SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

The news only came out since a few days.

 

There isn't any news in that opinion piece.

[dundee48]

15 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Just read it. Absolutely nothing of substance in it. Just a remain journalist trying to create a story out of nothing.

They`re getting desperate now,the UK economy is not crashing and burning like their hero Mark Carney "predicted" with his big anti Brexit crystal bol-locks.

Edited November 6, 2017 by dundee48

[tomacht8]

7 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

They`re getting desperate now,the UK economy is not crashing and burning like their hero Mark Carney "predicted" with his big anti Brexit crystal bol-locks.

Yes sure.

The UK is still a EU member.

Wait until spring 2019.

Then we can talk again.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

16 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

An "Independent Democracy" only works if the economic conditions allow it to. I doubt that with a collapsing currency, unemployment of 10% and higher, inflation of 10% or more - in short a collapsing economy - a proper democracy can work.It's really fertile ground for extreme right or left populists and not for democrats. Please beware of a "hard Brexit", it will be a disaster for the UK!

"collapsing currency, unemployment of 10% and higher, inflation of 10% or more - in short a collapsing economy"

 

Where? Spain?

The pound has been stable since June 25th 2016 pretty much within a few cents of the Dollar.

Has it been a problem, Harold Wilson said it: The pound in your pocket is worth the same.

Well, in the UK it hasn't made a difference.

Unemployment? Inflation?

Check the figures...

 

Doom and gloom prophesy by the remain campaign didn't happen.

"Hard Brexit" seems to be the aim of the EU as a sort of ridiculous bargaining chip to get an unrealistic settlement to prop up their financial profligacy.

Sorry, that's all complete nonsense.

 

 

 

[dundee48]

21 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes sure.

The UK is still a EU member.

Wait until spring 2019.

Then we can talk again.

Thought you didn`t care,seems like you`re desperate for UK to stay.Missing the money already?

[tomacht8]

5 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

Thought you didn`t care,seems like you`re desperate for UK to stay.Missing the money already?

No problem. 

We will print some more.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

18 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes sure.

The UK is still a EU member.

Wait until spring 2019.

Then we can talk again.

I am looking forward to the moment of freedom, and we will indeed see what happens.

The EU have a lot to lose don't forget.

The UK rejoins the world and will prosper without EU shackles.

 

Reform might be forced on them before it all falls like the house built of straw that it is.

 

Auf weidersehen and adieu...

 

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

10 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

No problem. 

We will print some more.

Just like the US, EU etc...

Or print some of your own?

 

[tomacht8]

4 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I am looking forward to the moment of freedom, and we will indeed see what happens.

The EU have a lot to lose don't forget.

The UK rejoins the world and will prosper without EU shackles.

 

Reform might be forced on them before it all falls like the house built of straw that it is.

 

Auf weidersehen and adieu...

 

 

 

 

Agree.

Hope should never die.

Good luck.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Just like the US, EU etc...

Or print some of your own?

 

With the money printing you should not exclude the uk.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

Just now, tomacht8 said:

With the money printing you should not exclude the uk.

I wasn't, you had pointed to that, I was just reminding you that we were not the only ones.

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I am looking forward to the moment of freedom, and we will indeed see what happens.

The EU have a lot to lose don't forget.

The UK rejoins the world and will prosper without EU shackles.

 

Reform might be forced on them before it all falls like the house built of straw that it is.

 

Auf weidersehen and adieu...

 

 

 

 

Dream on:

'Even our best friends have to play by the rules': US Commerce Secretary calls for Britain to fall in line with American standards post-Brexit

US Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said in London speech that the US "want to be your number one trading partner worldwide" post-Brexit.
But Ross attacked "regulatory divergence" between EU and US, and called for Britain to follow US standards to boost trade. Asked about recent aircraft tariffs that have put 1,000 Northern Irish jobs at risk, Ross said: "Even our best friends really have to play by the rules."
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-on-post-brexit-trade-with-uk-2017-11

•  

Edited November 6, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Orac]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Dream on:

'Even our best friends have to play by the rules': US Commerce Secretary calls for Britain to fall in line with American standards post-Brexit

US Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said in London speech that the US "want to be your number one trading partner worldwide" post-Brexit.
But Ross attacked "regulatory divergence" between EU and US, and called for Britain to follow US standards to boost trade. Asked about recent aircraft tariffs that have put 1,000 Northern Irish jobs at risk, Ross said: "Even our best friends really have to play by the rules."
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-on-post-brexit-trade-with-uk-2017-11

•  

 

Mmmmm - the future

 

 

[simoh1490]

10 hours ago, rufanuf said:

What do you know then? That the rest of us don't? Simply amazes me that so many stupid people think big government is a good idea, reagardless of ANY economic reason in favour of or against the EU..the EU is simply a repeat effort by this generations power brokers, using this generations methods, as the last generations powerbrokers using the last generations methods. Greedy people trying to carve up the fruits of as many other normal hardworking people between themselves as they possibly can. It never ends....just cycles.

There is some aspect of EU membership that is not great and there are some that are undesirable, there are also a few that are really bad. But the alternative, based on what we know today, it's all really bad. So the question is whether it's better to try and modify something that's sub-optimal from the inside, or whether we should throw it all away and start again fresh from the ground floor, in the hope that it will all be better at some point in the future than things are now. Well certainly, if we start over with a blank sheet of paper, at some point in the future things will be better than they are today, but can we really afford to wait that long, as in ten years or more, I mean, it's not as though the rest of the world will stand still and wait for UK plc to redevelop its trade links and resuscitate its GDP! And if we do that, what will we have achieved? We won't have added £350 million a week to the NHS plus we won't have lowered immigration by very much because we still need immigrants as part of our workforce. What we definitely will have achieved though is we will have shrunk our GDP, raised the cost of living, put the country in even deeper debt and for what, just so we can have Morris Dancing as our national pastime and exchange shepherds pie recipes unfettered and without interference from Brussels, it's all a nonsense.

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Just like the US, EU etc...

Or print some of your own?

 

If anything shows the general ignorance about the EU it's this: The Eurozone has enforced budget austerity ever since the financial meltdown. Unlike the USA and the UK. And not surprisingly its economic recovery badly trailed those 2 nations. As for the rest of the EU, there is no set policy because those nations aren't bound by Eurozone rules. For which they should be very grateful.

[rufanuf]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

There is some aspect of EU membership that is not great and there are some that are undesirable, there are also a few that are really bad. But the alternative, based on what we know today, it's all really bad. So the question is whether it's better to try and modify something that's sub-optimal from the inside, or whether we should throw it all away and start again fresh from the ground floor, in the hope that it will all be better at some point in the future than things are now. Well certainly, if we start over with a blank sheet of paper, at some point in the future things will be better than they are today, but can we really afford to wait that long, as in ten years or more, I mean, it's not as though the rest of the world will stand still and wait for UK plc to redevelop its trade links and resuscitate its GDP! And if we do that, what will we have achieved? We won't have added £350 million a week to the NHS plus we won't have lowered immigration by very much because we still need immigrants as part of our workforce. What we definitely will have achieved though is we will have shrunk our GDP, raised the cost of living, put the country in even deeper debt and for what, just so we can have Morris Dancing as our national pastime and exchange shepherds pie recipes unfettered and without interference from Brussels, it's all a nonsense.

Sorry, but theres opinions and then there's just the rules of nature. "We need immigration for our economy". No we don't. What's needed is for the mass population to get educated and realise that just because someone in government came up with the idea of using a term "GDP" that we should all use to measure our standard of living, makes it so. It doesn't. Its actually this obssession with such figures that's led the UK into the mess it's in. Over populated, socially divided, over taxed, and going knowehere either in or out of the EU, as most of the damage is historic.

 

Politicians with there relentless appetite for power know that if they can generate tax, they can win votes. That in know way means it's good for the existing population of a nation. On the contrary, it means the gradual dismantling of society as a result of stupid people in power thinking they can measure quality of life issues using a simple bit of maths.

Edited November 7, 2017 by rufanuf

[simoh1490]

36 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Sorry, but theres opinions and then there's just the rules of nature. "We need immigration for our economy". No we don't. What's needed is for the mass population to get educated and realise that just because someone in government came up with the idea of using a term "GDP" that we should all use to measure our standard of living, makes it so. It doesn't. Its actually this obssession with such figures that's led the UK into the mess it's in. Over populated, socially divided, over taxed, and going knowehere either in or out of the EU, as most of the damage is historic.

 

Politicians with there relentless appetite for power know that if they can generate tax, they can win votes. That in know way means it's good for the existing population of a nation. On the contrary, it means the gradual dismantling of society as a result of stupid people in power thinking they can measure quality of life issues using a simple bit of maths.

GDP is a common means of measuring the performance of an economy, it was created by economists not politicians and the basic principle of it has been around for hundreds of years. It doesn't matter whether you call it GDP or any other name you want to come up with, there will always be those people in society who want to understand economic performance and compare it against that of other countries.

 

And of course the cure historically for an overpopulated and socially divided population is a jolly good war, it's always solved those problems and healed social divides so be careful what you wish for!

 

So yes, we can re-educate people to be less monetarist,  nationalizing the nations housing stock would be a great start. And of course, then we could ban employment and simply pay everyone a living wage, those things, and socialised healthcare along with renationalised industry would make for a wonderful social environment. But then again somebody would need to pay for it all so that brings us back to trading partners and how sensible it is disconnect ourselves from our historic and closest trading partners in favour of more remote ones that we haven't yet identified. However, you slice up the argument and however the country chooses to spend its money eventually, the prerequisite is the need for trade and commerce. 

[rufanuf]

""""GDP is a common means of measuring the performance of an economy, it was created by economists not politicians and the basic principle of it has been around for hundreds of years. It doesn't matter whether you call it GDP or any other name you want to come up with, there will always be those people in society who want to understand economic performance and compare it against that of other countries.

 

And of course the cure historically for an overpopulated and socially divided population is a jolly good war, it's always solved those problems and healed social divides so be careful what you wish for!

 

So yes, we can re-educate people to be less monetarist,  nationalizing the nations housing stock would be a great start. And of course, then we could ban employment and simply pay everyone a living wage, those things, and socialised healthcare along with renationalised industry would make for a wonderful social environment. But then again somebody would need to pay for it all so that brings us back to trading partners and how sensible it is disconnect ourselves from our historic and closest trading partners in favour of more remote ones that we haven't yet identified. However, you slice up the argument and however the country chooses to spend its money eventually, the prerequisite is the need for trade and commerce. ""

 

 

 

Stating the obvious, doesn't change the obvious!

 

Yes these ideas have been around for 100s of years. Economists, Politicians..."Experts" call them what you like, they are essentially the same group of people. Those who think they know whats good for everyone else, whilst at the same time furthering their own interests. Trade and Commerce on the whole does not need these people to flourish. This is why big government ultimately fails, and why I would always vote to see it fail sooner rather than later. Trade and commerce will do better without their interference.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by rufanuf

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Stating the obvious, doesn't change the obvious!

 

Yes these ideas have been around for 100s of years. Economists, Politicians..."Experts" call them what you like, they are essentially the same group of people. Those who think they know whats good for everyone else, whilst at the same furthering their own interests. Trade and Commerce on the whole does not need these people to flourish. This is why big government ultimately fails, and why I would always vote to see it fail sooner rather than later. Trade and commerce will do better without their interference.

 

 

"This is why big government ultimately fails.."

I guess you can say everything ultimately fails or will ultimately fail but that's nothing more than a truism which is true not only of government but people. Or do you mean big government makes mistakes? Again, true of pretty much everyone. You really need to be a lot more specific.

And it's true those ideas have been around for hundreds of years. And prosperity has generally been increasing.  Might be an argument in favor of them?

[rufanuf]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"This is why big government ultimately fails.."

I guess you can say everything ultimately fails or will ultimately fail but that's nothing more than a truism which is true not only of government but people. Or do you mean big government makes mistakes? Again, true of pretty much everyone. You really need to be a lot more specific.

And it's true those ideas have been around for hundreds of years. And prosperity has generally been increasing.  Might be an argument in favor of them?

What your saying is also a "truism"...but what's also true is that big government has throughout history proven to be a mistake that's often led to war. The idea that prosperity has generally increased. I am not sure is a truism, as relative poverty has probably never been worse in all of man kinds history. For those at the top they can plan on owning their Islands and flying into space for a holiday. For those at the bottom it's "same as it ever was". A fight for survival.

[rufanuf]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"This is why big government ultimately fails.."

I guess you can say everything ultimately fails or will ultimately fail but that's nothing more than a truism which is true not only of government but people. Or do you mean big government makes mistakes? Again, true of pretty much everyone. You really need to be a lot more specific.

And it's true those ideas have been around for hundreds of years. And prosperity has generally been increasing.  Might be an argument in favor of them?

What your saying is also a "truism"...but what's also true is that big government has throughout history proven to be a mistake that's often led to war. The idea that prosperity has generally increased. I am not sure is a truism, as relative poverty has probably never been worse in all of man kinds history. For those at the top they can plan on owning their Islands and flying into space for a holiday. For those at the bottom it's "same as it ever was". A fight for survival.

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

What your saying is also a "truism"...but what's also true is that big government has throughout history proven to be a mistake that's often led to war. The idea that prosperity has generally increased. I am not sure is a truism, as relative poverty has probably never been worse in all of man kinds history. For those at the top they can plan on owning their Islands and flying into space for a holiday. For those at the bottom it's "same as it ever was". A fight for survival.

Easily available public health statistics alone would show your assertions to be nonsense.

[LaoPo]

9 hours ago, dundee48 said:

The Guardian=hahahahahahahahahah.Completely unbiased=hahahahahahah.

 

I know The Guardian is leftish but I'm sure you can hand me some other (right) news sources proving Putin has NOT influenced the LEAVE CAMPAIGN and/or the US elections...?

 

I'm eager to learn  

[LaoPo]

9 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes sure.

The UK is still a EU member.

Wait until spring 2019.

Then we can talk again.

 

Most Brits on this forum are pro BREXIT LEAVE I suppose  

[simoh1490]

I don't think so!

[LaoPo]

8 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

 

The UK rejoins the world and will prosper without EU shackles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Hahaha..sure:

 

43% of UK exports to the EU is some GBP240 Billion out of GBP550 Billion of total exports 

Shackels...? Which shackels? I'm sure you made a typing error and meant your own UK Shackels ?

 

Which countries are replacing the EU exports to buy goods+services of GBP 240 Billion?

 

 

* 

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, rufanuf said:

Sorry, but theres opinions and then there's just the rules of nature. "We need immigration for our economy". No we don't. What's needed is for the mass population to get educated and realise that just because someone in government came up with the idea of using a term "GDP" that we should all use to measure our standard of living, makes it so. It doesn't. Its actually this obssession with such figures that's led the UK into the mess it's in. Over populated, socially divided, over taxed, and going knowehere either in or out of the EU, as most of the damage is historic.

 

Politicians with there relentless appetite for power know that if they can generate tax, they can win votes. That in know way means it's good for the existing population of a nation. On the contrary, it means the gradual dismantling of society as a result of stupid people in power thinking they can measure quality of life issues using a simple bit of maths.

"We need immigration for our economy". No we don't. What's needed is for the mass population to get educated and realise that just because someone in government came up with the idea of using a term "GDP" that we should all use to measure our standard of living, makes it so. It doesn't."

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

50 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"This is why big government ultimately fails.."

I guess you can say everything ultimately fails or will ultimately fail but that's nothing more than a truism which is true not only of government but people. Or do you mean big government makes mistakes? Again, true of pretty much everyone. You really need to be a lot more specific.

And it's true those ideas have been around for hundreds of years. And prosperity has generally been increasing.  Might be an argument in favor of them?

"And it's true those ideas have been around for hundreds of years. And prosperity has generally been increasing."

 

Until relatively recently - when the prosperity has been declining for the poor/average, whilst increasing for the wealthy.

[LaoPo]

3 hours ago, rufanuf said:

Sorry, but theres opinions and then there's just the rules of nature. "We need immigration for our economy". No we don't.

 

"No we don't" ?

 

Maybe you can enlighten me WHO's going to do the UK's dirty work, the work of the health care nurses, the Polish construction builder and so on?

Maybe you have forgotten about the fast ageing UK and EU population and there will be no other way than immigration to solve this huge problem in the next few decades.

""

More than 100,000 EU citizens left Britain in the three months after the EU referendum, new figures showed this week.

New worker registrations from Poland are down 16 per cent year on year, Hungary down 14 per cent, and Slovakia down 20 per cent.""

 

From: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-uk-businesses-recruitment-crisis-polish-workers-return-home-immigration-eu-a7596956.html

[simoh1490]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"We need immigration for our economy". No we don't. What's needed is for the mass population to get educated and realise that just because someone in government came up with the idea of using a term "GDP" that we should all use to measure our standard of living, makes it so. It doesn't."

 

 

Memo David Davis,

 

Dear Dave, please add line item to Brexit plan, educate 66 million people in culture change and revamp country's economic accounting standards, allow six months to complete and fully implement - the benefit is there will no longer be a need for any immigration.

 

kind regards