there wouldn't be any need for a coup.

Unfortunately for you that isn’t the case. Take a look at Valéry Giscard d'Estaing the French President that was involved in a scandal with the regime of Jean-Bédel Bokassa in the Central African Republic and with a diamond smuggling scandal involving Bokassa, by which he personally profited.

It wasn’t the military that removed him from power but the people that elected a different government. Still, he didn’t end up in prison but started to look for new opportunities with in the EU.

Gerhard Schroeder a German chancellor springs to mind when looking at him today, on the board of a company that was established with the Russian government against political concern in Germany. Again, the people voted him out of office and no military intervention was needed.

[wabothai]

He just does not get it.

Too busy looking in the mirror of his motocy.

[gopis108]

PM Prayut seems to be getting some good work done as far as rooting out corruption(not replacing it as my THai wife says) which to me is much more welcome than the foolish situation of the so called democratic forces that stalled all economic activity in BKK for six months.Now if he would sort out the immigration Dept.and introduce some internationally compatible standards I would support him unequivocally(eg,a proper permanent resident status which falls in line with international standards,no work permit necessary and land ownership rights etc.)

[berybert]

Why does the PM, so desperate to bring joy and happiness to the Thai people, always look so sad ?

[JOC]

If France and/or Germany had suffered a military coup then the leader of the coup would be tried for treason and democracy would be restored.

But first of all Germany or France wouldn't have a government like Yingluck because a Thaksin would be tried and put into jail years ago, so there wouldn't be any need for a coup.

Give up mate!!

You are defending the indefensible............

[onelasttime]

It seems to me that the good general / PM's government is good at some things...e.g. getting rid of some deck chair mafia on the beaches, or attempting to clean out BIB but in the grand scheme of things... insignificant stuff. His goal is to return Thailand to some mythical golden age of navel gazing and mental masturbation that Thailand is right and the world must step in line. My guess is that there will never be a referendum on the new constitution 'for fear it will incite civil unrest'.

I don't like this guy and his simplistic world view. At the same time, he is correct in saying that most Thais think democracy means just having an election. However, until Thailand seriously addresses it's appaling education system designed to keep the masses ignorant, there will never be a population capable of critical and questioning thought.

Just my two cents worth.

[JOC]

PM Prayut seems to be getting some good work done as far as rooting out corruption(not replacing it as my THai wife says) which to me is much more welcome than the foolish situation of the so called democratic forces that stalled all economic activity in BKK for six months.Now if he would sort out the immigration Dept.and introduce some internationally compatible standards I would support him unequivocally(eg,a proper permanent resident status which falls in line with international standards,no work permit necessary and land ownership rights etc.)

which to me is much more welcome than the foolish situation of the so called democratic forces that stalled all economic activity in BKK for six months.

Those "democratic forces" were preparing the way for the coup................

[JOC]

Look up world!!

Thai democracy coming your way..............................

[Tarowand]

The military everywhere lives in a fantasy world when it comes to politics both at home and abroad. It is interesting that all supreme rulers look similar in height, facial expressions and a belief they are fair and just and doing the right things for the country. They all handle the media in a similar fashion. But just try all communicate with any one from the ruling elite and you will soon learn there is only one thailand and it does not exist in isan, the farming community, ect. It is truly a feudal society.

[NanLaew]

But first of all Germany or France wouldn't have a government like Yingluck because a Thaksin would be tried and put into jail years ago, so there wouldn't be any need for a coup.

All these years, all these experiences (and all these posts) and it is STILL all about Thaksin.

He is putting an end to feudalism?

Now that is funny.

A relative newcomer (here) who has a real grasp on what passes for reality in Thailand.

[GerdT]

Hmm... I wonder why he won't be asking the United States what they do after a coup d'état? Oh, that's right, the USA has not had any coups since it was established in 1776! Ooops!! Well let's see, how many constitutions has the U.S. had? Only one with a few amendments! Huh, no help there either.

Thailand is and will remain the military coup d'etat hub of the universe because polls of Thai people have revealed that about 63% of Thais say that corruption is OK if it benefits them. Looks like corruption is here to stay folks.

Looking at the US and what it represents today I wouldn’t take the moral high ground if I were you. Secret courts, executive orders and other tools implemented of which the public wasn’t aware until revealed by Snowden it seems that the constitution you mention and being so proud of has been eroded.

At least in Thailand it has been placed into the open and article 44 is there to be read by all people compared to the secret orders that seem to rule the US now.

I am also convinced that 100 % of Americans that represent the ruling class there including the business leaders think that corruption is OK. How that would represent in the overall population I don’t know; still I haven’t found an American that would not take the opportunity to avoid a fine or making a profit if paying some sort of bribe and getting away with it.

[Strangebrew]

Hell I'll take an honest Thai woman.