Police rush to London Bridge after reports of van hitting pedestrians

[Rigby40]

Very fake news outlet CNN just caught red-handed AGAIN, staging a story on the subject:

*skip to 2:20 if you'd like

 

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Very fake news outlet CNN just caught red-handed AGAIN, staging a story on the subject:

*skip to 2:20 if you'd like

 

nonsense.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-rebuts-claim-they-set-up-a-pro-muslim-shot-during-london-aftermath/

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

nonsense.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-rebuts-claim-they-set-up-a-pro-muslim-shot-during-london-aftermath/

Whether true or not it is totally immaterial, the facts are that Muslims are killing us, lets stick to the facts eh!

[Rigby40]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

nonsense.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-rebuts-claim-they-set-up-a-pro-muslim-shot-during-london-aftermath/

Fake news CNN has been exposed countless times already. You expect us to believe their flimsy excuses this late in the game?

5555555555

 

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Fake news CNN has been exposed countless times already.

 

But not this time.

[baboon]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

The Liberal left hates western civilization just as much as the hardcore Muslims.

In the end though, there can be only one, and the Liberals will find tea lights and positive affirmations are a very ineffective defense.

What isn't to hate about the redneck right's dystopian vision of the future?

In the end, though, there can be only one, and the loony nutcase righties will find Tea Parties and negative broadbrushing of those who stand in their way are a very ineffective defence.

Edited June 5, 2017 by baboon

[Rigby40]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

But not this time.

Yes, this time as well.

[roo860]

Anjem Choudary (jailed in uk for supporting ISIS) is due out of jail in just over 12 months I think, now if there was a case for locking up and throwing the key away, he's a perfect example!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

The Liberal left hates western civilization just as much as the hardcore Muslims.

In the end though, there can be only one, and the Liberals will find tea lights and positive affirmations are a very ineffective defense.

If your views were representative of Western Civilization, you might have a point. Let most of us be grateful they're not.

Edited June 5, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[vogie]

33 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

If your views were the embodiment of Western Civilization, you might have a point. Let most of us be grateful they're not.

Who are "most of us," more people agree with him than you!

Edited June 5, 2017 by vogie

[balo]

39 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Fake news CNN has been exposed countless times already. You expect us to believe their flimsy excuses this late in the game?

5555555555

Nonsense, there's only one fake news channel and that's Fox. 

[balo]

The terrorists were British born, just like the idiot in Manchester.

 

So the problem was created more than 20 years ago , too late now. 

 

[Rigby40]

6 minutes ago, balo said:

Nonsense, there's only one fake news channel and that's Fox. 

It's ALL fake news. Fox, CNN, MSNBC etc.

CNN just happens to be at the forefront of churning out fake news.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Rigby40

[JetsetBkk]

48 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Fake news CNN has been exposed countless times already. You expect us to believe their flimsy excuses this late in the game?

5555555555

 

Can you move to the right please? No! That way. Thank you.

Lights, action, camera...

 

 

 

Made up protest group, so obvious. Unbelievable that some - e.g. CNN - say that this is normal, let alone acceptable.

 

[Watchful]

On 6/5/2017 at 10:41 AM, geriatrickid said:

You are mistaken if you believe that  the semi automatic carbines used by police forces around the  world, including the  Met, means that the police are "outgunned". The reason civilian security agencies are provided with  semi automatic weapons is to reduce the potential for innocent bystanders  getting shot. There is no need for a police officer to carry a rapid fire "automatic" . Close quarter arms use requires accuracy, discipline and restraint.  Automatic weapons spray their bullets and this does not lend itself to accuracy in close quarter civilian engagements. The carbines deployed in the UK are powerful. The Glock sidearms are powerful and are the preferred sidearm of police forces throughout the world. If more powerful arms are needed, the special units are  readily available. Keep in mind that the killers were neutralized within 8 minutes which is impressive. Other terror attacks  have gone on for 30 minutes+ before the police could deploy and  stop the terrorists. It was a pretty good response.

I guess we're going to agree to disagree. I own a mid-power semi (uses the AK-47 ammo) and my rifle is surprisingly accurate.

 

Nevertheless, when I was in the military we were issued M-16's and if I were in a fire fight in close quarters, I'd much rather have the M-16.  Now, bear in mind most fully automatics have the option to operate in either mode (usually a switch). 

 

As far as I'm concerned full automatic is useless when you engage an enemy at a distance. The darn things just "jump" too much and even a small movement causes your round to be way off target. Where fully automatic makes sense is in close quarters, where even with the "jumping", your round can still hit the target.

 

I do understand your concern for bystanders, but remember the police have the option to switch back to semi. I believe police should be able to engage enemy combatants on a parity level, and these terrorists often attack as a team. Sometimes they are well trained and sometimes with little understanding of tactics or their weapons. So it's a mixed bag. 

 

Nevertheless, I prefer that our police, who are trained, have weapons equal to the terrorists. 

 

[Ruffian Dick]

On 6/3/2017 at 3:41 PM, Somtamnication said:

Oh no, not again.  Stabbings and a van running over people.  What is this world turning in to?

No offense intended, but that sounds like an average weekend in an average city in the US of A.

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Watchful said:

I guess we're going to agree to disagree. I own a mid-power semi (uses the AK-47 ammo) and my rifle is surprisingly accurate.

 

Nevertheless, when I was in the military we were issued M-16's and if I were in a fire fight in close quarters, I'd much rather have the M-16.  Now, bear in mind most fully automatics have the option to operate in either mode (usually a switch). 

 

As far as I'm concerned full automatic is useless when you engage an enemy at a distance. The darn things just "jump" too much and even a small movement causes your round to be way off target. Where fully automatic makes sense is in close quarters, where even with the "jumping", your round can still hit the target.

 

I do understand your concern for bystanders, but remember the police have the option to switch back to semi. I believe police should be able to engage enemy combatants on a parity level, and these terrorists often attack as a team. Sometimes they are well trained and sometimes with little understanding of tactics or their weapons. So it's a mixed bag. 

 

Nevertheless, I prefer that our police, who are trained, have weapons equal to the terrorists. 

 

I found your post very interesting and informative, but the police were not just the only forces there, apparently the SAS helicopter was scrambled, I wonder how many of those guys were near the fire fight?

[Watchful]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Blame your lords and masters that brought in Pakistanis to work in British industry post war, and didn't insist on them returning to Pakistan when they retired or the jobs ended. IMO never fully accepted by the British their children grew up neither British nor Pakistani. No wonder they turned to the surety and acceptance of Islam.

Saudi has it right. Workers come for the duration of their job and go back home when their contract is up.

 

Now of course it's just PC stupidity that allows it to continue.

You make some excellent Points!

 

Just for clarification we in the US brought in Chinese workers to build our railroads. I am not aware of bringing people in from Pakistan. Anyhow these Chinese did not go home, but they tend to assimilate fairly well. In fact, Chinese parents push their kids to excel in education; so much so that the liberals now reverse discriminate against them. (And this is absolutely crazy!) 

[Watchful]

10 hours ago, Senior Player said:

Though I agree with your observations on Muslims, I cannot see the point the commentator was making with regards to Muslims observing Christian ceremonies. It's not as if Christians are blowing up children at concerts, running pedestrians over and attacking passersby with long knives and need to be monitored. Who cares now whether a Muslim supports the idea of being observed by our police (which isn't a religion anyway) in their own mosques? What I was alluding to in my comment was that the U.K. is far too accommodating towards their religion, more so than one would find in their own Islamic countries towards Christians where the Bible is banned outright. 

SP, you have made some truly excellent observations here!

 

Like you, I believe we must begin observing what's going on in these Mosques.

 

The poster objected and asked how I'd feel about the Muslims watching our religious services. My response was: they are most welcome. We don't turn anyone away! 

 

Further, the Muslims would never allow their members to attend Christian services in fear of their people converting away from this despicable religion.  Indeed, they activity promote the killing of any converts.

[DaveE13]

2 hours ago, roo860 said:

Anjem Choudary (jailed in uk for supporting ISIS) is due out of jail in just over 12 months I think, now if there was a case for locking up and throwing the key away, he's a perfect example!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

According to reports one of the terrorist was his follower in Barking. 

I'm local to this area born and bred east London. Don't recognise this Area at all most mates and families I grew up with have moved out years ago

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, Watchful said:

I guess we're going to agree to disagree. I own a mid-power semi (uses the AK-47 ammo) and my rifle is surprisingly accurate.

 

Nevertheless, when I was in the military we were issued M-16's and if I were in a fire fight in close quarters, I'd much rather have the M-16.  Now, bear in mind most fully automatics have the option to operate in either mode (usually a switch). 

 

As far as I'm concerned full automatic is useless when you engage an enemy at a distance. The darn things just "jump" too much and even a small movement causes your round to be way off target. Where fully automatic makes sense is in close quarters, where even with the "jumping", your round can still hit the target.

 

I do understand your concern for bystanders, but remember the police have the option to switch back to semi. I believe police should be able to engage enemy combatants on a parity level, and these terrorists often attack as a team. Sometimes they are well trained and sometimes with little understanding of tactics or their weapons. So it's a mixed bag. 

 

Nevertheless, I prefer that our police, who are trained, have weapons equal to the terrorists. 

 

A few things. Not disagreeing with all of your post and I agree with your stance.

 

There is no such thing as AK47 ammunition. The AK47 uses 7.62mm  x 39mm 122 grain sub sonic ammunition. This is also used in many other types of rifle and 7.62mm is a standard round used by both "Warsaw" and NATO pact countries. Anyone who served in the UK military in the 60s/70s and 80s will have been used to using 7.62 high velocity ammunition in a GPMG, LMG,  FM SLR  or 9mm in an SMG or Browning pistol. The SMG and browning pistols were a joke and the Indian ammunition (purple ring) used so weak, you could see the bullets going towards the target.We were always taught double tap method.

 

The ammunition used in the M16 was 5.56mm × 45mm and notoriously inaccurate and subject to jamming. Also the M16 was touted as self cleaning.....no such thing and American troops we exercised with (331 ASA) hated the thing.It was only good for close quarter use (under 100mtrs) and above that, not very accurate as the bullets tended to "tumble". 

 

Police are not trained to use the automatic mode as normal procedure and instead use the double tap method which is far more accurate and deadly as the second round  invariably causes death by shock.

 

The good thing about our police marksmen are that they are better trained than these Islamic Terrorists and the weapons of a far higher quality.

 

Apart from that, I say give the police marksmen a medal and a drink.

[Salerno]

5 hours ago, Watchful said:

Nevertheless, I prefer that our police, who are trained, have weapons equal to the terrorists. 

So they should have fixed bayonets on Saturday?

[Chou Anou]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

So why do NONE of them say Islamic terrorism?

 

Why are huge numbers not out on the streets protesting against the atrocities committed in the name of Allah?

 

Sorry, doesn't wash anymore.

 

Trust me, wailing, gnashing of teeth, renting and tearing asunder garments would be a much better approach 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/05/imams-refuse-funeral-prayers-to-indefensible-london-bridge-attackers?CMP=fb_gu

[Scott]

Video reported and removed.  

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Chou Anou said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/05/imams-refuse-funeral-prayers-to-indefensible-london-bridge-attackers?CMP=fb_gu

Well, that is encouraging!

[Watchful]

2 hours ago, Salerno said:

So they should have fixed bayonets on Saturday?

Are you asking this because the London attackers had knives?

 

Actually I heard somewhere that a police officer attacked one of the terrorists with the only weapon he had ... a baton! I hope that isn't true. I hope police have better weapons than that.

 

As for bayonets, I have no idea if the police rifles even accept bayonets. I can't imagine they would be very effective even if they did. 

 

My comment on "parity" of weapons had to do with the fact that we learned from Paris terrorists use AK-47's.

 

 

[Salerno]

11 minutes ago, Watchful said:

Actually I heard somewhere that a police officer attacked one of the terrorists with the only weapon he had ... a baton! I hope that isn't true. I hope police have better weapons than that.

Traditionally Brit cops don't carry firearms .... not sure how long that tradition will remain.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/london-bridge-attack/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551

Edited June 6, 2017 by Salerno

[brewsterbudgen]

The terrorists were British born, just like the idiot in Manchester.
 
So the problem was created more than 20 years ago , too late now. 
 

I think it's the radicalisation that is the problem and that has only really been a factor in the UK since 2000.

[Watchful]

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

A few things. Not disagreeing with all of your post and I agree with your stance.

 

There is no such thing as AK47 ammunition. The AK47 uses 7.62mm  x 39mm 122 grain sub sonic ammunition. This is also used in many other types of rifle and 7.62mm is a standard round used by both "Warsaw" and NATO pact countries. Anyone who served in the UK military in the 60s/70s and 80s will have been used to using 7.62 high velocity ammunition in a GPMG, LMG,  FM SLR  or 9mm in an SMG or Browning pistol. The SMG and browning pistols were a joke and the Indian ammunition (purple ring) used so weak, you could see the bullets going towards the target.We were always taught double tap method.

 

The ammunition used in the M16 was 5.56mm × 45mm and notoriously inaccurate and subject to jamming. Also the M16 was touted as self cleaning.....no such thing and American troops we exercised with (331 ASA) hated the thing.It was only good for close quarter use (under 100mtrs) and above that, not very accurate as the bullets tended to "tumble". 

 

Police are not trained to use the automatic mode as normal procedure and instead use the double tap method which is far more accurate and deadly as the second round  invariably causes death by shock.

 

The good thing about our police marksmen are that they are better trained than these Islamic Terrorists and the weapons of a far higher quality.

 

Apart from that, I say give the police marksmen a medal and a drink.

My ammo is 7.62 x 39 123 grain (Barnaul) and 124 grain match grade (Silver Bear). I've come to regret the Silver Bear.

 

Anyhow, Flustered, I agree the M16 isn't all that accurate. Although when we qualified I had no trouble with full silhouettes at 300 yards. My semi is way better for two reasons:

 

1. Longer barrel

2. Auto mechanism is much smoother - doesn't "jump" as much

 

Flustered, I also had to qualify with the M14 and that would be my weapon of choice. It is a full automatic rifle, but cycles no where near as fast as the M16. Much larger round and cartridge giving you penetration and range. As for accuracy, it's far better than either the M16 or my semi.

 

It's disadvantage is weight - it's heavy and so is the ammo!

 

This is the weapon I'd recommend for police to fight terrorists, because as police you aren't going to carry that much ammo. Thus ammo weight isn't that important. Next, you want a round that can penetrate those Kelvar vests.

[Thaiwine]

9 hours ago, balo said:

The terrorists were British born, just like the idiot in Manchester.

 

So the problem was created more than 20 years ago , too late now. 

 

of the two named so far one was Pakistan born the other Morrocan-Libyan

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40165646