8 dead in Munich mall shooting; police hunt up to 3 suspects

[dunroaming]

I am sure that many Muslims are aware of the terrorist actions but to assume that the majority of Muslims would side with them is about as ridiculous as it gets. Do you actually think that all the Irish Catholics agreed with the IRA bombings? Do you really think that the German public agreed with the actions of the Baader Meinhof terrorists?

What a terrorist group is is a group of extremists acting against the State. If they act with the backing of the State they are called soldiers. IS are called terrorists by Muslims as well as us.

[metisdead]

Off topic nonsense posts have been removed.

[RickBradford]

I am sure that many Muslims are aware of the terrorist actions but to assume that the majority of Muslims would side with them is about as ridiculous as it gets.

[KhaoNiaw]

Sky News has quoted a German source saying that on his FB profile he had posted pictures of several infamous murderers, one of them being Anders Breivik .

That would be an ironic twist.

And the date is unlikely to be a coincidence then.

[evadgib]

How did this oik gain access to a gun?

How did he retain dual nationality when a friend here had her German passport/citizenship revoked a few weeks ago when she (ethnic European) became Thai?

Edited July 23, 2016 by evadgib

[dageurreotype]

He is probably just a mental case.

In the video that was posted last night where he was walking on the parking roof , he shouted : I am German and also I am on medication. Yes he was German-Iranian but if he was very sick , I am not sure he was brainwashed by IS.

So in the space of what? two weeks? There have been as many mass killings by 'mental cases'. Odd that they've all been muslim.

[Johnyo]

The news is getting redundant. Perhaps we can get some sort of statistical table for the daily Islamist attacks. Something like they do for sports stats.

Right now France is ahead but Germany is showing signs of moving up.

Those scores would be a at the bottom of the league if we included the deaths of innocents in the Middle East killed by western armies. Just the other day 80 by mistake.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-least-85-civilians-feared-dead-after-us-air-strike-mistake-1571600

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steely Dan]

If we are in the business of picking an arbitrary start to the time line in support of our argument I would suggest beginning when the Moors first started their invasions of North Africa and Europe from the 9th century onwards.

The Moslem advance into France was halted at the Battle of tours in 732.

Quite right slip of the quill. It was only last week that I read about Charles Martel and Tours. The French could do with a modern day Martel.

[micmichd]

Apparently a German born of Iranian Descent. People going he is Iranian so he is not white. Please define white? Spaniards and Portugese are not always pale in colour are they white?

I have Olive skin but blue eyes and brown hair . Am I white?

The Guy might be a Shiite or he could be an Iranian Kurd. What if he is a Christian of Iranian descent? Does that make a difference.

The innnocents this man murdered if most are Immigrants does this make it ok?

He is said to have said he was born in Germany, Living in a depressed area of Munich.

He yelled anti immigrant statements.

Yes He is a Nutter in any ones books. Murdered innocent people. We will have to wait and see if he was radical. Was he inspired by that crazed Butcher Anders Brevic or by those deranged Camel Humpers ISIL we will have to wait and see

Germans are greedy and stingy. It's immigrants they called once as "guest workers" when they needed cheap labour force. Now they feel they don't need them anymore, so immigrants (even in the 3rd generation get marginalized.

ISIL is greedy. The organisation known as Daesh and self-proclaimed founders of a self-proclaimed "Islamic State of Iraq and Levante" is a sponge for young men marginalized in Europe. Daesh even pay their warriors, they say the wage is about 500 EUR per month. The expectation of 70 virgins in paradise is a nice but doubtful add-on, but 500 EUR p.m. should do as a baseline for further negotiations. This amount should be paid by the Europeans that marginalized the inhabitants of Arabia, Germany being the richest of all.

But: Germany is still greedy, and it's still stingy.

[stander]

These cartoons really hit the target exposing the BBC, CNN, MSNBC, SKY and the other elitist media hypocrites .

[RickBradford]

The BBC, by constantly trying to downplay, deflect or ignore the Muslim element of these weekly acts of deadly terrorism, is in fact engaging in jihad -- Islam allows for "jihad of the mouth and tongue" as well as that by the sword (bombs, guns, even trucks, hadn't been invented then).

There are a few countries where the state broadcaster actively works for the downfall of the state which created it, sustains, and whose taxpayers pay for it -- apart from the BBC, CBC in Canada and ABC in Australia are prime examples.

[stander]

MSNBC Stooge Lawrence O’Donnell, for example repeatedly slandered Mormonism during the 2008 presidential campaign as a sidebar to his creepily obsessive verbal jihad against then-candidate Mitt Romney. But when asked by radio host Hugh Hewitt whether he would insult Muhammad the way he insulted Joseph Smith, O’Donnell replied with rare candor: “Oh, well I’m afraid of what the.. that’s where I’m really afraid. I would like to criticize Islam much more than I do publically, but I am afraid for my life if I do……Mormons are the nicest people in the world. They’ll never take a shot at me. Those other people I’m not a word about them

[stander]

Munich attack nothing to do with Islam say German police who have arrested more people for commenting on the Cologne attack they covered up than actual rapists.

[radiochaser]

The religion of peace is at war again, westerners need to wake up this will be coming to your postcode soon.

And if this unknown Gun man is identified as a Lutheran or Roman Catholic will you then extend your rhetoric to Christians as well? Do not assume you know when the truth has not yet been revealed.

"A Muslim woman, named by CNN as Loretta, told the channel she heard the gunmen shout "Allahu Akbar" - meaning God is Greatest in Arabic - as they shot children."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/692434/Munich-shooting-gunman-allahu-akbar-shot-children

[KhaoNiaw]

The religion of peace is at war again, westerners need to wake up this will be coming to your postcode soon.

And if this unknown Gun man is identified as a Lutheran or Roman Catholic will you then extend your rhetoric to Christians as well? Do not assume you know when the truth has not yet been revealed.

"A Muslim woman, named by CNN as Loretta, told the channel she heard the gunmen shout "Allahu Akbar" - meaning God is Greatest in Arabic - as they shot children."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/692434/Munich-shooting-gunman-allahu-akbar-shot-children

Express .... very credible...

[7by7]

How did this oik gain access to a gun?

No idea; but even in countries with stricter gun control laws than Germany it is possible to gain access to illegal weapons if you know someone who knows someone etc.; This has always been the case; as Messrs Adams and McGuinness and their paymasters, among others, well know.

How did he retain dual nationality when a friend here had her German passport/citizenship revoked a few weeks ago when she (ethnic European) became Thai?

1) If you naturalise as German then you have to renounce your old citizenship; unless the law of that country does not allow this or your other nationality is either another EU state or Switzerland.

2) If a German citizen takes another nationality then they have to renounce their German citizenship; unless that other citizenship is of another EU state or Switzerland.

3) If one parent is German and the other not, then their children can have dual nationality; German and that of the other parent. One of my daughter's friends has dual German/Sri Lankan nationality as his mother is German and his father Sri Lankan.

4) If born in Germany to non German parents one has temporary German nationality until the age of 23; provided at least one parent has a German permanent residence permit and has been residing in Germany for at least eight years. At the age of 23 the person has to take affirmative measures to retain their German citizenship or it will automatically expire.

As this murderer was born in Munich and is only 18 then obviously he has dual nationality due to o3) or 4).

Sorry to disappoint you.

[arjunadawn]

For any who are thankful these awful things are happening [there] and not [here] (wherever you are), realize that for every act like this "there" comes closer and closer to you.

[Basil B]

The suspect was an 18-year-old German-Iranian dual national who lived in Munich, police told a news conference, but his motive is unclear.

Lot of talk saying because he was of Iranian decent he is not an IS Terrorist be because IS is at war with Iran... like saying that during the second world war no British person would be Nazi sympathiser.

Yes - but Iranians are sponsors of terrorism at the government level.

They hang gay people in the street. Imprison people for thinking.

You saying that Iranians cannot be terrorists? That is quite a bizarre claim.

No I was questioning the idea being put about by certain media sources that he would not be an IS terrorist because he was Iranian (or part Iranian).

[arjunadawn]

This OP is a perfect example of the unintended consequences of cognitive dissonance. The Western stewards constantly invoke the refrain that 'jihad has nothing to do with islam' but the West looks at the events of every single day and does not reach that conclusion. How could it? Clearly there is a connection, if not causative then influential. In fact, the only one's constantly declaring there is no connection are now the very people facilitating the problem.

What happens is that folks read about such an event in Germany and naturally... it is now natural... reach the conclusion that 'islamic..... was the cause.' It becomes nearly incredulous when it is offered that [islamic] jihad was not involved. And this is the danger of there being no constructive narrative. It is quite true that islam itself gives rise to these heinous acts but it does not necessarily follow that there is broad culpability. With the western apologist narrative people's disgust and eventually hatred are fueled by the endless parade of death.

Instead of denying there is no connection (the most absurd worldview ever) Western stewards should have been constructively offering a narrative that encouraged those muslims who do not support this march of death to jointly reject it en masse. When muslims are also told every single day that islamic jihad has nothing to with islam there is not even an avenue to side with; they are effectively silenced because a recognition does not even exist!

Doing this would have prevented millions of westerners from concluding they are being doped.They are being doped. These acts could have been predicted by a grade school student studying world history. Therefore, it nearly seems as if [islamic] jihad is being unwittingly employed by the West itself.

[Andaman Al]

Who said here something about killing every muslim (or Hindu or Christian)? "You Christian Faith? I'm an atheist.

YOUR muslims (I think I can say now this) make themselves so lovable.

Islam in Sydney, Australia

15% of 1.6 billion is a lot of angry people... Can you make them calm down? Lot's of hugs or do you have another remedy?

Thanks for the vids.

I always thought that the further far South you go the safer life will be, - I am thinking of final destination being Aus or NZ. BUT looking at the news and the first video is a good example, Australia is really sufferring under the fundamentalist Muslim problem.

Just a thought for debate. In the first video and many like it, it is always very clear who is ring leading and inciting violence, who is holding ISIS flags etc. I find personally, this is outside freedom of speech. Is there a case for a judge to be on the surveillance team and to authorise a sniper to take out people that are clearly 100% guilty of inciting violence that could prove fatal and those carrying the flags of one of the worlds most hideous terrorist organisations". Just a thought. In the crowd in Sydney there were probably only 20 nut jobs that whipped up an otherwise peacefully protesting crowd into a frenzy. They need taking out or taking off the streets.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Andaman Al

[radiochaser]

The religion of peace is at war again, westerners need to wake up this will be coming to your postcode soon.

And if this unknown Gun man is identified as a Lutheran or Roman Catholic will you then extend your rhetoric to Christians as well? Do not assume you know when the truth has not yet been revealed.

"A Muslim woman, named by CNN as Loretta, told the channel she heard the gunmen shout "Allahu Akbar" - meaning God is Greatest in Arabic - as they shot children."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/692434/Munich-shooting-gunman-allahu-akbar-shot-children

Express .... very credible...

From your comment, I am making the inference that you doubt the credibility of the UK based news organization, express.co.uk. I am unable to argue for or against the credibility of the Express.

However, after a 30 second google search I did find this.

How much credibility would you give CNN? :

"A witness who wanted to be identified only by her first name, Lauretta, told CNN her son was in the bathroom with a shooter at the restaurant.

"That's where he loaded his weapon," she said. "I hear like an alarm and boom, boom, boom ... and he's still killing the children. The children were sitting to eat. They can't run."

Lauretta said she heard the gunman say, "Allahu Akbar," or "God is great" in Arabic. "I know this because I'm Muslim. I hear this and I only cry."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/europe/germany-munich-shooting/

(edited to change what I originally wrote.)

Edited July 23, 2016 by radiochaser

[nausea]

We now know that 3 of his victims were from Kosova, three were from Turkey, and one was from Greece. IMHO it is highly likely he was targeting immigrants, which fits in with the rest of the evidence we have to date. It is highly unlikely he was a jihadist targeting your average German national. It remains to be seen what role the alleged Facebook invitation played in all this, but it could well have been aimed at enticing young immigrants into a trap. He had a mental condition, a fascination with Brevic, he clearly identified himself as a German, he is said to have ranted about immigrants. The second hand report that someone else told me he shouted "Allahu Akbar" I don't find especially credible, being made at a time when everyone was assuming this was another Da'esh attack. I don't think the authorities are engaged in some kind of cover-up or exercise in misdirection, I think they are just following the evidence, which threw them for a while, because it does not follow the usual pattern where a Moslem shooter is concerned.

[ClutchClark]

Who started, in fact, this polarisation by acts of terror?

That started when we began the continued destabilisation of the Middle East and Africa in the 1960 + 70's. Do you actually think this is more recent?

If we are in the business of picking an arbitrary start to the time line in support of our argument I would suggest beginning when the Moors first started their invasions of North Africa and Europe from the 9th century onwards.

That could be one starting point. I personally prefer when Alexander invaded and conquered Persia in 334 B. C. and then died some 10 years later. The region has been destabilised ever since.

TH

The thing that always amazes me is the beautiful Cities built in the Centuries of the early Caliphates and the wondrous Architecture and Libraries. How they cultivated science and advancement. Yes now those same people cultivate so much hate. The wars and occupations on them do not help. But going back 600 years in thinking does not either. All I am saying is the Arab and the Middle East has produced and continues to produce some forward thinking people. By giving into the fanatics. And by Ourselves realising these are a minority not the whole. By reacting with hate we just play their game. It is easy to go along with the crowd hard to stop and think is your reaction correct or a knee jerk reflection of the hurt you feel.

An assumption that it is just a minority. Maybe its the majority but not yet the whole?

[ClutchClark]

We now know that 3 of his victims were from Kosova, three were from Turkey, and one was from Greece. IMHO it is highly likely he was targeting immigrants, which fits in with the rest of the evidence we have to date. It is highly unlikely he was a jihadist targeting your average German national. It remains to be seen what role the alleged Facebook invitation played in all this, but it could well have been aimed at enticing young immigrants into a trap. He had a mental condition, a fascination with Brevic, he clearly identified himself as a German, he is said to have ranted about immigrants. The second hand report that someone else told me he shouted "Allahu Akbar" I don't find especially credible, being made at a time when everyone was assuming this was another Da'esh attack. I don't think the authorities are engaged in some kind of cover-up or exercise in misdirection, I think they are just following the evidence, which threw them for a while, because it does not follow the usual pattern where a Moslem shooter is concerned.

Thanks for a level-headed post.

Any chance you or anyone else can provide the most current information on what is now known?

[balo]

He delivered newspapers in the neigborhood the same day,. after the job he went to the mall and started the shooting. The police found pictures of school massacres when they searched his room and on his Whatsapp profile he had uploaded a picture of massmurderer Breivik. So yes , I think it's safe to assume he had nothing to do with the Islamic State.

[Steely Dan]

Whatever the motive turns out to be some things need clarification. First, what of the other two gunmen, have they now vanished? If there were more than one it suggests shared ideology not the madness of a lone wolf lead by his own insanity.

The 'German-Iranian' arrived just two years ago, another triumph for Merkel's immigration policy. The Iranians do have a history of working with Sunni terrorists by the way so don't assume the murderer was automatically Shia.

What stands out most though is the utter incompetence and panic shown by the German government.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/25564/Iranian-refugee-kills-9-in-Munich-mall-%E2%80%98No-motive%E2%80%9D

Edited July 23, 2016 by Steely Dan

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[balo]

Whatever the motive turns out to be some things need clarification. First, what of the other two gunmen, have they now vanished? If there were more than one it suggests shared ideology not the madness of a lone wolf lead by his own insanity.

The 'German-Iranian' arrived just two years ago, another triumph for Merkel's immigration policy. The Iranians do have a history of working with Sunni terrorists by the way so don't assume the murderer was automatically Shia.

What stands out most though is the utter incompetence and panic shown by the German government.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/25564/Iranian-refugee-kills-9-in-Munich-mall-%E2%80%98No-motive%E2%80%9D

What are you talking about ? Did you read the latest news updates at all ? He was born in Germany, and he acted alone. Read the latest articles before you post stupid comments.

[happy Joe]

Whatever the motive turns out to be some things need clarification. First, what of the other two gunmen, have they now vanished? If there were more than one it suggests shared ideology not the madness of a lone wolf lead by his own insanity.

The 'German-Iranian' arrived just two years ago, another triumph for Merkel's immigration policy. The Iranians do have a history of working with Sunni terrorists by the way so don't assume the murderer was automatically Shia.

What stands out most though is the utter incompetence and panic shown by the German government.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/25564/Iranian-refugee-kills-9-in-Munich-mall-%E2%80%98No-motive%E2%80%9D

What a jumble of crap.

1 He was born in Munich

2 His model is Andreas Breivik.

3 Among the 8 victims there are 3 Turkish, 3 Kosovars and a Greek. A choice for tanned people so...

4 This boy was suffering from depression and out of psychiatric hospital care.

In summary, your speculations are totally irrelevant.

All information on Huffington Post. Choose the German edition for details.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/munich-attacks-gunman-obsessed-with-shooting-rampages_uk_57934bf8e4b06d7c426ce688?edition=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk

Edited July 23, 2016 by happy Joe

[stander]

BBC CENSORS MUNICH MURDERER’S NAME

The Munich massacre was carried out by 18-year-old Ali Sonboly. While the murder spree had no apparent connection to Muslim ideology, the BBC didn’t take any chances. As Raheem Kassam of Breitbart News documents, the BBC doggedly referred to the killer as “David Sonboly,” David being his middle name:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/07/bbc-censors-munich-murderers-name.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+powerlineblog%2Flivefeed+%28Power+Line%29