New roof advice

[Sheryl]

Goodness no. Just 1 of the 4 roofs completed and part of a second one. Stay tuned....

They are grappling with the valley gutters/roof junctures. Using wire mesh to try to critter proof it as not enough space to put the eaves filler.

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[Sheryl]

OK we completed the experiment re shading.

 

Extending the gable eaves out an additional 1 meter will fully shade the upper story of the house and partly shade the lower. Adding a 1 meter awning to the first story (a sort of awning skirt) should shade pretty much the whole house...with no loss of view.

 

I will do this on the front which faces south. On the west and east sides only half of the house is exposed to sun, will do first floor awning  and then add those sunshield things over the windows on the second floor.

 

Should make a big difference in the amount of heat the house absorbs during the day and gives off at night, yes?

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

OK we completed the experiment re shading.

 

Extending the gable eaves out an additional 1 meter will fully shade the upper story of the house and partly shade the lower. Adding a 1 meter awning to the first story (a sort of awning skirt) should shade pretty much the whole house...with no loss of view.

 

I will do this on the front which faces south. On the west and east sides only half of the house is exposed to sun, will do first floor awning  and then add those sunshield things over the windows on the second floor.

 

Should make a big difference in the amount of heat the house absorbs during the day and gives off at night, yes?

Yes indeed it should.

 

Can you point me at a picture of which eave you expect to extend by one metre, please? Is everyone comfortable that doing that doesn't change/alter the balance of the roof or compromise weight issues or it's construction? I have no reason to believe it will do so but when you say what you did and it rolls off the tongue so easily,  it's not as though extending a roof by one metre is the simplest of tasks - perhaps others can also look at it and suggest if there are risks? 

[Sheryl]

 

Will do with Colorbond so lightweight

[simoh1490]

It looks as though it already overhangs by one metre, so now you're going to two metres, is that the case? If so, I'd have thought a two-metre overhang would probably need supporting at the end of the overhang, struts back to the wall of the house, every however many metres - two metres is not a small distance especially when you consider the impact of heavy rain on top of it and wind underneath it - think of the principle of levers and leverage, the longer the lever the less effort is required, two metre overhang means less effort required to lift the edge of the roof. unless it is secured. Anyone?

Edited December 5, 2017 by simoh1490

[wayned]

She could box in the overhang with struts back to the wall and redo the existing soffit closeouts and then extend the rafters the additional 1 meter.  If she extends the rafters another meter and then boxes them in with struts back to the wall, I think that it would interfere with the windows!  Without a closere onsite look and taking some measurements with a idiot stick I can't be sure!

[simoh1490]

48 minutes ago, wayned said:

She could box in the overhang with struts back to the wall and redo the existing soffit closeouts and then extend the rafters the additional 1 meter.  If she extends the rafters another meter and then boxes them in with struts back to the wall, I think that it would interfere with the windows!  Without a closere onsite look and taking some measurements with a idiot stick I can't be sure!

So do we agree that a 2 metre overhang is going to require supporting struts back to the wall, it seems as though they would?

[carlyai]

Also, what is the wall like strength wise the support struts will anchore on to?

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[tutsiwarrior]

look at the support arrangements that are supplied for awnings to get ideas for supporting an extended roof eave...I thought that I may havta extend my front roof eave to keep the rain offa my 1st floor front terrace and been lookin' at the neighbors' awning arrangements to get ideas...

 

of course the contractor that we bring in to do the work will have his own ideas...

[wayned]

7 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Also, what is the wall like strength wise the support struts will anchore on to?

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The struts don't attach directly to the wall.  They are attached to a beam that runs laterally and is attached to the posts/poles. All of my overhangs are closed out this way.

[Sheryl]

The wall is solid brick. And yes it will have supports under that go back to the wall.

Remember this is very lightweight material it will support...even with the greater length less weight than current. And this does not connect to the roof above, so even if ripped off the roof remains.

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[simoh1490]

Cool! Perhaps useful to keep Wayne's comment about in mind, attach the supports to a common beam rather than directly to the wall.

 

Lastly, and I hate to appear to be a worry wart and all, but:

 

wind under the overhang, should it be vented somehow to allow the passage of air?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, wayned said:

The struts don't attach directly to the wall.  They are attached to a beam that runs laterally and is attached to the posts/poles. All of my overhangs are closed out this way.

Wayned is it possible to post a pix? Would be helpful, thanks

 

And what is the overhang material?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Cool! Perhaps useful to keep Wayne's comment about in mind, attach the supports to a common beam rather than directly to the wall.

 

Lastly, and I hate to appear to be a worry wart and all, but:

 

wind under the overhang, should it be vented somehow to allow the passage of air?

But doesn't the beam attach to the wall at some point?

 

Re passage of air I don't see how.  But due to the design of the house there are natural spaces between the three eave segments where the valley gutters jut out.

 

 

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

But doesn't the beam attach to the wall at some point?

 

Re passage of air I don't see how.  But due to the design of the house there are natural spaces between the three eave segments where the valley gutters jut out.

 

 

Yes, the struts attach to the cross beam which in turn attaches to the wall. The reason for that configuration is that no single strut can compromise the wall, instead, it takes multiple stresses which should be absorbed by the beam, rather than the wall of the structure - in a worst case scenario the beam would be ripped off the wall but the structure will remain intact, do it the other way around and the building is the first point of failure. Make sense?

[wayned]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Wayned is it possible to post a pix? Would be helpful, thanks

 

And what is the overhang material?

I have attached a crude drawing.  At the moment, pictures are a problem.  My Sony Camera died, one of the 6 week old puppies ate the cable for my Nokia phone last week and so far my new Huawei Smartphone has proved far more intelligent than me.  I will try to take some pictures this afternoon and if I don't have any success I'll take a hammer to the Huawei and make it a dumb phone.  The closeout material that I used is cement board, but I have eaves vents.  Since you are going to closeout your eaves vents I would guess that you would use the vented soffit boards that you are using elsewhere.  This way also eliminates any potential wind problem.soffit structure.pdf

[carlyai]

I have attached a crude drawing.  At the moment, pictures are a problem.  My Sony Camera died, one of the 6 week old puppies ate the cable for my Nokia phone last week and so far my new Huawei Smartphone has proved far more intelligent than me.  I will try to take some pictures this afternoon and if I don't have any success I'll take a hammer to the Huawei and make it a dumb phone.  The closeout material that I used is cement board, but I have eaves vents.  Since you are going to closeout your eaves vents I would guess that you would use the vented soffit boards that you are using elsewhere.  This way also eliminates any potential wind problem.soffit structure.pdf

Looks good wayned. [emoji3]
My concern about the wall strength was because of the wind.

Sounds like ' the dog ate my homework' excuse wayned.

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[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, wayned said:

I have attached a crude drawing.  At the moment, pictures are a problem.  My Sony Camera died, one of the 6 week old puppies ate the cable for my Nokia phone last week and so far my new Huawei Smartphone has proved far more intelligent than me.  I will try to take some pictures this afternoon and if I don't have any success I'll take a hammer to the Huawei and make it a dumb phone.  The closeout material that I used is cement board, but I have eaves vents.  Since you are going to closeout your eaves vents I would guess that you would use the vented soffit boards that you are using elsewhere.  This way also eliminates any potential wind problem.soffit structure.pdf

I agree, that looks good, the load is spread along the beam rather than the wall. Also a good idea to use vented sofit board to negate problems with wind.

[wayned]

The first picture is the eaves on the front of the house with the boxed in soffit.  I used the plastic screen eave closeout panels behind the light colored fascia board.  The second is the box closeout on the front.  There is a 2.5 meter porch the entire length of the house with an additional 1 meter overhang,  The third is the porch ceiling connected to the house.  The forth and fifth are the box closeouts on the back with the gutter attached to the fascia board.  The house was  occupied 19 years ago this month and you are looking at the original condition with no upgrades or even paint.

 

I actually used the new phone and managed to download the pictures after many software upgrades and both the phone and the computer didn't suffer a whop with the hammer but it was close at times!

[carlyai]

The first picture is the eaves on the front of the house with the boxed in soffit.  I used the plastic screen eave closeout panels behind the light colored fascia board.  The second is the box closeout on the front.  There is a 2.5 meter porch the entire length of the house with an additional 1 meter overhang,  The third is the porch ceiling connected to the house.  The forth and fifth are the box closeouts on the back with the gutter attached to the fascia board.  The house was  occupied 19 years ago this month and you are looking at the original condition with no upgrades or even paint.
 
I actually used the new phone and managed to download the pictures after many software upgrades and both the phone and the computer didn't suffer a whop with the hammer but it was close at times!

Bout time you fixed up them water pipes mate. [emoji3]

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[Sheryl]

Thanks, Wayne - a picture is worth a thousand words!

 

In my case vented soffits will not work because, except for the middle section,  there is no communication between the eaves and the attic. Air getting in, would have no where to go out.

 

I actually had not thought as far as whether to put in soffits at all, since most awnings I've seen don't have them.

[simoh1490]

The more I think about it, the less need I see there is to have vented soffits on that overhang, the idea being that you don't want to create a parachute, something that the wind can get inside and lift. Since there is no communication between the soffits and the attic, blocking off the soffits would seem to be the right thing to do. But back to the original point, however you go about it, you probably shouldn't have two metres of overhang just hanging there unsupported - the wind and lift issue can be addressed by making the overhang a sealed unit that the wind can't enter - Wayne?

[Sheryl]

The first meter of it is already well supported (see ix) and also sheltered on 2 sides from wind as it forms the base of the gable. It is the extra meter that will protrude beyond that space. It will angle downward, not straight out and that should help. It will of course need struts.

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[wayned]

10 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

The more I think about it, the less need I see there is to have vented soffits on that overhang, the idea being that you don't want to create a parachute, something that the wind can get inside and lift. Since there is no communication between the soffits and the attic, blocking off the soffits would seem to be the right thing to do. But back to the original point, however you go about it, you probably shouldn't have two metres of overhang just hanging there unsupported - the wind and lift issue can be addressed by making the overhang a sealed unit that the wind can't enter - Wayne?

I would support the overhang with struts back to the wall at least at the rafters.  I would also enclose the soffit if it was possible but I always  am in "overkill" mode., ex aircraft structural design experience.  Having said that I have a 2.5 meter metal roofed porch on the back of my workshop that has been there for years in addition to 5 pig pens with storage all with open roofs.  The roof on my house has a 12-8 slope and the ridge board is "way" up in the air.  If you saw the structure that supported it you'd have a good laugh.  I could probably hook, a crane to it a pick up the whole house!

[carlyai]

Really enjoyed this thread and hope, no, know the build is going well.
All good for Christmas, stay strong and healthy. Catch up in the new year.

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[simoh1490]

34 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Really enjoyed this thread and hope, no, know the build is going well.
All good for Christmas, stay strong and healthy. Catch up in the new year.

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Who said you could leave, get back here this instant! 

[wayned]

It's been very quiet!  How's the new roof doing?  We've had light rain all night here, about 1cm,  I expect that it's from the typhoon passing in the south.

[simoh1490]

28 minutes ago, wayned said:

It's been very quiet!  How's the new roof doing?  We've had light rain all night here, about 1cm,  I expect that it's from the typhoon passing in the south.

I was wondering the same thing, maybe Sheryl's taking an extended Xmas break and working on her tan on a beach in the Caribbean, near her winter home, dunno.  

[wayned]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

I was wondering the same thing, maybe Sheryl's taking an extended Xmas break and working on her tan on a beach in the Caribbean, near her winter home, dunno.  

The last that I heard was that she was working in Cambodia and the roof replacement was going on without her.  She might have come home and found a newly constructed swimming pool.  When I built my house I gave them off one day a week and that was the day that I did my resupply run to Bangkok, otherwise I tried to be here whenever they were working.

[Sheryl]

I'm back, it's been raining here for almost a week which obviously slows matters but the roof proper is all on, just under the gables and some flashings left to go. Pix soon