webfact Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 EDITORIAL Nothing gained in hounding the Shinawatras By The Nation The pursuit of Yingluck is a sideshow, a distraction from the slow and quiet murder of democracy in Thailand Although the Foreign Ministry has revoked four passports issued to Yingluck Shinawatra, the pursuit seems unlikely to make much more headway as long as Interpol, the Paris-based international police service, is unable to confirm the fugitive former prime minister’s whereabouts. It remains to be determined whether Interpol is unable to locate her or is simply reluctant to be pulled into the maelstrom of Thai domestic politics. If the latter turns out to be the case, our military-led government can’t claim to have not seen it coming. The writing has been on the wall for years, with no foreign government willing to bring Yingluck’s brother Thaksin to heel in his globetrotting flight from justice. If Thaksin hasn’t by now been detained and shipped back to Thailand to answer for the sins he committed, why should anyone expect Yingluck to be returned? And Thaksin has often being hovering nearby – in Cambodia, Laos and Singapore – but still there was nothing the generals could do about it. Yingluck was on September 25 sentenced to five years in prison for failing to stop the corruption contaminating her government’s rice-pledging scheme. She was already long gone by then, slipping out of the country a month earlier, just before the verdict was originally to have been read. Early last month the police asked Interpol to issue a “blue notice” for Yingluck to locate her. The “red notice” that would follow would compel authorities in the country where she was found to arrest her. But this hounding of fugitive politicians is only damaging Thailand’s international image. Foreigners know our justice system is politicised. They know why politicians get in trouble and why they can flee so easily. As successive governments half-heartedly throw out their dragnets for successive Shinawatras, Thailand is merely antagonising the international community. The junta can insist all it wants that Yingluck’s prosecution was a purely criminal matter, but the global community sees the political dimensions of the case just as well as most Thai citizens do. Criminality was only part of the overall story. The domestic political situation is so precarious, in fact, that if Thaksin and Yingluck managed to form a government in exile, some countries would recognise it. The two can demonstrate, after all, that they in turn earned the popular mandate to govern, only to be ousted in anti-democratic coups. The junta’s audacity in attempting to claim the moral high ground in this affair is the most galling aspect of all. By summoning the powers of Interpol and foreign governments in its pursuit of the Shinawatra clan, it is undermining Thai dignity, blocking all chances of political reconciliation and severely hampering economic progress. The generals – and the Shinawatras too – need to accept that the people of Thailand have had enough of this. We want rid of the corruption, rid of the hypocrisy and rid of the lip service paid to rights and freedoms. Let us agree that Yingluck’s rice-subsidy scheme cost the country billions of baht. Let us agree that the Army was, briefly, the white knight riding to the rescue. And let us agree that the knight’s role is over. We want the freedom to debate issues and we want fresh elections, and let the political cards fall where they may. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30330537 -- © Copyright The Nation 2017-11-01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samui Bodoh Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Kudos to the Nation for this editorial. Once again they have surprised me with their courage and with the quality of their words. 5 minutes ago, webfact said: The generals – and the Shinawatras too – need to accept that the people of Thailand have had enough of this. We want rid of the corruption, rid of the hypocrisy and rid of the lip service paid to rights and freedoms. There is a lot of truth to the statement above, but it is incomplete. There is blame for the Shins. There is blame for the military. There is also blame for what is usually called the 'Yellows' and they need to take their fair share. To 'move on', all those so-called "good people" sitting in their appointed Senate offices, their family members as staff, the generals appointed to all manner of boards and positions (while on half-pay from the military), and all their hangers-on also need to go. To try to absolve these people would be very, very wrong. Time for a radical idea. If you have been a member of parliament, a senator, a leader of an "independent" agency or someone appointed to one of these positions, you have to go. Yes, Thailand would lose as I am sure some of the people are good, and some governing experience would be lost, but time for a radical change. Yes, I know... but one can dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 51 minutes ago, webfact said: as Interpol, the Paris-based international police service, is unable to confirm the fugitive former prime minister’s whereabouts. Boggles the minds how such powerful law enforcement agency such as the Interpol and others can seems to locate a high profile fujitives such as Mega rich boy and ex PM, who must be traveling with entourage of helpers and lackeys using legal traveling documents, airlines, hotels and other public services, and all are using no doubt social media.. the only other explanations is that the people that are 'looking' for them, not really interested in finding them, and only makes the appropriate noises for public consumption... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifino Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Interpol's wise to it all, and is keeping out of the farce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeneeds Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, webfact said: The junta’s audacity in attempting to claim the moral high ground in this affair is the most galling aspect of all. Never will be able to really check until article 44 is removed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinneil Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 The only reason the junta are harping on about the Shinawatras is to cover their own failings. The Shinawatras only ever did anything that would be good for themselves. Absolutely the same as the present crowd. Fill our own pockets first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samui Bodoh Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 hour ago, ezzra said: Boggles the minds how such powerful law enforcement agency such as the Interpol and others can seems to locate a high profile fujitives such as Mega rich boy and ex PM, who must be traveling with entourage of helpers and lackeys using legal traveling documents, airlines, hotels and other public services, and all are using no doubt social media.. the only other explanations is that the people that are 'looking' for them, not really interested in finding them, and only makes the appropriate noises for public consumption... It shouldn't "boggle the mind". Interpol knows that the Thai legal system is a joke in general, and that this case in particular is ridiculous as hell. They know that they are being used, and are reacting accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksidedog Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Prayut knows he will never get either of them back. The whole exercise in futility is simply smoke and mirrors to keep the peasants limited minds thinking that he is actually trying. Total waste of everyones time and makes the country look stupid. Thailand has always been good at shooting itself in the foot though, so no big surprise there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod711 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 hours ago, webfact said: Let us agree that Yingluck’s rice-subsidy scheme cost the country billions of baht. Let us agree that the Army was, briefly, the white knight riding to the rescue. And let us agree that the knight’s role is over. We want the freedom to debate issues and we want fresh elections, and let the political cards fall where they may. I don't disagree, now if a certain political party can sever ties with the Shinawatras and proxies perhaps the country can move forward. Hard to imagine the "leaders" of that party giving up the keys to Shins cash machine though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I don't agree there is nothing to be gained from hounding the Shinawatras.We know this from the lessons provided by George Orwell's Animal Farm.It's important Napoleon should not be blamed for anything at all.Since there are terrible problems on the farm, it's helpful to blame them all on the exiled Snowball.I mean if the animals started blaming Napoleon for his greed, incompetence and brutality, he might lose power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Great for the Shins keeping them in the public eye yet again. A top knotch PR firm could not do a better job than the junta are doing. As for the miltary at any time being white knights, there was only a couple of reasons for the well orchestrated coup, the growing power and popularity of the Shins and what has happened since. But it does appear that it is starting to unravel for the ptb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Real Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 To much talk about Interpol. They are not even thinking about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klauskunkel Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, webfact said: Nothing gained in hounding the Shinawatras I disagree, the government, their spies and the police gained: more eggs on faces, feet in mouths, faces lost - then found - only to be lost again ... and then there is the entertainment value, I think that alone is a huge gain: Police having trouble to fill out a Interpol form, Prawit commenting publicly and eating his words the very next day, Prayut asking his frog: "Where in the world is Yingluck Shinawatra?" all this gained me a long lost six-pack only from laughing, didn't even have to do one sit-up, so thanks to all involved. Edited November 1, 2017 by klauskunkel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon537687643 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 “Slow and quiet murder of democracy in Thailand” everything is slow and quiet when in comes to progress ! Failed state Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YetAnother Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 3 hours ago, webfact said: it is undermining Thai dignity doubt any country has dignity; and, no, thailand is not ready for any commonly-accepted definition of 'democracy' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) There is a lot to be gained by letting politicians know that criminal abuse of their position will lead to lengthy incarceration or self-exile to escape it. Let us agree that Yingluck’s rice-subsidy scheme cost the country billions of baht, let us agree that quite a lot of that ended up in the pockets of the Shinawatras and their cronies, should we just forget about it until the next crooked politician does the same or something similar? Edited November 1, 2017 by halloween Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nausea Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I suspect The Nation can get away with these kind of articles cos it's an English language newspaper, might as well be in ancient Klingon so far as most Thais are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samui Bodoh Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, halloween said: There is a lot to be gained by letting politicians know that criminal abuse of their position will lead to lengthy incarceration or self-exile to escape it. Let us agree that Yingluck’s rice-subsidy scheme cost the country billions of baht, let us agree that quite a lot of that ended up in the pockets of the Shinawatras and their cronies, should we just forget about it until the next crooked politician does the same or something similar? This is precisely the stupidity that drags Thailand down. If there is a desire to go after the Shinawatras, fine. But, if there is not an equal desire to go after all the other criminals, both in civilian and military life, then it is merely the petulant and meaningless "justice" of the powerful. Either there is justice for all or there is justice for none. Edited November 1, 2017 by Samui Bodoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Thaksin should be pursued for the rest of his life for the extra judicial murders carried out during his “war on drugs” propaganda campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 hours ago, webfact said: It remains to be determined whether Interpol is unable to locate her or is simply reluctant to be pulled into the maelstrom of Thai domestic politics. Hmmm... Yingluck vs. tracking fleeing ISIS fighters. Locating a nice looking lady who likes to shop instead of looking for killers and rapists. I'd say any security professional would not bother with Yingluck at all, nor would he pay any respects to people who usurp power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, halloween said: There is a lot to be gained by letting politicians know that criminal abuse of their position will lead to lengthy incarceration or self-exile to escape it. Let us agree that Yingluck’s rice-subsidy scheme cost the country billions of baht, let us agree that quite a lot of that ended up in the pockets of the Shinawatras and their cronies, should we just forget about it until the next crooked politician does the same or something similar? I agree your first sentence but you are silent on whether it applies just to those you disapprove of.There are several politicians who have presided over the murder of civilians, who have treasonably seized power by force of arms, who have refused to give details of huge fortunes earned on miniscule salaries.Do these get a pass? Whether the rice subsidy cost the country a lot is very unfortunate but it is not a crime - and nobody has been charged with it.It was a legitimate policy promoted during an election campaign that was democratically won.The military coup on the other hand has also cost the country untold billions and lacked all legitimacy - but I don't think the offenders are to be charged.Incidentally both the Democrats and the Junta have copied large elements of the populist price subsidy programme. I see you slipped in a lie.Nobody serious has ever suggested the Shinawatras benefited personally. Edited November 1, 2017 by jayboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: Thaksin should be pursued for the rest of his life for the extra judicial murders carried out during his “war on drugs” propaganda campaign. Quite so.But why didn't it happen? There were plenty of opportunities to pin him down but the elites remained silent - even now - while pursuing him on relatively trivial charges.Why do you think that is? Is it ignorance or dishonesty that keeps you silent on this critical point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said: This is precisely the stupidity that drags Thailand down. If there is a desire to go after the Shinawatras, fine. But, if there is not an equal desire to go after all the other criminals, both in civilian and military life, then it is merely the petulant and meaningless "justice" of the powerful. Either there is justice for all or there is justice for none. TYVM for your flame. I won't point out how puerile the "Little Johnny did it too!" argument is, because it is blatantly obvious. Some prosecution is a far larger deterrent than none, and there are few more blatantly corrupt than the Shinawatras, or more deserving of it. Their blatant corruption and wasteful vote-buying policies have cost my family dearly in infrastructure and improvement of this country. While in office they avoid prosecution by buying bent police, appointing family members to high BIB positions and attempted bribery of judges. When they are finally booted, sycophants moan about unfair treatment. The reasons for prosecution are completely irrelevant when the case is proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Someone is awake, so all is not lost, the slow strangulation of democracy , points to an ever increasing measures of curtailing basic freedoms , the question is , how is this matter going to be addressed in the long term, therein will lie the future of Thailand.............................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, jayboy said: I agree your first sentence but you are silent on whether it applies just to those you disapprove of.There are several politicians who have presided over the murder of civilians, who have treasonably seized power by force of arms, who have refused to give details of huge fortunes earned on miniscule salaries.Do these gert a pass? Whether the rice subsidy cost the country a lot is very unfortunate but it is not a crime - and nobody has been charged with it.The military coup has cost the country untold billions but I don't think the offenders are to be charged. I see you slipped in a lie.Nobody serious has ever suggested the Shinawatras benefited personally. No they don't get a pass, they are simply irrelevant to the criminals being discussed. If you choose to believe that the coup cost the country more than the rice scam, or that the Shinawatras didn't profit from that scam, up to you. Many others believe things that defy logic. Any study of the rise and fall of Apichart, a favoured criminal given enormous levels of preferential treatment, involved in every level of the rice scam and G2G scam and now serving a very long sentence, would indicate otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 hours ago, webfact said: Foreigners know our justice system is politicised. The pattern of democracy disruption by the establishment and the military in the last decade with the same modus operandi can't fool the foreigners. Thaksin elected > PAD > coup > junta government > election > Samad > judiciary coup/PAD >Somchai > PAD >Junta government > UDD > election > Yingluck > judiciary coup/PDRC > caretaker government > coup > junta government. Even the blind can see the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, jayboy said: Quite so.But why didn't it happen? There were plenty of opportunities to pin him down but the elites remained silent - even now - while pursuing him on relatively trivial charges.Why do you think that is? Is it ignorance or dishonesty that keeps you silent on this critical point? I think you may need to be a little more thoughtful on how you characterise my motives. I was here when thaksin began his campaign of murder, thousands died because of his actions. That is by far his greatest crime and one he should be tried for. Edited November 1, 2017 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 hours ago, darksidedog said: The whole exercise in futility is simply smoke and mirrors to keep the peasants limited minds thinking that he is actually trying. Also keeps their names in the news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 31 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: Thaksin should be pursued for the rest of his life for the extra judicial murders carried out during his “war on drugs” propaganda campaign. maybe he should but he isn't being hounded Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, AGareth2 said: maybe he should but he isn't being hounded Why is that? I don't know, why not enlighten us all? Edited November 1, 2017 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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