Today I was awaiting answers to my two questions and was eagerly looking forward to asking our Dear Thai Immigration friend many more questions! So...

Thaimee.

thaimee

Posted April 30, 2004

latest news: ''We are sorry! Due to Technical problems the Web Board is temporarily closed. We should be back in a few days''

Thaimee.

dutch

Posted April 30, 2004

Thaiimmigration.com is still online. Only the boardlink is temporarely closed.

So what's the story with thaiimmigration.com? Why should superintendent Pol.Col.Sorrapol Payoongveeranoi from Nong Khai immigration register a dot com domain with a Danish registrar (jth.net) and not use the official police.go.th site?

Sunbelt Asia

Posted April 30, 2004

Interesting...

Hope they get the forum back up. It's needed.

dr_Pat_Pong

Posted May 1, 2004

Interesting...
Hope they get the forum back up. It's needed.

I second that.

george

Posted May 2, 2004

Friendly Advice Or An Elaborate Hoax?

Stickman Weekly elaborates regarding thaimmigration.com:

Thailand message boards and discussion forums have been in a frenzy this week as panic has set in amongst a number of the farang population of Thailand. Attention was drawn to a relatively new website, Thaiimmigration.com, which appeared to be a new website set up by Thai Immigration for the purpose of providing information to foreigners to make their stay here easier.

There was a discussion forum on the site and people were invited to send in questions which would be answered by the Thai immigration authorities in the forum. One question in particular caught many people's attention. It was sent by a gentleman who said he'd been making visa runs for a long time and he asked about legality of all of this.

He was given a lengthy reply which said that while visa runs per se are not illegal, living in Thailand on tourist visa after tourist visa was questionable. The response went on to say that anyone making continuous visa run after visa run would likely be questioned at the entry point in Thailand as to what they were doing in Thailand and how they were financing their stay.

If they were able to prove that they were bringing in funds from abroad, 30 - 40K baht per month the mentioned figure, then they would be allowed to enter. However, if they could not prove that funds were being brought in from abroad, it would be assumed that they did not have the means to support themselves or that they were working locally without a work permit, therefore illegally, and would thus be given a non extendable 5 - 10 day visa which would allow them time to tidy up their affairs before exiting the country. Furthermore, they would have to wait 6 months before entering the Kingdom again. Crackdown On "back-to-back" Tourist Visas

The responses to various questions asked in the discussion forum were thorough. The person responding was polite, friendly and informative. It seemed that every effort was made to be helpful. But there were a few things that didn't quite add up, a few things that made me think that something wasn't quite right here. First of all there were the technical issues:

- It was a ".com" address. While such a web address is plausible, one would have expected a bona fide Thai government web address i.e. one that ended .go.th.

- The whole look and feel of the site was very much "farang style" and I couldn't help but feel the site was made by a farang, and not a Thai web designer. There is absolutely no reason to get a farang to design a website hosted in Thailand as there are many excellent Thai web designers.

- The site had a message board on it. What government department would put a message on their website? There was a Thai message board but that seemed to attract little traffic. While this is a useful mechanism to help anyone who has any questions to ask, it is quite unusual.

- The website was registered with what appears to be a German domain name provider. Now why would the Thai government register one of their websites with a German firm? And it would seem the site is hosted by a Danish company, whose website is all in Danish.

- Nongkhai Immigration, who this site appears to have some affiliation with, already have their own website at Nongkhaiimmigration.com.

And then there were the language factors:

- The English used on the website was just too colloquial to be that of a Thai. The person on the discussion forum had a chatty style that even a Thai national educated abroad with flawless English would not likely pick up. The writing smacked of being from a foreigner BUT his written English wasn't perfect which probably helped because...

- What I bet threw a lot of people was that the guy's English had the odd mistake and this may have been mis-interpreted as evidence that the writer was a well educated Thai - but whose English while excellent, was not quite perfect. However, any English teacher with experience in Thailand would know that the mistakes made by the writer were not mistakes typical of a Thai learner of English, or even a Thai national who had studied English to a high level.

- But perhaps the biggest issue of all was that the person was able to talk at length about the English teaching industry and certain factors within it. What's more, it seemed that they had a few issues with it. While I am sure that there are some officials within the Thai Immigration Department who have a good knowledge of the teaching industry, I doubt any of them have an axe to grind, as this person seemed to.

With all of these factors in mind, I reached the conclusion that all was not what it seemed, and that something funny was going on.

At times I get fed up with some of the nonsense that goes on in the online world. While the internet really has revolutionized our lives like they said it would (and will continue to do so), there is something about the non personal communication of it all that provides people with a perceived anonymity. This notion of anonymity and therefore impunity prompts some people to do some odd things online.

I maintain that the internet is horribly insecure and the anonymity that some people think they have when they do certain things online is non-existent. Unless you really know what you're doing, almost everything you do online leaves a trail. From internet service providers to system logs to the machine that you accessed the net from, a trail of evidence is left.

Some people believe that hiding behind an anonymous website or email address preserves their anonymity. Don't ever make this mistake! Unless you are something of an internet genius, internet security is about as good as Maxwell Smart's cone of silence. In fact Maxwell Smart's device was probably more effective than the internet security that most of us have.

So, just who is behind the site? A farang masquerading as a Thai government official? Or is it a bona fide Thai government site? Or perhaps someone else?

When responding to various questions on the discussion forum, the person answering used the words "we" and "our" which would make one think that he (or she?) was either an official of the Thai Immigration Service or acting on their behalf. Could it be a ploy by Thai Immigration to infiltrate Farangdom, sort of like how the casinos went after card counters by hiring them to actually teach and inform them what was going on. Is this what the Thai Immigration is doing? As unlikely as it sounds, it is possible. Or perhaps it is something much more simple and innocent such as a farang who has friends or family within the Thai Immigration Department and has erected this website to help out.

In fairness to whoever made the site, they did a very good job with the immigration laws posted clearly in English. And in terms of answering questions, they did an excellent job, applying both the law and common sense to the questions asked and replying politely, courteously and indeed, thoroughly. He even informed of certain new procedures to be implemented, and gave people ample notice and warning to get their affairs in order.

What he wrote online was taken very seriously by many people and I received a number of emails from readers about this issue, particularly people who have been coming and going on tourist visas for a long time. These people were very upset at the idea that they might be asked to leave. Having said that, anyone living in Thailand perpetually on tourist visas has to be kidding themselves if they think that they can do that forever.

Is this website the work of a farang? If it is a farang, the big question for many is who is behind the it all? Clues point to it being someone currently teaching in Thailand, not a native speaker, and not based in the capital.

If it is Thai Immigration who have made this website themselves, then they have done an excellent job creating a user friendly website that offers excellent advice, unlike many government websites (from any country). Whatever the case, some of what was discussed on the message board serves as a timely reminder to all foreigners in Thailand to make sure that they have a work permit and that their visa is in order.

-----

Following on from the opening piece of today's column, it seems that even prior to the recent discussions about visas that more than a few folks are taking the work permit / visa thing seriously. Two friends have told me privately that they are packing in their part-time work because it doesn't come with a work permit. They feel that the price to pay for working illegally is just too high. And they do have every reason to be concerned because a workmate told me this week of how his apartment building, located in what can best be described as one of the city's outer suburbs, was visited by the local branch of the boys in brown. Do you have any Blacks, Arabs or Farangs living here, the security guard was asked? The police then went and asked to see the visas of the said folks. I wonder what ever happened to the Chinese and other foreign nationals in the building?

I was really surprised when I heard an ad on the radio from the Immigration service, in English, stating very clearly that it was illegal to lodge your passport with an agent for the purpose of getting them to update your visa. Yes, this was an ad on the radio! I don't know if anyone even offers such services these days but given the furore over this type of thing in the second half of last year, I'd be surprised if anyone is doing it any more.

And just to show that there really is a visa crackdown of sorts, rumours have come in that some of the travel agents et al who arrange runs to the border and back same day for the purpose of updating customers' visas are having their vehicles stopped by Immigration officers and everyone has to show their passport. Beware if your visa has expired!

--Source: Stickman Weekly

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly/weekly156.html

george

Posted May 2, 2004

Here is the article that was published at thaiimmigration.com before it went off-line:

Thai Immigration get new computer system:

Crackdown On "back-to-back" Tourist Visas

Wash

Posted May 2, 2004

Friendly Advice Or An Elaborate Hoax?
Stickman Weekly elaborates regarding thaimmigration.com:

URL=http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9394]Crackdown On "back-to-back" Tourist Visas[/url][/b][/i]

- It was a ".com" address. While such a web address is plausible, one would have expected a bona fide Thai government web address i.e. one that ended .go.th.

- Nongkhai Immigration, who this site appears to have some affiliation with, already have their own website at Nongkhaiimmigration.com.

--Source: Stickman Weekly

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly/weekly156.html

I checked the site mentioned here at www.nongkhaiimmigration.com and find a Thai Language website with a clickable link for an english version. Guess what the English version is www.thaiimmigration.com!!!

I do not pretend to know what is going on behind the scenes with the web board but do find that the site is still operating just fine and I for one find the web board quite a comfort for all of the reasons that were enumerated in the quoted article.

Other Thai Immigration offices are also experimenting with web boards and I am happy to see that and what they can eventually evolve into. It looks to me like Thai Immigration Police are letting each office build their own ideas into websites and I suspect eventually they will settle on best of class or combine them into a single website.

I like the idea of getting the information directly from a site such as thaiimmigration.com rather than from much of the hersay postings of other boards where much distortion and personal exceptions are discussed.

So I say wait for the board to resolve its technical problems and get back on line again.

lopburi3

Posted May 3, 2004

If you check the Div 3 website at http://www.imm3.police.go.th/eng/ you will also find a forum using the same software/format but so far without any answers.

From my reading of Nong Khai website the writer was indeed foreign as he mentioned he did not carry his passport with him but it remained at his school; I believe in Udorn. He mentioned at times that he would have to wait for senior officials word to answer some questions.

Anything else would be a guess.

Axel

Posted May 3, 2004

Author

Posted May 3, 2004

Yes, I realized this site with questions but no replies. My first thought was, it must be for real with a PIC on an inactive post.

In any case the answers one could find in the Nong Khai - site have been reasonable and quite witty.

So in my mind, the site gives some answers, Thai Visa brings you a lot of personal experience by members. Combine both and you know what to do.

Crash999

Posted May 3, 2004

From my reading of Nong Khai website the writer was indeed foreign as he mentioned he did not carry his passport with him but it remained at his school; I believe in Udorn. He mentioned at times that he would have to wait for senior officials word to answer some questions.

I got the impression that a group of foreigners had volunteered to help out the Nong Khai immigration center... But it seems that only a few were actually helping and the rest slacked off- hence the post about the office in Khon Kaen not opening.

lopburi3

Posted May 3, 2004

I got the impression that a group of foreigners had volunteered to help out the Nong Khai immigration center... But it seems that only a few were actually helping and the rest slacked off- hence the post about the office in Khon Kaen not opening.

Believe that was a working group of expats in the NE region who thought they could provide office space for immigration in Khon Kaen to avoid trips to Nong Khai but never followed up so there was a loss of face involved as Nong Khai had already started approval process. Do not believe they had any involvement with the web site.

BKK-Bangkapi

Posted May 3, 2004

... and the thai language version of thaiimmigration.com forum is still active

http://th.thaiimmigration.com/phpBB2/

Last posts on Mar 25.

george

Posted May 9, 2004

Stickman kill the rumours:

ThaiImmigration.Com, The Truth

QUOTE:

The opening piece of last week's column concerned the ThaiImmigration.com website that at the time was causing a stir online. I wrote about the site, commended the people behind it for what they were trying to do and speculated as to the origins of the site.

I thought that the site may have been the work of some Westerners, perhaps in conjunction with the immigration authorities. ThaiImmigration.com have been in touch with me and I can now kill the rumours and present just the facts.

The first thing that needs to be said about this website is that it is absolutely genuine. It is an official website. One way to confirm that is to perform the following steps:

1. Go to www.imm3.police.go.th

2. Click English and go to immigration check-point on the main menu.

3. Click on the immigration check-point for Nongkhai website.

4. Click English and you're at the thaiimmigration.com website.

As these are official links, the website has to be legitimate.

Contrary to what I had said, it was not farang designed at all but designed by some Thai students who did a good job of making it farang friendly and easy to navigate.

In late 2003 several sub committees were set up by Nongkhai Immigration and one of the projects was to help Immigration with implementing IT and to establish a website in English. The site is managed by two Danish computer guys in association with 3 officers from the Nongkhai Immigration Office. It was set up as part of the Immigration Department's drive to become more open.

These two Danish gentlemen also helped with translation of responses to the discussion forum as they are more comfortable with written English than the Immigration officers. Questions from the message board would be passed on to Immigration officials who would answer them and the answers would then be translated back into English and posted on to the board. The message board is down as it became a lot of pressure for the guys who were providing the responses.

I speculated that the people behind the site might be English teachers to which I have been informed that the two guys involved do various volunteer work in Nongkhai for the provincial government maintaining computer systems and that includes work at schools, where they are in contact with a lot of foreign teachers, from whom they gather quite a lot of information.

The Thai Immigration authorities have really good intentions with this website and especially the concept of the message board. While it is something of a pilot, it would be a real shame if it doesn't continue. But given that these types of things can become very time consuming indeed, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. The Immigration Department's desire to become more open and willingness to help has to be admired. Long may it continue.

END QUOTE

--Stickmanbangkok.com 2004-05-09