Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Basil B]

Dont have the resources to store photographic evidence(Dear Lord that one is comical).

Did the police or courts actually say that?

Do not worry they are easy to find on the internet...

[loonodingle]

Highlights you intelligence. The pack has been released again I see.

It's "Your" and like You I am entitled to an opinion however you have gone over board hence the Red Card. Enough is enough sometimes. If you cant bring something constructive to the thread about Hannah and Davids tragic death why u go forth and multiply somewhere else

[Si Thea01]

Agree on that - Anything that can stop people going to that disgusting Island is a good thing - If B2 gets convicted then anything stopping people from going to Thailand is a good thing ... I will try to do something on Thai-Forum in my homecountry to warn people about going here ...

Stephenterry.

Quote>I would suggest the point being made is the Thai (un)justice system is at fault (money buys justice), and this murder mis-investigation is not an isolated incident, but is replicated and has been replicated for decades. Until there are sea changes in Thai society attitudes and behaviour, it will continue.<End quote

If that's the point being made, then he sure has a funny way of putting it but then this is only your suggestion that this is the point he's making when he starts off with, "stopping people going to the island," then, "stopping people going to Thailand," then "warning people about coming here." How you've been able to suggest that what you have written is the point he was making in what he wrote is beyond me. I would say that what you have written is your opinion and nothing to do with the comments he made. Wouldn't you?

My rationale is quite clear. I suggest you absorb the implications that anyone coming here, if they got into trouble and didn't have the necessary to bail them out, could be another victim of non-justice.

You do an awful lot of suggesting don't you? I certainly do not need you to tell me to absorb the implications of anything. If someone coming here, gets themselves into trouble, more fool them. It is the same when one goes to any other country, not only Thailand. I have no sympathy for those who create problems, and when caught they carry on like morons (mainly drug or alcohol induced) then expect sympathy and others to help them out.

When one travels they should they familiarise themselves with the countries rules and regulations, or is it fair that they just carry on like arrogant fools and do what they like regardless, which many of them do when they are away from home. They may well be a victim of the country's justice system, just remember, one reaps what he sows. And as far as your rationale being quite clear, if you say so but I think it is unsound.

And' as I previously said, what you wrote was your opinion, nothing to do with the point that the other poster was making and by your own words, "your rationale", you have confirmed what I stated. This is all about you, you and you, nothing more, nothing less. My opinion, your opinion. And I am not suggesting you do anything.

If someone coming here, gets themselves into trouble, more fool them....................^^^^^^^^^Unbelievable, lets hope you never have any family or friends that get themselves in trouble over here through NO FAULT or their own. I wonder what the victims family would think of your remarks.

You're unbelievable. Do you get your gratification by going out of your way to write misleading statements. If you want to criticise what I write, good for you, but do it honestly, not in the dishonest manner you have on this occasion. Select one sentence and make a comment after you have taken it completely out of context to the rest of the post. Says a lot about you doesn't it, truthful, I'd say more like deceitful.

My post related to persons creating their own problems, mainly through drugs or alcohol, not someone who, through no fault of their own, comes to grief in one way or another. It is so evident that you have little on no idea of what truth in writing means but it is clear you know what deceitful means, as this is the standard way you post on many occasions. Now that I've had my say, I await the other members of the pack to come out in their usual manner and decry my response.

[Lorn]

Sean knows what happened. Read between the lines of his Facebook posts "I know you tried to stop it" and "you're the most honorable man I've ever met". David came across this savagery as did Sean.... David fought and paid with his life, Sean was warned away and ran. Sean is a coward and he is in part responsible. Find the little weasel and lets get to the bottom of this.

I think he "knows" what happened just like a thousand others allegedly do on the island i.e he has 0 proof and anything he says will be hearsay and useless in court. I think his feelings of guilt come from being somewhat involved in the drug trade on the island and feeling that he should have known something like this was going to happen sooner or later.Maybe he introduced one of David or Hannah's friends to the notorious family. Don't think if he had any intimate knowledge of what happened he would have been allowed to leave.

[phuketandsee]

Dont have the resources to store photographic evidence(Dear Lord that one is comical).

Did the police or courts actually say that?

Do not worry they are easy to find on the internet...

As I recall, some of the BiB posted them on their FB pages. Maybe this was their low-budget storage method.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Excuse my pond-life expletives, but this sample 'lost' is total B/S and a bare-faced lie. And while I was willing to be open-minded before this trial commenced, I am now fully convinced of the B2's innocence, for the very good reason that if they had been guilty, NO samples would have been lost or finished.

And I hope that the UK autopsy report crucifies the prosecution. At the very least, it will be all over the UK media to bring shame on a sham.

Here here! Absolutely. I hope the B2 are aware of the global support they have and that it in some way helps them to stay strong.

Here here! Absolutely. I hope the B2 are aware of the global support they have and that it in some way helps them to stay strong.

While really hoping for an acquittal, I fear all our support may only have doomed the Burmese kids to a harsher sentence. It is a well known fact that scapegoats in Thailand, especially if migrant workers, should plead guilty as it leads to a lighter sentence. I think that received wisdom played a part in the Burmese kids' original willingness to "confess" to the murders.

A murder conviction carries a death penalty (probably later commuted to life imprisonment). I could be wrong, but I don't think a lighter sentence is an option if they plead guilty.

With a heavyweight defence team behind them, they have every chance of any conviction sentence here being overturned at the Court of Appeal. At 20+ years old, a risk worth taking, IMO.

The Prosecution is going for the Death Penalty last I checked. You are not looking at a murder here. You are looking at a Brutal Double Murder Plus Rape. So 3 crimes, where for sure 2 carry the Death Penalty and Rape another 15 to 20 years. If found guilty I see no reason why the maximum sentence would not be imposes, but this is up to the courts to decide. .

[bunglebag]

So.. whats the truth ... Sean M seems to contradict himself more than once and had to 'fix' some of his 'heat of the moment' social media comments on more than one occasion. I'm totally convinced he has all the answers

Sean also said he was among a group of people playing guitar on the beach near the scene.

The group was also suspected by the police as they were near the scene.

But Montriwat discredited the Briton’s claim saying in fact on the night of the murder an employee of a spa has told him she helped to wash and clean blood from the face and body of Mr Sean who is a friend of the murdered David Miller.

He said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

‘This is very suspicious,’ Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

There was also a Bristolian Chris Cooper from a Koh Tao dive school who came out and said he was drinking with Sean Mcanna that night. He then deleted his post from Facebook and had CSI remove the copy's as well. David CSI will verify this

http://news.sky.com/story/1339247/thai-murders-hannah-dna-matches-asian-men

McAnna said he had arranged to meet up with David that night but he didn't make it because he was sleeping off a hangover. McAnna's no wallflower. He's not got the face, physique or attitude to fade into the background from what I've seen in the press and on social media. If he was out that night drinking on Koh Tao in public there will be witnesses. Maybe he was in one of his strange costumes and donning a wig as per some of the photos and was unrecognisable. Maybe he is one of the British witnesses for the defence. Who knows?

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/tag/sean-mcanna/

Various responses Sean gave to questions previously although I cannot advise the dates. I think the responses may have come via his soundcloud page originally. There is also a response to chris cooper (mentioned above) - about 2/3 down the page.

[Happy Grumpy]

Once the farce is all over and they've been found guilty and sentenced to death, I wonder if The General will be as quick to praise the trial's verdict as he was the 'fine' and outstanding police work on the case.

[StealthEnergiser]

British tourist's last moments alive is shown on CCTV in Thailand

why hasn't number 9 been identified ? Or was identified early on in the investigation.

where is the rest of the cctv footage maybe he is one of the first suspects.

Maybe this is related

Police promised cash reward to buy false testimony: taxi driver

Speaking later to reporters, Prasit said: "I don't want to take any action against the policemen, but want to demonstrate my innocence and I will cooperate with other requests in the future. Just don't force me to acknowledge [something] I never knew [about]," he said.

Prasit admitted to celebrating with a football team after a match at an unnamed pub on the night of the murders, but said he knew nothing about the team members' activities or police suspicions about them.

He said some policemen approached him at 1.30pm on Monday trying to convince him to cooperate and let him go five hours later.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-promised-cash-reward-to-buy-false-testimony-30244573.html

British Witness

A British witness had taken a photo of two men pestering the female victim not long before she was raped and murdered. He went to her assistance. One of the two troublemakers identified by the British witness and appearing in the photo is the bar manager. He is the bar owner's brother or nephew.

The press reported that he refused to take a DNA test after the murders. And the British witness sought protection from the British Embassy in Bangkok after receiving death threats over the Internet.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

Meanwhile, a male university student yesterday showed up at the Metropolitan Police Bureau together with his mother and a lawyer to claim his innocence. The unnamed junior said he had been distraught by coverage of certain media outlets implicating him as a suspect in the murder of the two Britons.

Lawyer Atthakorn On-art said the man had an alibi and pictorial evidence of the student, 22, being in Bangkok at the time of the murders before dawn on September 15. He said the student skipped important classes despite coming exams, because he was stressed out by the reports. The student said he wanted an apology from the media for twisting facts against him.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Media-police-forensic-experts-leave-Koh-Tao-30244507.html

Chief reporter of The Daily Mirror Andy Lines said a contact had emailed from the island, expressing concern about the risk of investigators finding scapegoats, and hoped the Thai police would have DNA evidence to back up their case as soon as possible.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/British-media-sceptical-over-arrest-of-suspects-30244755.html

[GOLDBUGGY]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

Perhaps like a Dyed Blond Hair which was actually Black?

[catsanddogs]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

Perhaps like a Dyed Blond Hair which was actually Black?

Shouldn't be too difficult for a forensic department to establish whether a strand of hair has been dyed.

[Rykbanlor]

Sorry for my off topic post, I know it's adding to the bullshit on the thread, but since I have already suffered 2 or 3 arrogant personal attacks myself the irony on display was too hard to resist.

I will probably have been flagged for flaming, but at least i try to keep it polite.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

Perhaps like a Dyed Blond Hair which was actually Black?

Shouldn't be too difficult for a forensic department to establish whether a strand of hair has been dyed.

I honestly don't know.

[loonodingle]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

Perhaps like a Dyed Blond Hair which was actually Black?

I think the confusion with the B2 and blonde hair for one of the suspects was earlier in the year Wei had blonde highlights. However CCTV from the store clearly shows otherwise and the link was made because of his earlier colour change.

Unfortunately when you try to build a case by using selected cctv or statements and cant back it up with DNA results it would leave any reasonable person to be concerned the true killers are the 2 in court.

I don't know who done as none of us on here does but if they were my kids I would want to know the 2 people who get the death sentence are the correct ones. Not just a feeling I would want irrefutable evidence and I fear the familys will never get this as it stands at the moment.

The weight will always swing towards the police account despite DNA being used up, so the B2 really need the defence to throw a spanner in the works by introducing new evidence to dispute the version of events and I have a hunch that's what's going on now. I know they had they Autopsy results and it will have included the X-Rays.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to another forum has been removed.

Other inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

Edit: Posts replying to previously removed posts have now been removed.

[eliotness]

Please guys now that everyone has seen the horrific pictures of Hannah and David show some respect. Think of the family and friends of those poor young people, not only seeing those shocking explicit photos, but reading posts where "interested" readers are more concerned about slanging each other off than they are about the heartbroken families of the deceased.

[scorecard]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

By Khaosod English

Police bring Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to Koh Samui court on 9 July 2015.

BANGKOK The first week of the trial of two Burmese men accused of murdering British tourists on a Thai island last year has done little to shed light on a case that has been shrouded in mystery from the start.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, have been charged with murder, rape, and theft over the deaths of British travelers David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23. The tourists badly beaten bodies were found on Koh Taos Sairee beach in the early morning of 15 September 2014.

The gruesome murder shocked the idyllic resort island and captured the attention of the foreign press, who detailed polices every stumble in a wayward investigation that ended with the arrest of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo several weeks later.

The suspects initially confessed after being interrogated by police without a professional interpreter or lawyer, but later declared their innocence and said they were tortured. They could face the death penalty if convicted.

Suspicions that the Burmese men were used as scapegoats to wrap up a case that was threatening to harm Thailands tourist industry were compounded last year by reports of locals refusing the speak to journalists, citing fears of powerful families on the 21 km2 island.

Despite hopes that the first round of witness examinations in a court on nearby Koh Samui last week would provide clarity on the murder, questions remain about polices alleged watertight case, and rumors about a suspected cover-up continue to flourish.

'Used up evidence'

In response to the defense teams repeated calls for access to forensic evidence that the prosecution says links Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the rape and murder, police revealed in court that swabs taken from semen found in Witheridges body are no longer available because they were used up in the original testing, which was conducted privately.

For police to say they dont have these materials completely undermines the credibility of their investigation, said Andy Hall, a migrants' rights activist from the UK who is assisting the defendants.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626

-- Khaosod English 2015-07-13

Don't people understand that if they let these people go or find the them innocent then the case shall have to re open

Don't people reckon that the best thing to do is to back off

As if they push for the case to re open then.... Wel anything is possible

I think most people on this forum do actually want 'justice' to prevail. By 'justice' I don't mean the usual Thai type which can be bought by the rich and powerful, but the type that is fair to one and all. If this case is re opened, well yes, anything is possible, and the real perps might be found and punished. But, hey this LOS, and we all know that pigs don't fly, do they!

Lot's of interesting points.

Will pressure from outsiders (including local foreigners) help to bring real and fair justice, or hinder real justice? Good question and difficult to answer.

But surely no pressure whatever just reinforce the current situation of no justice for the poor.

Not OK.

[Happy Grumpy]

Are there any members, absolutely any members that still declare their belief that the 2 on trial are the guilty parties?

[Jonmarleesco]

'The suspicion of a cover-up is the latest twist ...' Far from being the latest twist, this was suspected right at the beginning; a suspicion that has never been dispelled, only reinforced.

[Thesticle]

Are there any members, absolutely any members that still declare their belief that the 2 on trial are the guilty parties?

I won't go as far as to say they are guilty but it wouldn't surprise me if they had some involvement . I believe there has been a cover up but the exact details of what happened are unknown. It's plausible that they were involved in some capacity. And before anyone bites my head off this is pure speculation on my part.

[thailandchilli]

Are there any members, absolutely any members that still declare their belief that the 2 on trial are the guilty parties?

Silence................I wonder why

Perhaps its the fact that the BBC are now also seeing this as not only a trial to get Justice for the victims and accused but a trial on the whole Thai Judicial system especially the RTP:

"This verdict is tending to hinge on whether the judge thinks the Thai Police are dishonest or simply incompetent"

Jonah Fisher BBC quoted from the end of the video here https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/videos/vb.596740650403664/868585033219223/?type=2&theater

[fish fingers]

I can't look at those pictures. Too horrible.

As for the morals of being armchair detectives, well, its possible that media gathering of evidence does help.

PS I had no idea there was a photo of suspects just beforehand

A British witness had taken a photo of two men pestering the female victim not long before she was raped and murdered. He went to her assistance. One of the two troublemakers identified by the British witness and appearing in the photo is the bar manager. He is the bar owner's brother or nephew.

[catsanddogs]

Please guys now that everyone has seen the horrific pictures of Hannah and David show some respect. Think of the family and friends of those poor young people, not only seeing those shocking explicit photos, but reading posts where "interested" readers are more concerned about slanging each other off than they are about the heartbroken families of the deceased.

I don't think you can assume 'everyone' has seen the pictures. I haven't and don't want to. Other posters have previously made it clear they haven't either and have no desire to.

[changnaam]

British tourist's last moments alive is shown on CCTV in Thailand

why hasn't number 9 been identified ? Or was identified early on in the investigation.

where is the rest of the cctv footage maybe he is one of the first suspects.

Maybe this is related

Police promised cash reward to buy false testimony: taxi driver

Speaking later to reporters, Prasit said: "I don't want to take any action against the policemen, but want to demonstrate my innocence and I will cooperate with other requests in the future. Just don't force me to acknowledge [something] I never knew [about]," he said.

Prasit admitted to celebrating with a football team after a match at an unnamed pub on the night of the murders, but said he knew nothing about the team members' activities or police suspicions about them.

He said some policemen approached him at 1.30pm on Monday trying to convince him to cooperate and let him go five hours later.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-promised-cash-reward-to-buy-false-testimony-30244573.html

British Witness

A British witness had taken a photo of two men pestering the female victim not long before she was raped and murdered. He went to her assistance. One of the two troublemakers identified by the British witness and appearing in the photo is the bar manager. He is the bar owner's brother or nephew.

The press reported that he refused to take a DNA test after the murders. And the British witness sought protection from the British Embassy in Bangkok after receiving death threats over the Internet.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

Meanwhile, a male university student yesterday showed up at the Metropolitan Police Bureau together with his mother and a lawyer to claim his innocence. The unnamed junior said he had been distraught by coverage of certain media outlets implicating him as a suspect in the murder of the two Britons.

Lawyer Atthakorn On-art said the man had an alibi and pictorial evidence of the student, 22, being in Bangkok at the time of the murders before dawn on September 15. He said the student skipped important classes despite coming exams, because he was stressed out by the reports. The student said he wanted an apology from the media for twisting facts against him.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Media-police-forensic-experts-leave-Koh-Tao-30244507.html

Chief reporter of The Daily Mirror Andy Lines said a contact had emailed from the island, expressing concern about the risk of investigators finding scapegoats, and hoped the Thai police would have DNA evidence to back up their case as soon as possible.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/British-media-sceptical-over-arrest-of-suspects-30244755.html

Sorry could not find the original post with the video. Look again at 17 secs. Hannah looks to wave someone away on right of screen. Then for a split second there is a trailing arm. nomsods funny walk?

[changnaam]

Looking again it was a wave, and someone carrying something, not a swing arm.

[minikev]

Looking again it was a wave, and someone carrying something, not a swing arm.

Oh what! she may have waved at someone that may be carrying something? There is possible mileage in the no 9 shirt man but not real evidence unless there is something else that connects that shirt to a person, but someone carrying what? A beer, a handbag, a phone? it can't really be helpful can it.

I wish the person that was supposed to have photo's of a confrontation in a bar during the evening would come forward.

[catsanddogs]

Looking again it was a wave, and someone carrying something, not a swing arm.

Oh what! she may have waved at someone that may be carrying something? There is possible mileage in the no 9 shirt man but not real evidence unless there is something else that connects that shirt to a person, but someone carrying what? A beer, a handbag, a phone? it can't really be helpful can it.

I wish the person that was supposed to have photo's of a confrontation in a bar during the evening would come forward

I wish the person that was supposed to have photo's of a confrontation in a bar during the evening would come forward

Maybe they will when the defence gets its turn. CCTV of the foreign woman running around the time of the crimes would be good too. The footage of the woman they have said could be a suspect or Hannah herself. They chose not to release that though. Any answers on why not?

[JohnThailandJohn]

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.

The answer is simple - chain of command, the PM lifts the phone and talks with the Chief of Police, he tells him I need this sorted asap as I am being pressured directly by the British PM, the Chief of police reviews the case and sends someone he believes will take over and get a result, neither the PM or the COP will have instructed anyone to look for scape goats but will have been very direct in requiring progress and a resolution as quickly as possible - that is how I see it

Why would the British PM make such a call when UK investigators have indicated to the victim's family the police nabbed the right people for these crimes and the evidence is strong against them.

I suggest you read the post properly - there was nothing said about the British PM making any phone calls - the reference was to the Thai PM.

Yes because reading the post properly would indicate you said, "pressured directly by the British PM"

If you think some meaning or point is lost because I used the word "call" instead of saying, "pressured through unspecified means of direct communication" then it is simply an example of how far your willing to bury your head in the sand to avoid seeing the obvious ... let alone subtle points.

[sgtsabai]

The quarterback is back on the field. Welcome JTJ, NOT! Been out for a little refresher with your "coach" have you now.

[BritTim]

The lab wasn't able to work out what colour the hair was that was sent for testing!?!

The court hearing the trial of two Burmese migrant workers charged with the murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has ordered the re-testing of forensic evidence collected at the murder scene.

The Samui Provincial Court, in allowing the defence team's request, ordered the public prosecutors to work with investigators to send all remaining forensic evidence, including a shovel, to the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science for re-testing.

The trial has been adjourned to 22 July.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-backpacker-murders-court-orders-re-tests-forensic-evidence-1510520

Perhaps like a Dyed Blond Hair which was actually Black?

Shouldn't be too difficult for a forensic department to establish whether a strand of hair has been dyed.

Very easy, but highly inconvenient for the prosecution. That could well be why this piece of evidence is "lost" (or is it one of the pieces "used up"; it is difficult to keep track).