Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Rykbanlor]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

and Prayut could actually be God, we just dont know ... RTP could actually also be there to help and assist the people instead of robbing them ...

Thai bashers!!!! Right.

I've lived here for 15 years, speak Thai fluently, live amongst a family of smart liberal progressive Thais, and am fairly well integrated into society.

If I believe it wasn't the BUrmese that did it, and I have a poor view of the Police that makes me a Thai basher?

That makes all the rational Thai friends I have Thai bashers as well then.

In fact the only people I've ever met who don't regard the Police with fear or contempt are people with some kind of links to them. I am not embelleshing anything, this is my experience so far.

Fact is you don't know anything about this case. You were not there. All you do is speculate like the rest of us.

B2 could be guilty. COULD!

I was objecting to being called a Thai basher. I have already stated in other posts that while I personally believe the B2 are innocent, I still accept that it is only speculation.

In this post I was referencing the dim view most Thai people have of the Police, and your sweeping statement about Thai bashers.

Think Mcfly, Think.

[StealthEnergiser]

more on the hoe

Another Burmese migrant worker, known as O, who worked at a local resort, told the second day of the murder trial, which is being held on the nearby island of Koh Samui, that he was first to stumble across the bodies. He said he owned the heavy hoe that police say was used to kill the Britons, and had taken it away from the scene.

“I saw my hoe [near the slain holidaymakers] and took it back to my vegetable garden,” he told the court.

The defence questioned how he had failed to notice blood on the hoe but he said it had been too dark.

Police eventually found the tool hidden by rubbish bags in the garden of the resort where he worked.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/article4493211.ece

Edited July 11, 2015 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[SunsetT]

This a farce, it would make millions as a stage show in the West End. From the beginning it was a complete cock-up, the police admitted moving the body before anything else and the evidence was found scattered around the island. The evidence track is at best suspect as is their testing abilities./ The UK Police were there to watch but even they have noted DNA contaminated.

The Trail is a media show for the world to see Thai justice, nothing about getting at the truth you noter just justice in the eyes of Thailand, bugger the rest of the world. If it wasn't so laughable it would be very very scary , that two peole ( non thais of course ) are being held and ut on trail for a serious offence. We forget at our peril that it was said quite categorically that THAIS do not do this sort of thing, so it could NOT be them could it.

REALLY !!!!!!!

PROVE IT LEGALLY !!!!!!.

Yes this is farce and scary. But whatever happens, and I have said this once before, the best way to shame the Thai police and legal system into changing, and to warn others about Koh Tao, would be to keep this case in the public eye WORLDWIDE for decades to come by making a movie about it. And they could even call it: "The Beach 2"........Seriously.

[stephenterry]

more on the hoe

Another Burmese migrant worker, known as O, who worked at a local resort, told the second day of the murder trial, which is being held on the nearby island of Koh Samui, that he was first to stumble across the bodies. He said he owned the heavy hoe that police say was used to kill the Britons, and had taken it away from the scene.

“I saw my hoe [near the slain holidaymakers] and took it back to my vegetable garden,” he told the court.

The defence questioned how he had failed to notice blood on the hoe but he said it had been too dark.

Police eventually found the tool hidden by rubbish bags in the garden of the resort where he worked.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/article4493211.ece

does this evidence favour the defence or the prosecution?

[bunglebag]

And so the farce continues

Crime scene photos not in police file, how useful for the RTP, so now they can say anything they want about the scene including the statement that the clothes were in a nice neat pile??? Perhaps they better link up a connection to this thread or even try Google

They don't have the budget to keep some photos? This was already farce but is becoming just ridiculous now. Of course they have the budget but there never was a neat pile of clothes so let's just say we don't have any pictures now.

Blatant lies in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary. It's crazy - some of these 'witnesses' literally don't give a monkeys that the things they are saying are 1. completely untrue and 2. evidence proving them to be untrue is everywhere. Blatant blatant lies.

Oh I know, let's just say we don't have any dna evidence now too.

There are plenty of the crime scene photos on the net. Can the defence not use these in some way to dispute the complete lies that some people are telling (neat pile of clothes etc) and thus remove any credibility of this particular witness and cast doubt doubt on some others. I'd imagine half the people on this thread could supply crime scene photos or links to them if required!

Edited July 11, 2015 by bunglebag

[sickwaterbuffalo2]

I wonder why so called top law companys advertising their bussinesses on thai visa would not take one a high profile case like this ,instead of asking 400,00 baht for a simple divorce case between a HI SO slapper from Buriram and some <deleted> from Europe.

[Rykbanlor]

The headman is a very , very small man in a very big pond.....

So why are the big fish helping him so much?

That is the key to this tragedy.

Google the name Suthep Thaugsuban if you don't know who he is!

Add friendship and business interest's now maybe the head man is a small fish in a big pond but when he has a friend as big and as and powerful as Suthep anything and everything is possible thats the way Thailand works unfortunately my friend.

While on Google check Suthep visits Samui and K.Tao as a monk after the murders and there are pictures of the monk with the head man enough said .

I was aware that Voraphan Toovichien was a big organiser for the PDRC campaign, am aware of the connections but can't find any pics of them together. Got a link?

[stephenterry]

And so the farce continues

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/619641656413794304'>

Crime scene photos not in police file, how useful for the RTP, so now they can say anything they want about the scene including the statement that the clothes were in a nice neat pile??? Perhaps they better link up a connection to this thread or even try Google

They don't have the budget to keep some photos? this was already farce but is becoming just ridiculous now.

There are plenty of crime scene photos on the net. Can the defence not use these in some way to dispute the complete lies that some people are telling (neat pile of clothes etc). I'd imagine half the people on this thread could supply crime scene photos or links to them if required! I suspect that the photo s could show injuries that conflict with the rtp version

[Rykbanlor]

I wonder why so called top law companys advertising their bussinesses on thai visa would not take one a high profile case like this ,instead of asking 400,00 baht for a simple divorce case between a HI SO slapper from Buriram and some <deleted> from Europe.

Haha, thats pretty funny - but actually I suspect it's because they practice civil law suits rather criminal law. (or Uncivil, where divorce is concerned)

[LittleSpy]

I have never seen such a pathetic bunch of comments on this case. You can hate me for this but most of you write such rubbish. Forget to show trial, forget the evidence, lost or not. Forget the competence of the Police. Forget that the British Police have not issued an official comment ( Politics ) Just talk to the local Thais on the Islands. They know who committed the evil deeds but will not tell you for fear. The local Thai families rule these Islands, not the Police, Not the local or national government not anyone but the locals. Stay with them and you have nothing to fear but cross them and your dead. Worse thing is that the British Government does nothing to help but of course they must get permission of the United States before speaking. Also we have no right to criticize Thai Justice system. We are guests in their country and if you dont like it go home.

[StealthEnergiser]

more on the hoe

Another Burmese migrant worker, known as O, who worked at a local resort, told the second day of the murder trial, which is being held on the nearby island of Koh Samui, that he was first to stumble across the bodies. He said he owned the heavy hoe that police say was used to kill the Britons, and had taken it away from the scene.

“I saw my hoe [near the slain holidaymakers] and took it back to my vegetable garden,” he told the court.

The defence questioned how he had failed to notice blood on the hoe but he said it had been too dark.

Police eventually found the tool hidden by rubbish bags in the garden of the resort where he worked.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/article4493211.ece

does this evidence favour the defence or the prosecution?

It should favour the defence as it proves the crime scene was tampered with .

[thailandchilli]

I wonder if the defense is still going to use the theory that Hannah was shot?

"The defence theory is that the hoe was used to hide gunshot wounds and the bodies were arranged to disguise what had actually occurred"

You need a subscription to reveal the full article but if you copy and paste the sentence into Google search the Times link comes up.

This was reported in the Sunday Times on the 28th June so not sure if this was before or after they received the new information from the UK which we know now is the autopsy reports from the UK coroner.

Edited July 11, 2015 by thailandchilli

[crazykopite]

My thoughts and prayers are with the parents of the deceased who were brutally murdered it must be hell for them sitting in court looking at photographs and not understanding what is being said , having spent 10 years living between the islands I have never met a policeman who is sincere and honest they are all in the pockets of the local bigwig families who have far to much power. In The UK they would be known as gangsters in Italy as Mafia. I have on a number of occasions had to report a crime at a police station the first thing asked for was two /three hundred baht just to write a report even the local immigration want at least 500 baht to give you a letter or to switch a visa stamp from one passport to another but they never give you a receipt of payment I have even heard of judges being persuaded to give a favourable decision in exchange for money . sadly most government workers are corrupt not just to farangs but to there own fellow countrymen/woman and it will never change as it is an accepted way of life in Thailand.

[elgordo38]

What this policeman said is exactly what I said about it being used not lost and to be honest he's being far too nice to the foreign press who are using every opportunity they can to stir the sh!t.

I just read one guys post and it contains the words The Real Killers..I am amazed at how many people would be willing to let these two suspects go when they haven't even heard the evidence.

They have like sheep joined the flock of they are innocent and even if the teeth marks were a perfect mach they would say the Thai Police made a mould.

The family of the victims have stated they were happy after talking to the British Police with the Thai Police's finding but the flock know better.....The flock have absolutely no evidence..all they have is gossip but someone told someone who knows so and so so and his brother told my friend it wasn't them so it must be true.

Thousand of people have voiced their opinions based on gossip not one person had said anything they can back up or they would be in the court as a defense witness.....to me that is PATHETIC

No likes on this statement. Before we bring out the howitzers lets see what the retesting shows. Next step I would not be surprised to hear there is none left for a viable test. Unless there is a direct sample available from the girl I cannot see where there is evidence from a used condom found some distance away from the murder site. With all the hook ups between young people there in the heat of the moment and fused by alcohol I am sure there were more condoms to be found. Also as one gentleman pointed out I doubt if in the heat of the moment the perp would have take the time to roll one on. Yes there is a lot of gossip among the "flock" but then the handling/bungling of this case from the gitgo seems to cause more personal positions being taken. A lot of gossip is being masked maybe some is the truth but then the people uttering the gossip do not want their name or the name of another "supposedly" guilty part mentioned. Slander laws here can eat you alive.

[JungleBiker]

...about the cigarettes butts. They were found at the crime scene

Says who? Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. How can anybody believe anything the BIB say? They have zero credibility, especially in this particular double murder case.

[loonodingle]

My apologies if this has already been mentioned before but I was unable to get my head around why a rapist would use a condom and furthermore why there was no DNA found inside it. I've done some research and yes rapists have been known to use condoms to hide their DNA but that purpose is defeated if it is left lying around. For the life of me I fail to see how this counts as evidence other than the fact it was allegedly used on the victim.

Who says the condom had anything to do with the crime? it could have been discarded earlier that evening. The fact that fag butts were found 60 meters away from the scene is irrelevant as well. Considering there was plenty of people who went to the beach. It could be anyone of a number of people.

[bunglebag]

this is the hoe that was inspected by forensics - it is not in the same place as the one with all the blood and there is not as much blood on it as the one in the garden bed.

hoe4.jpg

That is a good spot. Looking carefully at the sand? / cement? shapes on the blade I would say this could be the same hoe, but yes in the video it is in a different location and the blood has been mostly covered over with sand, or somewhat cleaned off and then covered over with sand - certainly doesn't look how it was first found and photographed.

Edited July 11, 2015 by bunglebag

[sweatalot]

I think this now you see it now you don't game must end. The court to save face and bring this trial back to some degree of fairness must allow the defence to independently retest the evidence. If they do not agree to this well its all cut and dried from here on out. It should be retested outside of Thailand by a impartial reputable lab. This trial has become a sham missing witnesses defendants claim they were beaten to obtain a confession police stating that people should be ashamed in defending these obviously guilty young boys and it goes on and on. Thailand in many ways wants to play on the world stage but only as an actor and not as a purveyor of the truth. You just cannot have it both ways.

" independently retest the evidence"

if it is in Thailand there can be no guarantee that it is independent

the skill of the scientist is not the only source of the result

[sweatalot]

I think this now you see it now you don't game must end. The court to save face and bring this trial back to some degree of fairness must allow the defence to independently retest the evidence. If they do not agree to this well its all cut and dried from here on out. It should be retested outside of Thailand by a impartial reputable lab. This trial has become a sham missing witnesses defendants claim they were beaten to obtain a confession police stating that people should be ashamed in defending these obviously guilty young boys and it goes on and on. Thailand in many ways wants to play on the world stage but only as an actor and not as a purveyor of the truth. You just cannot have it both ways.

" independently retest the evidence"

if it is in Thailand there can be no guarantee that it is independent

the skill of the scientist is not the only source of the result

[loonodingle]

...about the cigarettes butts. They were found at the crime scene

Says who? Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. How can anybody believe anything the BIB say? They have zero credibility, especially in this particular double murder case.

60 Meteres way.or 190 foot. that's 4 and half artic trailers away.

A considerable distance

[JLCrab]

I wonder if the defense is still going to use the theory that Hannah was shot?

"The defence theory is that the hoe was used to hide gunshot wounds and the bodies were arranged to disguise what had actually occurred"

You need a subscription to reveal the full article but if you copy and paste the sentence into Google search the Times link comes up.

This was reported in the Sunday Times on the 28th June so not sure if this was before or after they received the new information from the UK which we know now is the autopsy reports from the UK coroner.

http://thailandjustice.com/category/latest-news/

[JungleBiker]

...about the cigarettes butts. They were found at the crime scene

Says who? Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. How can anybody believe anything the BIB say? They have zero credibility, especially in this particular double murder case.

60 Meteres way.or 190 foot. that's 4 and half artic trailers away.

A considerable distance

How do you know? Are you the one who found them? I think you're just repeating what you've read or heard. We don't know if what was said or written was the truth or not.

[boomerangutang]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

------------------------------------------------------

Re; the flubbing up of DNA trail which has unfurled in past days: I hope it's not entirely thrashed. On the one hand, I'd like to see the B2 acquitted, if they're innocent, which I think they are. However, if ever Thailand had a rogue independent-thinking cop, someone like a Serpico, in its ranks, he/she might choose to dig deep and find who the real killers are. Since this is Thailand, it's unlikely that any cop or investigator will take the initiative to buck the orders of superior officiers ("what?! You're interested in re-opening this case and finding the real killers - are you nuts? Do you want to get fired, or just get snuffed out?"). In the unlikely chance that happens, DNA evidence would need to be viable.

[Oziex1]

In the end maybe the only real justice will be to boycott Koh Tao tourism if not Thailand itself. Deny the whole mess the foreign currency that helps fuel the corrupt thuggery.

[Oziex1]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

------------------------------------------------------

Re; the flubbing up of DNA trail which has unfurled in past days: I hope it's not entirely thrashed. On the one hand, I'd like to see the B2 acquitted, if they're innocent, which I think they are. However, if ever Thailand had a rogue independent-thinking cop, someone like a Serpico, in its ranks, he/she might choose to dig deep and find who the real killers are. Since this is Thailand, it's unlikely that any cop or investigator will take the initiative to buck the orders of superior officiers ("what?! You're interested in re-opening this case and finding the real killers - are you nuts? Do you want to get fired, or just get snuffed out?"). In the unlikely chance that happens, DNA evidence would need to be viable.

Popular line of thought says no special investigation required, the thugs allegedly responsible are well known on Koh Tao.

[thailandchilli]

...about the cigarettes butts. They were found at the crime scene

Says who? Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. How can anybody believe anything the BIB say? They have zero credibility, especially in this particular double murder case.

60 Meteres way.or 190 foot. that's 4 and half artic trailers away.

A considerable distance

How do you know? Are you the one who found them? I think you're just repeating what you've read or heard. We don't know if what was said or written was the truth or not.

So whats the point of a forum and any discussion if you cant repeat what you hear or read??

According to the Bangkok Post the butts were found 60 meters away and according to the Asia Correspondent they were 50 meters away.

[boomerangutang]

Fact is you don't know anything about this case. You were not there. All you do is speculate like the rest of us.

B2 could be guilty. COULD!

Perhaps you mean to say, 'you don't know all about this case' instead of "....anything about this case."

Even a casual observer knows a lot about this case. She knows there were two Brits murdered and one probably gang raped. Here are some other things we know about this case. . . . .

>>> there was a head cop in the early stages who was doing a reasonably good job of following the evidence to where it led,

>>> His higher-ups in Bkk kept putting pressure on him to not indict anyone connected to the Headman, but instead indict some powerless poor Burmese lads.

>>>> .....and lots more.

Anyhow, the things we know about this case could fill a thick book, small font. By saying we don't know anything is more ludicrous than demeaning. It shows your bias, and borders on shrill.

[monty1412]

Im not going to comment on the case details/ evidence or speculate on who are /is the real perpetrators but I find it very very strange that in a case where the RTP/ Crown Prosecutors must have a huge degree of cognisance anticipating the immense international following and the ramifications of such that a simple point such as arranging for prior independent secondary testing of the DNA in Singapore or even prior hand making the DNA evidence available to the defence has not been done...... if you have smoking gun evidence then one would have thought they would have shared this or had it independently tested prior to the trial so that the DNA evidence is no longer a point of the defence team......

Why would the RTP/ Crown Prosecutorial team allow this to be such a point of contention and confusion so early in the trial when a simple few diligent steps taken months ago could have negated this whole issue and made the DNA evidence solid and irrefutable ...... surely the knowledge that world eyes are upon them and credibility of the Thai justice system at stake would have meant there should have been some degree of critical thinking and action in such matters.

[StealthEnergiser]

I wonder if the defense is still going to use the theory that Hannah was shot?

"The defence theory is that the hoe was used to hide gunshot wounds and the bodies were arranged to disguise what had actually occurred"

You need a subscription to reveal the full article but if you copy and paste the sentence into Google search the Times link comes up.

This was reported in the Sunday Times on the 28th June so not sure if this was before or after they received the new information from the UK which we know now is the autopsy reports from the UK coroner.

http://thailandjustice.com/category/latest-news/

The defence theory is that the hoe was used to hide gunshot wounds and the bodies were arranged to disguise what had actually occurred. A photo taken of Witheridge as she lay dead on the beach that has been obtained by The Sunday Times appears to show shrapnel wounds to her face.

Few, if any, people who live on the island will speak out as the case has been overshadowed by reports in the Thai media of interference by “influential figures”, a euphemism for organised crime. No British witnesses have come forward.

Since the murders of the young Britons there have been more suspicious deaths on Koh Tao.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Crime/article1574330.ece

Edited July 11, 2015 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy, and oversize font reset to normal.

[DaveinAsia]

Why did it almost take 10 months to start the trial?

This case smells so bad. In front of the whole world they lie and twist and don't even care that everybody knows. And all of that is just to protect some local guy?

They will go to any length to make sure that the real culprits are never caught. Is it all about a very large bribe? Or is someone even higher involved?

This trial is a complete farce and I am surprised that the English media doesn't mention this at all. It's been pretty clear from the beginning that the two Burmese guys are going down for this.

I hope I am wrong but it really seems like it