New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[tomacht8]

Vote LEAVE

For the sake of the NHS. It is being overwhelmed by immigrants claiming free health care and getting away with it. Hospitals are struggling. People with H.I.V., cancer and other serious problems are getting free care none have paid in to get.

For the sake of the likes of British Steel where thousands of jobs have also been lost because of E.U. rules saying our government cannot help the steel industry, yet the likes of France ignore similar rules.

To regain the ability to rule ourselves with our own laws. Since we joined the Common Market in 1973, over 50% of our laws are dictated to us by Brussels.

Just a few reasons to LEAVE

Wrong about steel. British government stopped penalty tariffs against China dumping steel so as keep friendly with the Chinese.

NHS is buoyed both by EU workers paying taxes and EU employees. Our government is failing to invest. Was at a hospital in Amsterdam today. Beautiful. No queues. UK hospitals are often shabby.

WRONG about UK laws. 13% originated in EU according to parliamentary library

Try and get some facts right?

BTW are you C2, D, or E?

Strange then, that those in the NHS complain of too many foreign people being treated for nothing.

also...

The House of Commons Library has warned that "there is no totally accurate, rational or useful way of calculating the percentage of national laws based on or influenced by the EU."

In agriculture, fisheries, external trade, and the environment, it’s fair to say that EU legislation and policy is indeed the main driver of UK law and policy, although the UK retains some freedom of action in these areas.

link....

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/

The latest figure has been calculated by the campaign group Business for Britain, which says that 64.7% of UK law is influenced by the EU. It offers this as the "definitive" calculation, but also cautions that "any attempt to make sense of the numbers is highly subjective".

link...

https://fullfact.org/europe/two-thirds-uk-law-made-eu/

You are right with the 64%. Even Switzerland and Norway have 60-80% of EU rights in their national laws

[tomacht8]

THe entire Brit motor industry would prefer to "REMAIN" - yet the Brexiteers continue to fly in the face of the facts.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-nissan-to-take-legal-action-against-vote-leave-campaign-over-leaflet-a7091556.html

This is a very sensitive issue for the Brexterboys.

How can we keep our manufacturing car industry?

I could write an essay about it.

But nothing is free.

Neither the EU scientific cooperation or EU funded research projects,

These are a whopping 1.8 billion.

The technologically, future-oriented science will suffer.

So who wants to know:

How can we keep our manufacturing car industry?

You can send me then 200 pounds to my account,

I will then send the report.

Yours faithfully

The Eu Research Group (Hopefully I do not must say that this includes the dear colleagues from the UK).

[wooloomooloo]

BTW - all you military experts - and Nato afficianados...

Nato and US defence chiefs issue security warnings over Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/10/nato-chief-brexit-warning-white-house-david-cameron

What a load of horses pone.

[moobie]

I'm surprised the polls seem to indicate an even split between both groups when the vast majority of people I speak with tend towards Brexit.

My guess is that like the last General Election the pollsters have this way, way wrong.

Whichever way the vote does go, I think that the referendum has further fractured this country and for those crying that it's the Brexit group that are being xenophobic they may want to watch some of The Guardian's recent videos on this issue from around the country. A surprising amount of immigrants and those of the first/second generation would appear to be voting Leave. As one of the commentators mentioned, the Labour Party should be concerned by its lack of influence in what was once its heartlands, especially on this issue.

It should further be noted that this is apparently becoming more than a vote on EU membership but one on the Establishment of which the EU body politic is just one part. The major question has to be to what extent will this spread, maybe next France, The Netherlands, Denmark? We may only be witnessing the beginning of a major shift on the part of peoples of Europe towards the EU rather than what at first was a rather ill though out Election pledge on Cameron's part.

[chiang mai]

FT Poll of Polls calls it 47% Remain, 45% Leave, 9% undecided.

https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

[Thaiwine]

Daily Express updated poll results 11pm last night gives Leave 7 point lead hours before voting starts

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/682415/EU-referendum-Opinium-poll-Leave-one-per-cent-lead-Remain-Brexit

[Laughing Gravy]

I just don't trust the polls full stop and with the last election and the Scottish referendum they were inaccurate. I did read a very interesting point from someone who claimed to be one of the people from William Hill and that he is part of a committee that creates the odds. He sated and I can't verify this but interesting if true, the book makers have been threated with massive tax hikes on betting if they published the true odds. This was a few weeks ago and the person stated that the leave was in the 60% plus but they couldn't put that. The odds did go down slowly over the weeks.

Again I can't confirm or deny this truth but certainly 'food for thought'.

[Orac]

Well D Day is upon us so let us see if the masses are prepared to keep forging forward with hope, desire and courage to forge a better future for Europe with the UK playing a key leading role or if we should turn our backs and run away to concentrate on rebuilding some mythical master race.

[Laughing Gravy]

Of course it could survive but at what cost and for how long would it be before we got back to the today position, five years, ten years, twenty years.

Does it matter. We have been in the EU for over 40 years. It hasn't worked and been worth it. Have some British faith and guts We will be OK. We have our own people who can do things. We can decide things for ourselves. I do wonder where the British backbone has gone from some people.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[teatree]

Brexiteers confused on sovereignty - which ISN"T democracy either.....

The executive arm of the UK IS elected.

The executive arm (commission) of the EU IS NOT elected.

The EU parliament in the picture is elected, but it is little more than a rubber stamping committee.

Posts like yours show that people have very little idea about how the EU is actually run.

[Laughing Gravy]

Well D Day is upon us so let us see if the masses are prepared to keep forging forward with hope, desire and courage to forge a better future for Europe with the UK playing a key leading role or if we should turn our backs and run away to concentrate on rebuilding some mythical master race.

What is mythical about wanting to govern yourself and be self reliant on your own country. Nothing about the master race. I would not want you in my trench and I am sure my forefathers wouldn't either. Voting out is nothing to do with superiority just taking control of ones identity.

[daveAustin]

I would have thought it was fairly obvious to anyone looking in on this debate that from almost any angle it is quite clear that whatever argument the Brexiteers put forward it is in reality based on a generally xenophobic outlook on the world.....the idea we are being ruled by "foreigners" (as if we aren't in there too0 and the idea that UK is being "swamped" by "immigrants" - yet they fail to realise who these groups of people actually are and what they do FOR the economy.

however, there is of course no argument against a Brexiteer - there is no argument; it's just pigeon chess based on a murky concept of nationalism and xenophobia.

Lets just hope they forget to vote this Friday (24th).

There is no argument against you lot you mean!

What gets up my back with those that want the easy status quo is how smugly arrogant and patronising they are toward those that want something different. Some 'brits' have become embarrassingly meek.

But it's looking more like you lot have spun it in your favour. If so I hope you get what you deserve by staying with the club; a club which has a general disdain for Great Britain.

[Caps]

[Orac]

Well D Day is upon us so let us see if the masses are prepared to keep forging forward with hope, desire and courage to forge a better future for Europe with the UK playing a key leading role or if we should turn our backs and run away to concentrate on rebuilding some mythical master race.

What is mythical about wanting to govern yourself and be self reliant on your own country. Nothing about the master race. I would not want you in my trench and I am sure my forefathers wouldn't either. Voting out is nothing to do with superiority just taking control of ones identity.

Sorry if i am not British enough for you but i subscribe to a more inclusive, open cultural ideal.

[daveAustin]

Of course it could survive but at what cost and for how long would it be before we got back to the today position, five years, ten years, twenty years.

Does it matter. We have been in the EU for over 40 years. It hasn't worked and been worth it. Have some British faith and guts We will be OK. We have our own people who can do things. We can decide things for ourselves. I do wonder where the British backbone has gone from some people.

There's little left. Many are quite weak and afraid of upsetting anyone and everyone. Most vote selfishly; uncertainty on pensions and property value typically and towing the old the-economy-will-suffer line. Britain was the sick man of Europe IN Europe for years. It blossomed through hard work and creativity, NOT because of Europe.

[Caps]

Well D Day is upon us so let us see if the masses are prepared to keep forging forward with hope, desire and courage to forge a better future for Europe with the UK playing a key leading role or if we should turn our backs and run away to concentrate on rebuilding some mythical master race.

What is mythical about wanting to govern yourself and be self reliant on your own country. Nothing about the master race. I would not want you in my trench and I am sure my forefathers wouldn't either. Voting out is nothing to do with superiority just taking control of ones identity.

Sorry if i am not British enough for you but i subscribe to a more inclusive, open cultural ideal.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect PRO1466642294.177478.jpg

There is nothing cultural about some group of unelected people slowly trying to take over you life and country

[JB300]

I just don't trust the polls full stop and with the last election and the Scottish referendum they were inaccurate. I did read a very interesting point from someone who claimed to be one of the people from William Hill and that he is part of a committee that creates the odds. He sated and I can't verify this but interesting if true, the book makers have been threated with massive tax hikes on betting if they published the true odds. This was a few weeks ago and the person stated that the leave was in the 60% plus but they couldn't put that. The odds did go down slowly over the weeks.

Again I can't confirm or deny this truth but certainly 'food for thought'.

Has to be one of the funniest tinfoil hat theories I've heard, did they get it directly from the Alien mothership or via NWO command from their submarine under the north pole?

[Thaiwine]

Of course it could survive but at what cost and for how long would it be before we got back to the today position, five years, ten years, twenty years.

Does it matter. We have been in the EU for over 40 years. It hasn't worked and been worth it. Have some British faith and guts We will be OK. We have our own people who can do things. We can decide things for ourselves. I do wonder where the British backbone has gone from some people.

There's little left. Many are quite weak and afraid of upsetting anyone and everyone. Most vote selfishly; uncertainty on pensions and property value typically and towing the old the-economy-will-suffer line. Britain was the sick man of Europe IN Europe for years. It blossomed through hard work and creativity, NOT because of Europe.

In fact the EU has been sticking the boot in too, by giving companies grants to move production out of the UK into other countries.

[Caps]

Of course it could survive but at what cost and for how long would it be before we got back to the today position, five years, ten years, twenty years.

Does it matter. We have been in the EU for over 40 years. It hasn't worked and been worth it. Have some British faith and guts We will be OK. We have our own people who can do things. We can decide things for ourselves. I do wonder where the British backbone has gone from some people.

There's little left. Many are quite weak and afraid of upsetting anyone and everyone. Most vote selfishly; uncertainty on pensions and property value typically and towing the old the-economy-will-suffer line. Britain was the sick man of Europe IN Europe for years. It blossomed through hard work and creativity, NOT because of Europe.

In fact the EU has been sticking the boot in too, by giving companies grants to move production out of the UK into other countries.

Was Ford Transit one of them?

[Thaiwine]

In fact the EU has been sticking the boot in too, by giving companies grants to move production out of the UK into other countries.

Was Ford Transit one of them?

From what I have read Ford had an EU grant to move production to Turkey, not sure how that one works out as Turkey isn't an EU member yet.

[Naam]

In fact the EU has been sticking the boot in too, by giving companies grants to move production out of the UK into other countries.

Was Ford Transit one of them?

From what I have read Ford had an EU grant to move production to Turkey, not sure how that one works out as Turkey isn't an EU member yet.

Ford got a loan, not a grant. and that not to "move" but to increase Ford's Turkey production.

[chiang mai]

Daily Express updated poll results 11pm last night gives Leave 7 point lead hours before voting starts

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/682415/EU-referendum-Opinium-poll-Leave-one-per-cent-lead-Remain-Brexit

Whilst the poll in the Beano has the Undecided's in the lead, just as accurate I'm certain!

[Thaiwine]

In fact the EU has been sticking the boot in too, by giving companies grants to move production out of the UK into other countries.

Was Ford Transit one of them?

From what I have read Ford had an EU grant to move production to Turkey, not sure how that one works out as Turkey isn't an EU member yet.

Ford got a loan, not a grant. and that not to "move" but to increase Ford's Turkey production.

Transit production in Southampton England has finished, production moved to Turkey

On 26 October 2012 Ford announced that, as part of a larger cutback of their European production capacity, the Southampton factory would close altogether in July 2013, with production for Europe of all the new Transit models shifted to Turkey. The last Transit went into production on 15 July 2013 and was completed on 26 July.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Southampton_plant

I see Ford did in fact have an EU loan they then closed the Southampton factory and move production to Turkey.

[Histavia]

Vote LEAVE

For the sake of the NHS. It is being overwhelmed by immigrants claiming free health care and getting away with it. Hospitals are struggling. People with H.I.V., cancer and other serious problems are getting free care none have paid in to get.

For the sake of the likes of British Steel where thousands of jobs have also been lost because of E.U. rules saying our government cannot help the steel industry, yet the likes of France ignore similar rules.

To regain the ability to rule ourselves with our own laws. Since we joined the Common Market in 1973, over 50% of our laws are dictated to us by Brussels.

Just a few reasons to LEAVE

Wrong about steel. British government stopped penalty tariffs against China dumping steel so as keep friendly with the Chinese.

NHS is buoyed both by EU workers paying taxes and EU employees. Our government is failing to invest. Was at a hospital in Amsterdam today. Beautiful. No queues. UK hospitals are often shabby.

WRONG about UK laws. 13% originated in EU according to parliamentary library

Try and get some facts right?

BTW are you C2, D, or E?

Strange then, that those in the NHS complain of too many foreign people being treated for nothing.

also...

The House of Commons Library has warned that "there is no totally accurate, rational or useful way of calculating the percentage of national laws based on or influenced by the EU."

In agriculture, fisheries, external trade, and the environment, it’s fair to say that EU legislation and policy is indeed the main driver of UK law and policy, although the UK retains some freedom of action in these areas.

link....

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/

The latest figure has been calculated by the campaign group Business for Britain, which says that 64.7% of UK law is influenced by the EU. It offers this as the "definitive" calculation, but also cautions that "any attempt to make sense of the numbers is highly subjective".

link...

https://fullfact.org/europe/two-thirds-uk-law-made-eu/

You are right with the 64%. Even Switzerland and Norway have 60-80% of EU rights in their national laws

"Strange then, that those in the NHS complain of too many foreign people being treated for nothing." - absolute tripe - where on earth did you get that idea about the NHS - you obviously have no idea of the culture and work ethics there.....they would be u7tterly insulted by that facile comment.

"The House of Commons Library has warned that "there is no totally accurate, rational or useful way of calculating the percentage of national laws based on or influenced by the EU." - interesting source but it does suggest any claims you make are irrational

Edited June 23, 2016 by Histavia

[Laughing Gravy]

Well D Day is upon us so let us see if the masses are prepared to keep forging forward with hope, desire and courage to forge a better future for Europe with the UK playing a key leading role or if we should turn our backs and run away to concentrate on rebuilding some mythical master race.

What is mythical about wanting to govern yourself and be self reliant on your own country. Nothing about the master race. I would not want you in my trench and I am sure my forefathers wouldn't either. Voting out is nothing to do with superiority just taking control of ones identity.

Sorry if i am not British enough for you but i subscribe to a more inclusive, open cultural ideal.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect PRO1466642294.177478.jpg

Where did I say you are not British enough? I just expect more backbone and the belief that we can't make our own choices and govern ourselves. like we did before the EU and will if we exit the EU.

[Laughing Gravy]

I just don't trust the polls full stop and with the last election and the Scottish referendum they were inaccurate. I did read a very interesting point from someone who claimed to be one of the people from William Hill and that he is part of a committee that creates the odds. He sated and I can't verify this but interesting if true, the book makers have been threated with massive tax hikes on betting if they published the true odds. This was a few weeks ago and the person stated that the leave was in the 60% plus but they couldn't put that. The odds did go down slowly over the weeks.

Again I can't confirm or deny this truth but certainly 'food for thought'.

Has to be one of the funniest tinfoil hat theories I've heard, did they get it directly from the Alien mothership or via NWO command from their submarine under the north pole?

Well I am glad you found it funny. It just might have been from aliens who knows. I did say it was unsubstantiated. Again people have the free will to believe what they want. I would not rule anything out what any government would do. Just as an example when the haulage firms blocked the oil deports in the 1990s the government went hunting on all these firms and stripped them with taxes and regulations as a punishment. Companies in the UK know this is a tactic, so maybe the little green man isn't talking rubbish as you may think. Just remember this.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Mahatma Gandhi

[churchill]

Bookies odds follow the money not the majority ...

Clearly you are neither a bookie nor a mathematician or have heard of something called a form book in a horse race. Plus the idea that the bookies always win based purely on the amount of money placed is an error as well. As is the suggestion that the bookies in this two-horse race without form totally ignore poll feeds of their own. But you have special feed into how the majority are leaning do you? Well get straight down to the bookies and place that bet at 3:1 and put your shirt on it. (Note to others: they rarely do. Just talk)

Let's see .. shall we

Just had a chat with my retired bookie mate who said that in principle I was 'er...... wrong . But we couldn't resolve in practice re this special event why there wasn't a more coming together of the betting odds and the poll output ie why the smart money wasn't taking the 3/1 odds.

Something Strange Emerges When Looking Behind The "Brexit" Bookie Odds

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-22/something-strange-emerges-when-looking-behind-brexit-bookie-odds

[Histavia]

Breaking News........

Edited June 23, 2016 by Histavia

[Laughing Gravy]

Breaking News........

I can't find this on the BBC site but I am not doubting you. I am unsure if this can be done legally but would be another attempt by the remain, to ensure they can win. If it is true then shameful and just shows that the remain are very, very worried. Lets see. They have already extended the deadline for voting. The term democracy is becoming more and more at risk of its true meaning.

[nontabury]

Turkey starts negotiations to join the EU on June the 30th

What comes over very strongly in this interview, is how those who are willing to surrender our remaining soverenty to this corrupt so called Union, are again ( 1973) deceiving and downright lying to the British people.

Yet on this thread we have people ( O.K so many of them are not British ) who are prepared to accept this. How will they think when Turkey does gain admission,and all that entails,possibly within 5yrs,and not 1000 years as suggested by Cameron.

If you are not worried about how the EU is now, you will be when the EU non elected Bureacrats unveil their future plans.