1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

If the above is true - you just gotta love The Big Red.... not....

Hand gun. Foot. Aim. Fire.

The Corporate Honda does it again...

 

 Just realized, that's similar bhp and less torque than an air cooled 2V EFI 500 Enfield Bullet...

and less power than a stallions 400...

4 hours ago, MekkOne said:

and less power than a stallions 400...

Power to weight ratio would still be bettter 

As would resale value and a Honda is unlikely to fall apart when you're riding it, unlike some cheap Chinese crap excuses for motorcycles

Its very dissapointing if it really has just got 25 bhp - not doubting your source canthai55. Would the engine really be so badly strangled just by complying with Euro regs. While the 250 engine wasnt Hondas finest bike , or engine , it should be capable of going more than 32K before a rebuild , and it gives 24 bhp. So a 450 , costing over twice the price - with better chassis components - and requiring an engine rebuild so often , should be more powerful , yes. I cant see how an after-market exhaust and ECU tune-up will give back the missing 40/50 % bhp.

The source of the 25HP is a press release by Honda. But it has to be a mistake... I mean how could they ever think that releasing it like that would be a sensible thing to do? 25HP and 32Nm means redlining at 6k RPM or something. Both CRF250L and CRF450R rev over 10k RPM. Combine those hypothetical low revolutions with low compression ratio and you still need an oil change every 1000km? Nah, it doesn't add up. But you never know with Honda...

1 hour ago, Ks45672 said:

Power to weight ratio would still be bettter 

As would resale value and a Honda is unlikely to fall apart when you're riding it, unlike some cheap Chinese crap excuses for motorcycles

It's hard to be a Yankee in Asia were everything come from the country you hate the most, the communist China...

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

The source of the 25HP is a press release by Honda. But it has to be a mistake...

My thoughts too.

A quick look at a HP estimator gives 450cc, 9K redline, 12.0 compression at 54 HP

 

3 hours ago, ktm jeff said:

 While the 250 engine wasnt Hondas finest bike , or engine , it should be capable of going more than 32K before a rebuild , and it gives 24 bhp.

It will go much more than that -

27 K miles - 43 K - still going strong

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1045084-who-here-has-the-most-miles-on-their-crf-250-l/?page=6

canthai55 , this is exactly why i , and others , are guess-timating it must have 50 bhp as it requires a rebuild every 32K and an air filter + oil and filter change every 1K. Thats not as high maintainence as a enduro or moto-cross bike , but much more than the 250. If it really is such a disaster , lets hope it jolts Yamaha and Kawasaki into action , to build a proper 450 trail / dual sport.

A lot of the adv forums are saying 25 hp is a mistake in the press release. I agree, the numbers don't add up. It would take a special kind of stupid to go from 60 to 25 and while Honda are IMO stubborn and conservative - they are not stupid. I reckon it's a mistake in the press release and it should have said 45. My old Ninja 250 makes 25 and it's bullet proof. No way this 450 makes the same. No way.

Just watched Shadetree Surgeon's latest You Tube video. Funny as usual. This week's topic?

On 5/26/2018 at 9:19 PM, ktm jeff said:

canthai55 , this is exactly why i , and others , are guess-timating it must have 50 bhp as it requires a rebuild every 32K and an air filter + oil and filter change every 1K. Thats not as high maintainence as a enduro or moto-cross bike , but much more than the 250. If it really is such a disaster , lets hope it jolts Yamaha and Kawasaki into action , to build a proper 450 trail / dual sport.

Forgive me but I think you're dreaming, CRF450R has a lifespan of the engine of 100hours and, if you use it properly (I mean up and down in a track keeping it doing what it likes to do at the right RPMs) you'll end up to make a rebuilt at 70hours to have the right performance for a racing machine (I drove motocross bikes in racing environment for years and owned several CRF450R and YZ450F), this bikes are great bikes but the street version it's forced to have 'poor' performance (I said it before, I genuinely think that the right HP for a CRF450L it's gonna be 35/37hp) just because the engine comes from a high performance engine project. During a race week end you'll change the oil in a CRF-R every 30minutes of use and at the end of the race week end a full service and complete components check will be needed. So to keep a engine like this able to be used on a public road you need to downgrade the engine, using electronic and mechanical solutions far less extreme of the racing version, I don't mean just stick on it a legal exhaust but also geometry of the combustion chamber and cam shaft totally different. We all know Honda for the great reliability of its engines and I'm sure the Tokyo's company won't let its good name go ruined because some fan complain that the bike is not enough powerful, at 35hp will be in fact in line with a lot of bike of the same segment as most of the single 400 are at 29/30hp. Said so again I will never get a bike like that for a street legal use, it's gonna be too uncomfortable and less autonomy of a moped, so I don't really get all the enthusiasm for the announcement as the bike IMHO won't be available in Thailand as not for an import market at a ridiculous price. Cheers.

On 5/28/2018 at 9:32 AM, MekkOne said:

Forgive me but I think you're dreaming

From what I've read over the last few days the 450L engine is based on the 450X, and not the 450R...32,000km rebuild times would relate to approx 500hrs. Still waiting to see the official HP figures, but if they are in the high 30's or low 40's then I'm in...that of course is "if" it's shipped here, and they don't add another 200k to the price tag.

 

I did bring my Yam WR450F here about ten years, but couldn't get it plated and it used to run very hot if you were in tight stuff (small rad & no fan) so sold it on...regretted it ever since...if the 450L does make it here at a sensible price then I'll be a happy chap

The KTM duke 390 has about 42hp so off-course this new CRF450 will have at least the same, at least, well it should.

 

I stand by my earlier post where I guessed it about 45-50, if it dosen't and it cost a small fortune, I doubt they bother importing it, only a very few special customers will be interested thus not worth doing.

Price and HP will be key in selling it here. And if it has high maintenance sked then it is a MX bike with lights, and all that entails.

In USA there is only 1K USD difference between the CRF450L and a Husky 701 - which makes way more HP

We will just have to wait and see. Not much point in second guessing however dreams are free.

 

I would love to see a bike that I could convert to a nice little motard machine, without the high maintenance costs of a competition bike.

 

Purely a personal idea but one that could sell well here.

 

Hopefully when I return in a year the outcome of this will be much clearer.

11 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

We will just have to wait and see. Not much point in second guessing however dreams are free.

 

I would love to see a bike that I could convert to a nice little motard machine, without the high maintenance costs of a competition bike.

 

Purely a personal idea but one that could sell well here.

 

Hopefully when I return in a year the outcome of this will be much clearer.

Agree. I'm still hoping GPX release the TSE250R here. Early reports by knowledgeable posters over on advrider suggest this new Chinese 2 stroke is within an inch of the Japanese bikes quality wise. Not sure it would be able to get a plate/book in Thailand though. I contacted GPX Thailand and they simply ignore my messages so I assume they know nothing about it. 

 

Shame as it's about 170,000 THB and it's already released in the US. GPX has quite a presence here so let's hope it arrives.  

 

 

The 250 has 25 bhp. So a 450 in the same level of road going , go forever , state of tune should have 45 bhp.With an engine life of 32 K , and 1 K oil changes , this 450 is tuned higher , towards an enduro bike. Makes no sense if it has much less than 45/50 bhp. Good point about the road going KTM 390 ( 370 cc ) having 42 bhp. What we have here is a CRF 250 with adjustable suspension and less weight. For an extra 200 K. Buy a Kawasaki KLX for about 160 K .It is also lighter ( 6 KG ) and has adjustable suspension , which is most important off road.Lets hope Yamaha and Kawasaki are watching this comedy of errors , and do the right thing. KLX 450 and WR 450 at 350/400 K please

On 5/24/2018 at 8:41 PM, guzzi850m2 said:

I wonder how much power? 45-50hp?

 

Nice bike if you go a lot off-road and perhaps a little trip to Laos.

 

Boy 130kg!! you could turn it into a nice little supermoto and spend most of the time on the rear wheel only, he-he.

Less than 30hp and 25 pounds torque.  EPA restricted but still comes with off road maintenance according to a Honda site at 600 miles intervals and 1800 mile valve inspections.  Way underpowered, I'll look elsewhere if these figures are true.

 

  

The figures i have is 26 BHP ( CRF 250 has 24 )  , 24 LB/FT ( CRF 250 has 17 ), 130 KG ( good - CRF 250 is about 150 ) and oil and oil filter and air filter changes every 620 Miles. Unless this power goes up 75 % - to 55 BHP - with an exhaust  and ECU , its another Honda clanger.

Fairly poor power specs compared to the Suzi' DR-Z400 which comes in at 39.7 hp &  28.8 lb-ft at 8500 & 6600rpm respectively. 

Thought the Red has 'supposedly'  major service intervals at '' The street-legal bike will also boast longer service intervals than its motocrosser brother, with the first major service coming at 32,000km. Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of power and the new bike will make just 24.6bhp.'' 

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2018/may/honda-crf450-crf250-motocross-/

 

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/suzu/suzuki_drz400SM 05.htm

 

8 minutes ago, Daz69 said:

Fairly poor power specs compared to the Suzi' DR-Z400 which comes in at 39.7 hp &  28.8 lb-ft at 8500 & 6600rpm respectively. 

Thought the Red has 'supposedly'  major service intervals at '' The street-legal bike will also boast longer service intervals than its motocrosser brother, with the first major service coming at 32,000km. Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of power and the new bike will make just 24.6bhp.'' 

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2018/may/honda-crf450-crf250-motocross-/

 

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/suzu/suzuki_drz400SM 05.htm

 

Or according to Wiki'   the specs are for the Suzi' are....

Power	39 hp (29 kW)[1]
Torque	25.6 lb⋅ft (34.7 N⋅m)[1]

24.6bhp?? Are they taking the piss or what? My SR500 Yamaha in 198x something had 33!

 

So almost 40 years later they can't beat that??

 

They lost the plot man.

 

Next

48 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

24.6bhp?? Are they taking the piss or what? My SR500 Yamaha in 198x something had 33!

 

So almost 40 years later they can't beat that??

 

They lost the plot man.

 

Next

For sure  it's piss poor, even the torque figures aint impressive. Torque over BHP is probably more important on a machine built for slow trails, handling and agility. But this ride aint got either ;-/ 

Methinks Honda has got the press release all stuffed up.  The figures just don't make sense.

 

Honda is or should be better than this poor HR release.

 

We all want a low maintenance bike with more oomph than what we currently have. If they do their homework then they can be on a winner.

23 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

Methinks Honda has got the press release all stuffed up.  The figures just don't make sense.

Over on TT they're saying there will be two versions, USA and Euro 4...Euro 4 is the 25HP version

 

Quote

I talked to the American Honda PR guy. He said 40s for hp and 30s for tq on the US model. He didn't use the 50 value. But, also said he didn't have dyno values yet.

 

21 hours ago, Neilly said:

Over on TT they're saying there will be two versions, USA and Euro 4...Euro 4 is the 25HP version

 

 

If 40 - 45 BHP and 35 + Torque and priced at 300 - 350 K , its a winner.  Shame we cant get it in Thailand , only Euro 4 models .

18 hours ago, ktm jeff said:

Shame we cant get it in Thailand , only Euro 4 models .

I'm pretty sure some helpful soul will be doing a kit to convert the strangled version to US spec a couple of weeks after they've been released ?

It's EU website confirms 25hp

https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10

So the bike is DOA in EU I guess. Honda keeps on pulling these moves, no idea why. They like to make engines which either cannot compete or have strings attached. The CB1000R naked has 10% more horse power in Thailand than the CBR1000RR supersport... ? Afaik there are no derestrict kits yet apart from swapping the ECU and a few other pieces. The CRF450L should be much easier/cheaper to "fix" one would hope.

I'd rather have a 23-24hp CRF250L which will go round the clock (100,000 kms +) with bare minimum rudimentary service and maintenance, than a 25hp CRF450L that needs valves looking at every 2000kms and oil, and filter changes every 1000. And a major top end rebuild at 32k. What a POS...