Many constructions are left half finished since Russians left . very sad.

[Asiantravel]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

I am such an owner.

 

Owned 1 condo property which if I'd have rented I'd have spent more money than I paid for it. Sold it at a modest profit.

 

Current one much the same. Owning already saved me rent in the long term and I can get my money back when I sell in another 10 years time.

 

(yes I know about opportunity cost and what I could have done with the money other than buy)

 

I think the biggest obstacle to buyers is the lack of mortgage availability for Farangs here so purchases are effectively made in cash. So not many can afford to buy a decent place that's already completed, hence the glut of 1 million Baht small units sold off-plan.

 

" and I can get my money back when I sell in another 10 years time "

 

just looking at what is happening around the world now I wouldn't be betting on that. Just looking at employment patterns, totally stagnant wages etc I would be seriously worried who will be able to even afford a condominium in Pattaya in 10 years time or who will be remotely interested in renting one of these places?

Maybe you will have more grounds for optimism after the estimated 17,000 vacant condominiums being offered for salehave been mopped up.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Asiantravel

[pegman]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I didn't use TV back then its too negative for me. I was referring to people you meet in the real world, not one person was talking about not buying off plan. Personally i wouldn't buy off plan anyway, but the large majority of people who did didn't have a problem.

That is the inevitable downfall of rose coloured glasses.  Seeing you are on here now we can take it that you look at the good as well as the bad in researching major decision. 

[brling]

5 minutes ago, pegman said:

That is the inevitable downfall of rose coloured glasses.  Seeing you are on here now we can take it that you look at the good as well as the bad in researching major decision. 

No, only the "good", as the bad is too negative.

[scubascuba3]

No, only the "good", as the bad is too negative.

I was referring to the BMs

[pegman]

13 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I was referring to the BMs

In hindsight then, do you wish you would have researched what some of those negative board members had to say about buying off plan prior to your purchasers? Personally from what I have read on TV I have concluded buying off plan is way too risky for me. The issue I wrestle most now with is whether there is a a high degree of risk with buying by the Thai company route.

[JSixpack]

6 hours ago, pegman said:

Personally from what I have read on TV I have concluded buying off plan is way too risky for me.

 

Agreed. Too risky I think for the average person who will probably allocate a larger percentage of his total assets to the purchase (of a promise) than he can comfortably afford to lose in the worst case--and we certainly hear about the worst cases here: many are high profile. I'm glad it turned out well in many cases; I wouldn't be surprised if that's in fact most cases, to the consternation of TVF doomsters. Still, those who lost the gamble just seem awfully unhappy, go totally negative, and then come to whinge, demonize, and scaremonger here in the echo chamber. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by JSixpack

[scubascuba3]

In hindsight then, do you wish you would have researched what some of those negative board members had to say about buying off plan prior to your purchasers? Personally from what I have read on TV I have concluded buying off plan is way too risky for me. The issue I wrestle most now with is whether there is a a high degree of risk with buying by the Thai company route.

I tend to ignore the negative BM types, angry inside those guys. I thought everyone knew not to buy the thai company route.

[teddog]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I was referring to the BMs

 

BMs?    bowel movements?

[pegman]

36 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I tend to ignore the negative BM types, angry inside those guys. I thought everyone knew not to buy the thai company route.

Well appearently many have bought the Thai company route and none that I know of have been burnt. At least with houses and condos. Not sure how long this has been in practice. 

[Bastos60]

6 hours ago, pegman said:

Well appearently many have bought the Thai company route and none that I know of have been burnt. At least with houses and condos. Not sure how long this has been in practice. 

What is the Thai company route?

[Bastos60]

22 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

 

" and I can get my money back when I sell in another 10 years time "

 

just looking at what is happening around the world now I wouldn't be betting on that. Just looking at employment patterns, totally stagnant wages etc I would be seriously worried who will be able to even afford a condominium in Pattaya in 10 years time or who will be remotely interested in renting one of these places?

Maybe you will have more grounds for optimism after the estimated 17,000 vacant condominiums being offered for salehave been mopped up.

 

By that time, chinese will have bought out most of the property.

[scubascuba3]

BMs?    bowel movements?

You could call them that

[Asiantravel]

1 hour ago, Bastos60 said:

 

By that time, chinese will have bought out most of the property.

they can buy their own housing stock first (with 64 MILLION empty apartments available ) –

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/china-ghost-cities/5421229     

 

plus with a debt to GDP ratio that now stands at 283%, the China Ponzi will also implode well before the end of 10 years

Edited June 14, 2017 by Asiantravel

[pegman]

6 hours ago, Bastos60 said:

What is the Thai company route?

It seems a lawyer can set up a Thai company with your money that then buys a house, Thai quota condo or a property. Hopefully some members that know more can add their thoughts.   

[Rimmer]

Topic is about:

Many constructions are left half finished since Russians left

 

If you want to discuss ownership and setting up companies please do so in the real estate forum, thank you.

 

[JSixpack]

On 6/13/2017 at 4:59 PM, Asiantravel said:

it will be interesting to see what happens here once the overly generous and quite unrealistic rental guarantees that were offered by the developers as an inducement to buy start to expire

 

Nah, most probably quite boring, your assertion BTW being an example of the Complex Question fallacy. The term of the guarantee is agreed upon at purchase via contract. Condos are purchased at different times so the expirations of the guarantees will be staggered over years. The owners have 5 - 20 years to prepare. So all that will happen at expiration is that the owner will live in the condo, rent it out himself, or sell it. Now according to latest brilliant TVF Real Estate Rules Of Sale, the sale will have to occur according to FIFO, meaning all other available condos ahead in the queue at the time must be sold first. Presumably then the owner will have a queue number and will reside or rent out until his number is called.

 

It'll only be interesting if the guarantees aren't honored. AFAIK, there's no evidence yet that they won't be, evidence being documented cases in which they weren't here in Pattaya, not some link to an irrelevant report about Miami or Singapore real estate. 'Course, evidence don't count for a lot around here.   

Edited June 16, 2017 by JSixpack

[theguyfromanotherforum]

That is the inevitable downfall of rose coloured glasses.  Seeing you are on here now we can take it that you look at the good as well as the bad in researching major decision. 

I did apply my research skills by reading Thai forums 10 years before I moved to Thailand. Except I applied it towards women, not property. I have to say that guys who have been burned and posted about subjects like sinsod, bargirls, women half their age, etc, etc have really saved me a lot of money and grief.

I am not sure about Pattaya, but I think condos in Bangkok would have been a great investment since I moved in 4 years ago. Even today I think it's a decent investment long term....but at the same time it's the "long term" that bothers me.

[pegman]

9 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I did apply my research skills by reading Thai forums 10 years before I moved to Thailand. Except I applied it towards women, not property. I have to say that guys who have been burned and posted about subjects like sinsod, bargirls, women half their age, etc, etc have really saved me a lot of money and grief.

I am not sure about Pattaya, but I think condos in Bangkok would have been a great investment since I moved in 4 years ago. Even today I think it's a decent investment long term....but at the same time it's the "long term" that bothers me.

 

Yes the places near rapid transit stations are very sought after. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎13‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 0:00 AM, whatwasithinking said:

Just to add , if you like a fair degree of risk the last 18 months to even now could be a great short term investment . You buy a condo in a fire sale situation which is well below market & sell for a smallish profit of 100 to 150 000 baht . However i will never invest overseas again & certainly not Thailand

 

But you need to face the facts & simply looking on line at the condo resale market it is blatantly obvious there are far to many condos available for the interested buyers out there so please prove me wrong

Even The Base on Second Rd was pushing rentals before I left Pattaya. If a built condo development in such a prime area is finding it hard to attract buyers it says much about the state of the market.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

 

I did apply my research skills by reading Thai forums 10 years before I moved to Thailand. Except I applied it towards women, not property. I have to say that guys who have been burned and posted about subjects like sinsod, bargirls, women half their age, etc, etc have really saved me a lot of money and grief.

I am not sure about Pattaya, but I think condos in Bangkok would have been a great investment since I moved in 4 years ago. Even today I think it's a decent investment long term....but at the same time it's the "long term" that bothers me.

 

Happy to have been of assistance then.

Unfortunately, even I got caught in the long con, though I did everything possible to try to make sure I got a "genuine" lady.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎15‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 1:34 AM, pegman said:

It seems a lawyer can set up a Thai company with your money that then buys a house, Thai quota condo or a property. Hopefully some members that know more can add their thoughts.   

Trying to work around Thai law only works till the government cottons on and stops it. Some still trying to say they can get 30 year x 3 leases.

However that could change one way or the other. Nothing stays the same.

[janclaes47]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even The Base on Second Rd was pushing rentals before I left Pattaya. If a built condo development in such a prime area is finding it hard to attract buyers it says much about the state of the market.

 

Have you been inside The Base condos?

 

They carry a premium price, for a 1980's design. Kitchen still has the electric cookers with the round black plates. Plastic on the floor etc.

 

Looks like a council flat from the seventies at 130K/sqm

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Have you been inside The Base condos?

 

They carry a premium price, for a 1980's design. Kitchen still has the electric cookers with the round black plates. Plastic on the floor etc.

 

Looks like a council flat from the seventies at 130K/sqm

If I was going to buy a condo I'd buy there for the location, up high for the view and do the place up if I wasn't happy with the cooker etc. It's just a cooker though- are looks so important? The thing gets hot, surely?

No idea what a council flat from the 70s is like, but can't be worse than what I lived in in London in 2003 and that was brand new, and it cost me a fortune to rent it even in essential worker subsidized accommodation.

[Asiantravel]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Nah, most probably quite boring, your assertion BTW being an example of the Complex Question fallacy. The term of the guarantee is agreed upon at purchase via contract. Condos are purchased at different times so the expirations of the guarantees will be staggered over years. The owners have 5 - 20 years to prepare. So all that will happen at expiration is that the owner will live in the condo, rent it out himself, or sell it. Now according to latest brilliant TVF Real Estate Rules Of Sale, the sale will have to occur according to FIFO, meaning all other available condos ahead in the queue at the time must be sold first. Presumably then the owner will have a queue number and will reside or rent out until his number is called.

 

It'll only be interesting if the guarantees aren't honored. AFAIK, there's no evidence yet that they won't be, evidence being documented cases in which they weren't here in Pattaya, not some link to an irrelevant report about Miami or Singapore real estate. 'Course, evidence don't count for a lot around here.   

5 to 20 years? New Nordic claim they were the first to offer rental guarantees in Pattaya starting around 10 years ago

there is no evidence either that the owners  will live in the condo, rent it out himself, or ( TRY TO ) sell it.

who are  renters  going to be?

[JSixpack]

 

1 hour ago, Asiantravel said:

5 to 20 years? New Nordic claim they were the first to offer rental guarantees in Pattaya starting around 10 years ago

 

And so you should have some concrete evidence by now (but you don't have any then, meaning the ol' hot air) that New Nordic has defaulted on some rental guarantees, right? Or is this going be another open-ended "broken clock" prediction (love those; so cool 'cause we can wait until we're dead already) in that it comes true sometime in the next 40 years when a default occurs on a 20-year guarantee made after today's 20-year guarantee has expired? I think New Nordic currently offers contracts w/ 5 - 20 year guarantees. You may correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Quote

there is no evidence either that the owners  will live in the condo, rent it out himself, or ( TRY TO ) sell it.

 

Or leave it vacant obviously, perhaps for occasional use. Never been uncommon, and for various reasons. We have condos in my building owners choose to leave vacant but could be rented out as we always have interest. Otherwise, that about sums up all the usual choices, unless you can think of others. Most any condo can be sold at the right price. Obviously if you check any owned condo, you'll see that the owner is living in it, renting it out, selling it, or leaving it vacant. So given the large number of owned condos in Pattaya, not to mention mere common sense, that constitutes plenty of evidence. Me, I have all those choices but choose to live in mine. Good 'nuff?

 

Hence the scenario w/ the end of rental guarantee looks just the same as when one buys a condo without the guarantee and is just as "interesting."

 

Quote

who are  renters  going to be?

 

Well, according to the latest brilliant TVF Real Estate Rules Of Renting Out (as extrapolated from the new Rules Of Sale), the renting will have to occur according to FIFO, meaning all other condos available in Pattaya ahead in the queue at the time must be rented first. Presumably then the owner will have a queue number and then rent it to the next renter available. The new brilliance also requires that all the condos in a potential buyers/renters home country first be sold or rented, too, as in China specifically but logically the UK, Japan, Russia, etc. as well. Hence we just don't know which country will reach full capacity first, now do we?

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by JSixpack

[janclaes47]

7 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

And so you should have some concrete evidence by now (but you don't have any then, meaning the ol' hot air) that New Nordic has defaulted on some rental guarantees, right? Or is this going be another open-ended "broken clock" prediction (love those; so cool 'cause we can wait until we're dead already) in that it comes true sometime in the next 40 years when a default occurs on a 20-year guarantee made after today's 20-year guarantee has expired? I think New Nordic currently offers contracts w/ 5 - 20 year guarantees. You may correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Bernard Madoff paid high yielded returns to his clients for more than 15 years...................without making a single transaction in all those years.

[JamJar]

Puts me in mind of a book that I read recently; Sviket I hjelmeland. 

[KittenKong]

16 hours ago, JSixpack said:

And so you should have some concrete evidence by now (but you don't have any then, meaning the ol' hot air) that New Nordic has defaulted on some rental guarantees, right? Or is this going be another open-ended "broken clock" prediction (love those; so cool 'cause we can wait until we're dead already) in that it comes true sometime in the next 40 years when a default occurs on a 20-year guarantee made after today's 20-year guarantee has expired? I think New Nordic currently offers contracts w/ 5 - 20 year guarantees.

 

I think they do too. However if the numbers are true I fail to see how they can possibly be sustainable unless they are being financed from some source other than normal rental income.

 

I suspect Ponzi mathematics.

[JSixpack]

19 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Bernard Madoff paid high yielded returns to his clients for more than 15 years...................without making a single transaction in all those years.

 

Just In Case Fallacy

 

TVF Poster Economics precludes investments in share markets, BTW. The  reason is this: Enron!  Thai banks? Unsafe. Keep your cash in a bank abroad (but alas! there was the Bank of Credit and Commerce International! All in all, under a mattress is probably safest, eh. No need to whinge about ATM fees that way too.

 

Many of our posters, now, do exist in a perpetual state of bewilderment as to how businesses can make money here in LOS. Problem is, even if the books were opened, so that we don't pontificate from "feeling," most would lack sufficient knowledge of accounting to understand them and then claim the figures are falsfied (we're very shrewd here). One of our most authoritative experts studied economics in nursing school. Hence we're often forced to resort to classic TVF Colorectal Theory to explain how the shops in Central, or the Indian restos across from Central, stay open: money laundering! Or, in this case, a Ponzi scheme.

 

Maybe (note: I did say maybe), or maybe not; as I noted, there's no evidence one way or the other. Possibly if the books were opened you might find very low costs of construction, a tax break, an inflated selling price so that buyers are largely getting a return of capital (quite legit; many a bond fund does the same), and reasonable projections. The latter is the rub for our ace economists (renters all, it seems) as for at least a decade or more they've been crying out prophecies of the great CONDO CRASH and won't admit that anybody's buying any condos. The latest: in only 10 years, there will be no one to rent any condos! The long-prophesied Apocalypse is nigh. RUN!

 

Gotta love TVF doomsayin'. I think perhaps our doomsayers have become frustrated at crying out in the wilderness all these years in vain, being laughed at, and have decided to engineer the CRASH themselves by imposing new rules on condo sales and rentals: that you can't sell a condo until all other other unsold condos (17,000? Who knows?) are sold first. Or, presumably, rented out first in the case of rental. Moreover, in the case of a foreigner, all the condos in his home country have to be sold/rented first. That way, we can make pretty sure of the CRASH and, most importantly, that LongTimeLurker will definitely NOT be able to get his money back in 10 years as he dared assert. What an abhorrent thought that was, as we continue our rental payments . . . probably caused an immediate case of soiled knickers.

Edited June 17, 2017 by JSixpack

[JamJar]

4 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

WOW, what a rant to just deny a simple fact I stated.

 

You should get out more, as you must be bored to the teeth, or at least that's what you make others with your apologism loaded drivel.

 

 

 

Helps if you can read Norwegian. Then one can more easily do their due diligence. 

An example: https://www.h-avis.no/haugesund/naringsliv/nyheter/taper-en-halv-million/s/2-2.921-1.5671794