Permanent Residence / Thai Nationality

[dru2]

Can anyone recommend a Chiang Mai lawyer to assist and advise in applying for either of these options, please?

 

I have a recommended Bangkok legal firm, but they say I have to submit the application through Chiang Mai immigration as my house book is registered here.

 

Many thanks for any advice.

 

Dru

[ubonjoe]

Only Permanent residency is applied for at immigration and you don't need to have a house book registry to apply in Bangkok. Chances are CM immigration will tell you to apply for it in Bangkok

Thai Nationality is applied for at the special branch police office. It does require a house book for Bangkok to apply for it at the office there.

[baywatch82]

I was looking for long... and unable to find.
If you know anyone, please let me know.

I have contacted several CM law firms. One very reputable told me that PR is only by a minister of Thailand and I can not apply lol.

I found one company from BKK willing to help, they are asking 500,000 baht to prepare my application.
Not refundable if my application fails.

I think (not sure) only BKK immigration deals with PR, so almost impossible to find someone in Chiang Mai to have any experience with it. 

[brianinbangkok]

I did it without a lawyer in BKK CW.
Practically the only place to apply.

More information here :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/74654-Camerata's-Guide-To-The-Permanent-Residence-Process

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[THAIJAMES]

In the past people have gotten their PR from Chiang Mai without going to Bangkok.    I don't think that has happened in the last 5-10 years.  You can go to CM Immigration and ask them to see if they are enthusiastic to take on your application.

 

I personally got mine from Bangkok (applied 9 years ago and got it 2 years ago), but that was also a hassle having to fly there every six months etc. and for interviews.

You do not need a lawyer and your accountant should be able to provide you with all the documents that you need.

Most documents required are of a financial nature and your accountant is much better placed to provide these.

 

As far as citizenship.   I recommend if you can to move your Tabien Baan to Bangkok and apply there.

I don't think they will be receptive in CM as there have been hundreds of applications with maybe only a few successful ones.

 

 

 

 

 

[SpoliaOpima]

I'm working with a lawyer in Bangkok on my Thai citizenship application. I hold a yellow house reg book for Chiang Mai.

 

Here's what my lawyer said about where and how I need to apply, once the paperwork is prepared:

 

To follow up on our conversations and issues, we have checked with an authorized officer at the Special Branch, Royal Thai Police and found that:
 

1) it is confirmed that you have to submit the application and even take a test at Chiang Mai Provincial Police as it is based on your residing location appeared on the YELLOW house registration. However, after you pass the test and the documents are reviewed and investigated, then they will send all the documents to the Special Branch in Bangkok afterwards. The reason is that Chiang Mai police will visit your place and investigate your site, since you did not apply for permanent resident.

[THAIJAMES]

I spent quite a bit of time researching citizenship application from Chiang Mai.  The process is much more complicated as the bureaucratic steps needed are more complex. It then needs to be approved by Bangkok anyways.  I know one person received citizenship last year from Chiang Mai.  However I think they went directly to BORA (interior Ministry) which then ensured that special branches moved on the application.  Otherwise your application like hundreds of others will stay in a pile there doing nothing.  Unlike Immigration, A bribe would probably help as that is the culture within special branch.

 

As many others have said, you are much better off moving your Tabien Baan to Bangkok and doing it there as it guarantees more transparency and a likely successful outcome.

In any case please keep us informed of your progress.

 

 

[Arkady]

I have been through both the PR and citizenship processes and I can't imagine how a law firm could be helpful for either. . I have yet to come across a law firm that was really knowledgeable about either process and some of the information they give out is downright misleading. The worst risk of using Thai lawyers is that they may claim that bribes are needed when this is not the case.  They may just pocket these themselves, if you pay up, and you will be none the wiser but will not get any special treatment.  It's much better to deal with Immigration or Special Branch directly.  They prefer it too.  When you see the quality of the lawyers or hustlers that Chinese applicants show up with, you will understand why. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

I have been through both the PR and citizenship processes and I can't imagine how a law firm could be helpful for either. . I have yet to come across a law firm that was really knowledgeable about either process and some of the information they give out is downright misleading. The worst risk of using Thai lawyers is that they may claim that bribes are needed when this is not the case.  They may just pocket these themselves, if you pay up, and you will be none the wiser but will not get any special treatment.  It's much better to deal with Immigration or Special Branch directly.  They prefer it too.  When you see the quality of the lawyers or hustlers that Chinese applicants show up with, you will understand why. 

 

Lawyer and 500,000Baht just for PR application is a serious rip off, perhaps the word fraud is ever more applicable.

 

Well over 20 years ago for PR I used the services of the Thai husband of a female work colleague. He approached me saying he wanted to start a small agency with such services and he offered to take me through PR or 5,000Baht. I knew him and his wife well and I trusted them. Although I was his first client he had done his homework well and it all went very smoothly. From memory the official application fee was 1,000Baht.

 

In those days from application to approval was generally about 8 or 9 months. My first and only interview was with a senior Imm. officer who indicated at the end of the 1 hour interview that he had approved my application but it would take some months to get through the committee etc., and get the final letter issued.

 

A couple of years later the agents Thai wife was offered a very good promotion to relocate to the USA, which she took up and hubby went too, and still both in US and retired. 

 

[THAIJAMES]

"A bribe would probably help as that is the culture within special branch."

 

Sorry I should have said in Chiang Mai.  Although a friend of mine that got citizenship from bangkok many years ago said that he had to pay 1 million baht to speed up the application process.

[Arkady]

On 12/13/2016 at 8:16 PM, THAIJAMES said:

"A bribe would probably help as that is the culture within special branch."

 

Sorry I should have said in Chiang Mai.  Although a friend of mine that got citizenship from bangkok many years ago said that he had to pay 1 million baht to speed up the application process.

 

One very underrated achievement of the ruling military government is the introduction of greater transparency into the citizenship application process. Within months of seizing power, they approved hundreds of applicants, many of whom had been waiting without hearing anything for up to 8 years.  They have also speeded up the process for new applicants.  This seems to be part of their "good guys in, bad guys out" which they take very seriously.  Similar good things have been happening in the PR application process.

 

Whatever lawyers or others might say, there is absolutely no reason to  pay a bribe of this sort.  It will not speed up your application at all but will only make some crooked lawyer or other middle man very happy.  What the future holds, no one can say.  So anyone interested who is already qualified would be well advised to apply without delay.  

[EricTh]

There don't seem to be any front-door options at Chiang Mai immigration.

 

When I asked around, none of the officers knew about this.

 

 

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

 

One very underrated achievement of the ruling military government is the introduction of greater transparency into the citizenship application process.

 

Could you please give us the address of the place for PR application? We need to be PR before getting a citizenship.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Arkady said:

Whatever lawyers or others might say, there is absolutely no reason to  pay a bribe of this sort.  It will not speed up your application at all but will only make some crooked lawyer or other middle man very happy. 

 

I dont see how anyone would be able to make that statement with confidence.. 

 

A long time ago (more than 10 year I guess now) I was offered the end result of the process for 650k baht.. From someone very well connected in the power system. If that had worked had I paid it I cannot say. I was told as well as the payment I would need to work on my Thai language. 

[THAIJAMES]

Please keep us updated after you have handed in your documents.

[stament]

what are the prerequisites?

[moriozzo]

On 12/12/2016 at 7:25 PM, THAIJAMES said:

I spent quite a bit of time researching citizenship application from Chiang Mai.  The process is much more complicated as the bureaucratic steps needed are more complex. It then needs to be approved by Bangkok anyways.  I know one person received citizenship last year from Chiang Mai.  However I think they went directly to BORA (interior Ministry) which then ensured that special branches moved on the application.  Otherwise your application like hundreds of others will stay in a pile there doing nothing.  Unlike Immigration, A bribe would probably help as that is the culture within special branch.

 

As many others have said, you are much better off moving your Tabien Baan to Bangkok and doing it there as it guarantees more transparency and a likely successful outcome.

In any case please keep us informed of your progress.

 

 

Hi THAIJAMES, I would really really appreciate if you could take a minute and help me out giving me some advices. I'm also applying for citizenship right now and read your comment on directly going to the BORA (interior Ministry) Could you please give me some recommendations? I'm afraid that my application will just be ignored. Also, did your friend bribe a lot?

[THAIJAMES]

4 hours ago, moriozzo said:

Hi THAIJAMES, I would really really appreciate if you could take a minute and help me out giving me some advices. I'm also applying for citizenship right now and read your comment on directly going to the BORA (interior Ministry) Could you please give me some recommendations? I'm afraid that my application will just be ignored. Also, did your friend bribe a lot?

That information is now outdated.  The local police have started processing some applications that were made this year.  I believe around 10 persons.  Those persons have had their applications forwarded to Bangkok and some have had interview with the Interior Ministry.

 

So I would assume that since the local police have gone through the process, they should now be familiar with what is required.  (hopefully they have not made any major mistakes that will put the applicants in jeopardy)

 

My advice is to go to the police special branch on the Chiang Mai Lampang road and show them your documents.

 

I would also go to Bora in the government complex and show them your documents.

 

I do not believe any bribes were given or should be given.

 

Please report back here for the benefit of everyone else.

 

Happy to answer any questions if you have any specific information you need.

 

[moriozzo]

19 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

That information is now outdated.  The local police have started processing some applications that were made this year.  I believe around 10 persons.  Those persons have had their applications forwarded to Bangkok and some have had interview with the Interior Ministry.

 

So I would assume that since the local police have gone through the process, they should now be familiar with what is required.  (hopefully they have not made any major mistakes that will put the applicants in jeopardy)

 

My advice is to go to the police special branch on the Chiang Mai Lampang road and show them your documents.

 

I would also go to Bora in the government complex and show them your documents.

 

I do not believe any bribes were given or should be given.

 

Please report back here for the benefit of everyone else.

 

Happy to answer any questions if you have any specific information you need.

 

Thanks a lot for the reply. Sure i will keep updating once there is a process. My only issue is that I don't own a permanent Residence and would like to avoid that. Do you know if that is possible or does a citizenship require having a permanent residency. 

[THAIJAMES]

On 9/6/2018 at 3:43 PM, moriozzo said:

Thanks a lot for the reply. Sure i will keep updating once there is a process. My only issue is that I don't own a permanent Residence and would like to avoid that. Do you know if that is possible or does a citizenship require having a permanent residency. 

If you are married (I think for at least 3 years) you don't need permanent residency.

[klaus80]

On 9/5/2018 at 8:39 PM, THAIJAMES said:

My advice is to go to the police special branch on the Chiang Mai Lampang road and show them your documents.

 

Where exactly is the police special branch? Could you send a map reference?

[cmsally]

This is the place

 

Streetview

 

To enquire about nationality used to be on the right but I think they now moved somewhere into the back, behind the new building (or maybe now in the new building). If you ask, someone will point you in the right direction.

[klaus80]

13 minutes ago, cmsally said:

This is the place

 

Streetview

 

To enquire about nationality used to be on the right but I think they now moved somewhere into the back, behind the new building (or maybe now in the new building). If you ask, someone will point you in the right direction.

thanks

[EricTh]

Does anybody know whether an applicant need to pass a Thai language proficiency test?

 

Just like TOEFL, IELTS for English?

 

Where can we take the test?

[THAIJAMES]

14 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Does anybody know whether an applicant need to pass a Thai language proficiency test?

 

Just like TOEFL, IELTS for English?

 

Where can we take the test?

No you will be rated by the police and interior ministry based on answers to various questions including how well you can read or write thai.   I suggest you look at the citizenship thread in the visa forum for much more information.

 

 

[cmsally]

11 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

No you will be rated by the police and interior ministry based on answers to various questions including how well you can read or write thai.   I suggest you look at the citizenship thread in the visa forum for much more information.

 

 

Language proficiency is not a prerequisite as one of the first questions is if you need a translator. However there must be a "points allocation" for Thai language proficiency. Also in the final interview I was asked if I could read Thai which was checked in that I had to read the sign in front of me which was in Thai.

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Language proficiency is not a prerequisite as one of the first questions is if you need a translator. However there must be a "points allocation" for Thai language proficiency. Also in the final interview I was asked if I could read Thai which was checked in that I had to read the sign in front of me which was in Thai.

Are not the interviews themselves conducted in Thai ? Are you saying you can take a translator along ? I thought the process was being asked questions in Thai, to show you understand, and answering in Thai ?

[Esso49]

On 9/7/2018 at 9:56 AM, THAIJAMES said:

If you are married (I think for at least 3 years) you don't need permanent residency.

You don't need permanent residency if you are married for 3 years  ? Why don't you need it and where is the source of this information ?

[THAIJAMES]

Thai Citizenship  -  Points Allocation (minimum 50/100 required for further consideration)  2010

AGE AND EDUCATION

 

Age:
20 t0 30 - 2 points
30 to 40 – 5 points
40 to 50 – 10 points
50 to 60 – 8 points
Over 60 – 5 points

Education:
Mor 6 and above – 3 points
Diploma – 5 points
Bachelors Degree – 8 points
Masters Degree – 10 points
Doctrate – 15 points

 

SECURITY OF PROFESSION

Income (monthly):
80,000 to 90,000 – 15 points
90,000 to 100,000 – 20 points
Over 100,000 – 25 points

 

OR

Income (monthly) in the case of ethnic minorities (e.g. stateless persons of hill tribe, Burmese, Vietnamese origin – Arkady’s note):
40,000 to 50,000 – 15 points
50,000 to 60,000 – 20 points
Over 60,000 – 25 points

 

OR

Income (monthly) in the case of ethnic minorities holding an Alien ID Card (type issued to stateless persons – Arkady’s note) for 10 years or more:
20,000 to 30,000 – 15 points
30,000 to 40,000 – 20 points
Over 40,000 – 25 points

OR

Income (monthly) in the case of those married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
40,000 to 50,000 – 15 points
50,000 to 60,000 – 20 points
Over 60,000 – 25 points

 

OR

Income (monthly) in the case of ethnic minorities married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
20,000 to 30,000 – 15 points
30,000 to 40,000 – 20 points
Over 40,000 – 25 points

 

Alternatively points for security of profession based on salary tax paid in the year before application and this is somewhat confusingly based on salary rather than amount of tax paid.   Points for payment of tax used to be allocated over and above those allocated for salary and it is not clear what is the purpose of this alternative in the 2010 points section, unless it is just a surreptitious way to raise the bar slightly.  If anyone knows, please post.  Omitting the minorities this time, it is thus.

 

Income (monthly) on which tax paid:
80,000 to 100,000 – 15 points
100,000 to 120,000 – 20 points
Over 120,000 – 25 points

 

OR

 

Income (monthly) on which tax paid in the case of those married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
40,000 to 60,000 – 15 points
60,000 to 80,000 – 20 points
Over 80,000 – 25 points

 

 

RESIDENCE IN THAILAND   

 

Domicile:
Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years but no Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate – 5 points

Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years and has Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate for at least 5 years – 10 points

Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years and has Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate for at least 7 years – 15 points

Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years and has Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate for at least 10 years – 20 points

 

(Arkady’s note: “evidence of civil registration” refers to the Civil Registration Act which, as amended in 2008, requires all residents to be registered in House Registration Books or tabian baan, including foreigners residing temporarily in Thailand).
 

KNOWLEDGE OF THAI LANGUAGE

Thai Language Ability:

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai – 8 points

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai and sing the National and Royal Anthems  – 10 points

 

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai, sing the National and Royal Anthems, and read Thai  – 13 points

 

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai, sing the National and Royal Anthems, and read and write Thai  – 15 points

 

 

KNOWLEDGE OF THAILAND

 

Has a medium level knowledge of Thailand

(1-5 correct answers) – 5 points

 

Has a good knowledge of Thailand

(6-8 correct answers) – 8 points

 

Has a very good knowledge of Thailand

(9-10 correct answers) -10 points

PERSONALITY 

 

Assessment based on personality, physical appearance and bearing, speech, Thai manners, attitude towards Thailand, Thai culture and ceremonies.  5 - points 

[THAIJAMES]

Here is some more info

brochure.pdf

5a6caf454ca00_ThaiNationalityApplicationeng.pdf