“Good guys in, bad guys out”, says Thailand Immigration chief

[Jools]

Trying to compare the US or any western country to Thailand is a feat of hubris fully consistent with the Thai mindset. You can't simultaneously have your hand out and bite the hell out of your economic benefactors. Have you checked out the truly enlightened visa terms for those entering Cambodia?? There is at least one book on the market which suggests that Thailand should be concerned about Cambodia. What is overlooked is that you have to understand that you have a problem in order to ADDRESS the problem. Flexing muscles when you are an economic weakling is merely posturing.

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

What "abuse"? All they're asking for is that when your permission to stay in Thailand expires that you leave...what's so extraordinary about that? I mean, even the US is trying to implement this policy now. (And I believe it's the same in Cambodia...that they don't give open-ended entry stamps out upon arrival.)

[laislica]

a. It seems to be guys with beards, who are the bad "aliens".

b. Grabbing a few hundred farang, living somewhere, no doubt supporting a family or three, will cure all the serious problems Thailand has. Glad to see the local coppers prioritising. Makes me feel warm and welcome.

Yes, a bit of fairness would be nice.

Warm and welcome eh?

Like my wife is in Spain, now that would be nice.

A "Foreigners ID", good for five years and free.

Come and go as she likes, no re-entry permit,

just show Thai passport and Spanish ID at border control.

Can buy land in her name.

Conditions are;

stay in the country 181 days or more per year.

Stay married to me.

To get the ID we had to prove that our Thai marriage was real.

That we lived together.

We were required to swear such an oath at a Spanish British Consulate.

She needed a clean bill of health.

A clean Police record.

I would gladly do that rather that;

Have her report my arrival to stay in her house or risk a fine or complications when renewing my extension.

Report every 90 days.

Pay 1,900b for the annual extension.

Pay 1,000b roe each re-enter permit.

Keep a whole bunch of money tied up in a Thai bank and pay 100b for a letter to confirm this or

visit my Embassy and pay almost 3,000b to have them certify that I have monthly funds off shore.

How about my owning land as well?

[WorldTravellerMUC]

What I would like to see clarified is if you have a 1 year non immgrant B Visa and a valid work permit. Depending on what was chosen it is EITHER 90 days reporting OR you must leave the county.

If you you fail to leave (did happen to a colleague of mine once) and you would have been cought then there would be a ban?

Now I call this nonsense. If you have a 1 year Visa, Work Permit and pay taxes every month, there really should be no need to leave the county or do reporting since they see from the SSF and the tax that you are there.

[Maestro]

[...what is the penalty for overstaying under 90 days!!!!

It depends on whether you surrender or get arrested and prosecuted.

[Jools]

The illegal immigrants in the USA and Europe tend to be low income persons. Most farangs in Thailand earn more than the average Thai, no basis for comparison, really, just raw xenophobia.

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Ridiculous comment , the amount of money the overstays contribute to the Thai economy would be so minuscule it would hardly register, definitely not anything like cash cows, overstays only cause problem for legal people. you can not do it in other countries why in Thailand.

No illegal immigrants in say Australia or the US, really? Or in Europe (sorry, in Europe, they are called refugees...)?

[gandalf12]

The answer is simple get a visa or a visa exemption. Good for them coming down on this now maybe the rest of us who play by the rules wont have as hard a time of it

What about asylum seekers who cannot return to their country and to whom the visas are outrageously expensive and unaffordable?

What about them? How many can not return to their own country compared with how many dont want to?

[Coyoti]

I have been through check points near the border dozens of times in the past and never asked to show my passport. They seem to check most every "non-farang" in the van, car or bus I happen to be in though. I expect I'll have to start showing my passport as well when these new regs go into effect. No problem.

[sead]

So i am taking this as all farangs are crooks. Are theese penalties bribe adjusted?

[Maestro]

What I would like to see clarified is if you have a 1 year non immgrant B Visa and a valid work permit. Depending on what was chosen it is EITHER 90 days reporting OR you must leave the county.

If you you fail to leave (did happen to a colleague of mine once) and you would have been cought then there would be a ban?

Now I call this nonsense. If you have a 1 year Visa, Work Permit and pay taxes every month, there really should be no need to leave the county or do reporting since they see from the SSF and the tax that you are there.

A visa is not a permission to stay in Thailand.

Your multiple-entry non-B visa allows you to travel to Thailand for an unlimited number of times until the "enter before date" show on the visa.

On every arrival in Thailand, you will be given permission to stay until the date shown in the arrival stamp.

[Thaidream]

Thailand is no longer a prime destination for those looking to stay or invest. there are simply too many regulations concerning Visas; reporting requirements; work permits etc. Many people are voting with their feet. As one of the posters indicated Cambodia is now becoming a preferred destination. Obtaining a long term visa is easy, rents are cheap and the food is similar to Thai. In the years to come Thailand will be heavily penalized for its stubbornness regarding these type of issues. Another example is the METV, which is absolutely worthless due to its requirements. If I had not been here for so long and invested in houses and cars, I would be seriously looking at other options. Thailand is becoming to much like the West- bureaucracy laden and regulation prone. Most old Thai hands came to Thailand because it represented a new.bold future, much like the Westward push in the United States. It is starting to look like and feel like the future we wanted to avoid.

[elviajero]

Thailand is no longer a prime destination for those looking to stay or invest. there are simply too many regulations concerning Visas; reporting requirements; work permits etc. Many people are voting with their feet. As one of the posters indicated Cambodia is now becoming a preferred destination. Obtaining a long term visa is easy, rents are cheap and the food is similar to Thai. In the years to come Thailand will be heavily penalized for its stubbornness regarding these type of issues. Another example is the METV, which is absolutely worthless due to its requirements. If I had not been here for so long and invested in houses and cars, I would be seriously looking at other options. Thailand is becoming to much like the West- bureaucracy laden and regulation prone. Most old Thai hands came to Thailand because it represented a new.bold future, much like the Westward push in the United States. It is starting to look like and feel like the future we wanted to avoid.

Complete and utter nonsense from beginning to end!

[gunnerterry]

So an over stay of less than 90 days does not get you banned?

Not banned in case you "surrender to the authorities" but to be "crystal clear" they would have had to explain what happens if you're a couple days over and stopped on the way to the airport.

Not unreasonably they probably don't want to go in print on that: if the 500 B fine per day applies (highly likely) they would not want to publicise that as an easy alternative to a regular visa. Hence left unsaid.

The 500 baht a day overstay fine still applies up to 20k i believe , This week i was fined 14500 ( 29 days) i did not overstay as per the visa's/extension of stay stamps in my passport but the cancellation date of my workpermit and my new visa (obtained because i changed school and the rules are you have to get a new visa and workpermit!!)was out by 29 days therefore i was fined on this technicality. They are getting very strict so beware!!

[menzies233]

I remember going to Bangkok Immigration one time to obtain an extension of stay for 1 day-paid the fee- I did not want to have an overstay stamp in my passport as I have never overstayed. The Immigration officers at the time laughed at me and actually encouraged me to pay the fine at the airport. I did not take their advice. Is it any wonder that people have overstayed as in the past the Immigration officials looked at it very liberally . Overstaying individuals have not caused any type of tightening of Visa regulations for those who have never overstayed. I have had almost every type of Visa Thailand has and been to Immigration numerous times. I have never noticed any difference as a result of someone else overstaying. This is just another reaction by the current regime to what they view as some unknown threat. I personally find it to be overly punitive and worded in a way that makes it too easy for those with money to carry on as usual. It will be those with lower incomes who have money issues that causes them to overstay to be banned. The criminal elements you see today will still be here for years to come- unafraid and unaffected. The so called 'bad guys' have become the poor foreigners who overstay because things happen in life beyond their control.

I was doing a 1 year extension up here in Chiang Mai about 10 years ago, I had completed the 1st interview and submitted all the documents and was given the consideration stamp to return in a month. I returned on time and was given yet another month of "under consideration". Unfortunately I missed the day and was one day late, they charged me 200 Baht and stamped the overstay in my passport.

[Thaidream]

I would be interested to know why my opinion is wrong and yours is correct! Please enlighten me. I would say my 50 years here gives me a little bit of credibility.

[FritsSikkink]

Just don't know why The Immigration chief does not welcome tourists on a 6 month visa without having to leave the country every 60 days one way to get tourists back to thailand!!

most real tourists don't need one

Not quite true! A friend from the US is here right now, is staying for more than 30 days, going to Laos next week to get another 30 days. Agree with John Davis, at least a standard three months tourist visa would solve a lot of problems for many tourists (backpackers in particular, possibly?). And I would think for Immigration too? Three months visa plus show a return ticket, easy?

By the way: Does the Thailand Immigration Chief imply that if you are not on overstay, you are automatically a 'good guy'???

with a single tourist visa you get 60 days which you can extend with 30 days without leaving

[menzies233]

Thailand is no longer a prime destination for those looking to stay or invest. there are simply too many regulations concerning Visas; reporting requirements; work permits etc. Many people are voting with their feet. As one of the posters indicated Cambodia is now becoming a preferred destination. Obtaining a long term visa is easy, rents are cheap and the food is similar to Thai. In the years to come Thailand will be heavily penalized for its stubbornness regarding these type of issues. Another example is the METV, which is absolutely worthless due to its requirements. If I had not been here for so long and invested in houses and cars, I would be seriously looking at other options. Thailand is becoming to much like the West- bureaucracy laden and regulation prone. Most old Thai hands came to Thailand because it represented a new.bold future, much like the Westward push in the United States. It is starting to look like and feel like the future we wanted to avoid.

If I wasn't such an optimist at times, I would have started to begin to think that they really do not want anyone here on anything more than a maximum of 30 days vacation and seem to make it more and more difficult to keep getting extensions.

[FritsSikkink]

Ain't it strange, no Thai official has ever asked me if I have taken care of Thai nationals, whether I have put a Thai kid through school cos his father don't give a shit......Ain't that strange........

no,why should he

[mgjackson69]

The answer is simple get a visa or a visa exemption. Good for them coming down on this now maybe the rest of us who play by the rules wont have as hard a time of it

What about asylum seekers who cannot return to their country and to whom the visas are outrageously expensive and unaffordable?

What about them?

If someone is truly seeking asylum then they would fall under some different rules and be treated on a case-by-case basis.

"Seeking asylum" does not mean "I do not want to go home".

[mgjackson69]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Ridiculous comment , the amount of money the overstays contribute to the Thai economy would be so minuscule it would hardly register, definitely not anything like cash cows, overstays only cause problem for legal people. you can not do it in other countries why in Thailand.

Every plonker in Chiang Mai sitting on a bar stool nursing that one draft beer for two hours thinks he is some sort of "cash cow" for Thailand.

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with being in Chiang Mai, on a barstool, with a beer in front of you....but one needs to keep the perspective of what they are contributing.

[johnnybgood]

After many years and millions of baht spent here I would like to say "up to you".

Anything else would be censored

Edited January 16, 2016 by johnnybgood

[hawker9000]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Maybe, but I'm not so sure that overstayers, particularly long- term overstayers, are quite the "cash cows" you make them out to be ... I suspect the Immigration authorities share the same skepticism anyway.

[rexall]

By the looks of it, this clears up any ambiguity of whether people overstaying less than 90 days would be prosecuted--as long as said people turn themselves in. Still wondering what would happen to someone who overstays a week and happens to get caught.

The consequences of overstay have always been worse if you get arrested. A couple (?) of years ago, a "visa run" bus or van was on it's way to the border, at Trat I believe. Stoped by the cops. Several overstayers removed from the bus, arrested and jailed. However, if they had made it to the border, they would simply have been allowed to exit with a fine. Although there seemed to be something "fishy" about that incident, and I never heard an explanaation, the cops were just playing by the rules. I am not sure I understand the logic, but it's nothing new.

[madpat]

What are they gonna do with the farang that does not have a current passport because theirs has expired how can they prove where that person has come from, look at the U K many illegals get caught then get released because they are told to report every week but disappear once again.

Cartoon should get an award tho for the strangest government warning ever

[madpat]

Nowhere is a prime destination nowadays as terrorism , murder and corrupt officialdom is everywhere Inc. the UK

I love Thailand and absolutely love Chaiyaphum where I am staying now with my partner, we have been together 3years and has never asked for anything, no sick buffalo emails or such,,, her family and whole village has welcomed me and have had some great bbq's and drink nights this is the Thailand I want I have done my apprenticeship in Pattaya and Bangkok love to visit them both for a couple of days but the noise, pollution and same same old bars hold no attraction for me.

[ChrisY1]

Why overstay??

[The manic]

Where are the tattoos- a good indicator of criminality

[laislica]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Ridiculous comment , the amount of money the overstays contribute to the Thai economy would be so minuscule it would hardly register, definitely not anything like cash cows, overstays only cause problem for legal people. you can not do it in other countries why in Thailand.

Every plonker in Chiang Mai sitting on a bar stool nursing that one draft beer for two hours thinks he is some sort of "cash cow" for Thailand.

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with being in Chiang Mai, on a barstool, with a beer in front of you....but one needs to keep the perspective of what they are contributing.

IMHO, it's not all about how much one contributes.

Perhaps their contribution is just keeping the service industries ticking over so that when the

"Millionairs for the month" arrive for holidays, the industry is there and ready to make profit?

A Farang on a modest pension would usually have more than the minimum Thai wage and guess what,

many Thai's work for less than the minimum.

I have EU friends who come for a month at a time and shamelessly stay in 4,000b a night hotels,

drink 2,000b bottles of vinager wine, hire cars and scooters,

have the full range of "massages" (with caution, their wives are with them he he).

They visit a couple of times each year, buy property (OK wife's name) and generally live it up!

They make up for any shortfall from the poor buggers nursing their one beer.

Personally I don't visit bars unless with friends but if I saw a chap like you describe

I might just get him another beer, it's called Tamboon - Make Merit in Thai.

Well I give to blind or limbless beggars even in Europe!

Maybe they may have some entertaining stories of their fall from grace for you?

Or perhaps would appreciate a little compassion?

There but for the grace of God......

[djayz]

Looks pretty straight forward.

[laislica]

Why overstay??

Cos they can't meet the requirements and have got themselves involved and have to find work without papers just to survive????

Maybe after a time, say 11 years, have saved enough to pay the fine and return 4 weeks later??

Ask him why don't you?

There's probably a long story to be had there?

However, he could have been under 50 and not able to get the elite visa but could exist on off shore funds????

Who knows???

Oh wait -

[OMGImInPattaya]

Trying to compare the US or any western country to Thailand is a feat of hubris fully consistent with the Thai mindset. You can't simultaneously have your hand out and bite the hell out of your economic benefactors. Have you checked out the truly enlightened visa terms for those entering Cambodia?? There is at least one book on the market which suggests that Thailand should be concerned about Cambodia. What is overlooked is that you have to understand that you have a problem in order to ADDRESS the problem. Flexing muscles when you are an economic weakling is merely posturing.

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

What "abuse"? All they're asking for is that when your permission to stay in Thailand expires that you leave...what's so extraordinary about that? I mean, even the US is trying to implement this policy now. (And I believe it's the same in Cambodia...that they don't give open-ended entry stamps out upon arrival.)

I've been to Cambo a dozen times...believe me, Thailand has nothing to worry about from there. It's a nice place for a few days and maybe some people will want to live there but most will not. And as I posted, what's wrong with expecting foreigners to leave a country when their permission to stay expires? I'm sorry to have to tell you, but the Raj is over.

Edited January 16, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya