Synthetic oil.

[malt25]

Hi again all.

Just purchased the Aerox. What's the general consensus on synthetic oil ?  Worth the expense ? I intend keeping the bike for quite some time. What Km's to change over to synthetic oil ? How often for oil changes with mainly sealed road riding ?

Thanks all.

[jackdd]

Just look in the manual, it will tell you about the service intervals and which oil to use. Until your warranty is over you will probably service it at the dealer anyway, they also do the oil change, so nothing to think about for now.

If you think synthetic oil is worth it after your warranty is over you can choose to pay something like 140THB instead of 80THB for an oil change every one or two years at a road side garage and go for the synthetic oil

[malt25]

Hi Jack.

Thanks for the reply. What is your opinion about the synthetic oil ? Irrespective of cost, is there a long term benefit ?

Oil change every one or two years ? I realize oil changes would mostly depend on distance traveled, but to me 12 -24 months seems a long time between changes.

Thanks again for getting back to me.

[mogandave]

I am a fan of synthetic oil, but would also advise checking your manual. I always follow the extreme service guidelines.

When you take it for service, just tell them you want to go with synthetic.

Oil is not something to skimp on...either quality or frequency of changes.

[malt25]

Thanks Dave. I thought so, just wanted to confirm.

[papa al]

16 hours ago, jackdd said:

Just look in the manual, it will tell you about the service intervals and which oil to use. Until your warranty is over you will probably service it at the dealer anyway, they also do the oil change, so nothing to think about for now.

If you think synthetic oil is worth it after your warranty is over you can choose to pay something like 140THB instead of 80THB for an oil change every one or two years at a road side garage and go for the synthetic oil

For years papa pays `120-150baht per o/c on his numerous small bikes,

not synthetic,

whatever brand the shop was using.

 

But, ... run ceeber150 at high power settings a lot.

With dino got 32,000km before

B2700 ring/piston-job needed.

[smoke]

Recently switched [at 42,000km] to Shell Advance 4t 100% synthetic for her.

[I-liter = B320 installed]

This is an ester based [group-5] lubricant,

synthesised from natural gas.

Note: 'Full synthetic'  [group-3] oil is not the same,

derived from petroleum and markedly inferior. 

Group-5 is used in jets and turbo race engines.

This is the good stuff boys.

Will get back to you in a few years to report results.

 

But yea, putting around on your Aerox, 

doesn't matter.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by papa al

[papa al]

Thanks for starting this tread.

These last few months

papa has been online researching

the slippery subject of synthetic oils.

Historical note:

It was invented out of necessity by the Nazis !!

.

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by papa al

[CMKiwi]

So the Nazis didn't just use gas for barbecues ?

 

History in the teaching/learning.

[canthai55]

Changed mine on PCX and CRF at 5000 km. Went Full Syn - Honda Pro Tech Ultra 10W30

Which is a Jaso MA oil https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

Any full syn will be perfectly adequate. I change every 5000 km. Overkill to some, but as it only uses less than 2 liters, cheap insurance.

[keithpa]

Im a hydraulic fitter. .. Natural rubber compounds are not suitable for exposure to petroleum based oils . Synthetic rubber is not suitable for exposure to vegetable oils.Know what your seals are made out of before you chose what what oil to use. Or,  take everybody else advice and keep your fingers crossed.

[malt25]

16 minutes ago, keithpa said:

Im a hydraulic fitter. .. Natural rubber compounds are not suitable for exposure to petroleum based oils . Synthetic rubber is not suitable for exposure to vegetable oils.Know what your seals are made out of before you chose what what oil to use. Or,  take everybody else advice and keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks for that Keith. Just one point I'd make in return to your reply. I'm inquiring about the benefit of synthetic oil in a new bike. This would indicate I'm looking for advice, a Novus so to say.  Considering this, do you think I'd have the slightest idea of what the seals are made from ? My best guess would be... fur, bones, blood, blubber & the like. Not sure if said seals like synthetic or mineral oil.

[keithpa]

22 minutes ago, malt25 said:

Thanks for that Keith. Just one point I'd make in return to your reply. I'm inquiring about the benefit of synthetic oil in a new bike. This would indicate I'm looking for advice, a Novus so to say.  Considering this, do you think I'd have the slightest idea of what the seals are made from ? My best guess would be... fur, bones, blood, blubber & the like. Not sure if said seals like synthetic or mineral oil.

You are either A a fool or B funny. (add to damage to seals, damage to O rings. Make something of that)

[malt25]

4 minutes ago, keithpa said:

You are either A a fool or B funny. (add to damage to seals, damage to O rings. Make something of that)

Ok, try this.... Where I come from calamari is often referred to as O-rings. I'm not sure but would hazard a guess seals would enjoy a feed of O-rings. Not sure if said seals prefer natural rubber or the synthetic variety. Maybe you have intimate knowledge on the topic ?

No, not a fool by any stretch of the imagination. Why would you go into the compound structure of seals & rubber & O-rings in reply to a very basic question about advice re use of synthetic oil V mineral oil ?

So to be sure we're on the same page, I'll pose the same question, reworded. 

"Would it be possible for some recommendations as to the benefit, if any, of using synthetic oil to using a mineral based oil in a small Yamaha motor ?"

I don't consider any factory appointed dealer, even here in LOS, would offer for sale, or install any oil, mineral or synthetic, in a bike if were not compatible with the said seals, walruses' or even, dare I suggest, penguins !!! 

Oh, for what it's worth, I'm quite happy to play your game until a Mod comes along & closes the topic. It appears Mods don't possess a great sense of humor in these situations.

Did you hear about the penguin that walked into the bar ? Bartender asked, did you just blow a seal ? Na, said penguin, just had an ice cream & don't have a tissue to wipe my mouth.

[canthai55]

Any modern engine is perfectly safe with both dinosaur oil or synthetic.

Buna-N is the industry leader in seal material, as it handles almost all petroleum and synthetic lubricants.

Presently the seal industry's most widely used and economical elastomer, Nitrile combines excellent resistance to petroleum-based oils and fuels, silicone greases, hydraulic fluids, water and alcohols, with a good balance of such desirable working properties as low compression set, high tensile strength, and high abrasion resistance.

 

[malt25]

11 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Any modern engine is perfectly safe with both dinosaur oil or synthetic.

Buna-N is the industry leader in seal material, as it handles almost all petroleum and synthetic lubricants.

Presently the seal industry's most widely used and economical elastomer, Nitrile combines excellent resistance to petroleum-based oils and fuels, silicone greases, hydraulic fluids, water and alcohols, with a good balance of such desirable working properties as low compression set, high tensile strength, and high abrasion resistance.

 

Ah.... sounds good to me, BUT, you didn't let us know if you are a hydraulic fitter or not. Sorry Keith, I couldn't help myself.

[Agusts]

I read somewhere that most people recommend using normal oil for the first 1000km of a new bike, original oil inside probably normal oil, change at 500km once with normal and then can go to synthetic oil at 1000km. Something about the engine bed-in period better served with ordinary oil.

 

I read a lot about synthetic oil, check youtube, it has some videos, easy viewing. Basically the synthetic oil keeps its characteristics for a longer period (of usage or just bike not used), so you can easily go 6k km or even 10k (in cars) without oil change, or bike/car not used for a year or longer.

 

So use ordinary oil and change more often or use synthetic and change less often, that's it, don't worry yourself much more than this. Either way you can not do any damage, these new engines are very solid nowadays and can last a life time with no issues......

[keithpa]

2 hours ago, malt25 said:

Ah.... sounds good to me, BUT, you didn't let us know if you are a hydraulic fitter or not. Sorry Keith, I couldn't help myself.

He googled his info, my info came from personal experience, and re my comments about A or B  ,the answer is now all to clear. Over and out. Ive got a life that doesnt revolve around TV.

[papa al]

3 hours ago, keithpa said:

Im a hydraulic fitter. .. Natural rubber compounds are not suitable for exposure to petroleum based oils . Synthetic rubber is not suitable for exposure to vegetable oils.Know what your seals are made out of before you chose what what oil to use. Or,  take everybody else advice and keep your fingers crossed.

Well, Since Mr Honyamakawsuki anticipates petroleum oils in his motos, 

maybe compatible rubber is considered by the engineers.

Only a  wild guess.!

papa has no clue on how to determine seal composition in the bikes.

Didn't even know it was an issue.

But now will worry about vegetable oils & such.

[malt25]

4 hours ago, keithpa said:

He googled his info, my info came from personal experience, and re my comments about A or B  ,the answer is now all to clear. Over and out. Ive got a life that doesnt revolve around TV.

Good to hear. So why did you respond with useless information in the first place ?

[keithpa]

35 minutes ago, malt25 said:

Good to hear. So why did you respond with useless information in the first place ?

Why was it useless info?

 

[canthai55]

I will forthwith cease and desist from using Mazola, soybean oil, palm oil, bean oil, and all types of vegetable oil in any of my bikes.

Sure hope I caught it before I did any damage ! 555

[malt25]

8 hours ago, keithpa said:

Why was it useless info?

 

I'll type this extremely slowly in the hope you might, but highly unlikely, understand. I'm only asking for recommendations on the use of synthetic v mineral oil. I don't give a rat's arse about seals & O-rings.

The question has been answered... Either oil is compatible with modern engine components.

Mods, I'm happy if you choose to close this.

[ktm jeff]

Only time to consider your seals are if running alcohol fuels , or castor oils , such as Castrol R30. I just got misty eyed about my Karting days. Scooter - First oil change 500 - 1000 MK. Second  2000 - 2500 KM. Semi , or Fully synthetic if you plan long term ownership. Every year or 4000 - 5000 KM after that.

[papa al]

11 hours ago, malt25 said:

I'll type this extremely slowly in the hope you might, but highly unlikely, understand. I'm only asking for recommendations on the use of synthetic v mineral oil. I don't give a rat's arse about seals & O-rings.

The question has been answered... Either oil is compatible with modern engine components.

Mods, I'm happy if you choose to close this.

papa thinks someone's feelings got hurt....

[taninthai]

It’s only a little scooter engine not some highly tuned high revving super bike,just stick the Yamaha oil that looks red in colour and comes in clear see through bottle,,that’s what goes in all my scooters.

Edited May 1, 2018 by taninthai

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, taninthai said:

It’s only a little scooter engine not some highly tuned high revving super bike,just stick the Yamaha oil that looks red in colour and comes in clear see through bottle,,that’s what goes in all my scooters.

+1.

Exactly.

It aint rocket science.....

Nor a rocket.....................

Edited May 1, 2018 by thaiguzzi

[keithpa]

4 hours ago, papa al said:

papa thinks someone's feelings got hurt....

And thinks he can tell the mods what to do. God bless his little soul.

[JimShortz]

You could also consider semi-synthetic oil. I use PTT's Challenger semi-synthetic 4T  in My CB300F and change it every 3000km. It's less than B100 per litre from Saengchai Honda shop and seems to get good press. I may be tempted to go full synthetic, but probably overkill in this bike, and decent cheaper oil with frequent changes seems like a good way to protect the engine at very little cost. 

I am in no way going to follow the service intervals recommended in the owners manual - every 12000km. That seems insanely long to me and the oil will be in a terrible state.  Up to you, but not advice I will be following... 

[ktm jeff]

Semi synthetic only has to be 20% synthetic , the rest can be mineral , for it to be classed as semi . If fully , or better still , 100% , synthetic oil is available cheap enough , it could be considered a good up-grade. PTT and Petronas oils seem to be making some good stuff. I mainly use Motul. As Thailand is hot , and oil is cheap , its not a bad idea to use  fully or 100% synthetic.

[malt25]

6 hours ago, keithpa said:

And thinks he can tell the mods what to do. God bless his little soul.

Just goes to show you don't need a long neck to be a goose. If you care to read my post, you might see I haven't told the Mods to do anything of the sort. Being the OP, I think it's my prerogative to "suggest" they can close the post if so desired.

Thanks to all who offered meaningful response.