Quality of Thai paint?

[The Deerhunter]

I have done a lot of painting back home but only in properties I owned as a DIY owner.  So I have painted a huge amount and understand about water v/s oil based, primers, undercoats, gloss, enamel, semi gloss, matte etc,   but am not an expert on paints.  Particularly not a lot of experience with Polyurethane and particularly tinted  which is used a lot here.

 

I have been here nearly 5 years and had quite a bit of experience with builders when we constructed 2 new homes and upgraded the existing farm house.   I know that in some instances that correct preparation and dilution procedures were not followed, at times directly in defiance of specific instructions.  That is not what I am talking about but a couple of years later I am still fixing some of them.  However some work was done exactly to instructions and the paint is failing in numerous ways such as mould fungus, blistering peeling and just dying after only 2 to 4 years.  Anti-fungal primer was always used on wood, by the way.   OK so am I just unlucky, using the wrong brands of paint, is the extreme climate conditions to blame or are Thai paints uniformly of low quality.  Some replies would be appreciated from people with extensive experience of various paints here and in other countries. 

[Artisi]

I used TOA SuperShield - ultra premium - both outside and inside - on a new construction a bit over 6 years ago, no complaints what so ever, sure in a couple of places paint has deteriorated or faded a bit - but I don't consider it a fault of the paint - a bit of rising damp or water seepage at foundation level, even areas getting direct sunshine are still more than presentable and shaded areas as good as new.

The build was by a professional builder who didn't cut corners, paint was applied in accordance with manufacturers instructions etc . 

[Fruit Trader]

Am I correct in thinking this is about water and oil based polyurethane and not water base acrylic masonry paints.

[colinneil]

I also used Toa supershield on our house 7 years ago, very pleased with it.

Now after 7 years it still looks good, no pealing nothing.

It was applied correctly, i coat primer, 2coats of supershield on top.

I know it was done correctly as i did it myself, after the wife sacked the so- called expert painting contractors.

[bankruatsteve]

Thai painting 101 leaves out most preparation activity (like cleaning the surface) and calls for at least 50% dilution of the paint.  That's why you see it peeling etc. after such a short time.  The paints are very good as long as you stick with the premium grade.  The lower grades are pretty much crap.  I like TOA Supershield also.

[Thian]

TOA supershield and primer is what i used this year.

 

I noticed that the cheaper ones get mould, but there's also a more expensive one with polyurethane.

 

If you want quality in Thailand that's almost always the most expensive product. Plus you'll have to DIY.

[Rarebear]

I used good paint but think the lady at the store sold me the wrong kind of primer for my concrete exterior walls around my property and now it is bubbling.  I have two questions.  1.  What do I do now?  Do I have to sand it all down and 2.  Do I have to paint both sides of the wall?  (it is an exterior concrete wall surrounding my property outside)

[VocalNeal]

55 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

and calls for at least 50% dilution of the paint.

Many years ago I was told 80/20 for the first coat, so the 80% "thinner" can soak in to the concrete. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by VocalNeal

[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

Many years ago I was told 80/20 for the first coat, so the 805 "thinner" can soak in to the concrete. 

Most primers suggest up to 10% thinning.  Following the mfg. instructions is usually best.

[VocalNeal]

^ The rationale is that whatever is applied will be "sucked in" to the substrate. If the first coat is 80% thinners then it gets sucked into the "pores" if you will  and takes the 20% pigment with it. This seals the surface.

If it is done pigment heavy the small amount of thinner gets sucked in but just leaves a thick deposit on the surface which is not bonded well.

I was told by the paint representative when painting my garage floor. So I suppose manufacturers recommendation.

I've always followed this method when painting virgin concrete.

[Kwasaki]

Preparation & sealers are the main thing don't let them have the finishing coat until that done properly in my experience.

[The Deerhunter]

On 6/10/2018 at 10:14 PM, Fruit Trader said:

Am I correct in thinking this is about water and oil based polyurethane and not water base acrylic masonry paints.

All kinds of paint.  Oil and Water based but not much interested in Polyurethane except to know  if there are dedicated primers for Polyurethane  finishes?

[The Deerhunter]

On 6/11/2018 at 6:46 AM, bankruatsteve said:

Thai painting 101 leaves out most preparation activity (like cleaning the surface) and calls for at least 50% dilution of the paint.  That's why you see it peeling etc. after such a short time.  The paints are very good as long as you stick with the premium grade.  The lower grades are pretty much crap.  I like TOA Supershield also.

Yeah I caught them diluting the concrete primer 200% when the instructions said maximum dilution rate 15%.  I now have Acrylic topcoat on concrete fading almost to white after only 2 years,  I am not sure if that is because of lack of proper concrete priming or poor quality top coat paint

Edited June 12, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[The Deerhunter]

On 6/11/2018 at 7:15 AM, Rarebear said:

I used good paint but think the lady at the store sold me the wrong kind of primer for my concrete exterior walls around my property and now it is bubbling.  I have two questions.  1.  What do I do now?  Do I have to sand it all down and 2.  Do I have to paint both sides of the wall?  (it is an exterior concrete wall surrounding my property outside)

I hope you get an answer because is part of what I am experiencing.    Rising damp is a problem here because there is never a membrane of any sort between foundations/floors  and the walls.   ON some of my exterior walls the worst damage is around the bottom edge  of the exterior wall.  I also wonder if some of the floor tile failures we see around the country are caused by upward migration of water or efflorescence from the concrete coming up under the tiles.

[Rarebear]

1 hour ago, The Deerhunter said:

I hope you get an answer because is part of what I am experiencing.    Rising damp is a problem here because there is never a membrane of any sort between foundations/floors  and the walls.   ON some of my exterior walls the worst damage is around the bottom edge  of the exterior wall.  I also wonder if some of the floor tile failures we see around the country are caused by upward migration of water or efflorescence from the concrete coming up under the tiles.

It is not bubbled all over just in a couple of spots.  What do I do?

[The Deerhunter]

43 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

It is not bubbled all over just in a couple of spots.  What do I do?

It appears that the sealer undercoat is bubbling off taking the top coat with it.  How new was the concrete when it was painted?   Some sealers require the concrete to be at least 28 days old.  Some others are only recommended for "old" concrete.  Some can be used on all concrete, old or new.  I usually try to buy paint that has English and Thai instructions on it so at least I know how it is to be used.  Wait and see what answers other people give you/us.

[Rarebear]

2 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

It appears that the sealer undercoat is bubbling off taking the top coat with it.  How new was the concrete when it was painted?   Some sealers require the concrete to be at least 28 days old.  Some others are only recommended for "old" concrete.  Some can be used on all concrete, old or new.  I usually try to buy paint that has English and Thai instructions on it so at least I know how it is to be used.  Wait and see what answers other people give you/us.

Wall was a couple of years old and only painted on one side.  I think was wet inside the concrete but want to know how to fix.  I'd rather not sand everything down.  Scrape with metal brush would be OK.

[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

I hope you get an answer because is part of what I am experiencing.    Rising damp is a problem here because there is never a membrane of any sort between foundations/floors  and the walls.   ON some of my exterior walls the worst damage is around the bottom edge  of the exterior wall.  I also wonder if some of the floor tile failures we see around the country are caused by upward migration of water or efflorescence from the concrete coming up under the tiles.

All of the areas around our property where paint blisters or peels have high levels of moisture in the cement which can be confirmed with simple conductivity test. Good preparation, contact primer and super five star product will delay the blistering but it always returns.

 

Our work shed which is built on a concrete raft and coated with the cheapest paint has no blistering problems.

 

I have noticed that houses with footing beams above ground have less problems with damp spots. Raised concrete walkways around a house can also increase moisture. 
 

[The Deerhunter]

2 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

All of the areas around our property where paint blisters or peels have high levels of moisture in the cement which can be confirmed with simple conductivity test. Good preparation, contact primer and super five star product will delay the blistering but it always returns.

 

Our work shed which is built on a concrete raft and coated with the cheapest paint has no blistering problems.

 

I have noticed that houses with footing beams above ground have less problems with damp spots. Raised concrete walkways around a house can also increase moisture. 
 

Any particular preferences for a quality brand of paint? Concrete walkways.  Yes we have them  

[Rarebear]

3 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Any particular preferences for a quality brand of paint? Concrete walkways.  Yes we have them  

What kind of primer and what kind of preparation is necessary?

[The Deerhunter]

2 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

What kind of primer and what kind of preparation is necessary?

I am the one who started this post looking for advice, so don't ask me.

[Fruit Trader]

10 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Any particular preferences for a quality brand of paint? Concrete walkways.  Yes we have them  

I have had good results with Jotun paints and great tech support when looking for a floor coating. I really don't think there's much between TOA and JOTUN except maybe company size.

[The Deerhunter]

26 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

I have had good results with Jotun paints and great tech support when looking for a floor coating. I really don't think there's much between TOA and JOTUN except maybe company size.

I have had Beger highly recommended too,  I have mostly been using JBP which seemed ok but now i am wondering.  Their enamel oil paints for wood apply very nicely and some others are not at all easy to use..  But how they last is the real test.   Thanks.

[bankruatsteve]

9 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

I have had Beger highly recommended too,  I have mostly been using JBP which seemed ok but now i am wondering.  Their enamel oil paints for wood apply very nicely and some others are not at all easy to use..  But how they last is the real test.   Thanks.

There's little, if any, difference in quality between the major brands.  Sometimes you can get a "promotion" price but always, always, stick to the premium grade.

 

Edit:  Most of the local paint shops where I live don't even carry the premium grade.  So, you might have to go to a "Home" store or major paint supplier to find.

Edited June 12, 2018 by bankruatsteve

[VocalNeal]

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

Any particular preferences for a quality brand of paint? Concrete walkways.  Yes we have them  

 

If they are virgin and never bee painted before? Epoxy paint done properly. You'll probably never have to do it again. Just like my garage floor. 

 

[Rarebear]

5 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

If they are virgin and never bee painted before? Epoxy paint done properly. You'll probably never have to do it again. Just like my garage floor. 

 

My poor wall is not a virgin.  What am I to do?

[Fruit Trader]

7 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

If they are virgin and never bee painted before? Epoxy paint done properly. You'll probably never have to do it again. Just like my garage floor. 

 

Oops you got the quotes mixed up.

[bankruatsteve]

51 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

My poor wall is not a virgin.  What am I to do?

Use a putty knife or wire brush to remove the blisters.  Sand if needed.  CLEAN.  Put down some primer over the area affected.  Re-paint.  You may want to at least prime the other side of the wall as that may be the source of water.

[Fruit Trader]

Some say its a waste of money if the old paint is in reasonable condition others say always use on old paint.

 

QUOTE - TOA Contact Primer for exterior and interior A special clear solvent type primer for the priming of masonry surface in which the old paint is deteriorated and chalky condition. It provides good adhesion and excellent alkali resistance so it can be used for priming the new cement surface.

 

[Fruit Trader]

And then theres the super life changing 7 in 1 300% Elastomeric at over 3000 Baht a pot.