May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I suspect only a minority of students would be interested enough to stay outside school hours for debating programmes rather than watching TV/their 'phones - but perhaps it would be a start.

 

The main problem (IMO) is that the main parties have been so similar politically for a few decades now (even though they pretend otherwise), so the 'end result' is the same regardless of the party elected.  In view of this, its hardly suprising that youngsters have lost interest in politics.

 

Cameron made 'a mistake' (politically) by actually carrying out his promise of a referendum, and it bit politicians in the bum as it gave voters a genuine chance to change things .

The other aspect of life is that UK has actually not got that much control over it's own fate.  The only changes that a youngster might have noticed have been caused by outside influences - 1940's, 1970&'80's, and 1990, so why would they bother with UK politics unless they are independent.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2647/economics/history-of-inflation-in-uk/

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Yes. A filtering organism. Think of me as a mollusc:

 

 

 

Actually, you can be Brian-ish on occasion! 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Please forgive me,  but I find you nowhere near as interesting or fascinating as a cuttlefish .

 

Edit - Need to quickly add that I feel this way about the vast majority of people, so don't take it personally!

I can see why some Brexiteers would unsurprisingly be more comfortable interacting with sea creatures rather than humans.

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I can see why some Brexiteers would unsurprisingly be more comfortable interacting with sea creatures rather than humans.

Good grief - really??

 

I have some sympathies with parts of both points of view, but am far more likely to criticise remainers because they are so arrogant - as per your post.....

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Good grief - really??

 

I have some sympathies with parts of both points of view, but am far more likely to criticise remainers because they are so arrogant - as per your post.....

Good in parts. Like the Curate's Egg presumably.

[jpinx]

 

 

Einstein's supposed quote about the intelligence of a fish is most appropriate.  But within it's realm, the cuttlefish is extremely clever.

 

To the topic....  It's nice to see Junckers getting a taste of his own medicine.  Complaining about the countries being "pushed around" by the mighty USA .. ...  wasn't that exactly what Junckers was trying to do to UK over Brexit.?    Fortunately he won't be around for the finale of the brexit negotiations, nor will Schultz.  It'll be interesting to see the EU team playing musical chairs in the middles of the talks, at the same time trying not to lose the elections in various member countries.

[sandyf]

The consequences of brexit can be dismissed and labeled as anything that comes to mind, but sooner or later reality will kick in.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-ireland-republic-northern-irish-border-checkpoints-hard-louth-cvan-leitrim-a7584211.html

[jpinx]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The consequences of brexit can be dismissed and labeled as anything that comes to mind, but sooner or later reality will kick in.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-ireland-republic-northern-irish-border-checkpoints-hard-louth-cvan-leitrim-a7584211.html

Hard borders may well have to be considered, but there are many degrees of "hard".  The Irish appear to be on shaky ground these days over some internal matters, so expect the politicians to be grasping at anything to boost their profile and enhance their cause.  Back in the day, the Irish border was supposedly "hard" but there were systems for locals to be virtually unaffected, in the same way nowadays where a farmers land might be in 2 countries.  The Border issue is by no means the most likely to trip up the negotiations, there are far bigger issues to overcome. 

 

What is also interesting is the possibility of Scotland going for independence and joining the EU, only to find itself having to control an EU border.  The cases are similar and the same policies would probably apply.

Edited February 17, 2017 by jpinx

[SaintLouisBlues]

Just now, jpinx said:

What is also interesting is the possibility of Scotland going for independence and joining the EU, only to find itself having to control an EU border.  The cases are similar and the same policies would probably apply.

They could revive Hadrian's Wall

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

They could revive Hadrian's Wall

That would mean moving the border

[sandyf]

" As we leave the EU, we will seek the greatest possible access to the European single market through a new, comprehensive, bold, ambitious free trade agreement."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-cherry-pick-brexit-single-market-european-union-downing-street-bernard-cazeneuve-a7584711.html

 

The EU already has about 20 Free Trade Agreements on the table along with several other trade agreements. Does the PM really think they are going to push them to one side to facilitate her demands.

At some time in the future are we likely to see a similar statement on the EU summary as that of India.

 

" Negotiations for an ambitious and broad-based FTA were launched in June 2007 and, after 12 formal rounds and several technical meetings and discussions, were brought to a de facto standstill in the summer 2013 due to a mismatch of the level of ambitions and expectations. Negotiations focussed on market access for goods (to improve coverage of offers on both sides), services, a meaningful chapter on government procurement and sustainable development. Discussions have resumed since January 2016 with the purpose of assessing whether sufficient progress can be made in key outstanding issues before formally resuming negotiations. At the EU-India Summit of 30 March 2016, President Juncker took a clear stance in favour of tangible progress in the negotiations provided there is movement on the outstanding issues "

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2006/december/tradoc_118238.pdf

 

The EU are not the quickest entity off the block. Back in October the Canadian deal (CETA) was headline news but it is still work in progress.

 

" After the Council’s adoption of the Decisions for signature and provisional application, CETA was presented to the European Parliament for consent, where it is currently being deliberated. After EP consent, CETA could enter into force provisionally in 2017. Importantly, and in any event, CETA will not be applied before the consent of the European Parliament."

[sandyf]

12 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Hard borders may well have to be considered, but there are many degrees of "hard".  The Irish appear to be on shaky ground these days over some internal matters, so expect the politicians to be grasping at anything to boost their profile and enhance their cause.  Back in the day, the Irish border was supposedly "hard" but there were systems for locals to be virtually unaffected, in the same way nowadays where a farmers land might be in 2 countries.  The Border issue is by no means the most likely to trip up the negotiations, there are far bigger issues to overcome. 

 

What is also interesting is the possibility of Scotland going for independence and joining the EU, only to find itself having to control an EU border.  The cases are similar and the same policies would probably apply.

Reunification would make the border issue a moot point. The fact is that passport control and customs into the north could very well be the reality and something the people on both sides will have to come to terms with.

 

[jpinx]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Reunification would make the border issue a moot point. The fact is that passport control and customs into the north could very well be the reality and something the people on both sides will have to come to terms with.

 

Absolutely - but it's no big deal.  The locals had it all before, and cars had triptiques and so on..  everything is possible to mitigate the inconvenience of the security

[jpinx]

It's worth bearing in mind that it was the 6 counties of Northern Ireland that seceded from Ireland when independence was being resolved. .  It's a classic case of having to be very careful about what you wish for .....    Scotland -- take note

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, jpinx said:

That would mean moving the border

 You mean to the Antonine Wall. If so would that mean returning Edinburgh to the Kingdom of Northumbria? Leaving where as the capital of Scotland.

[jpinx]

14 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 You mean to the Antonine Wall. If so would that mean returning Edinburgh to the Kingdom of Northumbria? Leaving where as the capital of Scotland.

No -- down to the Fosse way -- the original demarcation between north and south....

Edited February 17, 2017 by jpinx

[Orac]

Looks like there is finally something being done to get everyone to pull together to get brexit sorted by having someone slightly less popular than Garry Glitter spearhead a pro-EU stance.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38996179

[jpinx]

5 minutes ago, Orac said:

Looks like there is finally something being done to get everyone to pull together to get brexit sorted by having someone slightly less popular than Garry Glitter spearhead a pro-EU stance.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38996179

Good grief !  Not him again!!  Fortunately he'll only be talking to the remain disciples, and being paid handsomely for his evenings "work".  Certainly a good chance for TM to drag out some skeletons......

[Khun Han]

10 minutes ago, Orac said:

Looks like there is finally something being done to get everyone to pull together to get brexit sorted by having someone slightly less popular than Garry Glitter spearhead a pro-EU stance.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38996179

 

That scumbag should be in Europe alright: being tried for war crimes in The Hague. You would have thought the deal for letting him get away with mass murder would involve him keeping a low profile and his mouth shut. Shows how desperate his globalist friends are becoming, that he's being allowed to pipe up.

[Khun Han]

Good article on a thoughtful presentation by Mark Zuckerberg:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38998884

 

Interestingly, Mark raises the subject of globalisation's ability to eradicate pandemics. Unfortunately, this has been one of the big failures of the way globalisation has developed in an overly corporate way: the multinational pharmaco's used all their power and influence to hold the world to ransom over effective HIV drugs, and it took a peoples rebellion and action by India and Africa to break this stranglehold. Unfortunately, big pharma is now doing exactly the same thing with the cure for HCV, having worked out a way to get India onside.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

That scumbag should be in Europe alright: being tried for war crimes in The Hague. You would have thought the deal for letting him get away with mass murder would involve him keeping a low profile and his mouth shut. Shows how desperate his globalist friends are becoming, that he's being allowed to pipe up.

Aren't you being slightly over the top? A little moderation would be civilised don't you think? With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, Iraq was a disaster. Didn't seem quite so obvious at the time I suspect....

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

Good article on a thoughtful presentation by Mark Zuckerberg:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38998884

 

Interestingly, Mark raises the subject of globalisation's ability to eradicate pandemics. Unfortunately, this has been one of the big failures of the way globalisation has developed in an overly corporate way: the multinational pharmaco's used all their power and influence to hold the world to ransom over effective HIV drugs, and it took a peoples rebellion and action by India and Africa to break this stranglehold. Unfortunately, big pharma is now doing exactly the same thing with the cure for HCV, having worked out a way to get India onside.

They should do something about HGVs while they're at it ?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Aren't you being slightly over the top? A little moderation would be civilised don't you think? With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, Iraq was a disaster. Didn't seem quite so obvious at the time I suspect....

 

Hindsight my backside. The man's a war criminal, with the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands. He's just lucky enough to be protected by the Establishment. If the tables were turned, he'd have been hung in place of Saddam.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

They should do something about HGVs while they're at it ?

Yes, lets make inane jokes about big pharma's culpability in the deaths of over half-a-million people a year. I'm beginning to wonder about your mental health.

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Hindsight my backside. The man's a war criminal, with the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands. He's just lucky enough to be protected by the Establishment. If the tables were turned, he'd have been hung in place of Saddam.

Kindly explain?

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Yes, lets make inane jokes about big pharma's culpability in the deaths of over half-a-million people a year. I'm beginning to wonder about your mental health.

Then kindly explain your TLAs. 

 

And then explain what this has has to do with Brexit

Edited February 17, 2017 by Grouse

[Khun Han]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Kindly explain?

 

Read the history.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Read the history.

I have (including a précis of Chilcot)

 

So go on, which particular event do you take issue with?

 

I'm not pulling your leg; I would like to know.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Grouse

[Khun Han]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Then kindly explain your TLAs. 

 

And then explain what this has has to do with Brexit

 

Wow! We've found someone (a scientist, no less) who's never heard of HIV or HCV!!!

 

Brexit is, in large part, a retreat from the unaccepteable face of globalism. The stuff about big pharma and pandemics (as touched upon by Mark Zuckerberg in the linked article) is a good example of the very unaccepteable face of globalism.

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I have (including a précis of Chilcot)

 

So go on, which particular event do you take issue with?

 

I'm not pulling your leg; I would like to know.

 

 

 

The made-up 'weapons of mass destruction' report presented to the Lower House might be a bit of a start .