Whatever happened to The Avenues?

[Rimmer]

Topic is about the Avenue not washing machines, please stay on topic, thank you.

[chrisandsu]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

I'm not comparing them two "demo graphs." But after all you were referring to "ANY stores in thailand" actually making money and specifically "central mall in Chang Mai." I'm simply pointing out, as your own post verifies, that to our average TVF Poster any new mall anywhere has always been one too many and is destined to fail--for the same reasons everywhere in thailand.

 

CentralFestival Pattaya Beach, which I mentioned, "oversaturated" the Pattaya market because of all of our economists' usual rules: Fixed Pie (fundamental principle in the TVF economics Standard Model; read more here), Only One Needed, Got One Already, Only Farangs Have Money, Looking Not Buying, etc. You see we already had Royal Garden (in the upscale market) and that was all that would ever be needed. Central was gonna charge Bangkok prices!!! Impossible. Hence it was firmly predicted to fail; indeed some of our most distinguished economists still delude themselves that they've discovered fresh confirmation that it's going to fail just any time now as predicted nearly 8 years ago.

 

Yet it's doing better than ever. OMG. We seemed to have, like, missed something.

 

So guess you'll just have to consider it one o' them unfathomable Mysteries Of The Orient. Nor would I place any faith in dire prophecies. Well, I'm off to see a movie at the "deserted" mall today.

I guess the rents must be cheap as you as an ardent defender  won't even succumb to buying 'things' there . As I said in the previous post the food court keeps the doors open and now I'll add the movie theatre and air conditioning to that list ?

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, chrisandsu said:

I guess the rents must be cheap as you as an ardent defender  won't even succumb to buying 'things' there . As I said in the previous post the food court keeps the doors open and now I'll add the movie theatre and air conditioning to that list ?

 

No, I often do buy things there at various shops but you see I'm not the only shopper in that mall (though you can't see any others; as I noted, our posters are very near-sighted) and I don't have to buy something every day for the mall to remain open. Nor am I defending the mall but simply laughing at the nonsense said about malls here on the forum and the dire prophecies as to Pattaya's fate.

 

Your misconception simply reflects another amusing principle of TVF Poster Economics: the All Times rule, to wit: to be successful, a shop must have customers lined up at the cash registers at all times from the very first moment it opens its doors. Thus they can always be seen by My Eyeballs At Random Intervals to validate that the shop is not losing money and about to close just any day. And All Times is forever. Suppose a shop is once seen to have customers BUYING but then at another random time they are not lined up at the cash registers and so are clearly Looking Not Buying. (There's no Looking Before Buying.) That violates our No Change rule and thus we confidently pronounce the shop dying and predict it'll be soon boarded up.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, TheJayMan said:

Here are two reasons, besides the ones already mentioned, that make the Central Festival Mall better than the Avenues Mall.

 

1.) The Avenues doesn't have the parking for the Double Decker Tour buses or the connections to draw them.  The intelligent, beautiful and wealthy Chinese tourists that are adored and worshiped by most Thais.  They are among the most desirable customers for shops to have.

 

2.) The Avenues allows street vendors to set up there shops on the lawn area and sidewalk in front of their mall.  The vendors sell cheap Chinese made clothes and souvenirs.  They undercut  the prices of the items in the shops in the mall.

 

 

You are right on regarding #2.  But, I see this at Royal and Central also.  The center of the mall has spots set up with a bunch of bargains 1/4 the cost or less then the shops.  Those areas are packed whilst the shops not so much. 

[chrisandsu]

7 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

No, I often do buy things there at various shops but you see I'm not the only shopper in that mall (though you can't see any others; as I noted, our posters are very near-sighted) and I don't have to buy something every day for the mall to remain open. Nor am I defending the mall but simply laughing at the nonsense said about malls here on the forum and the dire prophecies as to Pattaya's fate.

 

Your misconception simply reflects another amusing principle of TVF Poster Economics: the All Times rule, to wit: to be successful, a shop must have customers lined up at the cash registers at all times from the very first moment it opens its doors. Thus they can always be seen by My Eyeballs At Random Intervals to validate that the shop is not losing money and about to close just any day. And All Times is forever. Suppose a shop is once seen to have customers BUYING but then at another random time they are not lined up at the cash registers and so are clearly Looking Not Buying. (There's no Looking Before Buying.) That violates our No Change rule and thus we confidently pronounce the shop dying and predict it'll be soon boarded up.

I do understand where you are coming from but to be honest the only thing I truly believe is my own eyeballs (false accounting won't intice me to buy a business) in most areas I can appreciate and completely validate your arguement that money can be made without an exchange of goods , here we are talking about a mall , yes the wages for staff will be cheap but the rent won't be . Maybe the shop fronts are used more as an advertising tool? I just can't figure out for the life of me how they make money and neither can my SIL who is the accounts manager for a major restaurant at Siam paragon . 

[BruceMangosteen]

3 hours ago, TheJayMan said:

 

2.) The Avenues allows street vendors to set up there shops on the lawn area and sidewalk in front of their mall.  The vendors sell cheap Chinese made clothes and souvenirs.  They undercut  the prices of the items in the shops in the mall.

 

 

They don't allow said vendors...they rent the space to them and said rent includes key money even for Thai people. The income from these vendors and I assume the few stable tenants must make the "owners" happy and satisfy the financial obligations said have. 

[balo]

I will miss the Avenue. It's been a part of my life since I arrived Thailand. Always went there for the movies and bowling , nothing else. 

 

Now what will they do with all that empty space?   

[Jingthing]

Who said it was closing? Did I miss something?

[balo]

I don't know , I didn't read the whole thread , so it will still be called The Avenue ? 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:37 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Slowly dying.

As an occasional visitor I notice that quite clearly.

Use the entrance from Soi 15 and it has a "deserted" look/feel.

 

Open air shopping centers in hot climate.

Epic failure.

And too many competitors.

Another mall, another mall, another mall ...

Even Pattaya seems to have limits.

Correct, BUT, it would be very easy to put up glass walls on edge of the floors. Need AC installing of course. Could be done given the will.

 

I'd like to see it become Pattaya's equivalent of Nana Plaza.

[Jingthing]

I don't know , I didn't read the whole thread , so it will still be called The Avenue ? 
 
 

Same place. Same name.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Correct, BUT, it would be very easy to put up glass walls on edge of the floors. Need AC installing of course. Could be done given the will.

 

I'd like to see it become Pattaya's equivalent of Nana Plaza.

HAHAHA.  Avenue same NANA?  Sorry, but you smoking something?

No way.

It would be great to have a new place like NANA, but no way at Avenue.

[bkk6060]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Who said it was closing? Did I miss something?

Half the place has closed.  So whats next?

[Jingthing]

Half the place has closed.  So whats next?

Lower rents?

[BruceMangosteen]

45 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Half the place has closed.  So whats next?

More than half has been empty for many years. Actually, my guess is Villa is losing money but don't know how much rent they pay. The only real profitable food venues are McDonalds, and now the fairly new Japanese place. I'm not sure if the third floor Japanese place survived? Doubt it. But the Oshai whatever is good and busy albeit overpriced for what they serve...

[JSixpack]

On 1/4/2017 at 3:11 PM, chrisandsu said:

Maybe the shop fronts are used more as an advertising tool?

 

To draw customers into the Food Court! That must be it.

 

No.

 

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I just can't figure out for the life of me how they make money

 

You said that already and I observed that it's just gon' have to remain on o' them Mysteries Of The Orient, as you've only got My Eyeballs At Random Intervals. We got it, man! Similarly you'd not be able to figure out how the suburban malls in the USA make money either. Same thing.

 

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and neither can my SIL who is the accounts manager for a major restaurant at Siam paragon .

 

Quote

Bkk and Pattaya have very different demo graphs don't try to Compare the two

 

 

 

[chrisandsu]

47 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

To draw customers into the Food Court! That must be it.

 

No.

 

 

You said that already and I observed that it's just gon' have to remain on o' them Mysteries Of The Orient, as you've only got My Eyeballs At Random Intervals. We got it, man! Similarly you'd not be able to figure out how the suburban malls in the USA make money either. Same thing.

 

 

 

 

 

You are really good at picking and choosing what you quote . ? end

[bkk6060]

One thing this mall has that maybe some do not know are Fat clothes.  Huge sizes at this place I have never heard of 7XL.  It is inside Villa Market I have never seen sizes so big.

Anyway, if you know someone in need of such clothing this place probably has it including a decent selection of styles.

[William Osborne]

i was in the Robin Hood the other night night..... can recommend the place if you like that type of indoor bar... and 70 baht bottle of Leo ... hell of a lot better than going to somewhere like Jamesons and paying 130 baht a bottle of beer !......

[tropo]

On 12/24/2016 at 2:37 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Slowly dying.

As an occasional visitor I notice that quite clearly.

Use the entrance from Soi 15 and it has a "deserted" look/feel.

 

Open air shopping centers in hot climate.

Epic failure.

And too many competitors.

Another mall, another mall, another mall ...

Even Pattaya seems to have limits.

 

I don't think it is slowly dying - it has always been dead since it opened in 2007. The California Wow gym breathed some life into the area for awhile. Probably only Oishi and McDonald's make money there.

[champers]

It does look like there is a saturation point that has been reached. The Bay at Soi 5 on Beach Road looks like a white elephant. That said, Soi Buckouw is due for some major development. Interesting times.

[lapd]

Pattaya has been constantly changing ever since I started going there many years ago.   Keeps growing.  So things aren't really dying, just shifting around a bit.  Avenue seemed like a choice location many years ago and everyone thought it was going to kill off Royal Garden.  Then Central Festival came along.  I don't see how Royal Garden keeps going but it does.  The only thing I know for sure is that things will keep changing.  There are a lot of newer condos around Avenue so it's still a good location.

 

If you ask me, I think Avenue would make a great Nana Plaza type venue but they don't seem to be interested in doing anything like that.

[toenail]

13 hours ago, William Osborne said:

i was in the Robin Hood the other night night..... can recommend the place if you like that type of indoor bar... and 70 baht bottle of Leo ... hell of a lot better than going to somewhere like Jamesons and paying 130 baht a bottle of beer !......

Yes, I have been to Robinhood  a couple times (I go to the Avenue to see my movies and then pick up a couple items at Villa Market that I cannot find elsewhere.)  So far, food above the norm, and reasonable prices on the beer. Waitresses need to be better trained to NOT be chatting away with each other when a customer may need to order another beer or needs to order food. (I guess that is what the bell is for-555) Live singing last night after 6pm.  Hope the best. Note: If I was opening up this new place, I would send one of the cute waitresses on the ground floor (where the steps begin) and pass out a free drink or 5% off voucher off meal menu just to entice people to get their arse up to the restaurant. Once inside, they will be impressed and return.

[toenail]

Though I have a car, I choose to take public transportation in short commutes in Pattaya (less stress)- I live along the songtaew routes. It also forces me to walk more which is good...but crossing 2nd Rd in front of the Avenue is a big pain in the arse. Since most businesses there depend on the tourist dollar, most tourists are not going to play "chicken who crossed the road" in this particular spot. There needs to be a police (hire him off hours) to stop traffic in order to allow the people to cross safely. 2nd road acts as a "wall" in discouraging people to go to the Avenue.

True, best to convert it into condos.

[Rimmer]

I have now removed all the posts about 'American Retailers closing' One or two posts as a comparison is OK but when the off topic starts to hijack the topic they have to go.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, lapd said:

Pattaya has been constantly changing ever since I started going there many years ago.   Keeps growing.  So things aren't really dying, just shifting around a bit.  Avenue seemed like a choice location many years ago and everyone thought it was going to kill off Royal Garden.  Then Central Festival came along.  I don't see how Royal Garden keeps going but it does.  The only thing I know for sure is that things will keep changing.  There are a lot of newer condos around Avenue so it's still a good location.

 

If you ask me, I think Avenue would make a great Nana Plaza type venue but they don't seem to be interested in doing anything like that.

Hmmmmm. I was at the opening and I knew even then it would fail. How anyone could open a non AC mall is beyond me.

Central wasn't the cause of it's failure. It failed years  before Central.

I like R G mall, always have. If they had kept the cinemas open, I'd still go there more than I do. Back in the day, it was THE place. Midnight movies and a Maccers before hitting the feathers was always a favourite with me. Saw a lot of great movies there, but the projectionists sometimes left bits off the end.

[gk10002000]

having a somewhat open courtyard, maybe something that works for outdoors?  Add some greenery, make the place a little more quiet sanctuary type of place bistro atmosphere?  Plenty of shopping and stores all over Pattaya so I can't imagine any type of regular store doing much there. 

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. I was at the opening and I knew even then it would fail.

 

No you didn't, not any more than all the other constructions you "know" will fail, like CentralFestival.

 

What's amusing is that one can't find any TVF doom predictions re: The Avenue when it opened. Which meant that it was in fact doomed. :)

 

Quote

How anyone could open a non AC mall is beyond me.

 

A given. But it all depends on where it is and what it's selling to whom.

 

Quote

I like R G mall, always have. If they had kept the cinemas open, I'd still go there more than I do. Back in the day, it was THE place. Midnight movies and a Maccers before hitting the feathers was always a favourite with me. Saw a lot of great movies there, but the projectionists sometimes left bits off the end.

 

This is key to our mall doomsters' thinking about all other malls after RG. They violate the Only One and Got One Already rules. And the thing is, RG didn't charge them ungodly Bangkok prices, which would of course doom CentralFestival. Sad to see those bleached ruins just lying there in decay, ready to fall down just any day . . . .  

 

You've forgotten about the delays, sometimes up to 30 min, at Royal Garden while the movie reel was rewound at a Big C N. Pattaya cinema and transported to RG for the next showing. They did give me a refund once when I walked out.

 

[Rimmer]

More USA news in the Pattaya Mall topic has been trashed, even with my previous removal notice and explanation above, do not post USA business in this topic it serves only to hijack the topic.

[digbeth]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

You've forgotten about the delays, sometimes up to 30 min, at Royal Garden while the movie reel was rewound at a Big C N. Pattaya cinema and transported to RG for the next showing. They did give me a refund once when I walked out.

 

 

That's fun, didn't know they do that in Pattaya back then too, I remember in Bangkok cinemas along Sukhumvit road before the multiplexes, they would shuttle their reels around on motorcycles, while first reel would start, if the courier got held up, the screen would go white and the house light come on while they wait for the other reels to arrive, they'd do this relay along the road with one set of prints could be shown in 3-4 cinemas along the road from Siam Sq. all the way to Bang Kapi in one afternoon

 

Back to the topic, even the similar 'Avenues' open air mall built by the same developer around Bangkok is looking dilapidated these days with tenants moving out too,  The one I frequent in Chaeng Wattana is pretty grim, They had a Villa Market and a Major Cinema just like Pattaya, while the only one that seem to do fine is in Thong Lor where the posh Thais are... most of the upper floors of these 'Avenues' in Bangkok seem to be beauty clinics, nail place and such that is not dependent on foot traffic.... how many beauty clinics, dental place and salons there are already in Pattaya?