US activists try to calm fears over transgender bathroom access

[bentfarang]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Aaah - Jingthing - the 'topic policeman' strikes again.

Is it just you or do all liberals attempt to tell people what they can and cannot say?

OK. The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Please try to make every effort to stay on topic.

But perhaps the question of how transgender is handled in sport... which the LGBT community appear to be happy with, could shed some light on how best to view bathroom access too? And it also raises the question of changeroom and shower access. To me there appears to be a massive grey area and the lines are very blurred.

[Jingthing]

Don't make absurd generalizations about how all GLBT people think or indeed the off topic question of how trans people are treated in sport.

[lannarebirth]

Don't make absurd generalizations about how all GLBT people think or indeed the off topic question of how trans people are treated in sport.

I couldn't care less who pees in which bathroom, but it's pretty clear that there's something greater afoot here. Men and women are not the same and imagining that they are doesn't make it so. We are vastly different, and that's a good thing. I feel for those folks apparently tormented by their opposite gender identity, the same as I feel for those stricken with muscular dystrophy or cerebral palsy. Not everyone gets to be normal it seems and I'm sorry for that. We can still appreciate these people for who they are but the whole of society doesn't have to adapt to who they are not.

[thaibeachlovers]

Has the US gone mad? They have how many people on food stamps, how many unemployed, how many illegals in the country, how many deaths in Chicago, how many drug addicts, terrorism, etc etc etc and even the president is getting invested in this pitiful, non important, waste of time. FGS if one has a penis, use the men's toilet, and if one doesn't, use the female toilet. Otherwise, use the handicapped toilet.

NB no other country is having this problem, which is a good way to know it is a stupid non issue.

[Dagnabbit]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Aaah - Jingthing - the 'topic policeman' strikes again.

Is it just you or do all liberals attempt to tell people what they can and cannot say?

OK. The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Please try to make every effort to stay on topic.

Are you like this socially too? Do your friends need permission to continue when a topic strays somewhere you don't like?

The topic is transgenders, in toilets, in locker rooms, where people often change for sports.

If you don't like it, then don't join in.

This is not your forum. Do not tell me what I can and cannot say.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[Dagnabbit]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Aaah - Jingthing - the 'topic policeman' strikes again.

Is it just you or do all liberals attempt to tell people what they can and cannot say?

OK. The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Please try to make every effort to stay on topic.

But perhaps the question of how transgender is handled in sport... which the LGBT community appear to be happy with, could shed some light on how best to view bathroom access too? And it also raises the question of changeroom and shower access. To me there appears to be a massive grey area and the lines are very blurred.

Changing room access is basically lumped in with toilet access.

As for sports - you cannot give up the physical advantage of being a male that went through puberty.

But the bottom line is the extremists LGBT community will always be looking for new frontiers and no doubt sport will be one of them eventually. Issue have arisen in the past and of course it always ends with them shouting "do it my way or I'll call you a bigot".

It is a shame the LGBT community has to suffer them but fortunately, they are a tiny but vocal minority.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[Jingthing]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Aaah - Jingthing - the 'topic policeman' strikes again.

Is it just you or do all liberals attempt to tell people what they can and cannot say?

OK. The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Please try to make every effort to stay on topic.

Are you like this socially too? Do your friends need permission to continue when a topic strays somewhere you don't like?

The topic is transgenders, in toilets, in locker rooms, where people often change for sports.

If you don't like it, then don't join in.

This is not your forum. Do not tell me what I can and cannot say.

Scott is a mod, dude.

Stop harassing me.

You got the ruling -- trans people in SPORTS is off topic.

If your panties are all in a twist over this, take it up with a PM to management instead of infecting this thread with your personal attack garbage.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

...

It is a shame the LGBT community has to suffer them but fortunately, they are a tiny but vocal minority.

(Off topic noise from above post edited out)

Like anyone believes you actually think it's a shame that LGBT people suffer from discrimination from ignorant bigots who can't be bothered to educate themselves. It is true trans people are a tiny minority, but gays and lesbians are rather larger a minority than tiny. Cheers.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I like this quote:

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/editors-note/Content?oid=6225077

I've never understood why anyone would care if a transgender person was in the same bathroom at their local watering hole or department store. After all, if that person is in the ladies or men's rooms, that means they identify as either a woman or a man.

If you feel you can't sit in a bathroom stall or stand in front of a urinal to pee in fear you may be sitting or standing near someone who is transgender, then seriously, go home now because you may not be fit for humanity. It's not up to the transgender community to educate the hateful masses on gender identity, but damn if that's not what's happening because of North Carolina and their discriminatory law forbidding transgender people from using the bathroom that matches their gender identity.

[Scott]

I have removed an inflammatory, baiting post and reply.

Continued posting in this manner and suspensions will be issued.

[Michael8511]

This subject is getting old. Transgender have used female bathrooms for long time and since the female bathrooms only have stalls I don't see the big problem. When it comes to pervs you see them all over the world in bigger amount then you see them in female bathrooms.

[Jingthing]

This subject is getting old. Transgender have used female bathrooms for long time and since the female bathrooms only have stalls I don't see the big problem. When it comes to pervs you see them all over the world in bigger amount then you see them in female bathrooms.

It is old but the American right wing isn't done with it. They're going to milk it for all it's worth as long as they can. They think they've found an angle to demonize GLBT people as being threats to children. They lost the marriage equality battle, so this is backlash.

[Scotwight]

This subject is getting old. Transgender have used female bathrooms for long time and since the female bathrooms only have stalls I don't see the big problem. When it comes to pervs you see them all over the world in bigger amount then you see them in female bathrooms.

The North Carolina law deals with changing and locker rooms and showers that don't have stalls. A point that the LGBT-TV community have been avoiding and sidestepping like the plague. I would imagine you will be no exception. Little Suzy in the shower next to Devine.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Scotwight

[Jingthing]

Meanwhile, in Europe, they're not INSANE.

The groups that are using politicians as their puppets to usher in these discriminatory measures are playing to our inherent fears of difference. If lawmakers were actually interested in protecting anyone, they’d recognize that discomfort is not the same thing as danger and that policing gender only creates more problems. Most of all, they’d realize that trans women of color and trans children are the ones who are most in need of protection.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/05/24/conservative_groups_are_goading_politicians_into_fighting_trans_bathroom.html

[thaibeachlovers]

Meanwhile, in Europe, they're not INSANE.

The groups that are using politicians as their puppets to usher in these discriminatory measures are playing to our inherent fears of difference. If lawmakers were actually interested in protecting anyone, they’d recognize that discomfort is not the same thing as danger and that policing gender only creates more problems. Most of all, they’d realize that trans women of color and trans children are the ones who are most in need of protection.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/05/24/conservative_groups_are_goading_politicians_into_fighting_trans_bathroom.html

I have to agree with the person wrote that piece that outside the US there is a silence on the issue of transgender males in female toilets. In New Zealand it's a complete NON ISSUE. Yet, in NZ there are segregated toilets, and to my knowledge, no transgender ex males demanding to use the female ones- it just wouldn't occur to any here to make a fuss about it. I guess if any transgender males are using the female toilets, they look like women, so no cause for discomfort.

Edited May 24, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[arjunadawn]

Has the US gone mad? They have how many people on food stamps, how many unemployed, how many illegals in the country, how many deaths in Chicago, how many drug addicts, terrorism, etc etc etc and even the president is getting invested in this pitiful, non important, waste of time. FGS if one has a penis, use the men's toilet, and if one doesn't, use the female toilet. Otherwise, use the handicapped toilet.

NB no other country is having this problem, which is a good way to know it is a stupid non issue.

Only countries with strong Progressive stewards have such problems, and this is instructive. It has long been known that America, blessed with every imaginable richness and defense, would only ever be brought to its knees from within. Likewise, with the Constitution restraining violent lurches left or right, there was only ever so far Socialist/Progressive ideology could infect before it was rebuffed.

No matter what agenda Progressives/Socialism passed, eventually they would be defeated judicially or socially because Progressivism/Socialism is intrinsically anathema to every single thing America is built upon and every single tradition and value that provides cohesion. Eventually, such agenda would be noted for its inherent deceits, duplicity, and fascism... unless the viewer changed! Unless not the format changed but the participants- the people!

Under the cover of "we're looking out for you," and "for the children" Americans have effectively been purchased for years, their views changed by being assigned as victims (and this status having rewards), further injuries were processed with government checks/dependency (to ensure a sense of remuneration for their suffering, their victim status), and under the cover of not-race only-race has been officially percolated into every single agency, form, job application, college acceptance, etc. and made efforts at a color blind nation only color. Thus transgender bathroom issues becomes only the next in a very long line of politically generated, contrived victims of the Progressive Machine. It is a machine of Political Simony.

This is why America is always fractured, always victims, always emotionally offended, dumbed down, and each day more socially nihilist then the last. This bathroom issue isn't particularly repugnant nor particularly important. It is just one more manufactured victim to penetrate the social layers of cohesion that one made America great, as de Tocqueville noted.

The issue is hardly whether there is moral rightness in people being able to secure the free association they are entitled to (bathroom- women-men). This can be unraveled in existing courts, public opinion/education, State legislation, etc. But the goal was never working within the system to improve our collective lot, the goal is overthrowing the system. Thus, victim is manufactured for dissent/conflict/agitprop, and any means justifies the end. The issues really are:

Does a nation have any remaining qualities when it can so debase itself and make essential an issue that is both contrived and so topical as to be comedic?

In the long train of nations does America really evidence the virtue and cohesion and polity that make it worthy to survive the trash-heap of history?

The world nearing war, religious fervor is marching, alliances strained, enemies empowered, natural threats unhinged, personal orientation topical, social cohesion in global meltdown, nuclear family dissolved, a paycheck away from poverty, America being warred upon, debt that leverages all of posterity, and a nation absorbed with penis/no-penis, stand/sit... its sick!

[Dagnabbit]

Meanwhile, in Europe, they're not INSANE.

The groups that are using politicians as their puppets to usher in these discriminatory measures are playing to our inherent fears of difference. If lawmakers were actually interested in protecting anyone, they’d recognize that discomfort is not the same thing as danger and that policing gender only creates more problems. Most of all, they’d realize that trans women of color and trans children are the ones who are most in need of protection.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/05/24/conservative_groups_are_goading_politicians_into_fighting_trans_bathroom.html

I have to agree with the person wrote that piece that outside the US there is a silence on the issue of transgender males in female toilets. In New Zealand it's a complete NON ISSUE. Yet, in NZ there are segregated toilets, and to my knowledge, no transgender ex males demanding to use the female ones- it just wouldn't occur to any here to make a fuss about it. I guess if any transgender males are using the female toilets, they look like women, so no cause for discomfort.

The thing is - it isn't transgender males asking for the changes in the first place.

It's extremists. As usual, finding a group on whose behalf, they decide to take offense.

[Jingthing]

A great example of how these bathroom bigot laws are not only about transgender access issues, but are part of a much longer standing anti-GLBT civil rights agenda in general, closely linked to right wing Christian fundamentalists. Notice how this clearly insane bigoted moron thinks gender identity and sexual orientation are the same thing -- doesn't even have an elementary understanding of the issues he's protesting about.

To add, regardless of fluctuations in the STOCK MARKET, reports from TARGET are that their retail sales have NOT gone down since the start of the right wing hate groups supposed boycott of their stores.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

A great example of how these bathroom bigot laws are not only about transgender access issues, but are part of a much longer standing anti-GLBT civil rights agenda in general, closely linked to right wing Christian fundamentalists. Notice how this clearly insane bigoted moron thinks gender identity and sexual orientation are the same thing -- doesn't even have an elementary understanding of the issues he's protesting about.

To add, regardless of fluctuations in the STOCK MARKET, reports from TARGET are that their retail sales have NOT gone down since the start of the right wing hate groups supposed boycott of their stores.

So, your point is? There are nutters everywhere, and I can find plenty on the streets pretty much anytime. Yesterday, a stranger told me that a cleaning company was kidnapping people off the streets for Obama.

Just because a nutter goes on U Tube with a clearly bonkers rant does not justify letting heterosexual men into female toilets. That is what this issue is about, isn't it? No one is complaining about female looking female identifying transgender persons use female bathrooms- they have no doubt been doing so for decades.

As I have already said, this is a political straw man, for those with an agenda that is nothing to do with the rights of transgender people.

Edited May 25, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[chuckd]

Admittedly the raving maniac in the YouTube video is out of control, but the LGBT community must realize stories like the following really do their cause more harm than good.

When an Oregon school district settles a potential law suit for $60,000 because a gender neutral wants to be called "they" rather than "he" or "she" seems somewhat over the top. IMHO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Transgender Teacher Gets $60k After Co-Workers Won’t Call Her ‘They’

BLAKE NEFF

Reporter

8:58 PM 05/23/2016

A “transmasculine” teacher at an Oregon elementary school has been awarded $60,000 by her school district as compensation for harassment she claims to have suffered on the job, including being referred to by the wrong pronoun.

According to The Oregonian, Leo Soell was born a woman, but now prefers to identify as “transmasculine” and “genderqueer,” meaning she does not consider herself to be male or female. After getting breast cancer in late 2014, she had her breasts amputated to create a more masculine appearance and changed her name to Leo. Once she returned from medical school in May, 2015, Soell was fully public with her gender-neutral identity.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/23/transgender-teacher-gets-60k-after-co-workers-wont-call-her-they/#ixzz49gYayCDD

[Jingthing]

I'll admit that sounds crazy ... but rather unrelated to the bathroom bigot laws. Nice deflection try though.

[thaibeachlovers]

Admittedly the raving maniac in the YouTube video is out of control, but the LGBT community must realize stories like the following really do their cause more harm than good.

When an Oregon school district settles a potential law suit for $60,000 because a gender neutral wants to be called "they" rather than "he" or "she" seems somewhat over the top. IMHO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Transgender Teacher Gets $60k After Co-Workers Won’t Call Her ‘They’

BLAKE NEFF

Reporter

8:58 PM 05/23/2016

A “transmasculine” teacher at an Oregon elementary school has been awarded $60,000 by her school district as compensation for harassment she claims to have suffered on the job, including being referred to by the wrong pronoun.

According to The Oregonian, Leo Soell was born a woman, but now prefers to identify as “transmasculine” and “genderqueer,” meaning she does not consider herself to be male or female. After getting breast cancer in late 2014, she had her breasts amputated to create a more masculine appearance and changed her name to Leo. Once she returned from medical school in May, 2015, Soell was fully public with her gender-neutral identity.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/23/transgender-teacher-gets-60k-after-co-workers-wont-call-her-they/#ixzz49gYayCDD

I can understand why a school in a legally bonkers country like the USA would give in rather than fight it in the courts, but if that person thinks they can force everyone else to refer to him/her as they, when Leo is a obviously a masculine name, they are probably missing a few brain cells.

BTW the article doesn't specify gender, but if it's about teachers, the co workers are almost certainly women, so it's not those evil misogynist men at "fault" here, just sisters together .

NB s/he could easily solve her problem by changing her name to "they".

Edited May 25, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

I'll admit that sounds crazy ... but rather unrelated to the bathroom bigot laws. Nice deflection try though.

Actually, it's all a part of the same agenda by certain un named and un identified forces.

[Dagnabbit]

A great example of how these bathroom bigot laws are not only about transgender access issues, but are part of a much longer standing anti-GLBT civil rights agenda in general, closely linked to right wing Christian fundamentalists. Notice how this clearly insane bigoted moron thinks gender identity and sexual orientation are the same thing -- doesn't even have an elementary understanding of the issues he's protesting about.

To add, regardless of fluctuations in the STOCK MARKET, reports from TARGET are that their retail sales have NOT gone down since the start of the right wing hate groups supposed boycott of their stores.

So, your point is? There are nutters everywhere, and I can find plenty on the streets pretty much anytime. Yesterday, a stranger told me that a cleaning company was kidnapping people off the streets for Obama.

Just because a nutter goes on U Tube with a clearly bonkers rant does not justify letting heterosexual men into female toilets. That is what this issue is about, isn't it? No one is complaining about female looking female identifying transgender persons use female bathrooms- they have no doubt been doing so for decades.

As I have already said, this is a political straw man, for those with an agenda that is nothing to do with the rights of transgender people.

It is taking one example of someone stupid and then claiming that other people are stupid too.

It's bigotry defined.

[Dagnabbit]

Admittedly the raving maniac in the YouTube video is out of control, but the LGBT community must realize stories like the following really do their cause more harm than good.

When an Oregon school district settles a potential law suit for $60,000 because a gender neutral wants to be called "they" rather than "he" or "she" seems somewhat over the top. IMHO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Transgender Teacher Gets $60k After Co-Workers Won’t Call Her ‘They’

BLAKE NEFF

Reporter

8:58 PM 05/23/2016

A “transmasculine” teacher at an Oregon elementary school has been awarded $60,000 by her school district as compensation for harassment she claims to have suffered on the job, including being referred to by the wrong pronoun.

According to The Oregonian, Leo Soell was born a woman, but now prefers to identify as “transmasculine” and “genderqueer,” meaning she does not consider herself to be male or female. After getting breast cancer in late 2014, she had her breasts amputated to create a more masculine appearance and changed her name to Leo. Once she returned from medical school in May, 2015, Soell was fully public with her gender-neutral identity.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/23/transgender-teacher-gets-60k-after-co-workers-wont-call-her-they/#ixzz49gYayCDD

I can understand why a school in a legally bonkers country like the USA would give in rather than fight it in the courts, but if that person thinks they can force everyone else to refer to him/her as they, when Leo is a obviously a masculine name, they are probably missing a few brain cells.

BTW the article doesn't specify gender, but if it's about teachers, the co workers are almost certainly women, so it's not those evil misogynist men at "fault" here, just sisters together .

NB s/he could easily solve her problem by changing her name to "they".

That's $60k that cannot now be spent on new toilets....

[thaibeachlovers]

A great example of how these bathroom bigot laws are not only about transgender access issues, but are part of a much longer standing anti-GLBT civil rights agenda in general, closely linked to right wing Christian fundamentalists. Notice how this clearly insane bigoted moron thinks gender identity and sexual orientation are the same thing -- doesn't even have an elementary understanding of the issues he's protesting about.

To add, regardless of fluctuations in the STOCK MARKET, reports from TARGET are that their retail sales have NOT gone down since the start of the right wing hate groups supposed boycott of their stores.

So, your point is? There are nutters everywhere, and I can find plenty on the streets pretty much anytime. Yesterday, a stranger told me that a cleaning company was kidnapping people off the streets for Obama.

Just because a nutter goes on U Tube with a clearly bonkers rant does not justify letting heterosexual men into female toilets. That is what this issue is about, isn't it? No one is complaining about female looking female identifying transgender persons use female bathrooms- they have no doubt been doing so for decades.

As I have already said, this is a political straw man, for those with an agenda that is nothing to do with the rights of transgender people.

It is taking one example of someone stupid and then claiming that other people are stupid too.

It's bigotry defined.

Off topic, but to respond to a comment about moi, calling stupid people stupid is not bigotry. Calling a person of a certain race or gender stupid BECAUSE of their race or gender is bigotry. I don't recall accusing anyone of a certain race or gender as being stupid. In the post you are replying to I have only referred to one person as a nutter, and unless you believe Obama is employing cleaning companies in foreign countries to kidnap people he is certainly deluded.

[Dagnabbit]

A great example of how these bathroom bigot laws are not only about transgender access issues, but are part of a much longer standing anti-GLBT civil rights agenda in general, closely linked to right wing Christian fundamentalists. Notice how this clearly insane bigoted moron thinks gender identity and sexual orientation are the same thing -- doesn't even have an elementary understanding of the issues he's protesting about.

To add, regardless of fluctuations in the STOCK MARKET, reports from TARGET are that their retail sales have NOT gone down since the start of the right wing hate groups supposed boycott of their stores.

So, your point is? There are nutters everywhere, and I can find plenty on the streets pretty much anytime. Yesterday, a stranger told me that a cleaning company was kidnapping people off the streets for Obama.

Just because a nutter goes on U Tube with a clearly bonkers rant does not justify letting heterosexual men into female toilets. That is what this issue is about, isn't it? No one is complaining about female looking female identifying transgender persons use female bathrooms- they have no doubt been doing so for decades.

As I have already said, this is a political straw man, for those with an agenda that is nothing to do with the rights of transgender people.

It is taking one example of someone stupid and then claiming that other people are stupid too.

It's bigotry defined.

Off topic, but to respond to a comment about moi, calling stupid people stupid is not bigotry. Calling a person of a certain race or gender stupid BECAUSE of their race or gender is bigotry. I don't recall accusing anyone of a certain race or gender as being stupid. In the post you are replying to I have only referred to one person as a nutter, and unless you believe Obama is employing cleaning companies in foreign countries to kidnap people he is certainly deluded.

Actually - I agree - that he is stupid.

It is the act of using this person as an example and trying to make out that anyone that objects to men in womens locker rooms is similarly afflicted with an IQ defect that I object to.

It stifles debate. It tries to make all the 'opposition' look the same. It doesn't understand that everyone in the 'opposition' is different. It doesn't attempt to understand the 'opposition' but to vilify.

I'm pretty sure this is textbook bigotry.

[thaibeachlovers]

So, your point is? There are nutters everywhere, and I can find plenty on the streets pretty much anytime. Yesterday, a stranger told me that a cleaning company was kidnapping people off the streets for Obama.

Just because a nutter goes on U Tube with a clearly bonkers rant does not justify letting heterosexual men into female toilets. That is what this issue is about, isn't it? No one is complaining about female looking female identifying transgender persons use female bathrooms- they have no doubt been doing so for decades.

As I have already said, this is a political straw man, for those with an agenda that is nothing to do with the rights of transgender people.

It is taking one example of someone stupid and then claiming that other people are stupid too.

It's bigotry defined.

Off topic, but to respond to a comment about moi, calling stupid people stupid is not bigotry. Calling a person of a certain race or gender stupid BECAUSE of their race or gender is bigotry. I don't recall accusing anyone of a certain race or gender as being stupid. In the post you are replying to I have only referred to one person as a nutter, and unless you believe Obama is employing cleaning companies in foreign countries to kidnap people he is certainly deluded.

Actually - I agree - that he is stupid.

It is the act of using this person as an example and trying to make out that anyone that objects to men in womens locker rooms is similarly afflicted with an IQ defect that I object to.

It stifles debate. It tries to make all the 'opposition' look the same. It doesn't understand that everyone in the 'opposition' is different. It doesn't attempt to understand the 'opposition' but to vilify.

I'm pretty sure this is textbook bigotry.

Well, I'll agree to that if you agree that all the people accusing Trump and his supporters of being terrible people are also bigots, for all the same reasons that you use.

[chuckd]

I'll admit that sounds crazy ... but rather unrelated to the bathroom bigot laws. Nice deflection try though.

No deflection at all.

Quote from the linked article:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

"Some teachers were even worse, Soell said. She claimed one teacher screamed at her in the hallway that her gender choice was offensive to God, and she said teachers conspired to use the school’s only gender-neutral bathroom so Soell would have to wait a half-hour or more to use it."

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/23/transgender-teacher-gets-60k-after-co-workers-wont-call-her-they/#ixzz49gx5q2AD

[Dagnabbit]

Actually - I agree - that he is stupid.

It is the act of using this person as an example and trying to make out that anyone that objects to men in womens locker rooms is similarly afflicted with an IQ defect that I object to.

It stifles debate. It tries to make all the 'opposition' look the same. It doesn't understand that everyone in the 'opposition' is different. It doesn't attempt to understand the 'opposition' but to vilify.

I'm pretty sure this is textbook bigotry.

Well, I'll agree to that if you agree that all the people accusing Trump and his supporters of being terrible people are also bigots, for all the same reasons that you use.

Of course.

There's a pervasive problem in society today. Debate is not a tool to discuss points and find out new information. It's a tool to prove you are right. Being right seems to matter a lot to some people. So much so that it's important to them to denigrate those with opposing views.

Politics is a great example. Many people on the left AND right are guilty of calling people with different opinions stupid. Yet these same people often follow the party line on every single issue - abortion, gun control, environment - as if you can't follow a party on some issues and not others.

I find it quite sad that people are so keen to call people names instead of engaging in discourse and discussion.

Still - I like to think that it is just a vocal minority. The lowest common denominator that shouts loudest.