Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[JohnThailandJohn]

Based on the early reports and some pictures I thought it was a farang they knew because of how personal the attacks appeared to be on Hannah but regretfully there are some very close up pictures of her face and body on the internet and it doesn't at all seem to be anyone making a statement or it being personal (lack of better word). It was just brutal as one would suspect based on the weapons involved. In fact in one picture it shows tissue on the rocks behind her head that doesn't look at all to be splatter but looked like her head may have been bashed on the rock ... this is just shear speculation of course and makes me feel sick to speak and think about but when I saw the photos the material on the rock behind her head is was first jumped out at me as was the fact her face was covered in blood but didn't appear to have any injuries to her face. To be real clear, I didn't study the photos and looked fairly quickly as I stumbled across them doing a google search and had no motivation or desire to see them but when the popped up couldn't help but look for a moment and the two things that struck me was it not looking as personal as I had first been led to believe and the blood and tissue on the rock not looking like typical blood splatter patterns but certainly could have been. From what I saw and recall reading neither victim appeared to be killed in a way that would indicate overkill you often see in a rage or personal killing but seems clear somebody made sure she, and likely he, was dead.

In this instance John, I must disagree based on what I have seen with my own two eyes. David was beaten (and drowned) and was still pretty much intact. And without getting into graphic detail the same could not be said about poor Hannah. From what I saw, it was overkill, plain and simple, there is no other way to say it without being extremely distasteful. Not intact. It was a glaring difference between the two.

I too prefer not to get graphic and although I do believe this is a legitimate discussion, I just find it distasteful. However, I will ask ... was there any wounds to her face and body or just her head? From what I recall from reports and saw there was no direct wounds to the face or any other part of her body. Overkill is when you continue to strike, shoot or stab somebody well after what is need to kill the person. Shooting somebody in the head after a couple shots to the chest would not be overkill but rather assuring the person is dead. Stabbing somebody 27 times would be overkill as would be decapitating them as opposed to simply slitting their throat. Personal attacks usually involve a more personal attack such as things like strangling, frontal stabs or attack and striking the face to the point of breaking the face for lack of a better term. In a case of where there is a sexual element like a jealous lover then you might see strikes to sexual parts of the body but could also be attributed to other things too. Best I can recall and saw was the injuries to these two were designed to incapacitate and kill ... nothing more and nothing less. And yes striking somebody a few times in the head with the strongest blows you can is not overkill but rather designed to ensure death ... continuing to beat the head with dozens of blows would be overkill indicating a rage which often times might indicate the victim knew the killer but also could be something else such as a raged filled killer who hates women with a particular body type or hair color.

Edit, just to be clear overkill is going beyond what it takes to accomplish the goal. If the goal is to murder then you stop when you know this is accomplished. The same is true if the goal is to incapacitate. Depending on numerous factors a single blow to the head may or may not fully incapacitate or kill one person while it may knock out or kill another. Even fatal blows might take time before the victim stops showing signs of life and if the goal is to kill then a killer would not likely stop with these blows until the person showed no signs of life. Overkill might include hitting the person in other areas not designed to kill but rather to unleash rage or punishment on the victim.

Edited July 18, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[StealthEnergiser]

Notice how certain posters come back when potential evidence is shown or nomsod is mentioned and keep posting until it is not on the current view.

Edited July 18, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[Tony121]

if NS was the murderer why did he flee the island but leave the bodies and all the evidence there ?, he would have needed a twin engine speedboat to get him to the mainland, you could put the hoe and two bodies in a longtail drive a mile out an by the time the bodies showed up the dna would have gone Hannahs wounds could be passed of as damage from a boat propeller.

Two people having fun in the sea at night drowned case closed.

I don;t know the layout of the island. Could he have done that from Sairee beach? If he did leave on a speedboat, where from? If it was not at the scene then they would be dragging a couple of bodies along for whoever might be out to see. Plus add one or two more people (boat crew) to the list of people who they need to keep their mouths shut. It may have been too much trouble to deal with as you suggest, when dawn is closing in.

Google images of the beach easy to get a boat there

Boat crew are already needed to get NS of the island and will need to go to the mainland and considering he VIP/mafia I doubt he would risk it on a longtail so twin engine speed boat to Chumphon,

[GOLDBUGGY]

I'd like to ask the few folks here who think B2 did this.. Why is Mon seen in photos stalking Sean in the 7-11? Sean was hiding behind the counter pleading for help and saying if he was killed it was Mon.... So, why would Sean make this up? What's the motivation there? Why is Sean avoiding this like The Plague? Because there is a more than credible threat on his life if he doesn't cooperate.

Who knows? Maybe it was a personal thing like he was stealing money from his employer, or was doing things with his wife he didn't like. Or he insulted him first. Or said something behind his back and when he found out he didn't like it one bit.

That is certainly more plausible then trying to make him confess to a crime he did not commit and his DNA and Alibi would prove he didn't do it. So don't you think that this more reasonable then trying to pin a murder on him that would not stick?

If I was caught with my hand in the cookie jar, or with his wife, I certainly would want the world to know about it. I would keep a low profile. But he may be a witness for the Defense so lets see what he has to say.

[thailandchilli]

"Police revealed that the two Thais had been interviewed but were released after refusing to provide DNA samples." http://time.com/3420299/thailand-koh-tao-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller/

Also in the above article is the statement from the RTP that 2 murder weapons were found, this has been reported multiple times as a shovel and stick, what happened to those or was it all to inconvenient?

[boomerangutang]

Ok, you wanna talk about Mon for a minute. Let's talk about him. He's the kind of guy who knows lots about what goes on - on his island, particularly in the area close to his bar, where the crime took place. It's no fluke that early on, RTP questioned him intensely for 3 hours non-stop. He claims it was himself who was shown in Running Man videos. That's preposterous and early on, RTP didn't believe it either. Indeed, the first RTP team was actively looking for Mon's nephew - who resembles Running Man perfectly. Mon wanted to divert the police's attention. The ruse only worked because Panya's superiors in Bkk were pulling the marionette strings.

Mon is a fix-it guy. I can't say whether he was actively involved in the crime (my hunch is he was, though I think it was NS who killed Hannah). I think there were also a few other men involved, all of whom friends with Mon and probably also connected to his bar. Mon likely manipulated the crime scene before the police arrived - even before the migrant gardener alerted him. Am surprised the hoe wasn't tossed far away or buried, though it was wiped at least once before forensics got it.

There's a lot more I could say, and have said in dozens of prior posts.

Incidentally, If I had ventured, just before the trial started, that RTP would admit to bungling up the DNA trail so thoroughly, RTP echoers would be jumping down my throat, to wit, "How dare you say that. You conspiracy theorist! You have an agenda, because you hate Thai police, blah blah blah." Of course, they'd all be wrong, as they have for the past 10 months. And we're just a few days from Act II of the trial - which is competing with the re-enactment - to see which is more farcical.

Addendum: When I read or hear of RTP doing a good job, I write (blog posts, letters to the Editor of newspapers) commending them. I know they can do a good job when they try. Unfortunately, they're trying to do a frame-up in this KT case, and their ruse is falling down all around them.

Why don't you say that Mon was brought in for questioning by the Police as at one point he was a suspect. But when the Police discovered his DNA didn't match Hannah's he was released, like the Football Team, Fast Boat Driver, David Millers Friend and Brother, and anyone else I may have missed.

Once you say his DNA cleared him as a suspect there is no need to say anymore. He is not on trail here for Rape and Murder.

I did write what you challenge me to say ("Mon was brought in for questioning by the Police as at one point he was a suspect"). Why challenge me to do something I already did in the post you're referring to? So, we agree on something. Fine.

But your closing sentence reeks of naivete. 'No need to say anymore about Mon - because his DNA cleared him....?' Get real. For ten months the DNA trail has been skewed by RTP. Actually worse than skewed, it's been lied about - and more proofs of that will ensue as the trial continues. One thing should happen, if it's proven that RTP deliberately skewed the DNA announcements to frame anyone: Those same RTP should be disciplined to the full extent. Not just the 1,2 or 3 top brass at the eye of the pyramid, but every official who played a part in deliberately misrepresenting the DNA trail. This should not end with mere 'assignments to inactive posts' ....but with something tangible, like large fines and prison time. I suggest 5 years each for lower-downs, and 15 years each for those at the top who were orchestrating it, if it's proven in court (for many of us, the proofs are already plain to see).

[minikev]

Based on the early reports and some pictures I thought it was a farang they knew because of how personal the attacks appeared to be on Hannah but regretfully there are some very close up pictures of her face and body on the internet and it doesn't at all seem to be anyone making a statement or it being personal (lack of better word). It was just brutal as one would suspect based on the weapons involved. In fact in one picture it shows tissue on the rocks behind her head that doesn't look at all to be splatter but looked like her head may have been bashed on the rock ... this is just shear speculation of course and makes me feel sick to speak and think about but when I saw the photos the material on the rock behind her head is was first jumped out at me as was the fact her face was covered in blood but didn't appear to have any injuries to her face. To be real clear, I didn't study the photos and looked fairly quickly as I stumbled across them doing a google search and had no motivation or desire to see them but when the popped up couldn't help but look for a moment and the two things that struck me was it not looking as personal as I had first been led to believe and the blood and tissue on the rock not looking like typical blood splatter patterns but certainly could have been. From what I saw and recall reading neither victim appeared to be killed in a way that would indicate overkill you often see in a rage or personal killing but seems clear somebody made sure she, and likely he, was dead.

In this instance John, I must disagree based on what I have seen with my own two eyes. David was beaten (and drowned) and was still pretty much intact. And without getting into graphic detail the same could not be said about poor Hannah. From what I saw, it was overkill, plain and simple, there is no other way to say it without being extremely distasteful. Not intact. It was a glaring difference between the two.

I too prefer not to get graphic and although I do believe this is a legitimate discussion, I just find it distasteful. However, I will ask ... was there any wounds to her face and body or just her head? From what I recall from reports and saw there was no direct wounds to the face or any other part of her body. Overkill is when you continue to strike, shoot or stab somebody well after what is need to kill the person. Shooting somebody in the head after a couple shots to the chest would not be overkill but rather assuring the person is dead. Stabbing somebody 27 times would be overkill as would be decapitating them as opposed to simply slitting their throat. Personal attacks usually involve a more personal attack such as things like strangling, frontal stabs or attack and striking the face to the point of breaking the face for lack of a better term. In a case of where there is a sexual element like a jealous lover then you might see strikes to sexual parts of the body but could also be attributed to other things too. Best I can recall and saw was the injuries to these two were designed to incapacitate and kill ... nothing more and nothing less. And yes striking somebody a few times in the head with the strongest blows you can is not overkill but rather designed to ensure death ... continuing to beat the head with dozens of blows would be overkill indicating a rage which often times might indicate the victim knew the killer but also could be something else such as a raged filled killer who hates women with a particular body type or hair color.

JTJ we are a long long way into the discussion of what possibly happened here. Your last statement leaves me flabbergasted!

Did you see the pictures of poor Hannah?

Definitely overkill.

Not only in the horrific attack on her which was for sure many blows but afterwards someone took the time to position her in a humiliating position. I'm so sorry for her family and also don't want to be graphic.

Anyone who has seen these pictures will have them imprinted in their brain for all time.

This was not simply a murder there was another motive to make a point. The crazy person or persons that did this are not human.

[BritTim]

Why don't you say that Mon was brought in for questioning by the Police as at one point he was a suspect. But when the Police discovered his DNA didn't match Hannah's he was released, like the Football Team, Fast Boat Driver, David Millers Friend and Brother, and anyone else I may have missed.

Once you say his DNA cleared him as a suspect there is no need to say anymore. He is not on trail here for Rape and Murder.

I would not be at all surprised to find that they cleared Mon by comparing his and Hannah's DNA. To me, that would ot be entirely convincing. Even comparing his DNA with semen DNA taken from Hannah's body would not, IMHO, eliminate him as a person of interest.

Mon seems to have known a great deal about the hoe (the alleged murder weapon). It seems to have been of great importance to him that it was found in the "correct" place. Assuming the partly blind beach cleaner moved it, how did Mon know this? How did he know it was the murder weapon?

[thailandchilli]

Based on the early reports and some pictures I thought it was a farang they knew because of how personal the attacks appeared to be on Hannah but regretfully there are some very close up pictures of her face and body on the internet and it doesn't at all seem to be anyone making a statement or it being personal (lack of better word). It was just brutal as one would suspect based on the weapons involved. In fact in one picture it shows tissue on the rocks behind her head that doesn't look at all to be splatter but looked like her head may have been bashed on the rock ... this is just shear speculation of course and makes me feel sick to speak and think about but when I saw the photos the material on the rock behind her head is was first jumped out at me as was the fact her face was covered in blood but didn't appear to have any injuries to her face. To be real clear, I didn't study the photos and looked fairly quickly as I stumbled across them doing a google search and had no motivation or desire to see them but when the popped up couldn't help but look for a moment and the two things that struck me was it not looking as personal as I had first been led to believe and the blood and tissue on the rock not looking like typical blood splatter patterns but certainly could have been. From what I saw and recall reading neither victim appeared to be killed in a way that would indicate overkill you often see in a rage or personal killing but seems clear somebody made sure she, and likely he, was dead.

In this instance John, I must disagree based on what I have seen with my own two eyes. David was beaten (and drowned) and was still pretty much intact. And without getting into graphic detail the same could not be said about poor Hannah. From what I saw, it was overkill, plain and simple, there is no other way to say it without being extremely distasteful. Not intact. It was a glaring difference between the two.

I too prefer not to get graphic and although I do believe this is a legitimate discussion, I just find it distasteful. However, I will ask ... was there any wounds to her face and body or just her head? From what I recall from reports and saw there was no direct wounds to the face or any other part of her body. Overkill is when you continue to strike, shoot or stab somebody well after what is need to kill the person. Shooting somebody in the head after a couple shots to the chest would not be overkill but rather assuring the person is dead. Stabbing somebody 27 times would be overkill as would be decapitating them as opposed to simply slitting their throat. Personal attacks usually involve a more personal attack such as things like strangling, frontal stabs or attack and striking the face to the point of breaking the face for lack of a better term. In a case of where there is a sexual element like a jealous lover then you might see strikes to sexual parts of the body but could also be attributed to other things too. Best I can recall and saw was the injuries to these two were designed to incapacitate and kill ... nothing more and nothing less. And yes striking somebody a few times in the head with the strongest blows you can is not overkill but rather designed to ensure death ... continuing to beat the head with dozens of blows would be overkill indicating a rage which often times might indicate the victim knew the killer but also could be something else such as a raged filled killer who hates women with a particular body type or hair color.

JTJ we are a long long way into the discussion of what possibly happened here. Your last statement leaves me flabbergasted!

Did you see the pictures of poor Hannah?

Definitely overkill.

Not only in the horrific attack on her which was for sure many blows but afterwards someone took the time to position her in a humiliating position. I'm so sorry for her family and also don't want to be graphic.

Anyone who has seen these pictures will have them imprinted in their brain for all time.

This was not simply a murder there was another motive to make a point. The crazy person or persons that did this are not human.

With bite marks also! How disturbing, the killer was in an act of something much more than murdering a girl he had raped after supposedly killing David first. Let also not forget that both put up a struggle. Hannah was apparently dragged away from the first attack spot, more evidence to suggest that her body was placed as it was.

Witheridge, meanwhile, was dragged away from the first attack spot, said the same police officer

B.P. 18th Sept

[minikev]

Just a theory!

A beautiful English rose arrives on a small island. Everything looks wonderful and she is intoxicated with the place, the weather, the freedom. She meets a young man, he is handsome and he knows the place well. He shows her some of the amazing views. She engages in intimate conversation and he sees this as romance. She is simply in love with the place and the newness. The next day or days he sees her in a night club and wants to show his trophy to his friends. She however is busy with other friends from home. He shows his distaste for this. A male friend sees this situation and asks the young man to back off.

He later having been shunned asks to talk with her and they go somewhere private. He has more than talking in his mind and the situation gets out of hand. They end up arguing and the friend from home after noticing she has been missing for a good while comes to the rescue. He or he and friends attack the friend from home and inflict heavy wounds. They drag him to the sea and now are very angry at the beautiful young lady for causing them to do this creating a very bad situation. They or him take it out on her.

Edited July 18, 2015 by minikev

[Thesticle]

G

Just a theory!

A beautiful English rose arrives on a small island. Everything looks wonderful and she is intoxicated with the place, the weather, the freedom. She meets a young man he is handsome and he know the place well. He shows her some of the amazing views. She engages in intimate conversation and he sees this as romance. She is simply in love with the place and the newness. The next day or days he sees her in a night club and wants to show his trophy to his friends. She however is busy with other friends from home. He shows his distaste for this. A male friend sees this situation and asks the young man to back off.

He later having been shunned asks to talk with her and they go somewhere private. He has more than talking in his mind and the situation gets out of hand. they end up arguing and the friend from home after noticing she has been missing for a good while comes to the rescue. He or he and friends attack the friend from home and inflict heavy wounds. They drag him to the sea and now are very angry at the beautiful young lady for causing them to do this creating a very bad situation. They or him take it out on her.

I really think you should keep these kind of speculations to yourself. It's not helpful in discerning the truth and rather distasteful.

[BritTim]

Just a theory!

A beautiful English rose arrives on a small island. Everything looks wonderful and she is intoxicated with the place, the weather, the freedom. She meets a young man he is handsome and he know the place well. He shows her some of the amazing views. She engages in intimate conversation and he sees this as romance. She is simply in love with the place and the newness. The next day or days he sees her in a night club and wants to show his trophy to his friends. She however is busy with other friends from home. He shows his distaste for this. A male friend sees this situation and asks the young man to back off.

He later having been shunned asks to talk with her and they go somewhere private. He has more than talking in his mind and the situation gets out of hand. they end up arguing and the friend from home after noticing she has been missing for a good while comes to the rescue. He or he and friends attack the friend from home and inflict heavy wounds. They drag him to the sea and now are very angry at the beautiful young lady for causing them to do this creating a very bad situation. They or him take it out on her.

Conceivable, as are about a hundred other reasonable ideas. We simply do not know. What I will say is that your theory is more probable than the one put forward by the RTP.

[Darkknight666]

I'd like to ask the few folks here who think B2 did this.. Why is Mon seen in photos stalking Sean in the 7-11? Sean was hiding behind the counter pleading for help and saying if he was killed it was Mon.... So, why would Sean make this up? What's the motivation there? Why is Sean avoiding this like The Plague? Because there is a more than credible threat on his life if he doesn't cooperate.

This has been discussed several times in the past. Mon and his police friend suspected that Sean could be the killer and tried to ask him a few questions . Sean got scared, possibly under the influence of drugs and alcohol, he had been out drinking in the bar all night. He ended up in 7 eleven where he took the famous pictures.

This is plausible story , just like the story about Mon trying to frame Sean and protect the "mafia" family.

Which one do you want to believe in ?

If you're trying to tell me Mon was assisting with the investigation and not a part, stop replying to me because you clearly have an agenda. Why didn't Mon call the cops to come get Sean the Murderer? Because he isn't re killer to anyone with a smidgen of common sense. Why would Sean hide from Mon and accuse him of being a killer? Why was Mon on the crime scene? I'll tell you, to help describe what the press would believe.

I don't know for sure what the B2's involvement is.... I do know Mon has a vested interest here and if you discount that you're by default, irrational.

[smedly]

I too prefer not to get graphic and although I do believe this is a legitimate discussion, I just find it distasteful. However, I will ask ... was there any wounds to her face and body or just her head? From what I recall from reports and saw there was no direct wounds to the face or any other part of her body. Overkill is when you continue to strike, shoot or stab somebody well after what is need to kill the person. Shooting somebody in the head after a couple shots to the chest would not be overkill but rather assuring the person is dead. Stabbing somebody 27 times would be overkill as would be decapitating them as opposed to simply slitting their throat. Personal attacks usually involve a more personal attack such as things like strangling, frontal stabs or attack and striking the face to the point of breaking the face for lack of a better term. In a case of where there is a sexual element like a jealous lover then you might see strikes to sexual parts of the body but could also be attributed to other things too. Best I can recall and saw was the injuries to these two were designed to incapacitate and kill ... nothing more and nothing less. And yes striking somebody a few times in the head with the strongest blows you can is not overkill but rather designed to ensure death ... continuing to beat the head with dozens of blows would be overkill indicating a rage which often times might indicate the victim knew the killer but also could be something else such as a raged filled killer who hates women with a particular body type or hair color.

JTJ we are a long long way into the discussion of what possibly happened here. Your last statement leaves me flabbergasted!

Did you see the pictures of poor Hannah?

Definitely overkill.

Not only in the horrific attack on her which was for sure many blows but afterwards someone took the time to position her in a humiliating position. I'm so sorry for her family and also don't want to be graphic.

Anyone who has seen these pictures will have them imprinted in their brain for all time.

This was not simply a murder there was another motive to make a point. The crazy person or persons that did this are not human.

sorry I do not agree, you need to consider certain things (as I have mentioned previously)

1. it was at night on a beach were visibility would be poor, not overkill just making sure once the course of action was decided (to kill her)

2. This hoe is a heavy sharp metal farm tool, it may have taken several blows to find the right one (at night)

3. Once a fatal blow was made the horrific damage IMO would not be unreasonable

I also believe she was killed because she was a witness to Davids murder who possibly arrived on the scene while the rape was taking place and was fatally attacked when he tried to intervene, from that time this incident turned from a rape on the beach to a rape and double murder, I also don't believe only 2x men were involved

[minikev]

I too prefer not to get graphic and although I do believe this is a legitimate discussion, I just find it distasteful. However, I will ask ... was there any wounds to her face and body or just her head? From what I recall from reports and saw there was no direct wounds to the face or any other part of her body. Overkill is when you continue to strike, shoot or stab somebody well after what is need to kill the person. Shooting somebody in the head after a couple shots to the chest would not be overkill but rather assuring the person is dead. Stabbing somebody 27 times would be overkill as would be decapitating them as opposed to simply slitting their throat. Personal attacks usually involve a more personal attack such as things like strangling, frontal stabs or attack and striking the face to the point of breaking the face for lack of a better term. In a case of where there is a sexual element like a jealous lover then you might see strikes to sexual parts of the body but could also be attributed to other things too. Best I can recall and saw was the injuries to these two were designed to incapacitate and kill ... nothing more and nothing less. And yes striking somebody a few times in the head with the strongest blows you can is not overkill but rather designed to ensure death ... continuing to beat the head with dozens of blows would be overkill indicating a rage which often times might indicate the victim knew the killer but also could be something else such as a raged filled killer who hates women with a particular body type or hair color.

JTJ we are a long long way into the discussion of what possibly happened here. Your last statement leaves me flabbergasted!

Did you see the pictures of poor Hannah?

Definitely overkill.

Not only in the horrific attack on her which was for sure many blows but afterwards someone took the time to position her in a humiliating position. I'm so sorry for her family and also don't want to be graphic.

Anyone who has seen these pictures will have them imprinted in their brain for all time.

This was not simply a murder there was another motive to make a point. The crazy person or persons that did this are not human.

sorry I do not agree, you need to consider certain things (as I have mentioned previously)

1. it was at night on a beach were visibility would be poor, not overkill just making sure once the course of action was decided (to kill her)

2. This hoe is a heavy sharp metal farm tool, it may have taken several blows to find the right one (at night)

3. Once a fatal blow was made the horrific damage IMO would not be unreasonable

I also believe she was killed because she was a witness to Davids murder who possibly arrived on the scene while the rape was taking place and was fatally attacked when he tried to intervene, from that time this incident turned from a rape on the beach to a rape and double murder, I also don't believe only 2x men were involved

How do you explain the positioning of Hannah's body?

[minikev]

G

Just a theory!

A beautiful English rose arrives on a small island. Everything looks wonderful and she is intoxicated with the place, the weather, the freedom. She meets a young man he is handsome and he know the place well. He shows her some of the amazing views. She engages in intimate conversation and he sees this as romance. She is simply in love with the place and the newness. The next day or days he sees her in a night club and wants to show his trophy to his friends. She however is busy with other friends from home. He shows his distaste for this. A male friend sees this situation and asks the young man to back off.

He later having been shunned asks to talk with her and they go somewhere private. He has more than talking in his mind and the situation gets out of hand. they end up arguing and the friend from home after noticing she has been missing for a good while comes to the rescue. He or he and friends attack the friend from home and inflict heavy wounds. They drag him to the sea and now are very angry at the beautiful young lady for causing them to do this creating a very bad situation. They or him take it out on her.

I really think you should keep these kind of speculations to yourself. It's not helpful in discerning the truth and rather distasteful.

Firstly I would like to say that if my post is distasteful in any way I apologies that is the last thing I want.

The police and prosecution have put forward a theory that as far as I can see has no real evidence to back it up. This theory is that 3 men sat on a log playing guitar and singing songs. One of them went to his girlfriends place and then 2 of them heard or saw a couple engaging in romance. They then became aroused so they snuck up and attacked David and dragged him to the sea and raped and killed Hannah.

My intention is to show that there could be many more reasons as to how these 2 young people came to have been murdered, the theory I posted here is literally that (a theory) and also has no evidence. Untill there is any real evidence that the B2 did this terrible crime they remain innocent in my opinion.

Truthfully I don't see a way to wrap this case in cotton wool if it is to be discussed it will of course offend people.

The crime was discusting and for that reason must be discussed if there is the minuscule chance it will help to find the real killers or help the defence of people accused that may not have committed these murders.

[PaPiPuPePo]

I am not for one minute accusing anybody of being sock puppets on this forum but this is a high profile case being watched world wide.

I am also aware the mods prefer us to to talk about them so this is a one off post to say there is possibly a group of sock puppets on this forum.

There are also thoughts that some people are shielding the headmans family and to better describe these type I have found a reference below.

It is really better to ignore the suspected people .

Sockpuppet (Internet)

A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term, a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock, originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an Internet community who spoke to, or about, themselves while pretending to be another person.^[1] The term now includes other misleading uses of online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a person or organization,^[2] or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website. A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym^[3] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer. Many online communities attempt to block sockpuppets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

sp1.jpg

There does seem to be some kind of tag-team thing going on, where a couple of indefatigable arguers for the propriety and perfection of the police investigation have disappeared, while a couple (?--I'm not following this closely beyond looking for new, useful info that may come up) of others have surfaced. It may just be nature abhorring a vacuum.

[sgtsabai]

and it could be that some of the mafia defenders are the same person.

[smedly]

I too prefer not to get graphic and although I do believe this is a legitimate discussion, I just find it distasteful. However, I will ask ... was there any wounds to her face and body or just her head? From what I recall from reports and saw there was no direct wounds to the face or any other part of her body. Overkill is when you continue to strike, shoot or stab somebody well after what is need to kill the person. Shooting somebody in the head after a couple shots to the chest would not be overkill but rather assuring the person is dead. Stabbing somebody 27 times would be overkill as would be decapitating them as opposed to simply slitting their throat. Personal attacks usually involve a more personal attack such as things like strangling, frontal stabs or attack and striking the face to the point of breaking the face for lack of a better term. In a case of where there is a sexual element like a jealous lover then you might see strikes to sexual parts of the body but could also be attributed to other things too. Best I can recall and saw was the injuries to these two were designed to incapacitate and kill ... nothing more and nothing less. And yes striking somebody a few times in the head with the strongest blows you can is not overkill but rather designed to ensure death ... continuing to beat the head with dozens of blows would be overkill indicating a rage which often times might indicate the victim knew the killer but also could be something else such as a raged filled killer who hates women with a particular body type or hair color.

JTJ we are a long long way into the discussion of what possibly happened here. Your last statement leaves me flabbergasted!

Did you see the pictures of poor Hannah?

Definitely overkill.

Not only in the horrific attack on her which was for sure many blows but afterwards someone took the time to position her in a humiliating position. I'm so sorry for her family and also don't want to be graphic.

Anyone who has seen these pictures will have them imprinted in their brain for all time.

This was not simply a murder there was another motive to make a point. The crazy person or persons that did this are not human.

sorry I do not agree, you need to consider certain things (as I have mentioned previously)

1. it was at night on a beach were visibility would be poor, not overkill just making sure once the course of action was decided (to kill her)

2. This hoe is a heavy sharp metal farm tool, it may have taken several blows to find the right one (at night)

3. Once a fatal blow was made the horrific damage IMO would not be unreasonable

I also believe she was killed because she was a witness to Davids murder who possibly arrived on the scene while the rape was taking place and was fatally attacked when he tried to intervene, from that time this incident turned from a rape on the beach to a rape and double murder, I also don't believe only 2x men were involved

How do you explain the positioning of Hannah's body?

who knows, maybe at some brainless level they dreamed an idea that moving the bodies and setting up a scene would somehow convince investigators that only David and Hannah were involved, they also may have moved the bodies out of view amongst the rocks the idea being that it would provide time for the murderers to leave the Island before discovery, don't forget this was not a planned well thought out operation

Edited July 18, 2015 by smedly

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Have you seen that Thailand promotion video that starts out saying "Thai people see the world differently" and the camera shot is of a man standing on his head looking up at the sky? It makes me laugh but it is the truth. They do see the world differently from a logical commonsense mindset of many foreigners. We see in Thailand where the law is applied and not applied depending on who stands before it and the corruption that most times is in play. Have you ever seen a motorbike with a whole family on it with their baby leading the pack? To a foreigner, from any first world country, you'd be shock and start ranting how this would be illegal in your country or how a unprotected baby would land the parents in jail for child endangerment. Not here. Even in this murder case from day one the Thai way and the Farang way have clashed. We know how the legal process, police investigations and evidence gathering are conducted in first world countries. I can't imagine what a world renowned DNA expert or a world renowned lawyer would think of this case. Maybe they would look at that Thailand promotion video curious to why Thais see the world differently then come here and be horrified to just how differently our views are.

[catsanddogs]

Not sure if anyone replied to a question I posted, but what is your view on the blond hair found in Hannah's hand? I'm assuming it wasnt her own

One of the burmese is meant to of had blonde highlights then dyed it back after murder.

No, because we see that one on CCTV buying cigarettes, and his hair was black.

Agreed

Seeing this still again reminds me of the discussions on here some time ago which centred around Maung Maung on CCTV wearing what appeared to be the tee shirt that Win is wearing in this still. Making me think about the RTP's claim that they had evidence of bloodied clothes belonging to the B2. Will be an eye opener possibly when Maung Maung is called to court.

[bunglebag]

I also believe she was killed because she was a witness to Davids murder who possibly arrived on the scene while the rape was taking place and was fatally attacked when he tried to intervene, from that time this incident turned from a rape on the beach to a rape and double murder, I also don't believe only 2x men were involved

This is my line of thought also

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

So if the DNA is thrown out then it comes down to motive, opportunity and witness statement. Let me remind people of the Orange Juice (OJ Simpson) trial. GUILTY was my call but found innocent. My point? The OJ Simpson trial appears to have had more damning witness testimonials, DNA evidence, and motive then what they have against these two Burmese boys.

Only if that damn bloody glove would have slipped on...

Edited July 18, 2015 by Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere

[bunglebag]

sorry I do not agree, you need to consider certain things (as I have mentioned previously)

1. it was at night on a beach were visibility would be poor, not overkill just making sure once the course of action was decided (to kill her)

2. This hoe is a heavy sharp metal farm tool, it may have taken several blows to find the right one (at night)

3. Once a fatal blow was made the horrific damage IMO would not be unreasonable

I also believe she was killed because she was a witness to Davids murder who possibly arrived on the scene while the rape was taking place and was fatally attacked when he tried to intervene, from that time this incident turned from a rape on the beach to a rape and double murder, I also don't believe only 2x men were involved

How do you explain the positioning of Hannah's body?

who knows, maybe at some brainless level they dreamed an idea that moving the bodies and setting up a scene would somehow convince investigators that only David and Hannah were involved, they also may have moved the bodies out of view amongst the rocks the idea being that it would provide time for the murderers to leave the Island before discovery, don't forget this was not a planned well thought out operation

The staging of the young lady is strange.

Can anyone say what the moon and weather were like that night i.e. what kind of natural low level light there may have been

Can anyone advise what time sunrise was that day?

And can anyone provide a time for high tide that night? By the time the pictures were taken it seems that the tide had at least partially reached (and then receded) the young lady's body as her foot was embedded in the sand somewhat, but that could have happened after the discovery of the scene.

Is it possible that 2 bodies were staged but the young man's got pulled out by the tide?

The single sock on the young man is also strange. If it was dark and more than one person was removing the victim's clothes to stage a scene then could they have missed the fact that they had missed one of his socks?

[balo]

A few of you are so naive. Do you think that the locals don't know who committed this crime? If the b2 had they would have been marched into police custody the following day. Any reasonable person would agree. It's logical that Thai thugs committed

Most locals were sleeping when the killings took place. They can only listen to the gossip and make up their own minds, of course they will look at the headman and the mafia family as suspects. But only the people that witnessed the murder knows who did it.

[catsanddogs]

I was driving past the village of Hemsby today with my beautiful daughter at my side. The sun burning bright onto the silent wheat fields, grazing cattle, sheep and winding roads of the beautiful Norfolk countryside. I was filled with gratitude at the beauty before and beside me and I was filled with grief at the unimaginable loss for the Witheridge family. I was thinking that they would be travelling this same road with their leaden hearts at the start and end of their long and arduous journeys to Thailand in the hope of some sense of justice for their daughter. And thinking also that Hannah would never travel these roads again, feel the warmth of a summers day, see the beauty of her homeland, or know the love of her family. I pray to a God I don't believe in that some sense of justice will prevail for the families of the victims - even if the only comfort they will take from it will be knowing the people who stole their children's lives will not be able to cause such suffering again.

[Nigeone]

I was driving past the village of Hemsby today with my beautiful daughter at my side. The sun burning bright onto the silent wheat fields, grazing cattle, sheep and winding roads of the beautiful Norfolk countryside. I was filled with gratitude at the beauty before and beside me and I was filled with grief at the unimaginable loss for the Witheridge family. I was thinking that they would be travelling this same road with their leaden hearts at the start and end of their long and arduous journeys to Thailand in the hope of some sense of justice for their daughter. And thinking also that Hannah would never travel these roads again, feel the warmth of a summers day, see the beauty of her homeland, or know the love of her family. I pray to a God I don't believe in that some sense of justice will prevail for the families of the victims - even if the only comfort they will take from it will be knowing the people who stole their children's lives will not be able to cause such suffering jagain.

Amen.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I too prefer not to get graphic and although I do believe this is a legitimate discussion, I just find it distasteful. However, I will ask ... was there any wounds to her face and body or just her head? From what I recall from reports and saw there was no direct wounds to the face or any other part of her body. Overkill is when you continue to strike, shoot or stab somebody well after what is need to kill the person. Shooting somebody in the head after a couple shots to the chest would not be overkill but rather assuring the person is dead. Stabbing somebody 27 times would be overkill as would be decapitating them as opposed to simply slitting their throat. Personal attacks usually involve a more personal attack such as things like strangling, frontal stabs or attack and striking the face to the point of breaking the face for lack of a better term. In a case of where there is a sexual element like a jealous lover then you might see strikes to sexual parts of the body but could also be attributed to other things too. Best I can recall and saw was the injuries to these two were designed to incapacitate and kill ... nothing more and nothing less. And yes striking somebody a few times in the head with the strongest blows you can is not overkill but rather designed to ensure death ... continuing to beat the head with dozens of blows would be overkill indicating a rage which often times might indicate the victim knew the killer but also could be something else such as a raged filled killer who hates women with a particular body type or hair color.

JTJ we are a long long way into the discussion of what possibly happened here. Your last statement leaves me flabbergasted!

Did you see the pictures of poor Hannah?

Definitely overkill.

Not only in the horrific attack on her which was for sure many blows but afterwards someone took the time to position her in a humiliating position. I'm so sorry for her family and also don't want to be graphic.

Anyone who has seen these pictures will have them imprinted in their brain for all time.

This was not simply a murder there was another motive to make a point. The crazy person or persons that did this are not human.

sorry I do not agree, you need to consider certain things (as I have mentioned previously)

1. it was at night on a beach were visibility would be poor, not overkill just making sure once the course of action was decided (to kill her)

2. This hoe is a heavy sharp metal farm tool, it may have taken several blows to find the right one (at night)

3. Once a fatal blow was made the horrific damage IMO would not be unreasonable

I also believe she was killed because she was a witness to Davids murder who possibly arrived on the scene while the rape was taking place and was fatally attacked when he tried to intervene, from that time this incident turned from a rape on the beach to a rape and double murder, I also don't believe only 2x men were involved

How do you explain the positioning of Hannah's body?

I don't but there are a number of possible scenarios including she was raped after being incapacitated or the final blows came while one of them was still on top of her (including hitting her head into the rocks) or two drunk rapist murders thought it would be funny or simply weren't done with sexually violating her after they killed her and on and on. But from what appeared as an ongoing report (vs. early reports that she wasn't raped, David was raped and so on) there was no indication she was tortured, strangled or blows to the body or the face and just a couple to her head which would accomplish the goal of killing. But forgetting all of this for a moment, even if there was overkill or added perversion it would not prove anything. Rape itself is a violent act and those who commit it are violent, the world is full of brutal rapes and murders done by strangers. You can also look at it this way, if it was somebody angry with her and wanted to hurt and kill her then there would be no reason for rape unless the killers happened to be a rapist too. All of this proves nothing except you can sometimes draw a profile of the killer based on physical evidence at the crime scene and the manner of the murders.

One other thing to consider is the detectives from the UK would have surely scene the photos and had a much better understanding of the injuries and evidence at the crime scene than us and this clearly was not a concern based on the family's statements after being briefed by them.

I do believe the UK Detectives given their knowledge of the case, including the autopsy in the UK, as well as their experience and resources in such crimes puts them in a much better position to draw plausible conclusions. If you are going to come up with plausible theories you need to look at everything and not focus on what you don't know or understand while disregarding what we presumably do know about the case.

Edited July 18, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[fish fingers]

Was there some kind of argument in a bar beforehand? I read there was

Did Hannah walk back alone? Who was the last english friend who was with her and did she go back to her hotel before coming back out?

[eliotness]

If it was the B2 who stumbled across Hannah and David being intimate, then at what point did they go and fetch the hoe ? Or did someone intent on violence grab the hoe and then go to the beach ? I think the latter is more probable.