Hatari Air Purifier (HT-AP12) - fan speed for 24 hour running?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When I look at the HomePro website, I see dozens of filter products relating to water systems, but only ONE, a Hatari, relating to air filter machines. Nothing (apart from the generic Filtrette sheets) for any other brand  machines, even though the store had a half dozen models on the floor for sale.

 

I guess the concept of wanting to breathe clean air hasn't really caught on much with the locals. Or that it's possible that your health can be harmed by something you can't actually see with the naked eye.

 

Is this the one you're thinking of?

 

 

My Honeywell Enviracaire machine at home uses two filters: a lifetime HEPA filter that supposedly only needs to be vacuumed periodically, and then a carbon-based wraparound pre-filter that should be vacuumed and/or replaced every couple months. The carbon filters, which I haven't found sold here in Thailand as yet, are relatively cheap if bought in the U.S.

 

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, sfokevin said:

^^^

They are listed on Lazada... but sold out...

 

Hompro’s website sells them but wants an obscene 300 baht shipping

 

Hatari’s website also sells them

https://www.hatari.co.th/en/parts/filters-parts/3085

Last time I bought them 2 years ago they were under 600 baht so prices have gone up fast.  They have always been available at home pro and electronic plaza.  The problem is that this time of the year they always sell out and the Thai order planning and restocking system leaves much to be desired.   Should be able to stock up on them in the off season.  Or pay the almost 1000 baht from the Hatari web site when shipping is included.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Seems as though the one filter on the HomePro website and the one listed above on the Hatari website and one and the same.... and both listed as being 888 baht.

 

So that's good fortune, in the Thai/Asian way of thinking....

 

But when I visited the Home Pro at Ploenchit in BKK yesterday, they had the air cleaner:

 

 

But the staff said they didn't stock IN STORE any of the filters for this unit or any of the other similar units.

 

I was doubtful, finding that hard to believe. So I wandered around all the likely areas of the store, and found only this, which I'm pretty sure fits something else, since I found it elsewhere in the portable air conditioner units section.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/21/2018 at 4:15 PM, THAIJAMES said:

TallGuyJohninBKK

Thank you for clearing that up, I was always confused why the readings I was getting were so different then shown in the AQI web site.  Now I know!

But according to the link the PM2.5 concentration needs to be 10 ug/m3 for the air quality to be good.  compared to the WHO which recommends under 25 ug/m3.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 According to the U.S. AQI site, the following levels (AQI and micrometers of PM2.5) are the highest permitted in each AQI category working with 24 hour average numbers:

 

 

Good:

 

Moderate:

 

Unhealthy for Sensitive:

 

Beyond that with a 151 AQI and above, you get into unhealthy for all.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/20/2018 at 8:04 AM, THAIJAMES said:

  However my PM sensor only shows around 80 PM before I turn it on.  meaning this depends a lot on where you live.  I live near CMU on quiet street.

So this would be the meaning of your 80 PM2.5 reading -- assuming it's accurate, and assuming it was the number for a 24 hour average reading in your location.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I would recommend that one buy the Filtrete and place a bit of it on the of your hatari intake ( between the filter and the outer mesh )to catch the big things - replace it weekly 

 

I installed the Filtrette sheets over / on top off the plastic permanent filters on my Mitsubishi bedroom aircon about 10 days ago, and we run the AC in the bedroom probably about 12 hours out of every 24 hour cycle.

 

Here in BKK, after 10 days of use, the Filtrette filters on my bedroom air con when I checked today were a dark gray color that probably was actually darker than the little gray-scale color guide they include in the package showing when to change.

 

I'm certainly hoping I'm not going to be on a new Filtrette sheets every 7-10 days cycle... And the PM2.5 readings in BKK haven't even been that high this past week... Though I suspect a lot of what's getting caught in the Filtrette sheets are the larger particles. (BTW, the permanent filter surface behind the Filtrette sheets was absolutely clean at least from a visual check, not a speck on anything to be seen on the permanent filters.)

 

However, I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to put the Filtrette sheets on the inside -- between the aircon coils and the back side of the permanent filter -- so the permanent filter catches the big stuff and then the Filtrette sheet hopefully only catches the smaller stuff that gets past the permanent filters....

 

But AFAICT, all the instructions say to mount the Filtrette sheets on the outside surface of the permanent air con filters. I think I can understand you wouldn't want the Filtrette sheet physically touching the cold air con coils surface. Any feedback on that???

 

However, I've also got a couple older floor-standing permanent air con units in my apartment, and the way they are built, the air intake and permanent filters are down at floor level whereas the air con coils are considerably higher up in the unit. In that case, if I placed the Filtrette filters behind the permanent filters, they'd be nowhere near those units' air con coils. ????

 

 

[THAIJAMES]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So this would be the meaning of your 80 PM2.5 reading -- assuming it's accurate, and assuming it was the number for a 24 hour average reading in your location.

 

55555  When I first go the sensor I was confused why the difference between my readings and the AQI web site.  Thanks for the link to the calculator, I now understand readings a lot better.   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/20/2018 at 4:51 PM, TonyClifton said:

Whoever was looking for the English instructions for the Hatari HT-AP12, here they are:

Hatari HT-AP12.pdf

Hatari HT-AP12.pdf

 

Thanks for posting the EN manual... So as I read it, it says to replace the HEPA filter at least every 4500 hours.

 

Since we would probably run the unit in our bedroom about 12 hours per day, that works out to a bit over one year of use per filter.

 

Half the daily usage in hours, and double the recommended lifespan of the filter. Though, I kind of wonder if the Hatari filter lifespan recommendations take into account the really poor and dusty air quality in many areas of Thailand, including CM and BKK.

 

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Seems as though the one filter on the HomePro website and the one listed above on the Hatari website and one and the same.... and both listed as being 888 baht.

 

So that's good fortune, in the Thai/Asian way of thinking....

 

But when I visited the Home Pro at Ploenchit in BKK yesterday, they had the air cleaner:

 

 

But the staff said they didn't stock IN STORE any of the filters for this unit or any of the other similar units.

 

I was doubtful, finding that hard to believe. So I wandered around all the likely areas of the store, and found only this, which I'm pretty sure fits something else, since I found it elsewhere in the portable air conditioner units section.

 

 

That also on the Hatari site and they are quoted as being the same size (25.4 x 36.0 x 3.0 cm) and if not and at that price one could certainly McGyver it with razor knife...

Edited February 26, 2018 by sfokevin

[THAIJAMES]

14 hours ago, sfokevin said:

That also on the Hatari site and they are quoted as being the same size (25.4 x 36.0 x 3.0 cm) and if not and at that price one could certainly McGyver it with razor knife...

That's the one, they fit both the old and new units.  I guess get them while you can as 888 might be the new price?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the abovementioned Hatari model, it would be interesting to know/see just what kind of supposed tech specs it has for its HEPA filtration.

 

As with many products, marketing terms seem to have muddied the meaning and reality of HEPA filters, as you can see from the Amazon.com excerpt below:

 

 

At home, my Honeywell 50250 air purifier is a "True HEPA Filter" model, meaning 99.97% supposed efficiency.

 

So, is the Hatari model:

--a regular HEPA filter model, 85%+

--a True HEPA filter model, 99.97%+

--or a HEPA-type filter model, which is who knows what?

 

The Hatari manual seems to suggest True HEPA filter status:

 

 

 

[TonyClifton]

On 2/26/2018 at 2:25 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Just a question for those who are using the Hatari air filter machines: what's your situation with obtaining replacement filters?

 

I was at my local Home Pro store in BKK yesterday, and saw they had a Hatari model and several other brands on display.

 

The Hatari Filter was the only one Homepro Big C Lad Prao had in stock.  They had 20 of them.

You can buy it online as well.

[TonyClifton]

23 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Re the abovementioned Hatari model, it would be interesting to know/see just what kind of supposed tech specs it has for its HEPA filtration.

 

As with many products, marketing terms seem to have muddied the meaning and reality of HEPA filters, as you can see from the Amazon.com excerpt below:

 

 

At home, my Honeywell 50250 air purifier is a "True HEPA Filter" model, meaning 99.97% supposed efficiency.

 

So, is the Hatari model:

--a regular HEPA filter model, 85%+

--a True HEPA filter model, 99.97%+

--or a HEPA-type filter model, which is who knows what?

 

The Hatari manual seems to suggest True HEPA filter status:

 

 

 

Hatari claims to get .03 microns which would be HEPA.  I wasn't aware there was a TRUE Hepa and just a Hepa.  Perhaps it's a Thai thing.

[TonyClifton]

On 2/26/2018 at 7:50 PM, sfokevin said:

That also on the Hatari site and they are quoted as being the same size (25.4 x 36.0 x 3.0 cm) and if not and at that price one could certainly McGyver it with razor knife...

The 555 baht didn't look square to me.

[TonyClifton]

On 2/26/2018 at 7:10 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks for posting the EN manual... So as I read it, it says to replace the HEPA filter at least every 4500 hours.

 

Since we would probably run the unit in our bedroom about 12 hours per day, that works out to a bit over one year of use per filter.

 

Half the daily usage in hours, and double the recommended lifespan of the filter. Though, I kind of wonder if the Hatari filter lifespan recommendations take into account the really poor and dusty air quality in many areas of Thailand, including CM and BKK.

 

If you weren't running your AC at the same time, and just had windows open, I don't see how the purifier would keep up.

 

I run my units 24/7.  I figure it takes a few hours to get the particulates from the air when shut off, so why shut them off.  When I come home, I want to breathe clean air.  If the windows are open I won't run it.  There would be no point.  I wouldn't open my windows unless the outside air was acceptable.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, TonyClifton said:

Hatari claims to get .03 microns which would be HEPA.  I wasn't aware there was a TRUE Hepa and just a Hepa.  Perhaps it's a Thai thing.

It's not a Thai thing. The two different terms are standard industry ones.

 

Both regular HEPA and True HEPA filters, don't ask me why the industry came up with that kind of distinction, are capable of filtering .03 microns.

 

But if you read up on the topic, including the Amazon excerpt I posted above, you'll see it's a matter of efficiency... how good a job either does at filtering out stuff that small. True HEPA is 99.97%, regular HEPA only 85%+.

 

Ideally, especially for anyone who's sensitive, you want TRUE HEPA, not just regular HEPA.

 

PS - That's why I did the post and included the excerpt, because a lot of casual air purifier buyers might not be aware of the difference between the two HEPA types. And the cheaper units often tend to have only the regular HEPA, not True HEPA, filtering.

Edited February 28, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, TonyClifton said:

If you weren't running your AC at the same time, and just had windows open, I don't see how the purifier would keep up.

 

I run my units 24/7.  I figure it takes a few hours to get the particulates from the air when shut off, so why shut them off.  When I come home, I want to breathe clean air.  If the windows are open I won't run it.  There would be no point.  I wouldn't open my windows unless the outside air was acceptable.

 

In our home, we have rooms separated by doors, including the bedroom. It is a self-contained room, that's usually un-used +-12 hours of the day. So, while I might run the air purifier a few hours before we come in for bed at night, it wouldn't make sense to run it there 24 hours straight.

 

If anything, I'd move the air purifier unit or use a second unit into the separate living room/kitchen area where we are the rest of the time when we're home, which probably would account for about the other 12 hours. Again, another entirely separate, self-contained area.

 

[TonyClifton]

On 2/26/2018 at 6:58 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm certainly hoping I'm not going to be on a new Filtrette sheets every 7-10 days cycle... And the PM2.5 readings in BKK haven't even been that high this past week... Though I suspect a lot of what's getting caught in the Filtrette sheets are the larger particles. (BTW, the permanent filter surface behind the Filtrette sheets was absolutely clean at least from a visual check, not a speck on anything to be seen on the permanent filters.)

I spoke with 3M in the USA.  They told me the Filtrete sheets should last 90 days max.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, TonyClifton said:

I spoke with 3M in the USA.  They told me the Filtrete sheets should last 90 days max.

Maybe in the U.S., but not even close here in BKK....

[TonyClifton]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In our home, we have rooms separated by doors, including the bedroom. It is a self-contained room, that's usually un-used +-12 hours of the day. So, while I might run the air purifier a few hours before we come in for bed at night, it wouldn't make sense to run it there 24 hours straight.

 

If anything, I'd move the air purifier unit or use a second unit into the separate living room/kitchen area where we are the rest of the time when we're home, which probably would account for about the other 12 hours. Again, another entirely separate, self-contained area.

 

Perhaps the solution is to move to Singapore.  I notice, that no matter how bad it is in Asia, it is all green in Singapore.

[THAIJAMES]

Update to the question is it safer in Shopping centers.

Every shopping center has different filtration system so.....

I am now at Central Festival.   The PM 2.5 air quality outside was 130  ug3. (extremely unhealthy)   Inside at the first floor it is 56 ug3 (unhealthy).   So yes better!     The air quality drops to 110 ug3 at the top floors for some reason.

[llp]

I measured a level of PM 2.5 of 63 µg/m3 inside Maya yesterday, corresponding AQI 154.

 

With two of these Hatari units running on max speed, 30 sq meter room, I can get PM 2.5 down to 15µg/m3, AQI 56.   If just one is running or both on fan speed 2 then levels can still be 30-50µg/m3.  Will be running them on max always now, and will seal up the windows.

 

My PM sensor unit matched some of the outdoor government readings outdoors.  However, when I hold it above the Hatari air output, levels never go below 10µg/m3, meaning that either my PM sensor unit is not calibrated, or the Hatari filter isn't filtering 99% of the particles.

 

Can someone else comment with a 2.5 PM sensor unit, what levels do you get when taking a sample of air from the Hatari air output?

 

I read that some 2.5 PM sensor units are made for clean readings (inside room), and others for outdoor readings, so they are calibrated to be accurate at certain thresholds.

[THAIJAMES]

46 minutes ago, llp said:

However, when I hold it above the Hatari air output, levels never go below 10µg/m3, meaning that either my PM sensor unit is not calibrated, or the Hatari filter isn't filtering 99% of the particles.

 

Can someone else comment with a 2.5 PM sensor unit, what levels do you get when taking a sample of air from the Hatari air output?

That's my experience too,   while the sensors got to 3 µg/m3 when the air was really clean a few weeks ago (and the filter was not used).   Now,  I can never get it bellow 10µg/m3 leaving the filter on all the time.

 

So the sensors can go that low, it's more likely that the Hatari are not that efficient.  Does it matter as long as its below 25µg/m3?

 

[llp]

 25µg/m3 is still AQI:78, A major improvement percentage wise and for your health, but its in the yellow zone.  Shouldn't be a major concern as this is not a annual mean, just a couple months.

 

My personal target for indoor air quality would be 10 or under, such as the outdoor air quality of these countries in the link with annual means ranging from 2 to 7  µg/m3. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/09/which-cities-have-the-cleanest-air/

 

WHO guideline of an annual mean of 10 µg/m3 for PM2.5  (AQI 46 Green)

EPA around 15 µg/m3.  (AQI 56)

 

convert to AQI here:

https://aqicn.org/calculator/

 

So either we have leaky rooms, but more probable  the HEPA filter inside these units is not a TRUE HEPA filter?  The way to find out would be to put the hatari unit together with a sensor in an isolated small space, big box, or big bag.  

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The PM2.5 levels in CM right now are VERY bad...  So presumably, the Hatari units are struggling to keep up with that.

 

The manual on the Hatari unit seems to claim it's a True HEPA filter. But this being Thailand, whether that's really true or not, and whether the device is designed/manufactured to not leak unfiltered air, are open questions.

 

I will note, I was shopping on Amazon U.S. the other day and looking at air purifier units, and Amazon didn't seem to have a single Hatari air purifier unit in their site -- perhaps because Hatari doesn't market their air purifier devices or other products in the U.S.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/22/2018 at 9:01 AM, THAIJAMES said:

Leaving the Hatari air purifier on all the time in a bedroom 40sqm at low speed brought down the pm2.5 level to 10 in about  3 hours and it stayed around 8 ug/m3. until the morning.  So in conclusion it works perfectly well even on a low setting using a 2 year old filter.

 

Of course the pollution has not gotten that bad yet and this needs to be retested under worst conditions.

 

 

Hey James, considering how bad the PM2.5 levels are in CM right now, how about posting an updated set of readings -- outdoor with no filter, indoor with no filter, and indoor with your Hatari running full blast???

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, llp said:

I measured a level of PM 2.5 of 63 µg/m3 inside Maya yesterday, corresponding AQI 154.

 

With two of these Hatari units running on max speed, 30 sq meter room, I can get PM 2.5 down to 15µg/m3, AQI 56.   If just one is running or both on fan speed 2 then levels can still be 30-50µg/m3.  Will be running them on max always now, and will seal up the windows.

 

My PM sensor unit matched some of the outdoor government readings outdoors.  However, when I hold it above the Hatari air output, levels never go below 10µg/m3, meaning that either my PM sensor unit is not calibrated, or the Hatari filter isn't filtering 99% of the particles.

 

 

What device are you using to get your PM2.5 readings?

 

To some extent, I'm assuming these kinds of comparisons are all relative.  I mean, if the air quality outside isn't too bad, then it's going to be easier for the air purifier units to get improvement running indoors. On the other hand, when the AQ is atrocious like it is in CM right now, I'm assuming it's going to be harder to get good levels indoor, considering, in most buildings, there's always going to be some air leakage between indoors and outdoors.

 

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Hey James, considering how bad the PM2.5 levels are in CM right now, how about posting an updated set of readings -- outdoor with no filter, indoor with no filter, and indoor with your Hatari running full blast???

 

Very different readings now!

 

Bedroom - Turned off the filter 3 hours ago.   Left the room completely sealed.   100 µg/m3

Inside house - never filtered 127 µg/m3

Outside house - 150 µg/m3

TV room - Turned on filter 3 hours ago 35 µg/m3

 

Everytime I open the door to leave the room it spikes to around 50 µg/m3 and takes about 20 min to get back to 35 µg/m3 which seems to be the lowest it can get right now.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by THAIJAMES

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

What device are you using to get your PM2.5 readings?

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Xiaomi-Mijia-PM2-5-Detector-Air-Quality-Tester-OLED-Screen-Air-Purifier-High-Precision-Laser/32836409716.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Nr8Wdw

[llp]

I'm reading 140µg/m3 right now outside.  38-47µg/m3 inside with two Hatari units on full, but I just had the door opened, so I expect levels to fall to a bit more inside.  Very similar results as Thai James.

 

 

Here's example with a high end filter the air output gets down to 0 pm 2.5.  And with a furnace hepa filter 90% reduction.