High speed rail: Pattaya to Bangkok in well under an hour - around 300 baht!

[sandyf]

On 3/28/2018 at 1:22 PM, sandrabbit said:

Also just noticed it stops at Laem Chabang not Sri Racha .........

People are putting too much on the mickey mouse drawing in the OP. The plans showed an elevated track above the existing track which runs through Chonburi, Sri Ratcha and Pattaya with the new line terminating at U Tapao.

Since they did the underpass, Pattaya railway station has benefited from some road signs, that will be the next complaint, too far from the hotels.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

 

The original article is slightly misleading as it describes the line in terms of being an airports link from DMK to BKK and UTP, with other stops between. This would be a journey of around 240km (following the route on the map).

 

However, the journey time quoted, of 45 minutes, is from UTP to "the capital" (not the city centre and not the airports).

 

If the blue marker on the map is Bangkok boundary the journey to UTP would be around 150km and (AFAIK) achievable within the stated time.

 

 

My google show DM to UTP as being around 180Km, and that is by road, the track south of Swampy is fairly straight which would knock a few Ks off. If I remember right the plans showed the line to run from DM,  Suvarnabhumi, Chachoengsao, Chonburi, Sri Ratcha, Pattaya and UTP, which would mean only 5 stops on the way. The estimated journey time at this point in time can only be a ballpark figure, still too many unknowns.

Strikes me that some are trying to make an issue out of nothing.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, CLW said:

Therefore I would recommend to enhance the existing track as the best solution.

I don't think that is on the cards. They have only recently finished enhancing the existing track, I live within a stones throw. All they did was lay a second track alongside the original and I think it is the old narrow gauge.

I would agree that there is merit in your suggestion and that they should have thought a bit more before doing what they did. 

There was a new limited stop weekend service supposed to have started on 17th March for a trial using better passenger coaches but not heard any more about that.

[The Teacher]

On 28/03/2018 at 10:43 AM, Wiggy said:

I hope the trains don't cross any roads. Most people around here can't see a train coming at 50kph, let alone 250.

But it's a pipe dream anyway, never happen

[wpcoe]

19 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

The original article is slightly misleading as it describes the line in terms of being an airports link from DMK to BKK and UTP, with other stops between. This would be a journey of around 240km (following the route on the map).

 

However, the journey time quoted, of 45 minutes, is from UTP to "the capital" (not the city centre and not the airports).

 

If the blue marker on the map is Bangkok boundary the journey to UTP would be around 150km and (AFAIK) achievable within the stated time.

Aha!  Now *that* explanation I can buy.  Granted it makes no *practical* sense, but that makes it much more likely to be the true explanation.

 

It also explains the blue marker on the map.  It's not a stop, it's a boundary designation.

[Bastos60]

5 hours ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

yes an ICE  needs 3km  if it is an emergency break,I'm not talking about emergency breaks,maybe you have a look on the map how short the distances are,anyway never mind

A highspeed train doesn't necessarily have to run at full speed at every part of the track. If a short distance doesn't allow high speed the trains run at just above normal speeds of regular trains since it is not economical to accelerate to high speeds for a distance too short to justify the cost. 

Besides every high speed train starts decelerating between 8 - 12 km before the next station. And braking distance depends on other factors like weight and tracks.

[Srikcir]

On 3/28/2018 at 8:58 PM, champers said:

I am sure that the bulk of the costs will come from foreign investors. Big delegations from Japan and Russia have already visited specifically for gaining investment for the Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC). Others will surely follow. The rail scheme is a loss leader for the huge investments and spending that the EEC will bring.

That is the theory, I believe.

I expect the Thai government will get at best 20% participation by private domestic partners. For the remaining 80% the government might contribute 30% and for the balance of 50% ask the train supplier country (ie., Japan, France, China) to loan funds to the Thai government.

[Justfine]

9 hours ago, Bastos60 said:

A highspeed train doesn't necessarily have to run at full speed at every part of the track. If a short distance doesn't allow high speed the trains run at just above normal speeds of regular trains since it is not economical to accelerate to high speeds for a distance too short to justify the cost. 

Besides every high speed train starts decelerating between 8 - 12 km before the next station. And braking distance depends on other factors like weight and tracks.

Most people can handle 1 to 2 hour travel times. After that it becomes tedious so building an expensive network to cover 160-200km seems like a massive waste of money.

 

A train that can travel 100kph is plenty fast enough.

 

 

[elgenon]

I hope it will be run by a private company and not the State Railway.

 

How long will it take to the station and from the station to my hotel? Can the whole thing beat a private taxi?

Though two taxis and the train should beat the taxi price. More hassle though.

 

 

[essox essox]

On 28/03/2018 at 1:22 PM, sandrabbit said:

Also just noticed it stops at Laem Chabang not Sri Racha .........

does this make a big difference to your travel arrangements ??

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 2:27 PM, Daveyh said:

I can see a major tragedy brewing here if they are going to use the existing rail track albeit with new high speed rails. It crosses so many unmanned crossings from Utapo to Bangkok & if the signals/barriers fail to stop impatient motorcyclists from crossing during the warning of a train, approaching crossing at 250kph .......... hmmm! I can see real danger here until they get all the traffic laws enforced with heavy fines & jail terms, plus who is going to tackle the "mindset"of drivers? Driving responsibly here just doesn't happen. I don't think Thailand is ready for this. Safety barriers will need to be placed all along the track on both sides where it's possible for motorcycles to cross etc ........ not viable at all. An improved railway system would be more beneficial & definitely a mandatory speed limit. All this speed etc nonsense is a receipe for disaster ............... 

Obviously didn't read my previous post about that subject. Hi speed railways are either elevated or the roads go over them.

Hitting a vehicle at 200kph would be like a bomb going off.

 

Having said that, the other "hi speed' rail projects have, apparently, been downgraded from "high speed", so it might end up as a normal speed train with nicer carriages, or not.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, elgenon said:

I hope it will be run by a private company and not the State Railway.

 

How long will it take to the station and from the station to my hotel? Can the whole thing beat a private taxi?

Though two taxis and the train should beat the taxi price. More hassle though.

 

 

Pattaya station is far from down town, so one will be extorted by the taxis. There is no regular 10 baht route near it.

Far cheaper to take the existing bus service and only 2 hours.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 5:49 PM, HLover said:

 

Yes, to compliment the English language article.  Wise and sage advice.

Anyway, your welcome: 

So, any idea what the blue blob represents?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 5:55 PM, SupermarineS6B said:

Ha ha, by the time they get around to building this they'll be no reason to go to Pattaya as the Junta will have sanitised it by that time.....     " I've got a good idea, let's close all the night life down then build a new train system that runs there"   mmmmmmmmmmmmm

It's NOT a train TO Pattaya. It just stops at Pattaya on its way to Rayong.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, sandyf said:

 

There was a new limited stop weekend service supposed to have started on 17th March for a trial using better passenger coaches but not heard any more about that.

https://www.pattayaunlimited.com/first-bangkok-to-pattaya-weekend-train-at-pattaya-train-station/

[CLW]

Pattaya station is far from down town, so one will be extorted by the taxis. There is no regular 10 baht route near it.
Far cheaper to take the existing bus service and only 2 hours.

Usually there is a feeder bus to and from the station.
But in Thailand... maybe.... not?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, CLW said:

Usually there is a feeder bus to and from the station.
But in Thailand... maybe.... not?

Swampy was open for years before they built the airport train, and even then they managed to mess it up.

They don't need a high speed train anyway. Just extend the airport train to U Tapao. If people want a faster trip they can take a taxi.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, wpcoe said:

Aha!  Now *that* explanation I can buy.  Granted it makes no *practical* sense, but that makes it much more likely to be the true explanation.

 

It also explains the blue marker on the map.  It's not a stop, it's a boundary designation.

Under the high-speed rail project, a 21km-long route will link Phaya Thai station and Don Mueang airport.

A longer section of the tracks will stretch 170km and run from Suvarnabhumi airport to U-Tapao airport in Rayong province.

"The government included the Airport Rail Link in this high-speed rail project to help cut losses," Mr Kanit said.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/thailand-approves-high-speed-rail-link-connecting-three-international-airports

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Swampy was open for years before they built the airport train, and even then they managed to mess it up.

They don't need a high speed train anyway. Just extend the airport train to U Tapao. If people want a faster trip they can take a taxi.

In theory they do not need to do anything. The existing train stops at Lat Krabang where you can interchange with the airport link. The existing train is one hour from Pattaya to Chonburi which is about as fast as any road transport. The problem comes after, it stops every 3 or 4 Km between Chachoengsao and the airport, and the major factor, it only runs once a day.

[balo]

The taxi mafia wont like this , be prepared for a bomb if this project see daylight. 

[neitmoj]

If the map is correct, this (supposedly) high speed track will follow the existing track designed and built 100 years ago for trains traveling at far lower speeds. Real high speed trains traveling at 250 km/h or higher (e.g., Japan, France) need dedicated tracks built as straight as possible and totally free of obstacles (e.g., level crossings). Besides, Chonburi and Sri Racha are 22 km apart, and Sri Racha and Pattaya 27 km. No train could possibly reach such speeds and screech to a halt again over such short distances. What the planners probably have in mind is something similar to Malaysia's new ETS trains, which peak at 140 km/h (in straight, flat sections only). Better than the existing snail jobs, but high-speed it ain't.

[Justfine]

140 clicks is plenty fast.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, neitmoj said:

If the map is correct, this (supposedly) high speed track will follow the existing track designed and built 100 years ago for trains traveling at far lower speeds. Real high speed trains traveling at 250 km/h or higher (e.g., Japan, France) need dedicated tracks built as straight as possible and totally free of obstacles (e.g., level crossings). Besides, Chonburi and Sri Racha are 22 km apart, and Sri Racha and Pattaya 27 km. No train could possibly reach such speeds and screech to a halt again over such short distances. What the planners probably have in mind is something similar to Malaysia's new ETS trains, which peak at 140 km/h (in straight, flat sections only). Better than the existing snail jobs, but high-speed it ain't.

"the existing track designed and built 100 years ago for trains traveling at far lower speeds."  - bit of an exaggeration, the second track has only been down a couple of years.

[wpcoe]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, any idea what the blue blob represents?

I think the most likely explanation is: "...it's a boundary designation."

 

On 3/28/2018 at 9:21 PM, chickenslegs said:

The original article is slightly misleading as it describes the line in terms of being an airports link from DMK to BKK and UTP, with other stops between. This would be a journey of around 240km (following the route on the map).

 

However, the journey time quoted, of 45 minutes, is from UTP to "the capital" (not the city centre and not the airports).

 

If the blue marker on the map is Bangkok boundary the journey to UTP would be around 150km and (AFAIK) achievable within the stated time.

 

23 hours ago, wpcoe said:

Aha!  Now *that* explanation I can buy.  Granted it makes no *practical* sense, but that makes it much more likely to be the true explanation.

 

It also explains the blue marker on the map.  It's not a stop, it's a boundary designation.

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by wpcoe

[SunsetT]

The map shows it continuing to Rayong.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, sandyf said:

"the existing track designed and built 100 years ago for trains traveling at far lower speeds."  - bit of an exaggeration, the second track has only been down a couple of years.

I think he's referring to the trackbed. If they added more trains every day, at better times, it's probably get good patronage even at normal speeds, without the need to spend billions on an entirely new system.

However, some of us know why new projects are proposed, even if they never come to fruition.

[CLW]

I think he's referring to the trackbed. If they added more trains every day, at better times, it's probably get good patronage even at normal speeds, without the need to spend billions on an entirely new system.
However, some of us know why new projects are proposed, even if they never come to fruition.

Hopewell that best or worst example...

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think he's referring to the trackbed. If they added more trains every day, at better times, it's probably get good patronage even at normal speeds, without the need to spend billions on an entirely new system.

However, some of us know why new projects are proposed, even if they never come to fruition.

Even the original line is nowhere near 100 years old, not sure when they introduced concrete sleepers and seamless track.

I wouldn't disagree that the existing track couldn't be utilised a bit better but we should remember that the double track is fairly recent and I certainly wouldn't want to travel a service that was mainly single track. They have now introduced additional trains at the weekend, small steps.

The other factor is that it is only passenger service that is in short supply, goods trains go past about every 20 minutes. It was supposed to be planned to connect Rayong to Burma and if that were to come to fruition then the demand for the freight service would rise.

[essox essox]

On 28/03/2018 at 1:22 PM, sandrabbit said:

Also just noticed it stops at Laem Chabang not Sri Racha .........

does it matter ??

[essox essox]

On 30/03/2018 at 10:35 AM, CLW said:

Usually there is a feeder bus to and from the station.
But in Thailand... maybe.... not?

NOT this is thailand ....