Russians not paying maintenance fees - legal

[alex8912]

On 8/7/2017 at 7:15 AM, tomwct said:

I would never buy a condo in Thailand for just these reasons. A house you can control, but 200 units you cannot. It's not

only the Russians who do not pay but Thai's too. We have a few Thai's in our neighborhood who won't pay 600 THB a month for security

and landscaping, so I can imagine it would be like pulling teeth to get 2500 THB per month or more.

Very strange reason to not own a condo. It comes down to the building. There are soooooooocookoocookoo reasons NOT to buy house especially in Pattaya and BKK on this forum. 

The main problem with most inexperienced condo shoppers here is they want a lot of BLING for no $$$ (insert British pounds) I mean they think it's a buyers market 24/7/365 

I have read this for 7 years here 

yet it's really not for prime and semi prime locations. 

[KittenKong]

12 hours ago, inThailand said:

Falsifying documents is treated seriously here. If you have facts and proof consider filing a police report.

 

LOL. Loads of fake documents in my building.

[KittenKong]

12 hours ago, aussienam said:

Yes our financial report doesn't outline specifically which owners are not paying, just the unpaid amounts.

 

You are lucky. Some dont even say what the unpaid amounts are.

 

 

12 hours ago, aussienam said:

And this reveals yet another problem, our AGMs I feel are rigged to represent as few owners as possible.  We have had 3 years of asking the juristic office to properly notify all owners of the AGM so that those who cannot attend can at least appoint a proxy.  Their answer is that every owner is sent a letter of the meeting by post.  

 

The problem is that the letters are sent to their condo address!  We have said that in this day and age emails are used so send them an email as well.

 

By law they have to send a registered letter but emails are not a valid legal replacement. The building should have up to date addresses for co-owners but if they are abroad then that wont really help because there is no way that a letter would arrive in time, or that a reply would arrive back in time.

 

Of course a good management company would also send emails as you say. Your management company, like ours, is clearly not good. The level of corruption and dishonesty in condo management here is astoundingly high.

 

 

12 hours ago, aussienam said:

The less owners who can be represented at the AGMs the better as it means less owners are aware of the issues and there are less complaints on the floor of the meeting.  

 

Absolutely.

[thailand49]

After reading your explanation, it is clear to me at least you just answer your own question?

The outlined is your management, the sooner they act the sooner the problem is solved and this is whether they are Russians or Thai.

Here, if they act as fast as they are willing to sell the units properly, the reason outlined as to why Russians can't pay isn't relevant.  Proceed with the legal notice to perform and if not put the property up for sale.

 

[dotpoom]

On 07/08/2017 at 6:27 PM, tonray said:

Where do they get the money for living expenses if they cannot bring money from overseas ?

A more poignant question might be where or how did they get the money to buy a condo in the first place if they cannot bring money in (which is a requirement for purchasing a condo, that the money comes in from overseas)?

[Jeffkp]

On 8/7/2017 at 8:23 AM, johng said:

They should just cut water,electric,internet to the units that are more than 2 months in arrears...also all maintenance fees must be paid before selling or transferring ownership.

We have one co-owner who stopped paying maintenance fees two yours ago (not a Russian) in protest because we voted to raise fees. Our Juristic person asked for advice from the Chiang Mai Land Office. She was told we could NOT shut off the water. Best to verify with your local office.

 

BTW, this owner apparently did not realize interest would be added to his debt. He now swears he will not pay it.

[inThailand]

9 minutes ago, Jeffkp said:

We have one co-owner who stopped paying maintenance fees two yours ago (not a Russian) in protest because we voted to raise fees. Our Juristic person asked for advice from the Chiang Mai Land Office. She was told we could NOT shut off the water. Best to verify with your local office.

 

BTW, this owner apparently did not realize interest would be added to his debt. He now swears he will not pay it.

Is the water provided by the city directly to the condo?  Or is the condo providing him water?

[Jeffkp]

Just now, inThailand said:

Is the water provided by the city directly to the condo?  Or is the condo providing him water?

Water is provided by condo.

[inThailand]

11 minutes ago, Jeffkp said:

Water is provided by condo.

Our condo JP Mgr who happened to be a local Thai lawyer has sent registered letters to deliquent owners saying non payment of 6 months of fees will result in termination of condo services and access to common areas and your condo can be put up for auction as well. Owners each own a percent of the common property and are responsible to pay for such, hence why this approach is reasonable and legal. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by inThailand
fat fingers

[david555]

Solution.......identify them and treaten to rapport them they have condo in Thailand to Russian authority's

One done they spread he news .......they start paying!

Money for booze they can afford so same they can find for the maintenance...?

[bazza73]

2 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Very strange reason to not own a condo. It comes down to the building. There are soooooooocookoocookoo reasons NOT to buy house especially in Pattaya and BKK on this forum. 

The main problem with most inexperienced condo shoppers here is they want a lot of BLING for no $$$ (insert British pounds) I mean they think it's a buyers market 24/7/365 

I have read this for 7 years here 

yet it's really not for prime and semi prime locations. 

There are plenty of reasons. That's just one of them.

Noisy neighbours, renovations. My landlord through his agent keeps trying to sell me the condo I'm renting. He's had it on the market for six years now. In that time, I've never had to make way for an inspection by a prospective buyer. Not once. What does that tell you about the market in Chiang Mai? It certainly doesn't look like a seller's market to me.

I have another reason. If I bought the unit, I would have to notify Centrelink in Australia, who would then cut my age pension by $400 a fortnight. Seeing I'm only paying $320 a month in rental, it's a bit of a no-brainer for me.

[MaksimMislavsky]

 

On 07.08.2017 at 5:57 PM, aussienam said:

An interesting discussion with juristic management and subsequent researching online has revealed that in Russia there are severe penalties for Russians sending money overseas unless it is through a Russian bank account.  The penalties range from 50% to 75% of the transferred amount and are a result of the government clamping down on the exodus of money from Russia.

There can porbably be some problem about trasferring the initial amount for purchase of the property (significant amount can attract attention), but wiring a few hundreds or a couple of thousands per month from Russia is no issue whatsoever. There are multiple ways to do it, either using a local Russian bank accout (no penalty! just normal commission fee like everywhere else) or other methods. I'm Russian and I personally do wire some money to Thailand now and then, easily. Moreover, I personally know of people who wired hundreds thousands baht successfully without getting into any trouble.

[Pinot]

The Phuket market for condos is at a standstill and there is an enormous property bubble yet thousands of new condos are about to come on the market. The developers are ruining Phuket from an environmental standpoint. Sewage, water and trash are completely overwhelmed now with thousands of more condo under construction. It's insanity. 

 

Anyone who buys a condo in this market is out of their minds. This is just one more reason of a thousand to rent. Screw these developers. 

 

Kamala Beach is being destroyed by condo developers

 

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

There are plenty of reasons. That's just one of them.

Noisy neighbours, renovations. My landlord through his agent keeps trying to sell me the condo I'm renting. He's had it on the market for six years now. In that time, I've never had to make way for an inspection by a prospective buyer. Not once. What does that tell you about the market in Chiang Mai? It certainly doesn't look like a seller's market to me.

I have another reason. If I bought the unit, I would have to notify Centrelink in Australia, who would then cut my age pension by $400 a fortnight. Seeing I'm only paying $320 a month in rental, it's a bit of a no-brainer for me.

Why would you tell centerlink ????? Cant you have assets up to a certain amount before your pension is effected. 

[MaksimMislavsky]

So I suppose it is just a case of couldn't-care-less attitude

[MaksimMislavsky]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Why would you tell centerlink ?????

Because he is not a Russian!

[jippytum]

What happens to any money left over and where should it be sent? Who cares? I dont. Put it on deposit somewhere in the co-owner's name, send them a letter telling them about it and let them worry about it or not, as they wish. And bill them for sending the letter and wasting your time. You owe these freeloaders nothing

 

Reply...... the surplus cash if any is held on the owner's behalf  by the court for a period of five years .

[newnative]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2560 at 6:43 PM, KittenKong said:

Your management should be applying interest to all unpaid debts as the law allows. There is no reason at all not to do this and no reason to delay.

 

I think that it is entirely legal to cease supplying services to co-owners who have outstanding debts, though some people disagree. I think that this would cover any service provided by and billed directly by the condo, but not any service provided by third parties (ie electricity).

 

Assuming that your management is not dishonest (a big assumption) then all debts can be recovered before a unit is sold as the JPM should not sign the debt-free certificate until such debts are paid.

 

If the debts become large enough to warrant the effort then you can take the co-owners to court and the court may order a sale, in which case the building should get paid as described above. What happens to any money left over and where should it be sent? Who cares? I dont. Put it on deposit somewhere in the co-owner's name, send them a letter telling them about it and let them worry about it or not, as they wish. And bill them for sending the letter and wasting your time. You owe these freeloaders nothing.

 

You say that these Russians are worried about their government finding out about their illegal purchases. In that case the solution is obvious: inform them all that any co-owner with unpaid bills of more than x months will result in an official complaint being made by letter to the authorities in their home country. Such a complaint would, of course, have to be accompanied with full details of their ownership status and ID. It's their problem how legal they are, not yours. That should get them moving like a rocket up the backside.

Totally agree. All condos should have a zero tolerance policy for unpaid condo fees and make the policy known to the owners.  As soon as the law allows, the juristic needs to go to court and force the condo sale for those owners who have not paid their delinquent condo fees after receiving warnings. 

[jippytum]

The  stopping of basic utilities to an occupied condo unit has recently been amended and not permitted for unpaid maintenance fees .

Everyone including myself agree this was a sensible solution however as explained to me by officials at the land office the courts would never agree to withhold  basic services from a Thai family owner or tenant and this  now applies to foreign owners as well .

However the owner or tenant can be barred from using the common area facilities provided and maintained by co owners fees.

It is correct interest on arrears is allowed and the maximum quoted in the condo act is 20% .In reality Thai courts will rarely give judgement in excess of 7%..

Please note also legal fees are not fully recoverable and in a repossession verdict a nominal amount not exceeding 5000 baht will be allowed. However the JPM can represent the condo but the procedure is time consuming and complex.

I agree that to 'name and shame ' serial non payers should be considered.

[Henryford]

The moral of the story is don't buy into a unit which has a high non western ownership. Non payment of fees WILL be an issue.

[newnative]

4 minutes ago, jippytum said:

The  stopping of basic utilities to an occupied condo unit has recently been amended and not permitted for unpaid maintenance fees .

Everyone including myself agree this was a sensible solution however as explained to me by officials at the land office the courts would never agree to withhold  basic services from a Thai family owner or tenant and this  now applies to foreign owners as well .

However the owner or tenant can be barred from using the common area facilities provided and maintained by co owners fees.

It is correct interest on arrears is allowed and the maximum quoted in the condo act is 20% .In reality Thai courts will rarely give judgement in excess of 7%..

Please note also legal fees are not fully recoverable and in a repossession verdict a nominal amount not exceeding 5000 baht will be allowed. However the JPM can represent the condo but the procedure is time consuming and complex.

I agree that to 'name and shame ' serial non payers should be considered.

'Common area facilities maintained by co-owner fees' would include the elevators.  If a condo has a keycard system for elevator floor access or to the pools, gym, etc.  the first step could be blocking the delinquent owners keycard.  The court process may be time-consuming but I think it needs to be done--perhaps the delinquent owners could be batched and submitted to the court at the same time.

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Why would you tell centerlink ????? Cant you have assets up to a certain amount before your pension is effected. 

Yes, I can have assets up to a certain level. I get a part pension, not full. The effect of owning a residence anywhere is quite drastic, as my previous post indicated.

Why would I tell Centrelink? Because we are past the age of Big Brother. They have data matching and bank transfer details on everyone.

I prefer to play it straight. Believe me, if you get nailed for making false statements or omitting information to Centrelink, you are in a world of trouble. Including possible jail time.

[inThailand]

7 minutes ago, Henryford said:

The moral of the story is don't buy into a unit which has a high non western ownership. Non payment of fees WILL be an issue.

Unfortunately, it appears this is very common. And if falangs push the issue, retaliation is very possible.

[KittenKong]

37 minutes ago, jippytum said:

Reply...... the surplus cash if any is held on the owner's behalf  by the court for a period of five years .

 

It is absolutely true that it's the courts business to deal with any money left over after the sale and you are entirely right to point this out.

 

My point was that as a co-owner and possibly a committee member in that building I couldn't care less what happens to the extra money or to the co-owner who wont pay his dues. I would only be interested in collecting what he owes and in seeing the back of him.

[KittenKong]

24 minutes ago, Henryford said:

The moral of the story is don't buy into a unit which has a high non western ownership. Non payment of fees WILL be an issue.

 

I dont think that skin colour or race comes into it at all. The freeloaders and thieves I have come across here (and there are plenty of both) are of all colours.

[MaksimMislavsky]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

I dont think that skin colour or race comes into it at all. The freeloaders and thieves I have come across here (and there are plenty of both) are of all colours.

Anyway, Westerners (no, i'm not one of them) still seem to be by far more likely to obey the rules, regardless of their particular "colour"

[Baerboxer]

On 8/7/2017 at 6:15 PM, tomwct said:

I would never buy a condo in Thailand for just these reasons. A house you can control, but 200 units you cannot. It's not

only the Russians who do not pay but Thai's too. We have a few Thai's in our neighborhood who won't pay 600 THB a month for security

and landscaping, so I can imagine it would be like pulling teeth to get 2500 THB per month or more.

 

Same in our Mobaan. Quite a large amount of households don't bother paying - and they are all Thai! Usually have BMWs, Mercs, and Porches, with red plates of course, but can't be bothered, who actually afford their maintenance. We all pay quarterly and a color coded sign is displayed for those who have paid. So we all know who doesn't. But that shaming, loss of face doesn't seem to bother them.

 

There has been talk of them stopping cars entering the village from houses that haven't paid. They make them use the visitor lanes and won't give them the automatic barrier electronic tags. But haven't barred them yet.

 

I've been told that a few want to leave, but that they won't be allowed to remove all their goods until they settle up.

 

 

[MaksimMislavsky]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

You say that these Russians are worried about their government finding out about their illegal purchases. In that case the solution is obvious: inform them all that any co-owner with unpaid bills of more than x months will result in an official complaint being made by letter to the authorities in their home country. Such a complaint would, of course, have to be accompanied with full details of their ownership status and ID. It's their problem how legal they are, not yours. That should get them moving like a rocket up the backside.

Nope. Russian authorities are too busy minding their own business. Any such complaints from abroad will most likely be brushed off as mere nuisance. Unless a person owns dozens of units so a good shakedown could be expected. 

[chickenrunCM]

you really think that russian goverment would care about any unpaid bills in Thailand?  if they buy the condo, the money has to come from outside the country not from russia! saying that is money laundring is a very high accusian, how did you buy your condo? Maybe on the name of your thai wife with your money, this would be for sure money laundering!

[KittenKong]

55 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

Nope. Russian authorities are too busy minding their own business. Any such complaints from abroad will most likely be brushed off as mere nuisance. Unless a person owns dozens of units so a good shakedown could be expected. 

 

You miss the point. The idea is not to actually make a complaint (which would be fairly pointless as you mention) but to get the co-owners to think that a complaint will be made if they dont pay up.