back to training - loaded carries

[robblok]

Just now, hyku1147 said:

I was experiencing loss of power and over tiredness, so I practiced active rest for 2 weeks. Since then, I have gained power, and I am no longer fatigued. In fact, I did another deep squat PR today: 120k x3.

Yes I am worried about it a bit too, but i think its something I have to live with as long as I am restricting calories. I am unsure if you can even get stronger during a diet. But yes I am getting a bit worried about over training because of the tiredness i face at times. 

 

Need to monitor it and if it get worse either stop the diet or do an active recovery / rest. 

[robblok]

28 minutes ago, tropo said:

I do it for a number of reasons. It adds to my performance because it relaxes the pushing muscles when you're pulling and vice versa, it saves time, and your pump will be much better. Arnold always trained like this. I watched a recent video where he explained in great detail how he used to train. They didn't rest. 

I read articles about it too.. just never trained that way I am sure it works because its logical. Though Arnold not always trained like you described he did loads of different things they all did and that is the secret mix it up once in a while. 

[tropo]

39 minutes ago, robblok said:

I read articles about it too.. just never trained that way I am sure it works because its logical. Though Arnold not always trained like you described he did loads of different things they all did and that is the secret mix it up once in a while. 

I must stress, I'm not doing it because of Arnold, but other times you've brought up famous people to back your points and by contrast, that I don't know much, so I thought you'd appreciate the name drop. Arnold comes from a time where people trained harder and longer than they do these days. These days people believe that when the clock strikes 1 hour you have to stop and any further training is a waste of time. I've never subscribed to that way of thinking and most of my workouts extend to about 1.5 hours at least. Another big difference is the frequency of body part training. It's common these days for people to focus on one body part per day, and only once a week. People make a special trip to the gym just to train arms. Back in Arnolds time, they trained all bodyparts 3x a week, for 6 days a week. Arnold used to train twice per day for at least 2 hours each time. He also didn't bulk up and then lose a lot of fat prior to contests as they mostly do these days. That would suit your philosophy - to stay in shape all year round. He used his high activity level to maintain fat levels and conditioning rather than strict dieting.

 

 Here's a recent video where Arnold talks about his competitive training days:

 

 

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Those guys realize you can grow on high reps, seen articles from them about it they just advise against going light during a diet as you will lose your muscle. Usually high reps means a lighter weight and lighter exercise in general. There are exceptions of course. I prefer to follow these guys as they are quite famous and know their stuff. My plan was to stop doing bench as a first exercise but doing incline DB presses. Still in the same rep ranges, i only used bench presses as a measurement because I am so fine attuned to it. I don't worry about it much but if i see it drop I know I am losing strength and something is going wrong. It just makes sense to use the exercise that your most attuned to  measure if your program is doing what it should be doing. 

 

Anyway I don't expect to grow on a caloric restriction, I just want to make sure I don't lose muscle or over train (the last one is the one i worry about most at the moment) That is why i placed a time restriction on my diet. I actually think i did grown a bit around the shoulders and traps but that is an other story. 

There's high reps and high reps. Most people think high reps is sticking on a lightweight and quickly rushing through 15 - 20 reps. You won't be able to lift much for 20 reps when you start out, but after some persistence, you'll find the weights are not light at all. Done properly it's a harder way to train and you'll do low reps on your lazy days and dread high reps.

 

The point was that if you're always focusing on lifting a certain amount of weight, change the rep structure and save the stress. Your muscle size does not correlate to how much you can lift, especially on the bench press, which relies heavily on technique. A lot of small people can bench huge weights and a lot of big people can't.

 

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I must stress, I'm not doing it because of Arnold, but other times you've brought up famous people to back your points and by contrast, that I don't know much, so I thought you'd appreciate the name drop. Arnold comes from a time where people trained harder and longer than they do these days. These days people believe that when the clock strikes 1 hour you have to stop and any further training is a waste of time. I've never subscribed to that way of thinking and most of my workouts extend to about 1.5 hours at least. Another big difference is the frequency of body part training. It's common these days for people to focus on one body part per day, and only once a week. People make a special trip to the gym just to train arms. Back in Arnolds time, they trained all bodyparts 3x a week, for 6 days a week. Arnold used to train twice per day for at least 2 hours each time. He also didn't bulk up and then lose a lot of fat prior to contests as they mostly do these days. That would suit your philosophy - to stay in shape all year round. He used his high activity level to maintain fat levels and conditioning rather than strict dieting.

 

 Here's a recent video where Arnold talks about his competitive training days:

 

 

 

Actually it seems you either been reading the wrong current research or something like that because the current trend is going to 2 to 3 times a week for muscles as its said its best for optimal growth. You are right about the 1.5 hour and when the clock ticks 1 hour its done. I am not sure what to believe i trained long I trained short. I like it around 1 hour but not so much because of what is said but more that much longer i won't have proper energy to do what i need to do. The muscles in the end don't get the same attention. You can get around that by rotating things of course. But if your training muscles 3 times a week you must adapt volume (or chemicals) a natty can't train like Arnold because he just wont recover then. 

 

But Arnold had many different training methods you named one of them, he rotated them as the old age wisdom still counts that you need to change things up once in a while. 

 

Reason I am not going for 2 or 3 times a week on muscles is time plus I don't think I can grow much more so why do something that probably won't give me the results I want. I used to try to do stuff 2 times a week now I come down a bit in frequency to see how that goes especially in times of a caloric deficit plus those loaded caries I am not going to recover from that kind of volume if I ad 3 times a week a muscle. That does not mean I won't try it after the the diet phase because I do like to change things up once in a while. 

 

Anyway my whole point was that I might be feeling a bit more tired recover a bit less then normal and I start to worry if it was over training. But I am just torn between trying to lose just a bit more and shatter some of my personal limits and worries about putting too much strain on myself. Its a personal thing I probably just go on for one more month to see where i can get and then slowly reverse diet and do some recovery training and start an other program while slowly increasing food and monitoring weight. I am truly interested in the reverse dieting theory as it might help me to eat more without gaining fat (or too much fat). 

 

At least all these new things got me interested in stuff again, that is a good thing. I will keep doing the loaded carries as i do like them and they seem to have given me a bit more trap / shoulder development. Not sure yet on the frequency but once i add more food recovery and over training are less of a problem. I want to keep doing something like this as a form of cardio and I do like it as a good day to start the day. It certainly wakes me up. 

 

Im quite sure that I will try your way of training, just not right now probably somewhere half July or August. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

There's high reps and high reps. Most people think high reps is sticking on a lightweight and quickly rushing through 15 - 20 reps. You won't be able to lift much for 20 reps when you start out, but after some persistence, you'll find the weights are not light at all. Done properly it's a harder way to train and you'll do low reps on your lazy days and dread high reps.

 

The point was that if you're always focusing on lifting a certain amount of weight, change the rep structure and save the stress. Your muscle size does not correlate to how much you can lift, especially on the bench press, which relies heavily on technique. A lot of small people can bench huge weights and a lot of big people can't.

 

 

Your as usual (when we are talking about bench)l missing the point because you hate bench press, my point about focusing on the weight was that i use it as a signal to see where I am going. It just makes sense to use one of the exercises your most attuned too. It could have been squat too but im more attuned to bench its just grown that way for me its a great indicator if I am tired or having a good day or if i see myself going down for a while that something is wrong. That is it.. a measuring tool one that is finely tuned, for someone else it could be an other exercise.

 

One of the first things I will do once this cut is done is change order of exercise and begin with incline DB presses just for the change, bench weights are not important for me in a way you think, just as a signalling device. But once I am adding more food i have less need of that signalling device. 

 

 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Actually it seems you either been reading the wrong current research or something like that because the current trend is going to 2 to 3 times a week for muscles as its said its best for optimal growth. You are right about the 1.5 hour and when the clock ticks 1 hour its done. I am not sure what to believe i trained long I trained short. I like it around 1 hour but not so much because of what is said but more that much longer i won't have proper energy to do what i need to do. The muscles in the end don't get the same attention. You can get around that by rotating things of course. But if your training muscles 3 times a week you must adapt volume (or chemicals) a natty can't train like Arnold because he just wont recover then. 

 

 

9

It's has nothing to do with reading research. It's the trend amongst the bodybuilding world to train low frequency, and a body part once a week is very common among the current crop of bodybuilders. No one is doing any research that has much bearing on bodybuilding progress amongst highly trained people that take drugs.

 

I approach frequency differently. I'm training shoulders on back, chest and shoulder days. I'm training triceps on chest and shoulder days. I'm training biceps on back days. Of course, they are getting work on other days too. Powerlifters can tear biceps tendons on deadlifts.

 

 Your clock and my clock are different. I know when I'm shot and I'm no longer getting anything from my workout, and that doesn't happen until about 1.5 hours in my case, and sometimes longer. It depends on energy expended and how much energy reserves I have. I could train abs and calves after a 1.5-hour workout and still get full benefit because they don't tax the body much.  I know when the moment arrives that I'm wasting my time. That can come earlier too. If it does happen and I haven't finished what I want to do, I stop. We're all different and our level of fitness comes into play too.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Your as usual (when we are talking about bench)l missing the point because you hate bench press, my point about focusing on the weight was that i use it as a signal to see where I am going. It just makes sense to use one of the exercises your most attuned too. It could have been squat too but im more attuned to bench its just grown that way for me its a great indicator if I am tired or having a good day or if i see myself going down for a while that something is wrong. That is it.. a measuring tool one that is finely tuned, for someone else it could be an other exercise.

 

One of the first things I will do once this cut is done is change order of exercise and begin with incline DB presses just for the change, bench weights are not important for me in a way you think, just as a signalling device. But once I am adding more food i have less need of that signalling device. 

 

 

LOL> As usual, I'm missing your point? Really?

 

I understand your point very well. I'm suggesting your obsessing about your strength levels, thinking that if you bench a few reps less you're losing muscle mass. At the end of the day, you'll lose what you're going to lose on your diet and an extreme cardio regime, irrespective of what you can bench. All you're doing is adding anxiety. I was suggesting that you take the load off your mind by letting go and just doing something different.

 

It's beside the point, but seeing as you mentioned that I "hate the bench press" I thought I should make this point

 

... just because I don't do flat bench press doesn't mean I hate it. It means I've found that it is no good for me at this point in my life. Some exercises made the cut - others have been cast aside. What you don't know, and what I haven't told you, is that I do incline bench AND incline DB. Incline bench is, in fact, my 3rd chest exercise out of 3 and I ALWAYS do barbell chest work last. Why? It might seem counterintuitive to someone like you who is obsessed with performance and numbers, but I do it last on purpose so that I DON'T use as much weight and focus more on what the muscles are doing rather than how much they are pressing. Quite literally I don't give a damn how much weight is on the bar because I've already done at least 8 sets of other chest exercises before I do BB inclines. Depending on how hard I hit the other exercises, which of course varies from workout to workout, that can vary quite a bit in terms of weight and reps on the final exercise - Incline BB. What I end up with is a great chest workout despite the numbers. It's just a more organic and intuitive way to train. I've been where you are. I was stuck in the bench press groove for decades as most people are. It's a hard habit to break. It's the very reason why Monday is the "International Chest Day" in gyms around the world.

 

 

[tropo]

Here's a very interesting video. This guy started out at about 220 lbs and decided he wanted to cut down for a natural bodybuilding contest. He won, but the interesting thing is he ended up at 143 lbs on stage. He was amazed at how low he had to go to become totally ripped. When he started he thought he'd be ripped at 190, then 180, then 170... still not ripped enough to compete.

 

 

[Damrongsak]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

... He was amazed at how low he had to go to become totally ripped....

I'm amazed at the number of beers I have to drink to become totally ripped.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

It's has nothing to do with reading research. It's the trend amongst the bodybuilding world to train low frequency, and a body part once a week is very common among the current crop of bodybuilders. No one is doing any research that has much bearing on bodybuilding progress amongst highly trained people that take drugs.

 

I approach frequency differently. I'm training shoulders on back, chest and shoulder days. I'm training triceps on chest and shoulder days. I'm training biceps on back days. Of course, they are getting work on other days too. Powerlifters can tear biceps tendons on deadlifts.

 

 Your clock and my clock are different. I know when I'm shot and I'm no longer getting anything from my workout, and that doesn't happen until about 1.5 hours in my case, and sometimes longer. It depends on energy expended and how much energy reserves I have. I could train abs and calves after a 1.5-hour workout and still get full benefit because they don't tax the body much.  I know when the moment arrives that I'm wasting my time. That can come earlier too. If it does happen and I haven't finished what I want to do, I stop. We're all different and our level of fitness comes into play too.

The trend is reversing if you read up on the bodybuilding forums, and if you read up on the current research coming out.  I noticed this trend a while back they are all suggesting higher frequency. The only ones who don't do that are the huge guys who are a lot stronger then you and me. If you are a lot stronger and lifting a lot of weight you need more time to recover that is why.

 

Yea I think our clock of then we are shot is different usually with me its the 1 hour mark, i feel i just can't come up with the right intensity anymore to progress. 

[robblok]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

Here's a very interesting video. This guy started out at about 220 lbs and decided he wanted to cut down for a natural bodybuilding contest. He won, but the interesting thing is he ended up at 143 lbs on stage. He was amazed at how low he had to go to become totally ripped. When he started he thought he'd be ripped at 190, then 180, then 170... still not ripped enough to compete.

 

 

OH yes I know that feeling the lower i go with my diet the more i realize i have to go even lower. I seen this with others too that is why a real good estimate of fat would be useful. 

[robblok]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

LOL> As usual, I'm missing your point? Really?

 

I understand your point very well. I'm suggesting your obsessing about your strength levels, thinking that if you bench a few reps less you're losing muscle mass. At the end of the day, you'll lose what you're going to lose on your diet and an extreme cardio regime, irrespective of what you can bench. All you're doing is adding anxiety. I was suggesting that you take the load off your mind by letting go and just doing something different.

 

It's beside the point, but seeing as you mentioned that I "hate the bench press" I thought I should make this point

 

... just because I don't do flat bench press doesn't mean I hate it. It means I've found that it is no good for me at this point in my life. Some exercises made the cut - others have been cast aside. What you don't know, and what I haven't told you, is that I do incline bench AND incline DB. Incline bench is, in fact, my 3rd chest exercise out of 3 and I ALWAYS do barbell chest work last. Why? It might seem counterintuitive to someone like you who is obsessed with performance and numbers, but I do it last on purpose so that I DON'T use as much weight and focus more on what the muscles are doing rather than how much they are pressing. Quite literally I don't give a damn how much weight is on the bar because I've already done at least 8 sets of other chest exercises before I do BB inclines. Depending on how hard I hit the other exercises, which of course varies from workout to workout, that can vary quite a bit in terms of weight and reps on the final exercise - Incline BB. What I end up with is a great chest workout despite the numbers. It's just a more organic and intuitive way to train. I've been where you are. I was stuck in the bench press groove for decades as most people are. It's a hard habit to break. It's the very reason why Monday is the "International Chest Day" in gyms around the world.

 

 

My technique is not going to change so my strength levels are a indication of muscle mass as they do relate to each-other. Its not an obsession its an indication. That you don't believe this that is up to you. A few reps won't mean much but if i see i really need to take weight of the bar its an indication of going backwards. I have no anxiety about it you might THINK so as so often you THINK you know how i am. I see it purely as an indication. Today... no training.. second time i have had night sweats and feel totally sore the next day. I normally (unless i change programs) don't have that much muscle soreness. Now I have plus feeling weak. I think my fears are justified about over training and again your numbers in bench going down is a good indication of that. 

 

Its just my whole feeling the last weeks that I am feeling more shot (with some good days in between). I just try to make the best of it. .

 

Different exercises work different for different people you still seem to think that what works for you should work for all. I have long since change that mindset. I listen to my body to see what exercises i respond well too and what ones i don't. Many people were raving about bend over rows, tried them for quite a time to give them a fair chance.. but one arm rows work better for me. That is just how things personally are. Bench works good for me I at times mix it up change the order and such. Right now I don't too much so i keep keep my indicator good. 

 

You can't get bigger without getting stronger size and strength are related. You might think differently but science says otherwise. I am sure your going to come up with examples of good bodybuilders and skinny powerlifters but that is not how it works. Because you should compare within a person. If a person can suddenly (after having done squat of a while and perfected his technique already). Can do 20 kg more while doing reps you can rest assure he has gained size too not just strength. If my bicep curls would go up with 10 kg (no chance in hell) I am sure my arms would be bigger too as before. Size and strength relate. 

[poanoi]

the professionals that were coaching me preached "Change" before obama did,

their opinion was hi/lo tempo should be changed just as weights,

and just as positions, the body should never be given the opportunity to settle

for  a routine

 

on definition, i went down to 75 kg lol,

everyone thought it was fugly tho,

i wont be doing that again

[alfieconn]

Regarding the Farmer's Carries, how much time are you spending per workout and how many times a week !

Interesting that when talking about Cardio works out's no one ever mentions Boxing training I.e. pad work or bag work any thoughts would be appreciated !

 

 

[tropo]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

OH yes I know that feeling the lower i go with my diet the more i realize i have to go even lower. I seen this with others too that is why a real good estimate of fat would be useful. 

There's no way this guy went from 220 lbs to 143 lbs just by losing fat though. There's more to it, but if you have a look at his contest photo (there's a snapshot in the video), he was shredded. Maybe you didn't watch the video, but he did exactly what you're trying to do, although a bit more extreme as he was getting prepared for a bodybuilding contest. He went through exactly the same mental game - he thought he had to get to a certain weight to be ripped, and when he got there he wasn't happy and had to keep going lower.

[tropo]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

My technique is not going to change so my strength levels are a indication of muscle mass as they do relate to each-other. Its not an obsession its an indication. That you don't believe this that is up to you. A few reps won't mean much but if i see i really need to take weight of the bar its an indication of going backwards. I have no anxiety about it you might THINK so as so often you THINK you know how i am. I see it purely as an indication. Today... no training.. second time i have had night sweats and feel totally sore the next day. I normally (unless i change programs) don't have that much muscle soreness. Now I have plus feeling weak. I think my fears are justified about over training and again your numbers in bench going down is a good indication of that. 

 

Its just my whole feeling the last weeks that I am feeling more shot (with some good days in between). I just try to make the best of it. .

 

Different exercises work different for different people you still seem to think that what works for you should work for all. I have long since change that mindset. I listen to my body to see what exercises i respond well too and what ones i don't. Many people were raving about bend over rows, tried them for quite a time to give them a fair chance.. but one arm rows work better for me. That is just how things personally are. Bench works good for me I at times mix it up change the order and such. Right now I don't too much so i keep keep my indicator good. 

 

You can't get bigger without getting stronger size and strength are related. You might think differently but science says otherwise. I am sure your going to come up with examples of good bodybuilders and skinny powerlifters but that is not how it works. Because you should compare within a person. If a person can suddenly (after having done squat of a while and perfected his technique already). Can do 20 kg more while doing reps you can rest assure he has gained size too not just strength. If my bicep curls would go up with 10 kg (no chance in hell) I am sure my arms would be bigger too as before. Size and strength relate. 

As I can see you're starting to get emotional about my responses, I'll cut this short. You're only really interested in a cheer squad (fan club).  

 

Yes, I do believe you're obsessed about strength and numbers. It's pretty obvious from reading your voluminous posts that you're an obsessive type of personality. That's not an insult, but an observation - take it how you like. Many of the world's most successful people are obsessive. Arnold was too... but it can get you into trouble because there's a lot of emotions and anxiety driving it.

 

Here's an example. I can take days off and not stress about it. I don't even stress over a week. I never stress about time off. Other people are sh***ting themselves if they take a day off. You find it so hard to take time off you're trying to convince yourself it's ok and good... one can sense your anxiety.

 

Now you're saying you THINK you're overtrained. Wow! I didn't see that coming.

[tropo]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

The trend is reversing if you read up on the bodybuilding forums, and if you read up on the current research coming out.  I noticed this trend a while back they are all suggesting higher frequency. The only ones who don't do that are the huge guys who are a lot stronger then you and me. If you are a lot stronger and lifting a lot of weight you need more time to recover that is why.

 

Yea I think our clock of then we are shot is different usually with me its the 1 hour mark, i feel i just can't come up with the right intensity anymore to progress. 

That's the thing. People with a short clock can't grasp why people with a longer clock can keep going, so instead, they suggest the people on the longer clock are wasting their time and only going through the motions or suggesting the reason why they keep going is that they are not training intensely enough. If you don't superset and rest long, you're not doing much in an hour, that's for sure. An hour doesn't feel long for me and I superset throughout my workout.

[bkk6060]

On 5/31/2018 at 12:53 PM, robblok said:

@ trans

 

and I (think) they are on HRT too. 

Yah think??

 

Some good info. on here I just hope those of you on these HRT's are getting frequent blood tests.

I am not trying to be an AH and I know some hate to hear this because it does give results, but there are many lawsuits regarding this stuff as being unsafe. And in the US you need a special prescription now same as getting a narcotic.  Of course, the right Doctor can prescribe anything.

I had a friend who had a stroke (partial paralysis) and another who had a heart attack, which Doctor's attributed to it.

 

I personally was on it, but my Hemoglobin went through the roof. 

Just give blood you say?

Sure, but at least in my country when you give blood they check your Hemoglobin and if it's high, no blood draw.

My Doctor had to provide a special prescription for a therapy blood draw.

But, mine would shoot up so quickly the Doc said I would probably have a stoke or a heart attack if I stayed on it, so I quit.

 

Just some info. I know everybody is different many have no side effects.

Working out is great but it can become an obsession and addiction.  

I know many of you hate that also just saying, I think there is a happy medium which is where I am now.  If I have an extra cup of coffee I don't let it ruin my day.

 

[GarryP]

4 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

  If I have an extra cup of coffee I don't let it ruin my day.

 

But it may ruin my night. 

[transam]

11 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yah think??

 

Some good info. on here I just hope those of you on these HRT's are getting frequent blood tests.

I am not trying to be an AH and I know some hate to hear this because it does give results, but there are many lawsuits regarding this stuff as being unsafe. And in the US you need a special prescription now same as getting a narcotic.  Of course, the right Doctor can prescribe anything.

I had a friend who had a stroke (partial paralysis) and another who had a heart attack, which Doctor's attributed to it.

 

I personally was on it, but my Hemoglobin went through the roof. 

Just give blood you say?

Sure, but at least in my country when you give blood they check your Hemoglobin and if it's high, no blood draw.

My Doctor had to provide a special prescription for a therapy blood draw.

But, mine would shoot up so quickly the Doc said I would probably have a stoke or a heart attack if I stayed on it, so I quit.

 

Just some info. I know everybody is different many have no side effects.

Working out is great but it can become an obsession and addiction.  

I know many of you hate that also just saying, I think there is a happy medium which is where I am now.  If I have an extra cup of coffee I don't let it ruin my day.

 

I for one have never been on "stuff", only N2O which l gave my car....

[tropo]

12 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yah think??

 

Some good info. on here I just hope those of you on these HRT's are getting frequent blood tests.

I am not trying to be an AH and I know some hate to hear this because it does give results, but there are many lawsuits regarding this stuff as being unsafe. And in the US you need a special prescription now same as getting a narcotic.  Of course, the right Doctor can prescribe anything.

I had a friend who had a stroke (partial paralysis) and another who had a heart attack, which Doctor's attributed to it.

 

I personally was on it, but my Hemoglobin went through the roof. 

Just give blood you say?

Sure, but at least in my country when you give blood they check your Hemoglobin and if it's high, no blood draw.

My Doctor had to provide a special prescription for a therapy blood draw.

But, mine would shoot up so quickly the Doc said I would probably have a stoke or a heart attack if I stayed on it, so I quit.

 

Just some info. I know everybody is different many have no side effects.

Working out is great but it can become an obsession and addiction.  

I know many of you hate that also just saying, I think there is a happy medium which is where I am now.  If I have an extra cup of coffee I don't let it ruin my day.

 

You're talking about hematocrit. Yes, that can be a concern and is very important to check. That could be a huge problem if one doesn't drink enough fluids. Dehydration raises hematocrit.

 

Attributing a heart attack to HRT is a bit of a stretch though. About 25% of people die from heart attacks (1 in 4 deaths) and most are NOT on HRT. 

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

You're talking about hematocrit. Yes, that can be a concern and is very important to check. That could be a huge problem if one doesn't drink enough fluids. Dehydration raises hematocrit.

 

Attributing a heart attack to HRT is a bit of a stretch though. About 25% of people die from heart attacks (1 in 4 deaths) and most are NOT on HRT. 

Yes, in fact there are studies that say long term use of it can reduce heart attacks.

I am just explaining my experience, the side effect I had, and Doctors (30 years experience) comments to me.

[tropo]

7 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, in fact there are studies that say long term use of it can reduce heart attacks.

I am just explaining my experience, the side effect I had, and Doctors (30 years experience) comments to me.

I appreciate the reminder. I too have had high hematocrit in the past and used to donate blood to reduce it. It's only 100 baht here for a CBC - time for another LOL. My last test was good, but that can change and it's worth keeping a very close eye on it.

 

 

[robblok]

On 6/1/2018 at 9:38 AM, alfieconn said:

Regarding the Farmer's Carries, how much time are you spending per workout and how many times a week !

Interesting that when talking about Cardio works out's no one ever mentions Boxing training I.e. pad work or bag work any thoughts would be appreciated !

 

 

I was doing them 7 days a week 20 min a day, now i gone down a bit as i fear overtraining.

[robblok]

On 6/1/2018 at 2:54 PM, tropo said:

As I can see you're starting to get emotional about my responses, I'll cut this short. You're only really interested in a cheer squad (fan club).  

 

Yes, I do believe you're obsessed about strength and numbers. It's pretty obvious from reading your voluminous posts that you're an obsessive type of personality. That's not an insult, but an observation - take it how you like. Many of the world's most successful people are obsessive. Arnold was too... but it can get you into trouble because there's a lot of emotions and anxiety driving it.

 

Here's an example. I can take days off and not stress about it. I don't even stress over a week. I never stress about time off. Other people are sh***ting themselves if they take a day off. You find it so hard to take time off you're trying to convince yourself it's ok and good... one can sense your anxiety.

 

Now you're saying you THINK you're overtrained. Wow! I didn't see that coming.

No I am not, just not interested too much in someone who thinks he knows it all and thinks how someone else is feeling about a decrease in strength. You assume an awfully lot about me and yes that could get some reaction from me. Who do you think knows his body better.. you yourself or someone else.  Again you draw conclusions based on arguments we had in the past I told you countless times I don't care about the numbers per se but as an indication. You seem to think that anyone who does not do as you does not know what he is doing. I don't mind comments i like them as often you can learn from them. Maybe you should open up a bit and learn more yourself too. 

 

I am obsessed about numbers because numbers are my job and numbers are clear and give a good idea about how things are going. I use number as an indication, you seem (i can't be sure as i cant look in your head unlike you think you know others) a far more intuitive kind of guy. That is just a difference in how people keep track and keeping track is important. There is a difference between being obsessed about strength and using its number to see if you get over trained or your doing the wrong things. You don't seem to be able to see the difference because in your made up mind I am obsessed about strength. If that was the case id would never diet down and would be constantly on a far lower rep program as I normally am. 

 

I take days off without problem too, just did not do it much for the loaded carries i like routine but as you know I won't progress much anymore so i am in maintenance phase. You know and I know that maintenance requires far less effort (sessions) as building. So I don't really worry about missing a session or a few sessions. I now taken a bit of time off 3 days so far from loaded carries to feel better. Will pick them up again on Monday and see how it goes. 

 

I could have been getting sick, could be over training. I only know that I had a fever and was feeling weak. I don't like feeling weak low on energy. I just started to notice it a few weeks back  that i was getting more and more bad days. Just trying to figure out what it was as in general over training is rare. As for you did not see that one coming, I did see it coming or was / am worried about it and use strength ans an indication of it as its well known that strength drops during over training. Fatigue not feeling full of energy can mean many things combine that with loss of strength it COULD mean over training or i just caught something. Feeling weak is a feeling.. cant quantify it.. but strength you can measure. I am more obsessed to use your words with things I can quantify clearly. 

 

 

[robblok]

On 6/1/2018 at 2:58 PM, tropo said:

That's the thing. People with a short clock can't grasp why people with a longer clock can keep going, so instead, they suggest the people on the longer clock are wasting their time and only going through the motions or suggesting the reason why they keep going is that they are not training intensely enough. If you don't superset and rest long, you're not doing much in an hour, that's for sure. An hour doesn't feel long for me and I superset throughout my workout.

 

Studies have been out there with cortisol measurements about the hour cutoff so its based on science. But I don't think everyone is 100% the same so i can accept it works for some and does not for others. Unlike you I am not as locked in my way or the high way. I accept that people are different and respond differently to the same stimuli from training. I do know cortisol is a bad thing for muscle gain will it destroy all your possible gains... I don't know hard to know for sure unless your training identical twins and put them on different programs and then compare. (cant see anyone doing a study like that)

 

I could say but Tropo you have not been making any progress are you sure you are not wasting your training, but like me your close to your potential and maybe even going down (age gets to us all). But if i wanted to be argumentative i could tell you given from your progress your program is not working. (would mean the same for my program as I am not making progress as in extra muscle mass either). But I don't think like that, i think you got a pretty good idea of when you are shot and when you are not. Same applies to me. 

 

As for volume of your training style and my training style could be the same as volume is reps times weight. Its quite probable you could do more weight if you did not super set so one variable would change. Would that make up for the less exercises not sure as when I go higher reps I do more volume for an exercise as when i go lower reps. Still I would not be like you supersetting all the time (unless you mix other stuff up) your doing one training program too long and I think you agree that change needs to be made every 2-3 months. Doing the same rep range / same exercise order / same exercises too long will lead to stagnation. I am sure you know that and probably make some changes. 

 

On the other hand maybe whatever you or I do it won't change much anymore as we are not really building extra muscle.. more preserving what we have and hoping for some extra muscle or maybe delaying a downward trend. If that is the case tough luck for us. 

[robblok]

On 6/1/2018 at 9:38 AM, alfieconn said:

Regarding the Farmer's Carries, how much time are you spending per workout and how many times a week !

Interesting that when talking about Cardio works out's no one ever mentions Boxing training I.e. pad work or bag work any thoughts would be appreciated !

 

 

Boxing training.. any cardio workout in general works so if you like pad work or bag work why not do it. In the end its all about what you LIKE doing. If you like doing something its easier to do it and keep it up. In the end if you keep doing something it will pay off more as finding the perfect exercise.. hating it and giving up after a while.

 

You won't get ripped from cardio alone unless your diet is spot on.  

[robblok]

On 6/1/2018 at 2:40 PM, tropo said:

There's no way this guy went from 220 lbs to 143 lbs just by losing fat though. There's more to it, but if you have a look at his contest photo (there's a snapshot in the video), he was shredded. Maybe you didn't watch the video, but he did exactly what you're trying to do, although a bit more extreme as he was getting prepared for a bodybuilding contest. He went through exactly the same mental game - he thought he had to get to a certain weight to be ripped, and when he got there he wasn't happy and had to keep going lower.

Remember how i lost a lot of weight before so I have the experience already.. was the same as now you think once your at a certain level you will be ripped but usually your not. So not much difference there this time. I have set a weight i wanted to reach and maybe its enough maybe its not. 

 

Too many variables to really be sure at any time, like how much muscle did I gain between the last time i lost weight and now. How much extra water am I holding because of the creatine and salt (was not on creatine back then). I can only make a guess and see if its right or not. My experience is that I always have to go lower than expected. 

 

Its the same for most if you read the stories at the bodybuilding boards most have to change their target weight goals. Some because they lost muscle by going high rep low weight training others because they misjudged their leanness. 

 

Plus we discussed it before pictures can be manipulated giving you the idea your not ripped while you are actually close to someone who looks better just because poses better, and has the right light maybe dropped a lot of water before a photo shoot. I seen pics of a guy who was ripped in full sunlight, it was a lot less impressive and pumped and not pumped makes a difference. 

[robblok]

Back at it after 5 days of not doing any loaded carries, but did workout yesterday and last night had a really bad night. Loads of sweating and waking up. Not fun at all, still not sure what it is. I ate more the in the weekend to fuel up (shows in my weight too). Absolutely no problems with night sweats in the weekend. 

 

Did the walk for 5 1/2 rounds and it went quite ok, just can't figure the sweating at night out. Too many possible reasons, real flue, over-training, hormonal ect. 

 

Will just monitor the situation and see and of course speculate about what it could be. 

 

Will be trying some weighted pull ups (if i can manage) today. I had expected that by just doing wide grip pull ups with my own body weight I would get stronger at them. But I really never gotten much stronger then 4 x 6 in good form.