Bars/restaurants for sale and restrictions on trade

[heybruce]

Don't know about that,

My local coffee shop lady is run off her feet with all the Chinese tour groups here this month, buying breakfasts and coffee.

Her busiest month and year ever ...............................

Good to know, but coffee shops are not affected by rules and regulations that are restricting the sale of alcohol and are not the subject of this topic.

It was just a suggestion that elderly white drunks may no longer be a viable target customer grouping in Chiang Mai.

Open that restaurant, but target the eating, smoothie, coffee consumers.

As far as I can see the mark up on coffee and smoothies is way higher than beer.

And there appear to be no restrictions on opening hours.

Definitely not just elderly white drunks. On Nimmanhamin bars are required to be closed--lights out and emptied of customers--by midnight. This requires last call well before midnight, and the people affected are almost entirely young Thais.

[Chiengmaijoe]

It was just a suggestion that elderly white drunks may no longer be a viable target customer grouping in Chiang Mai.

Open that restaurant, but target the eating, smoothie, coffee consumers.

As far as I can see the mark up on coffee and smoothies is way higher than beer.

And there appear to be no restrictions on opening hours.

But it isnt just the 'elderly white drunks' or even just the bars themselves..

3 or 4 years ago the new beer gardens springing up on middle ring rd were doing good trade.. Live music in many.. Lots of punters, beer girls, etc.. Around promenda (my exit from the city) some of them were jumping and 100s of people there when I would come home at 1 or 2 ish.. Kiss wang deang nightlcub was heaving with people, 100s out there and 4am also, lots of money being spent..

Along with all that trade was 100s of food stalls and other sideline biz along the roads which catered to the night customers.. Now theres barely a noodle stall all along the 1317.. Monkey has shut.. Kiss wang deang has gone.. Those middle ring road places are a ghost town, no more bands playing.

Thats a lot of people losing a lot of income.

At The White House restaurant on Chm-Lamphun rd I was asked for ID to get in, presumably to establish that I was over 20. In poor lighting I might pass for a young 50yr old, so I accepted the flattery. My wife says some of the places nearby are struggling now that midnight closing and under 20s being barred is being strictly enforced.

It must have been VERY dark Joe,but it must have made your evening.

regards Worgeordie

He was obviously a jobsworth as he was insisting on my ID until my wife told him to stop being so daft. To be fair though, I have since heard of a very big Thai place that was busted for serving alcohol to under 20s and, so I'm told, was fined about 10,000 baht per person. Even with strict entrance checks, the story goes that the next time he was raided they found two that may possibly have sneaked in and besides paying a fine the place was closed down for six months. I forget the name of the place but it is a big place right near the traffic lights at the intersection of the road from the old stadium and the road that heads towards Kamthieng , from the corner of the moat. It's certainly a big crackdown and since it's being enforced by the army the option of getting them to turn a blind eye doesn't seem to be available. Edited September 21, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe

[bangmai]

I donot wish to change the topic or take it off track but I think the reason Chiang Mai is going through this is it is known as Red shirt country. The powers that be are just making it tough for business's there.They are sending a message that Chiang mai can and will be heavily policed. Bars are the easiest target for this action

This is a myth about hitting "Red Shirt Territory" hard. Theyre doing it all over Thailand, I know for a fact having been there with my son on holiday that theyre doing it in Pai and Phayao, and also many other places, so its not a "Chiang Mai Red Shirt Revenge" thing, its all over the Country except Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket !!!

But WHY ?? Why dont they tell us?

Erm they are both other red areas..

Phuket yellow.. 4 am

Hua Hin (middle dem leaning) 2am but effectively as long as the OAPs there want.

Patts (mixture) 2 - 4 am.. Even later for some discos.

Bangkok (yellow controlled, red outskirts) 1 am- ish..

Udon Red (midnight to 1am)

Korat Red (12:30 to 1) dont know it well.

Chiang Mai Red (midnight).

You dont see a pattern ??

Phayao may even be redder than all the above. They had made them get rid of the beer promo signs (2 for 119, etc.) in Udon, at least three years ago.

Edited September 21, 2015 by bangmai

[kalbo123]

I think the red shirt territory comments are right, Chiang Mai is being punished at this moment.

Edited September 21, 2015 by kalbo123

[Chiengmaijoe]

So what rules do we have regarding alcohol sales that are now being enforced? Some not so uniformly.

Selling alcohol to anyone under 20.

Midnight closing.

No advertising alcohol. I heard that The Riverside is not allowed to have pictures inside the menu of the craft beers they sell!

No alcohol sales 2-5pm. Apparently being enforced on Loi Kroh rd.

Over the years I've seen the odd crackdown, but none as prolonged and widespread as this. Under these circumstances I would imagine plenty of bars that where struggling are either closing or trying to sell, and those trying to sell will be happy to get a buyer at any price. The days of someone paying 2.5m to take over a struggling business are gone. Good luck to the guy trying to get that much, but if I were him, I'd be open to all reasonable offers.

[Chiengmaijoe]

I think the red shirt territory comments are right, Chiang Mai is being punished at this moment.

As part of the reconciliation process or Returning Happiness To The People?

[worgeordie]

Lately there seems to have been crack downs on a lot of things,nothing that effects me,

but I am sure businesses in various fields have been hit,the final step would be prohibition,

and we know what happened then.Thailand is defiantly changing and maybe not for the

better.one wonders whats going to happen next.

regards worgeordie

[PostmanPat]

What next?........Theres that new movie made in Chiang Mai "No Escape" where an incoming Military regime tell the people that all the countrys problems are because of the foreign residents so go out and kill them all !! Hopefully fiction and far fetched !!

[LivinLOS]

Right. So every working person in the tourism industry is a Red Shirt who deserves to be punished? Every person who runs a restaurant, or a coffee shop, or a person who is a tour guide, or who sells tours to tourists, who is currently starting to fall down the slippery slope through reducing tourist numbers they all, every one of them deserve to be punished??

My partner is a tour guide/ tour arranger and is not a Red Shirt and her numbers are significantly down. Before anyone says it by the way,Chinese tourists dont buy tours they rent bikes and do it all themselves. My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

Of course they cant pick and choose.. but its blunt instrument..

Red states are dis-proportionally hurting economically... Red industries like rice farming are suffering.. Yellow states are being given a little more leeway.. Yellow industries like Rubber are being given some additional subsidy.. Those are facts which are not in dispute, if you wish to claim those facts are random occurrences, when they are clearly effected by government policy, up to you.

I personally think that the government knows exactly what its doing in this regard.

[LivinLOS]

Can someone answer this--is it legal to require all these places to close at midnight? I thought the law allowed a lot of them to stay open until 1 a.m.

The law is 12 midnight for all of the country outside of a few well defined 'entertainment areas' and even those are only 1 am.

IIRC there is no defined entertainment area in Chiang Mai.

[robblok]

Right. So every working person in the tourism industry is a Red Shirt who deserves to be punished? Every person who runs a restaurant, or a coffee shop, or a person who is a tour guide, or who sells tours to tourists, who is currently starting to fall down the slippery slope through reducing tourist numbers they all, every one of them deserve to be punished??

My partner is a tour guide/ tour arranger and is not a Red Shirt and her numbers are significantly down. Before anyone says it by the way,Chinese tourists dont buy tours they rent bikes and do it all themselves. My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

Of course they cant pick and choose.. but its blunt instrument..

Red states are dis-proportionally hurting economically... Red industries like rice farming are suffering.. Yellow states are being given a little more leeway.. Yellow industries like Rubber are being given some additional subsidy.. Those are facts which are not in dispute, if you wish to claim those facts are random occurrences, when they are clearly effected by government policy, up to you.

I personally think that the government knows exactly what its doing in this regard.

Kinda like when a certain prime minister punished the provinces that did not vote for him. Less subsidies less money and such. Tit for tat in Thai politics.

[AlexRRR]

If there targeting CM and the like but not the 3 main areas then obviously the powers to be have a master plan to contain certain activities.

The current administration set about to clean up the country if I recall correctly but I assume once they realised where the $ were being spent and who were ummm likely to suffer they modified there target areas....they may be on some sort of moral crusade.

Most countries, states, cities have town planning and within those cities zoning which is either residential, commercial, industrial etc it's possible this is some sort of version of that coupled with moral views of the current admin....any guess is a good guess and a bit of truth in everything I think.

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't know about that,

My local coffee shop lady is run off her feet with all the Chinese tour groups here this month, buying breakfasts and coffee.

Her busiest month and year ever ...............................

Good to know, but coffee shops are not affected by rules and regulations that are restricting the sale of alcohol and are not the subject of this topic.

It was just a suggestion that elderly white drunks may no longer be a viable target customer grouping in Chiang Mai.

Open that restaurant, but target the eating, smoothie, coffee consumers.

As far as I can see the mark up on coffee and smoothies is way higher than beer.

And there appear to be no restrictions on opening hours.

Definitely not just elderly white drunks. On Nimmanhamin bars are required to be closed--lights out and emptied of customers--by midnight. This requires last call well before midnight, and the people affected are almost entirely young Thais.

Looks back at OP ....... yes the original post was talking about a bar/restaurant business in Loi Kroh.

Which is the post I was answering.

Edited September 22, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Chiengmaijoe]

The bar is on Loi Kroh near the iron bridge.There is a For Sale sign outside the bar and a recent ad on a Chiang Mai Facebook group.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Right. So every working person in the tourism industry is a Red Shirt who deserves to be punished? Every person who runs a restaurant, or a coffee shop, or a person who is a tour guide, or who sells tours to tourists, who is currently starting to fall down the slippery slope through reducing tourist numbers they all, every one of them deserve to be punished??

My partner is a tour guide/ tour arranger and is not a Red Shirt and her numbers are significantly down. Before anyone says it by the way,Chinese tourists dont buy tours they rent bikes and do it all themselves. My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

Of course they cant pick and choose.. but its blunt instrument..

Red states are dis-proportionally hurting economically... Red industries like rice farming are suffering.. Yellow states are being given a little more leeway.. Yellow industries like Rubber are being given some additional subsidy.. Those are facts which are not in dispute, if you wish to claim those facts are random occurrences, when they are clearly effected by government policy, up to you.

I personally think that the government knows exactly what its doing in this regard.

Kinda like when a certain prime minister punished the provinces that did not vote for him. Less subsidies less money and such. Tit for tat in Thai politics.

The norm was to pour money into your own province, not punish others. Suphan Buri is as good an example of that as any. Personally, I can see how they might want to punish individual politicians but I'm not convinced that they are punishing whole regions.

[robblok]

Right. So every working person in the tourism industry is a Red Shirt who deserves to be punished? Every person who runs a restaurant, or a coffee shop, or a person who is a tour guide, or who sells tours to tourists, who is currently starting to fall down the slippery slope through reducing tourist numbers they all, every one of them deserve to be punished??

My partner is a tour guide/ tour arranger and is not a Red Shirt and her numbers are significantly down. Before anyone says it by the way,Chinese tourists dont buy tours they rent bikes and do it all themselves. My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

Of course they cant pick and choose.. but its blunt instrument..

Red states are dis-proportionally hurting economically... Red industries like rice farming are suffering.. Yellow states are being given a little more leeway.. Yellow industries like Rubber are being given some additional subsidy.. Those are facts which are not in dispute, if you wish to claim those facts are random occurrences, when they are clearly effected by government policy, up to you.

I personally think that the government knows exactly what its doing in this regard.

Kinda like when a certain prime minister punished the provinces that did not vote for him. Less subsidies less money and such. Tit for tat in Thai politics.

The norm was to pour money into your own province, not punish others. Suphan Buri is as good an example of that as any. Personally, I can see how they might want to punish individual politicians but I'm not convinced that they are punishing whole regions.

I think living in LOS does state the facts right and it could be as he says.. its not unheard of of punishing or rewarding provinces. Not saying its a good thing, just saying he could be right.. and if so you got a few more years of punishment to go till the government changes.

[arunsakda]

The Original Poster asks the very pertinent question.....Why? Why everything has to close at Midnight? Why the Police come around harrassing heavy handedly at 11.30. Why do they not seem to realise that this attitude will have a significantly detrimental effect on tourism in the longer term. I am not a "blogger" but am reliably informed that those who travel then pass on tips to others following behind are now saying:

"Chiang Mai? Dont go there if you want fun. Its shit now because everything has to close at Midnight..."

I was in BKK for the weekend just gone, and its same as ever......bars,pubs, restaurants, music venues, open until well past midnight, nightclubs and discos open until at least 4am, then street food accompanied by beer and cocktails ( if you want it....too much for me!) until breakfast time, and all the time, police taking absolutely no notice and in fact condoning it !!

So the OP is right, "WHY" is the question?

I don't personally hold the opinion that bars should close at midnight but if there is a law that says they must it should be a scandal that some trade outside of legal hours thanks to corruption. There aren't supposed to be bent cops sweating motorists for backhanders , and jet-ski thugs, and illegal land encroachments and eCigarettes, and all the rest. The last time I checked Thailand is not a colony of any foreign nation so sweaty blimps are not actually entitled to swill beer until 4AM cavorting with peasant gals or Burmese catamites. But to read these threads recently, which all soon divert quickly to subtle racism and Eurocentrism, that somehow it is their birthright, and somehow they are "better" than the busloads of Chinese newcomers.

"Why"? Perhaps it is not outside forces determined to "punish" CM but maybe there a a few decent leaders here who are determined to do the right thing and take the long term steps needed to eliminate corruption once and for all.

Edited September 22, 2015 by arunsakda

[heybruce]

Right. So every working person in the tourism industry is a Red Shirt who deserves to be punished? Every person who runs a restaurant, or a coffee shop, or a person who is a tour guide, or who sells tours to tourists, who is currently starting to fall down the slippery slope through reducing tourist numbers they all, every one of them deserve to be punished??

My partner is a tour guide/ tour arranger and is not a Red Shirt and her numbers are significantly down. Before anyone says it by the way,Chinese tourists dont buy tours they rent bikes and do it all themselves. My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

Of course they cant pick and choose.. but its blunt instrument..

Red states are dis-proportionally hurting economically... Red industries like rice farming are suffering.. Yellow states are being given a little more leeway.. Yellow industries like Rubber are being given some additional subsidy.. Those are facts which are not in dispute, if you wish to claim those facts are random occurrences, when they are clearly effected by government policy, up to you.

I personally think that the government knows exactly what its doing in this regard.

Kinda like when a certain prime minister punished the provinces that did not vote for him. Less subsidies less money and such. Tit for tat in Thai politics.

Somewhat off-topic, but a certain prime minister knew that 90% of government investment was taking place in Bangkok, which had less than 20% of the population. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21595453-both-sides-stand-must-back-down-or-risk-their-countrys-disintegration-way-out This Prime Minister figured out that a slightly more equitable distribution of government spending (only slightly, Bangkok still received 72% of public spending in 2012) would be very popular with the majority of voters, though very unpopular in Bangkok.

[heybruce]

Good to know, but coffee shops are not affected by rules and regulations that are restricting the sale of alcohol and are not the subject of this topic.

It was just a suggestion that elderly white drunks may no longer be a viable target customer grouping in Chiang Mai.

Open that restaurant, but target the eating, smoothie, coffee consumers.

As far as I can see the mark up on coffee and smoothies is way higher than beer.

And there appear to be no restrictions on opening hours.

Definitely not just elderly white drunks. On Nimmanhamin bars are required to be closed--lights out and emptied of customers--by midnight. This requires last call well before midnight, and the people affected are almost entirely young Thais.

Looks back at OP ....... yes the original post was talking about a bar/restaurant business in Loi Kroh.

Which is the post I was answering.

True, but the title of the topic is more general, and by failing to specify Loi Kroh businesses in you post your made your reply so general as to be unrepresentative of the situation in Chiang Mai. The restrictions on trade are affecting many more Thai people than western tourists and expats, and certainly more than elderly white drunks.

In fact, while I spend very little time on Loi Kroh, I'm not sure that "elderly white drunks" accurately describes the majority of the clientele. I also think the coffee shop market is pretty well saturated in Chiang Mai.

[Robert24]

The Original Poster asks the very pertinent question.....Why? Why everything has to close at Midnight? Why the Police come around harrassing heavy handedly at 11.30. Why do they not seem to realise that this attitude will have a significantly detrimental effect on tourism in the longer term. I am not a "blogger" but am reliably informed that those who travel then pass on tips to others following behind are now saying:

"Chiang Mai? Dont go there if you want fun. Its shit now because everything has to close at Midnight..."

I was in BKK for the weekend just gone, and its same as ever......bars,pubs, restaurants, music venues, open until well past midnight, nightclubs and discos open until at least 4am, then street food accompanied by beer and cocktails ( if you want it....too much for me!) until breakfast time, and all the time, police taking absolutely no notice and in fact condoning it !!

So the OP is right, "WHY" is the question?

No club open past midnight in Chiang Mai, really?

[MaeJoMTB]

In fact, while I spend very little time on Loi Kroh, I'm not sure that "elderly white drunks" accurately describes the majority of the clientele. I also think the coffee shop market is pretty well saturated in Chiang Mai.

Always room for another shop with an "angle".

Found one just this week, Mongs Bicycle, coffee and smoothie shop.

Purchased some parts for my bicycle, then sat and had a smoothie while he fitted the parts.

1,600bht for the parts, 40bht for the smoothie.

And most of the other customers were playing the same game.

[itsmylife]

Don't know about that,

My local coffee shop lady is run off her feet with all the Chinese tour groups here this month, buying breakfasts and coffee.

Her busiest month and year ever ...............................

Can i know where is the coffee shop ?

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't know about that,

My local coffee shop lady is run off her feet with all the Chinese tour groups here this month, buying breakfasts and coffee.

Her busiest month and year ever ...............................

Can i know where is the coffee shop ?

"The Dome",Huay Keow road, opposite the school, behind Elvira sewing.

Go after 9am to avoid the Chinese, they're out on day trips then.

Edited September 22, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Chiengmaijoe]

Don't know about that,

My local coffee shop lady is run off her feet with all the Chinese tour groups here this month, buying breakfasts and coffee.

Her busiest month and year ever ...............................

Can i know where is the coffee shop ?

"The Dome",Huay Keow road, opposite the school, behind Elvira sewing.

Go after 9am to avoid the Chinese, they're out on day trips then.

A common mistake amongst some posters here is assuming that all Chinese are cheap and rude. There are plenty of well-heeled Chinese in Chiang Mai with money to spend and manners to go with it. A decent chunk of my business is now Asian, but since I have menus in Chinese, Japanese and Korean then it's not hard to see why. With direct flights to Chiang Mai from Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Shanghai etc, there are plenty of new customers to replace the slightly declining western tourists. Making brochures, signs or whatever in different languages isn't that expensive or difficult so I'm surprised more people aren't doing it, even though they are getting to be more prevalent.

[Chicog]

The Original Poster asks the very pertinent question.....Why? Why everything has to close at Midnight? Why the Police come around harrassing heavy handedly at 11.30. Why do they not seem to realise that this attitude will have a significantly detrimental effect on tourism in the longer term. I am not a "blogger" but am reliably informed that those who travel then pass on tips to others following behind are now saying:

"Chiang Mai? Dont go there if you want fun. Its shit now because everything has to close at Midnight..."

I was in BKK for the weekend just gone, and its same as ever......bars,pubs, restaurants, music venues, open until well past midnight, nightclubs and discos open until at least 4am, then street food accompanied by beer and cocktails ( if you want it....too much for me!) until breakfast time, and all the time, police taking absolutely no notice and in fact condoning it !!

So the OP is right, "WHY" is the question?

No club open past midnight in Chiang Mai, really?

Not unless someone in a position of authority is making money out of it.

[Robert24]

The Original Poster asks the very pertinent question.....Why? Why everything has to close at Midnight? Why the Police come around harrassing heavy handedly at 11.30. Why do they not seem to realise that this attitude will have a significantly detrimental effect on tourism in the longer term. I am not a "blogger" but am reliably informed that those who travel then pass on tips to others following behind are now saying:

"Chiang Mai? Dont go there if you want fun. Its shit now because everything has to close at Midnight..."

I was in BKK for the weekend just gone, and its same as ever......bars,pubs, restaurants, music venues, open until well past midnight, nightclubs and discos open until at least 4am, then street food accompanied by beer and cocktails ( if you want it....too much for me!) until breakfast time, and all the time, police taking absolutely no notice and in fact condoning it !!

So the OP is right, "WHY" is the question?

No club open past midnight in Chiang Mai, really?

Not unless someone in a position of authority is making money out of it.

so all the usual clubs are still open well past midnight, right?

[Chicog]

The Original Poster asks the very pertinent question.....Why? Why everything has to close at Midnight? Why the Police come around harrassing heavy handedly at 11.30. Why do they not seem to realise that this attitude will have a significantly detrimental effect on tourism in the longer term. I am not a "blogger" but am reliably informed that those who travel then pass on tips to others following behind are now saying:

"Chiang Mai? Dont go there if you want fun. Its shit now because everything has to close at Midnight..."

I was in BKK for the weekend just gone, and its same as ever......bars,pubs, restaurants, music venues, open until well past midnight, nightclubs and discos open until at least 4am, then street food accompanied by beer and cocktails ( if you want it....too much for me!) until breakfast time, and all the time, police taking absolutely no notice and in fact condoning it !!

So the OP is right, "WHY" is the question?

No club open past midnight in Chiang Mai, really?

Not unless someone in a position of authority is making money out of it.

so all the usual clubs are still open well past midnight, right?

We'll have to get an update from our men on the ground.

[LivinLOS]

I don't personally hold the opinion that bars should close at midnight but if there is a law that says they must it should be a scandal that some trade outside of legal hours thanks to corruption. There aren't supposed to be bent cops sweating motorists for backhanders , and jet-ski thugs, and illegal land encroachments and eCigarettes, and all the rest. The last time I checked Thailand is not a colony of any foreign nation so sweaty blimps are not actually entitled to swill beer until 4AM cavorting with peasant gals or Burmese catamites. But to read these threads recently, which all soon divert quickly to subtle racism and Eurocentrism, that somehow it is their birthright, and somehow they are "better" than the busloads of Chinese newcomers.

"Why"? Perhaps it is not outside forces determined to "punish" CM but maybe there a a few decent leaders here who are determined to do the right thing and take the long term steps needed to eliminate corruption once and for all.

Except that has been the standard MO for the last 20 years or so..

And is still the MO is most of the (non Red) parts of the country..

So 'why here' and 'why now' seem valid questions no ?? I mean if they are also closing down Bangla Rd at 12pm and walking street at 12pm.. Then you could say it was new policy and being fairly implemented, agree with it or not, but selective implementation ?? That starts to get a 'is that fair' aspect.

[LivinLOS]

No club open past midnight in Chiang Mai, really?

Not unless someone in a position of authority is making money out of it.

so all the usual clubs are still open well past midnight, right?

We'll have to get an update from our men on the ground.

Spicy and Zoe have some leeway sometimes.. Zoe seems a bit more controlled..

Fabrique ?? Differ Inc ?? Last I heard (fortnight back) these were 'closing' just after midnight.. Takes a good 30 plus minutes to get closed so call it a 1am perhaps..

Warm up ?? No idea.. Bubbles Hotshots and all those are gone now no ?? The western planned new 'dance club' that was going in near Differ got shelved.. Monkeys gone.. Kiss Wang Deang gone..

What else is there ?? Tawan Deang ?? Not a clue on their kick out time..

[Robert24]

before people only went to Fabrique and the other clubs when all the bars closed at midnight. I was there last time about 2 months ago and left around 3.30am and it didn't look like they were closing soon. Same for Infiniti.