Condo asking prices vs. actual sale price

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I was offered 1MB for a condo I am selling for 1.5....I told him to bugger off (phrased it more nicely than that) I would rather burn it down (or at least wait for the market to pick up again). I myself have a little bit of decency and diginity and will always offer a fair price for a fair property. I have been buying and selling most of my life and have always closed a deal where both the buyer and seller are contented with the result. This principle has always stood me well. Any old fool can try to take advantage of people but honor to me is more importand than money and "sticking" it to a person.

 

So buyers actually have a moral and ethical duty to pay your inflated price. And if no one is willing to pay your price, they are taking advantage. How silly of all the buyers to think that an oversupply of condos would result in a drop in price. I have seen sellers try to prop up a market and justify unrealistic high pricing, I have never actually seen the buyers being blamed for not being decent chaps and showing some dignity.

[LongTimeLurker]

20 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

The nub of the matter is what is a 'fair price'. Buyer and seller might differ on this. When I see condos in 'good' buildings (e.g. VT1, 2) unsold after more than a year then I conclude that the asking price is not 'fair'.

Its not a question of being a 'Cheap Charlie', its not being a mug and paying over the market price. The market price would be one that achieves a sale within a reasonable time frame.

 

Your problem appears to be that you consider VT1 & 2 to be good buildings.

[Artben]

1 hour ago, HauptmannUK said:

If you are content to hold onto a property long-term if/until prices rise then fair enough. I am not particularly interested in whether the seller is 'content' with the price or not. I want to buy at the real market price, I am not trying to make a new best friend. The glut of unsold properties indicates to me that, in general, prices must be too high for the prevailing market demand. There is one studio apartment in VT1 that has been on the market for TWO YEARS . I know of at least four big condo projects that are due for completion in the next six months, so the situation won't be changing anytime soon.

Any property that does not sell in 6 months is overpriced for the market. 

[HauptmannUK]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

Your problem appears to be that you consider VT1 & 2 to be good buildings.

I have no 'problem', I am here to garner advice. Can you offer a couple examples of 'good' condos that I should consider, if you feel the VT's are not particularly desirable?

[Peterw42]

I am sitting in my condo in Jomtien, purchased, for 1.2m, 3-4 months ago, the condo next door is currently on the market for 1.9m. Identical, cookie cutter condos. 

I have spoken to the owner next door about her expectations, and like so many sellers, she is convinced that she is "on the money" as she payed 1.6m. She gets very put out at the suggestion she may have to take a loss if she wants to sell.

 

The whole market is at a stalemate, buyers have a ceiling, based on an visible oversupply. Sellers have an unrealistic view of what there property is actually worth. The two seldom meet. When they do meet, the sellers say it was a bargain and the buyers say someone payed to much.

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Peterw42

[Rc2702]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

Dont listen to all the doom and gloom merchant about how agents put massive amounts on the price to get more money , its bull--it , they want to sell and get their commision , if a property is vastly overpriced it will never sell , many people who own condos will not cut the price ,if it is right , if they vastly overprice it ,they also will not sell , yes there is a vast oversupply of "some" condo blocks ,but the good ones that everyone wants sell as soon as they hit the market , the wife has been selling for many many years ,if its vastly overpriced , she just does'nt bother to offer it .

most agents here who have been around for years are good and honest , that's why they are still in business , the idiots and crooks don't last .

What commission do the honest ones charge please?

[Henryford]

11 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

What commission do the honest ones charge please?

 

Which are the honest ones?

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

Dont listen to all the doom and gloom merchant about how agents put massive amounts on the price to get more money , its bull--it , they want to sell and get their commision , if a property is vastly overpriced it will never sell , many people who own condos will not cut the price ,if it is right , if they vastly overprice it ,they also will not sell , yes there is a vast oversupply of "some" condo blocks ,but the good ones that everyone wants sell as soon as they hit the market , the wife has been selling for many many years ,if its vastly overpriced , she just does'nt bother to offer it .

most agents here who have been around for years are good and honest , that's why they are still in business , the idiots and crooks don't last .

 

In my experience, its not the agents at all, its the sellers. Many agents will agree that the price is unrealistic and they have no chance of selling it. Some agents wont even show the stupidly priced condos, as they know they have little to no chance of selling them. 

[i claudius]

What commission do the honest ones charge please?

Usually 5% on average although it can vary

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[markeewan]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Here is what you need to do.

You narrow your search down to a couple of building that you like, then write a short but price letter, along the lines, "Dear owner, Please contact me if your are interested in selling your condo. Fair price offered for the right unit, cash payment."

Your include your E-mail, LINE id, phone number.

Print 100+ letters and drop them in ever single mailbox.

 

All you have do do now is sit back and wait.....and wait....and wait, but sooner or later somebody will contact you.

 

This way you will not only bypass often useless agents, but you might also reach out to somebody who have long moved away and simply given up on his unit and only use it for a couple of month ever winter.

 

NB: I did this myself in Bangkok and still got replies 6 months after they letters was sent.

 

Happy hunting.

 

Just wanted to add, you can still use agents in parallel to visit and get a feel for asking prices. That will give you the upper hand when you give different owners your cash offer.

That is a great idea, I am looking for a condo myself to rent out and already have a building in mind.

 

I have to say thought that I don't think the long terms returns from Thai rentals are that great compared to other options, but my wife will need income after I am gone and she is happy to manage tenants...

[kannot]

Wife works in real estate, bargains can be found but really you have to be prepared to do the work to find them, she sees  a few opportunities every year but  not  many.

Weve bought rooms at VERY  good  prices (1  million below) due to "desperate" owners but she's  in that position of being "in the trade" and having the cash readily available.

New buildings wont or  dont discount anything even when half  remain unsold from what I see.

[SaintLouisBlues]

Even when renting it's a good idea to look at established condos in the same area as new ones coming onto the market. I've seen established condos in Bangkok with up to 50% more floor area for the same rent as a newer condo building right next door. Some owners do have a sense of realism about what rents they can get vs. what they would like


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[bow]

I looked into this 4 - 5 years ago. Back then the difference  between asking price and what co-ops "condos" actually soled for here in Pattaya was much bigger what I am used  to from my little country in North-West Europe.

 

I was quite angry with a real estate person that tried to sell several co-ops in the same building for 990.000 when several similar co-ops there had recently sold for 400.000 - 500.000.

 

It is one thing to be a smart businessman and another to be close to a con-man taking advantage of unsuspecting foreigners.

 

 

[Peterw42]

21 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

Usually 5% on average although it can vary

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How that commission is split up can be very creative, The agents pays the sub-agent, who pays the condo manager, who pays the security guard, who pays the motorcyc taxi driver who brought the customer to the block.

My wife works part time in the coffeeshop in our condo block, she came in beaming the other day with her 1,000 baht commission for being part of the sale chain.

 

[Asiantravel]

1 hour ago, HauptmannUK said:

The nub of the matter is what is a 'fair price'. Buyer and seller might differ on this. When I see condos in 'good' buildings (e.g. VT1, 2) unsold after more than a year then I conclude that the asking price is not 'fair'.

Its not a question of being a 'Cheap Charlie', its not being a mug and paying over the market price. The market price would be one that achieves a sale within a reasonable time frame.

 

 

“It is always easier to regain a lost opportunity than trying to regain lost capital.” 

[Cook my sock]

Be careful of that weird 'tax' the seller is supposed to pay - but which often gets passed along to the buyer.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

Usually 5% on average although it can vary

 

 

Thais would consider 3% to be normal though I think that much is way over the top. 5% is just plain silly for the tiny amount of work (and zero responsibility) that agents provide here.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

 

How that commission is split up can be very creative, The agents pays the sub-agent, who pays the condo manager, who pays the security guard, who pays the motorcyc taxi driver who brought the customer to the block.

My wife works part time in the coffeeshop in our condo block, she came in beaming the other day with her 1,000 baht commission for being part of the sale chain.

 

its  more like 3% and thats it  TOTAL and how  its split  is included in that though some agents  will literally inflate the asking price ie owner wants 2  million, agent advertises for 2.5  million sells  at 2.4  pockets  400k + 3%  commission of  the  2  million

[kannot]

26 minutes ago, Cook my sock said:

Be careful of that weird 'tax' the seller is supposed to pay - but which often gets passed along to the buyer.

its usually split between buyer/seller 50%50% though it shouldnt be it is

[zd1]

5 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I was offered 1MB for a condo I am selling for 1.5....I told him to bugger off (phrased it more nicely than that) I would rather burn it down (or at least wait for the market to pick up again). I myself have a little bit of decency and diginity and will always offer a fair price for a fair property. I have been buying and selling most of my life and have always closed a deal where both the buyer and seller are contented with the result. This principle has always stood me well. Any old fool can try to take advantage of people but honor to me is more importand than money and "sticking" it to a person.

 

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

 

Agreed. Anything i sell is in good condition and at a fair price. I am insulted by these cheap charlie jokers who waste my time time then offer silly figures.  If they are that hard up they can rent in Nirun.

Unfortunately for you 2 your properties may now be worth less than what you have paid for them, if you have time and want to hold out for your asking price that is fine but if your property is over priced be prepared to wait a long time. If there is now an over supply there will be less demand which will in turn lower the prices its basic economics, just take what happened to the property market in Spain as an example.

You say you have more decency and dignity and will always pay a fair price but you need to understand what a fair price may be now is considerable less than when you yourself bought.

I wouldn't call potential buyers cheap Charlie jokers they probably have a good idea of what the market value is and maybe make a cheeky offer if they sense someone is desperate to sell, i'm afraid it is the way it works.

As for waiting for the market to go up again I think you maybe in for a long wait especially if there are more condo blocks going up the competition will go up and the prices will come down, there are also other factors to be taken into account both politically and economically which could swing the property market one way or the other, like any other investment there are risks involved.

[Cook my sock]

I took a year to buy. Did my research on the area and chose an older but well managed condo building

[newnative]

14 hours ago, tazly said:

any of the View Talays.....

No, not ANY of the View Talays.  Probably just 1 and 2 at that price.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, kannot said:

its  more like 3% and thats it  TOTAL and how  its split  is included in that though some agents  will literally inflate the asking price ie owner wants 2  million, agent advertises for 2.5  million sells  at 2.4  pockets  400k + 3%  commission of  the  2  million

 

The owner and buyer both sign a sales contract (sales price) and goes to the land office to complete the sale so I think he may get wise to the 400k price rise. And the money gets payed to the seller not to the agent, so I cant really see how the agent is getting hold of the 400k. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Peterw42

[i claudius]

 

How that commission is split up can be very creative, The agents pays the sub-agent, who pays the condo manager, who pays the security guard, who pays the motorcyc taxi driver who brought the customer to the block.

My wife works part time in the coffeeshop in our condo block, she came in beaming the other day with her 1,000 baht commission for being part of the sale chain.

 

My wife's company will Only deal with other accredited agents ,no freelancers,guards or coffee shop ladies,they will give a commission to some juristic personnel,if they know them and they "recommend" a condo for sale not on their books

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[i claudius]

As I have said many times ,there is an oversupply,but and its a big but some condo blocks are highly sought after and sell straight away,believe me or not,up to you

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[kannot]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

The owner and buyer both sign a sales contract (sales price) and goes to the land office to complete the sale so I think he may get wise to the 400k price rise. And the money gets payed to the seller not to the agent, so I cant really see how the agent is getting hold of the 400k. 

Do you work in the  business?.

Wife often gets power of attorney form some buyers to deal with "everything"

This  happens quite  a  lot, with  less desirable agents, the owners  know this (Thai)  but dont care as  long as they get what they asked for ie 2  million often they even say "put  on what you  like"

One customer of my Wife's buys for his  Brother in Taiwan and he even screws his own Brother saying its 2.5  million when really its  2  million then tells  my Wife not to say anything to him if she sees  him.Brotherly love eh, some pretty bizzarre  things go on usually thru greed

[i claudius]

 
The owner and buyer both sign a sales contract (sales price) and goes to the land office to complete the sale so I think he may get wise to the 400k price rise. And the money gets payed to the seller not to the agent, so I cant really see how the agent is getting hold of the 400k. 

Your dead right,to many people do not know how things work and just make it up ,no one likes estate agents, everyone thinks they do nothing for their money.
The answer do it all yourself and stop complaining

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[newnative]

Before you buy, I would do some thinking about how you will be spending your time on your weekends here in Pattaya and then select the area that works best. If weekends are for movies and shopping the malls, you might want to be in Pattaya itself rather than south Jomtien or Na Jomtien.   At your price point there is a lot of selection but not a lot of what I would call quality selection.  I would avoid the 'theme park' developments and look for something on the baht bus line so you don't always have to drive while you are here.  A condo with a seaview is always a plus at the beach.  For weekends, you can certainly get by with around 30sqm give or take.  This was brought home to me as I have just returned with my partner from 5 days in Hong Kong staying in a small hotel room of much less than 30sqm.  We would have LOVED 30sqm!  And, as I have said before, most of the new condos have lots of amenities to enjoy.  The nice thing about your price point is that it's not a huge amount of money and if you buy wisely it's likely to at least hold its value.  View Talay 2 is a good example of an older condo that is maintaining its value--maybe not going up much but not going down, either.  And, condo maintenance fees are so reasonable it's a breeze to have a weekend place with minimal expense. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I am sitting in my condo in Jomtien, purchased, for 1.2m, 3-4 months ago, the condo next door is currently on the market for 1.9m. Identical, cookie cutter condos. 

I have spoken to the owner next door about her expectations, and like so many sellers, she is convinced that she is "on the money" as she payed 1.6m. She gets very put out at the suggestion she may have to take a loss if she wants to sell.

 

The whole market is at a stalemate, buyers have a ceiling, based on an visible oversupply. Sellers have an unrealistic view of what there property is actually worth. The two seldom meet. When they do meet, the sellers say it was a bargain and the buyers say someone payed to much.

 

 

I would argue that the lady with the 1.9 million baht condo is not really selling, she is just sharing what the condo it worth in her head.

 

This is one of the consequences that advertising and listing condos with agents is FREE. 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

The owner and buyer both sign a sales contract (sales price) and goes to the land office to complete the sale so I think he may get wise to the 400k price rise. And the money gets payed to the seller not to the agent, so I cant really see how the agent is getting hold of the 400k. 

 

No, vendors and buyers dont always go to the LO. Agents often replace the vendor with power of attorney. And the price used for calculations is often the LO estimated price which can be less than the price paid.

 

So the agent certainly can pocket the difference.

 

It's unwise to trust anyone here, regardless of nationality.