Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[jackanapes]

I have come to the conclusion that this case is fast becoming a farce at the end of the day these 2 Burmese boys will be found guilty the rtp do not intend to lose face and they will create evidence to fit the crime a complete mockery of justice.

[loonodingle]

...about the cigarettes butts. They were found at the crime scene

Says who? Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. How can anybody believe anything the BIB say? They have zero credibility, especially in this particular double murder case.

60 Meteres way.or 190 foot. that's 4 and half artic trailers away.

A considerable distance

How do you know? Are you the one who found them? I think you're just repeating what you've read or heard. We don't know if what was said or written was the truth or not.

Sorry it was what the prosecution stated if I am correct. So agreed its probably a crock of sheet

[stephenterry]

Im not going to comment on the case details/ evidence or speculate on who are /is the real perpetrators but I find it very very strange that in a case where the RTP/ Crown Prosecutors must have a huge degree of cognisance anticipating the immense international following and the ramifications of such that a simple point such as arranging for prior independent secondary testing of the DNA in Singapore or even prior hand making the DNA evidence available to the defence has not been done...... if you have smoking gun evidence then one would have thought they would have shared this or had it independently tested prior to the trial so that the DNA evidence is no longer a point of the defence team......

Why would the RTP/ Crown Prosecutorial team allow this to be such a point of contention and confusion so early in the trial when a simple few diligent steps taken months ago could have negated this whole issue and made the DNA evidence solid and irrefutable ...... surely the knowledge that world eyes are upon them and credibility of the Thai justice system at stake would have meant there should have been some degree of critical thinking and action in such matters.

because they fabricated the evidence

[sambum]

the evidence is not lost it is all a misunderstanding then why isn't it at koh samui where it should be? the condom I would ascertain that may belong to david miller unused / bite marks on hannahs body animalistic a possible thai link cigarette butts what type of cigarettes a saliva test would determine who was at the scene of the crime .

Apparently the cigarette butt was found quite a distance from the crime scene. As a previous poster has said, even if the DNA of one or both suspects was on the butt, all it proves is that they were on the beach smoking a cigarette in the vicinity of the crime scene. It could have been well before the murders took place, and as far as I know, it is not against the law to smoke a cigarette on a beach! They would maybe get a 2000 baht fine for littering though!

[JungleBiker]

So whats the point of a forum and any discussion if you cant repeat what you hear or read??

According to the Bangkok Post the butts were found 60 meters away and according to the Asia Correspondent they were 50 meters away.

You can repeat what you like but my point is that repeating what you've heard or read doesn't mean it's true (or not true).

Just because you read something in the Bangkok Post or Asia Correspondent also doesn't mean it is true (or not true). Where did they get their info from? I guess from the BIB?

Anyhow I understand the butts are "finished" but even if they weren't "finished" what would DNA testing prove (especially without any chain of custody process)? It might prove who smoked them (though it would be possible to apply someone's DNA to the butts without the DNA owner(s) having smoked the cigarettes), but even then, so what? Smoking a cigarette on a public beach is not a crime, even if it was shared with someone who was later murdered it doesn't prove the smoker(s) did the murders.

Same with the condom - if the condom did come from the crime scene (perhaps it didn't?), anyone's DNA could have been applied to produce false evidence and/or to lead investigators away from the real murderer(s). If it is was used during sex with the female victim, consensual or not, it does not prove who committed the actual murder. The condom user(s) and the murderer(s) might not be the same people.

[JungleBiker]

Apparently the cigarette butt was found quite a distance from the crime scene. As a previous poster has said, even if the DNA of one or both suspects was on the butt, all it proves is that they were on the beach smoking a cigarette in the vicinity of the crime scene. It could have been well before the murders took place, and as far as I know, it is not against the law to smoke a cigarette on a beach! They would maybe get a 2000 baht fine for littering though!

Sorry Sam, I was writing my post while you were posting yours! Hence said more or less the same thing.

[DM07]

The case was sent back 3 times to the RTP, because it was not conclusive or whatever.

3 forking times!

They had time for almost a year, to provide a waterproof case...and after only 3 days in court, the mighty RTP fumble and tumble and stutter and present anything BUT convincing evidence. Now...another break, so they can get their act together (eg make up some new evidence and threaten some more people into confessing ...something).

If the DNA is not independently tested by a 3rd party, who will give two hot sh1ts about the outcome?!

This whole mess would be a giant joke, if it wouldn't be for 2 young lives, that are placed on the line to save forkin' Thailand's forking face!

[kuripot]

I very rarely post these days due to lack of time but I seem to remember something on this forum in the early days about the Hoe not being the murder weapon and was used after the event to remove "evidence" from the body. It would be interesting to know if the original suspect had a licenced (or otherwise ) firearm. Possibly the post mortem in the UK found some evidence of this. Just my two setang's worth.

[TheFishman1]

Yep I beleive in ever thing the Police say here, and the sky is falling. They really did a poor job from day one. Well they got there fall guys what's new

[JLCrab]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

Edited July 11, 2015 by JLCrab

[stephenterry]

The reason that the b2 were arrested is that the rtp did not think that they had the resources to challenge their case. Arrogance has a price.

[phuketandsee]

I have come to the conclusion that this case is fast becoming a farce at the end of the day these 2 Burmese boys will be found guilty the rtp do not intend to lose face and they will create evidence to fit the crime a complete mockery of justice.

What took you so long? Most of us have known this for months. I can only assume you have only just started following this.

[stephenterry]

I'm fed up with this whole case. By now it must be obvious that the rtp fabricated the evidence to appease their masters. Like many times before when money buys justice. Expect a guilty verdict. TIT.

[sambum]

I have never seen such a pathetic bunch of comments on this case. You can hate me for this but most of you write such rubbish. Forget to show trial, forget the evidence, lost or not. Forget the competence of the Police. Forget that the British Police have not issued an official comment ( Politics ) Just talk to the local Thais on the Islands. They know who committed the evil deeds but will not tell you for fear. The local Thai families rule these Islands, not the Police, Not the local or national government not anyone but the locals. Stay with them and you have nothing to fear but cross them and your dead. Worse thing is that the British Government does nothing to help but of course they must get permission of the United States before speaking. Also we have no right to criticize Thai Justice system. We are guests in their country and if you dont like it go home.

"Also we have no right to criticize Thai Justice system."

What a croad of lap! So you are obviously of the opinion that no matter WHAT happens in this country, we are not allowed to pass a negative comment? Sounds like "attitude adjustment" is needed here!

" We are guests in their country and if you don't like it go home."

As you are being so childish, if I had to write down the number of times I have read that it could quite easily fill up a couple of hours detention! Not really worth a comment, but how would the revenue from tourism and foreign investment figures look if everybody in that category did follow your "advice"?

Edited July 11, 2015 by sambum

[phuketandsee]

I'm fed up with this whole case. By now it must be obvious that the rtp fabricated the evidence to appease their masters. Like many times before when money buys justice. Expect a guilty verdict. TIT.

Indeed. We can only hope that it's obviousness to the World might just keep these poor lads alive. And just maybe put a dent in KT's tourist income.

[6NS]

The headman is a very , very small man in a very big pond.....

So why are the big fish helping him so much?

That is the key to this tragedy.

You must go back several months where it was posted by a Thai scholar to whom he is tied to.

[Patsycat]

Her name is Hannah. Not Heather nor Victoria. Hannah.

At least have some respect and call her by her name, please.

[jdinasia]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

LOL Crab.

Again IATA keeps records of all passengers on all flights if the airline has any international destinations.

Access to the data is easy. How do you think Yingluck's flight data got out

[gemguy]

Hopefully the Judge and or the Prosecutor are not bought off or coerced by the police while they can see through this farce and legally block it and make the police work extra, extra hard to prove, without a doubt, that the 2 Burmese men are the ones ( lack of any concrete evidence and an obviously corrupted case).....while I really do not think they have enough legitimate proof to convict them.....while I hope the smug and over confident police officers handling this case loose face, big time, and the case gets thrown out of court.... for the obvious reasons.

Cheers

[changnaam]

Bangkok Air has two flight leaving Ko Samui on Monday mornings:

one leaves at 6am and arrives BKK: 7:04. the other is 7:45 arriving at 8:50

How long would it take to get to Nomsod's University apartment from airport?

The crime wrapped up at 5 am. Taking a fast boat to Samui, I assume would take less than an hour.

Even considering the above data, I suspect if he took a flight to Bkk on Monday morning, 15th September, he would have opted to do it via Chumpon. Just a hunch on my part. It's all moot, because it's very doubtful either Bangkok Air or Nok Air is going to release any data which would anger a KT headman who is allegedly mafia-like.

<snip>

... and he would had even had some extra time if he had bought his ticket the day before.

I would not know where to find it, so only speculation but there was suggestion that he flew out of Surat on the first flight, flying under his fathers name.

After taking the "little duck" and having to ask directions from fishermen on the way to the mainland.

[sambum]

Her name is Hannah. Not Heather nor Victoria. Hannah.

At least have some respect and call her by her name, please.

But,but..... GOLDBUGGY called her Victoria because some of her friends did as it's her middle name! (Sicko!)

Edited July 11, 2015 by sambum

[somo]

My thoughts and prayers are with the parents of the deceased who were brutally murdered it must be hell for them sitting in court looking at photographs and not understanding what is being said , having spent 10 years living between the islands I have never met a policeman who is sincere and honest they are all in the pockets of the local bigwig families who have far to much power. In The UK they would be known as gangsters in Italy as Mafia. I have on a number of occasions had to report a crime at a police station the first thing asked for was two /three hundred baht just to write a report even the local immigration want at least 500 baht to give you a letter or to switch a visa stamp from one passport to another but they never give you a receipt of payment I have even heard of judges being persuaded to give a favourable decision in exchange for money . sadly most government workers are corrupt not just to farangs but to there own fellow countrymen/woman and it will never change as it is an accepted way of life in Thailand.

The British Embassy is even worse. They want 3000 Baht for a photocopy and a stamp. Same with the courts unless you can afford an expensive lawyer it is difficult to get justice. Criminal cases get free support but the police are always presumed to be telling the truth much like here really. In Thailand they are stupidly incompetent at disguising the unfairness.

[Lite Beer]

Funds needed by the MWRN to bring British crime scene and forensic experts over to Samui for the Koh Tao murder trial

KOH SAMUI: -- The Migrant Workers Rights Network (MWRN) is looking for support in order to raise funds urgently required to fly UK based crime scene investigators and forensic experts to Samui to appear as witnesses in September.

The defense team has said that it has received unspecified information and evidence from UK authorities that was ‘not consistent” with findings obtained from Thai authorities and used by the prosecution in the cases.

The defense team has asked the court for independent tests to be carried out on DNA however the vital DNA evidence that links the two defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the body of one of the victims cannot be produced for retesting.

Pol Col Somkiat Kaewmook, deputy chief of Surat Thani provincial police, said: “Some forensic materials were used up in the testing process, which means they do not exist.”

The MWRN and the defense team have long believed that the two defendants are being used as scapegoats and continue to fight for justice for the two men, both 22 and working as barmen on Koh Tao at the time of the murders. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen.


-- Samui Times 2015-07-11

[Mooner]

LOL Crab.

Again IATA keeps records of all passengers on all flights if the airline has any international destinations.

Access to the data is easy. How do you think Yingluck's flight data got out

Awesome. If it's so easy will you be posting the information later.

If you can't be bothered feel free to send me the process and I will post it so we can nullify those pesky Conspiracy theorists.

[thailandchilli]

So whats the point of a forum and any discussion if you cant repeat what you hear or read??

According to the Bangkok Post the butts were found 60 meters away and according to the Asia Correspondent they were 50 meters away.

You can repeat what you like but my point is that repeating what you've heard or read doesn't mean it's true (or not true).

Just because you read something in the Bangkok Post or Asia Correspondent also doesn't mean it is true (or not true). Where did they get their info from? I guess from the BIB?

Anyhow I understand the butts are "finished" but even if they weren't "finished" what would DNA testing prove (especially without any chain of custody process)? It might prove who smoked them (though it would be possible to apply someone's DNA to the butts without the DNA owner(s) having smoked the cigarettes), but even then, so what? Smoking a cigarette on a public beach is not a crime, even if it was shared with someone who was later murdered it doesn't prove the smoker(s) did the murders.

Same with the condom - if the condom did come from the crime scene (perhaps it didn't?), anyone's DNA could have been applied to produce false evidence and/or to lead investigators away from the real murderer(s). If it is was used during sex with the female victim, consensual or not, it does not prove who committed the actual murder. The condom user(s) and the murderer(s) might not be the same people.

I do agree on everything you say, however I'm not one to believe every newspaper report and most people aren't either, if we did then reading some of the Thai language press we would all be suckered into thinking the RTP case is still perfect.

However on this occasion there are plenty of reports that the B2 were singing, playing guitar, smoking and drinking 50 to 60 yards away from the murder scene on a log. So when one reads further multiple reports that the fag butts were found around the same distance away then its appears this could indeed be true.

As for the condom I have no clue, it could be a complete red herring, I read reports that the condom had Hannahs blood on the outside and thats where they got the DNA and if this is the case it could just be that it was lying around at the scene beforehand?

[stephenterry]

Yeah that's plausible.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Her name is Hannah. Not Heather nor Victoria. Hannah.

At least have some respect and call her by her name, please.

But,but..... GOLDBUGGY called her Victoria because some of her friends did as it's her middle name! (Sicko!)

Her full name is "Hannah Victoria Witheridge" Google that!

Also, try to use her full name here from now as it appears that people like you don't like it when people shorten it.

Got nothing better to do then going around trying to correct people all the time and looking for an argument. That is the real SICKO Part.

[Blackfox]

I haven't read all posts but have reviewed a lot of information over the past months, as many of you.

My question now is, why does the incompetent Colonel Somsak, police chief on the islands, claim some evidence is no longer in existence and he's also currently uncertain what evidence he possesses.

Please mods if I may;

Irrespective of the outcome, what must be done to neutralize this <deleted> prick.

Start with him and then others.

Any pics of this scumbag degenerate low life should be posted if within forum rules?

Any information about this Mafia might just make some lads happy; if not on this thread, perhaps a separate one.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Blackfox

[thailandchilli]

Funds needed by the MWRN to bring British crime scene and forensic experts over to Samui for the Koh Tao murder trial

KOH SAMUI: -- The Migrant Workers Rights Network (MWRN) is looking for support in order to raise funds urgently required to fly UK based crime scene investigators and forensic experts to Samui to appear as witnesses in September.

The defense team has said that it has received unspecified information and evidence from UK authorities that was ‘not consistent” with findings obtained from Thai authorities and used by the prosecution in the cases.

The defense team has asked the court for independent tests to be carried out on DNA however the vital DNA evidence that links the two defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the body of one of the victims cannot be produced for retesting.

Pol Col Somkiat Kaewmook, deputy chief of Surat Thani provincial police, said: “Some forensic materials were used up in the testing process, which means they do not exist.”

The MWRN and the defense team have long believed that the two defendants are being used as scapegoats and continue to fight for justice for the two men, both 22 and working as barmen on Koh Tao at the time of the murders. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen.

-- Samui Times 2015-07-11

Thats was quick!!

[VintageTQ]

Comparisons for the running man and village headman's son