Testosterone, steroids, etc.

[mokwit]

10 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Okey thanks for the information here is my question 5 months ago i did blood test in Europe and my T level was 6,55 nmol/l. My Doctor said if it is under the 8 nmol/l should start with TRT. ( i think that’s correct) but did not start yet.

 

Now i did a test again in Thailand and it is 324 ng/dl. Can someone calculate please how much 324 ng/dl is in nmol/l? I tried but failed..

seems this score is maybe higher then my 6,55 nmol/l ?

 

Yes so now my estradiol is low too11 pg/ml but if i start with TRT then my estrogen level normally would go up from doing T so maybe another reason to start with TRT?

Seems my t and estrogen both on the low..

i feel fine in general buy lower energy and painfull joints since some yeRs.

https://www.nebido.com/en/hcp/research/testosterone-tools/conversion-tool.php

[tropo]

7 hours ago, faraday said:

An opinion:

 

 Testosterone ( Free & Bound), Estradiol, LH, FSH. From that your SHBG will be calculated. Oh yea, do a PSA too.

 

Post up the results.

 

Just to put a price on these tests to save people from shell shock.

 

I just looked at the price list for my local clinic in Pattaya, Lifecare, which is very reasonably priced overall.

 

LH: 500

FSH: 500

SHBG: 2000

Free Testosterone: 3000

Testosterone: 500

E2: 600

Free PSA: 850

PSA ratio: 1500

[tropo]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

https://www.nebido.com/en/hcp/research/testosterone-tools/conversion-tool.php

I can't get to that link as it keeps reverting to the homepage, but this is basically all an advertising website for Nebido. It's best not to get information from people selling a product. 

[Destiny1990]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

Just to put a price on these tests to save people from shell shock.

 

I just looked at the price list for my local clinic in Pattaya, Lifecare, which is very reasonably priced overall.

 

LH: 500

FSH: 500

SHBG: 2000

Free Testosterone: 3000

Testosterone: 500

E2: 600

Free PSA: 850

PSA ratio: 1500

Okey i will do one more full blood test hopefully it becomes then clear what and how exactly to optimize my hormones and or to just do nothing..

The fact that my estrogen are low 11 pml seems to complicate the issue even more.. also I don’t understand how my t levels have climbed up from 6,55 to 11,3..mnol..

[tropo]

Just now, Destiny1990 said:

Okey i will do one more full blood test hopefully it becomes then clear what and how exactly to optimize my hormones and or to just do nothing..

The fact that my estrogen are low 11 pml seems to complicate the issue even more.. also I don’t understand how my t levels have climbed up from 6,55 to 11,3..mnol..

They probably haven't climbed at all. They could just be peaks and troughs of daily fluctuations. You wouldn't know this unless you've done many tests. I would just stick with the cheapest tests (testosterone and E2) and do some extra testing if you need to, to get an average over time. You will also have plenty of fluctuations if you supplement. It will peak after injection and reduce over time, while Estradiol will climb as a result of the conversion. If you're low on testosterone, that could explain why you're also low on E2. Males probably get most (or perhaps all) of their E2 requirements through conversion.

 

 

[faraday]

Depends if you have a good libido, the number isn't the be all & end all.

 

I feel that you're concentrating on the hormone aspect alot, the numbers aren't really so bad, yea could be better, but it's about how you feel.

 

Go see an Endocrinologist, & get some clarity, rather than just taking advice from here.

 

[Destiny1990]

I calculated all to Ng/dl .

So In Europe i did 2 tests 6 months ago

results 190 ng/dl and 205 ng/dl. Hospital adviced start trt.

 

recently i did 2 test in Thailand results 278 ng/dl and 325 ng/dl And my E2 scored 11 pg/ml. That is a suddenly more acceptable T level range but why the difference? More sun here in Thailand or different measurements protocol? 

 

now if my t levels were as low now as in my first 2 tests then without a doubt i would start with Trt but now since its higher I somewhat doubt.but then still my E 2 rather low too.

 

i can keep measure and measure my blood but maybe i just start to take these 2x 40 mg andriol testo caps daily and do that for 2 months and check all my levels again then? And see how i feel..

 

any input is welcome

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

I calculated all to Ng/dl .

So In Europe i did 2 tests 6 months ago

results 190 ng/dl and 205 ng/dl. Hospital adviced start trt.

 

recently i did 2 test in Thailand results 278 ng/dl and 325 ng/dl And my E2 scored 11 pg/ml. That is a suddenly more acceptable T level range but why the difference? More sun here in Thailand or different measurements protocol? 

 

now if my t levels were as low now as in my first 2 tests then without a doubt i would start with Trt but now since its higher I somewhat doubt.but then still my E 2 rather low too.

 

i can keep measure and measure my blood but maybe i just start to take these 2x 40 mg andriol testo caps daily and do that for 2 months and check all my levels again then? And see how i feel..

 

any input is welcome

If you have been depressed

a long period whith no activity, or little activity, stress for a longer period, you can score low on T! 

 

For men above 45, the specialist say it doesnt matter if you take the test early in the morning or before 2 in the day. The variatioms is is not that significant as those who is younger. 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

If you have been depressed

a long period whith no activity, or little activity, stress for a longer period, you can score low on T! 

 

For men above 45, the specialist say it doesnt matter if you take the test early in the morning or before 2 in the day. The variatioms is is not that significant as those who is younger. 

 

 

I am not depressed and i still do have always morning erections.. but i do have lower energy level and a bad back and joints..

So mainly i am confused that first i was diagnosed having low T in Europe but now it seems suddenly my T level became higher and maybe an acceptable level? Then i just noticed my Estrogen are rather low so yeah I don’t know if i need to do something.. i got no stress i live generally a comfortable life all together..

[Hummin]

Last update on my E2 is 29 pg/ml after less than 2mg of anastrol, and my T-level after 3 weeks of 250mg enanthate was still high. However I have been on a rollercoaster since I took the first shot of Enanthate, and monday I shot 0,6ml of enanthate 250mg 1ml intramuscular, and I have reached my sweet spot the last 3 days. So today I will shoot up 0,5 subq to see if that will deliver mor stable T for me. It is still search and find for me these days. I will not use anymore anastrol the next 3 weeks now, and do a check up again. 

[Hummin]

25 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

I am not depressed and i still do have always morning erections.. but i do have lower energy level and a bad back and joints..

So mainly i am confused that first i was diagnosed having low T in Europe but now it seems suddenly my T level became higher and maybe an acceptable level? Then i just noticed my Estrogen are rather low so yeah I don’t know if i need to do something.. i got no stress i live generally a comfortable life all together..

Maybe you should check your e2 again, and see if it still low. 

 

How is your sleep and memory? Can you have sexual intercourse, and do you have desire for sex?

[Destiny1990]

9 hours ago, Hummin said:

Maybe you should check your e2 again, and see if it still low. 

 

How is your sleep and memory? Can you have sexual intercourse, and do you have desire for sex?

Sleep is fine ,memory is not excellent, sex well honestly if i got a lady usually i take 50 mg viagra and some zinc and then  i can go several rounds. Desire for sex yes but since my back hurting it kinda is less fun..

Okay i one more time will check my T level and E2.. Which Testosterone i test?

LH: 500

FSH: 500

SHBG: 2000

Free Testosterone: 3000

Testosterone: 500

E2: 600

Free PSA: 850

PSA ratio: 1500

Edited August 24, 2018 by Destiny1990

[Hummin]

I would go to an anti age specialist. Im very happy with Bangkok Hospital in Bangkok, and I had a good experience with one doctor in Phuket. They do not give you medicine, but also give you advices so you do not need medicine, or need to use to much medicine. It cost money when you do the first screening, but the good thing they do a complete first screening and it is good to do that every year when you getting 50 and above. 

 

For us to tell you what you need to check is like picking from what we have experienced, and what we know. The doctors have experience with many cases, and know how to ask you the correct questions, to know more about you, and what you need. 

[faraday]

Absolutely agree with Hummin, go to see a proper Doctor, & get some facts about your issues.

Although I self administer Testosterone, I had a number of clinical consultations, & physician interpretated blood tests, before doing anything.

 

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, Hummin said:

I would go to an anti age specialist. Im very happy with Bangkok Hospital in Bangkok, and I had a good experience with one doctor in Phuket. They do not give you medicine, but also give you advices so you do not need medicine, or need to use to much medicine. It cost money when you do the first screening, but the good thing they do a complete first screening and it is good to do that every year when you getting 50 and above. 

 

For us to tell you what you need to check is like picking from what we have experienced, and what we know. The doctors have experience with many cases, and know how to ask you the correct questions, to know more about you, and what you need. 

So far did 4 tests already but  the problem is that my first 2 test were done in  Europe and there i scored significantly lower t levels then my two more  tests done here..in my last test i for the first time decided to test also my estrogen and its low..( low estrogen isnt good either) my estrogen might be low cause my t is low.

i fine listen to opinions here from posters with their own experiences.  

 

 

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

So far did 4 tests already but  the problem is that my first 2 test were done in  Europe and there i scored significantly lower t levels then my two more  tests done here..in my last test i for the first time decided to test also my estrogen and its low..( low estrogen isnt good either) my estrogen might be low cause my t is low.

i fine listen to opinions here from posters with their own experiences.  

 

 

the problem we are not doctors, and me and some of the others have been doing screening over a longer period before we now manage our self on T. We have test data for years already. 

 

It is your choice. 

[Hummin]

Just now, Hummin said:

the problem we are not doctors, and me and some of the others have been going to doctors over a longer period before we now manage our self on T. We have test data for years already. 

 

It is your choice. 

 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

the problem we are not doctors, and me and some of the others have been doing screening over a longer period before we now manage our self on T. We have test data for years already. 

 

It is your choice. 

That's one problem, but your comments suggest that doctors know what's going on and can fix everything. Most don't, and even the ones that do are restricted in what they can advise and what drugs they can give you. They could mess you around and experiment for years with less optimum methods.

 

So who to see would be valuable information here.

[Hummin]

56 minutes ago, tropo said:

That's one problem, but your comments suggest that doctors know what's going on and can fix everything. Most don't, and even the ones that do are restricted in what they can advise and what drugs they can give you. They could mess you around and experiment for years with less optimum methods.

 

So who to see would be valuable information here.

I already provided two places where I am happy to be a patient, and I can put my trust. 

 

But I aggree you need to experience and put your trust somewhere? 

 

Maybe time for TV to have a doctore section as well ? 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Hummin

[Destiny1990]

On 8/25/2018 at 11:16 AM, Hummin said:

 

Anyway recently i did another very extensive complete  bloodtest and this time came out again that i got low T levels and low Estrogen level and high prolactin level and again also this doctor  recommended me to start take T shots.

Doctor said Taking Additional T will make most of my other hormones fall more into place too.

He also advised to do sub q shots 2x a week.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Destiny1990

[Destiny1990]

Lets say i start with T shots then my estrogen going up too Doctor said which is good..He adviced me estrogen  kevel need be between 30-40 now mine estrogen  level is 11...

So at sone point at will be too high i have read then people use A1 to lower their E?

Can i buy A1 at pharmacy in Thailand ? Or another medicine that lowers E? 

[tropo]

9 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Lets say i start with T shots then my estrogen going up too Doctor said which is good..He adviced me estrogen  kevel need be between 30-40 now mine estrogen  level is 11...

So at sone point at will be too high i have read then people use A1 to lower their E?

Can i buy A1 at pharmacy in Thailand ? Or another medicine that lowers E? 

Microdoses of Anastrazole is the best way to reduce estrogen IMO.  0.25mg daily or even every other day could be enough to get it to where you want it. It's an extremely potentThis is where testing would need to be done to find out how much you need.

 

Please note the mechanism. It doesn't reduce estrogen but blocks conversion, which in turn could increase your testosterone levels.

 

(Wikipedia)

Mechanism

Anastrozole works by reversibly binding to the aromatase enzyme, and through competitive inhibition blocks the conversion of androgens to estrogens in peripheral (extragonadal) tissues. 

 

It's used for breast cancer treatment, so it should be available. Perhaps a doctor's script is necessary.

Edited August 31, 2018 by tropo

[faraday]

57 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Anyway recently i did another very extensive complete  bloodtest and this time came out again that i got low T levels and low Estrogen level and high prolactin level and again also this doctor  recommended me to start take T shots.

Doctor said Taking Additional T will make most of my other hormones fall more into place too.

He also advised to do sub q shots 2x a week.

Dear god....you really need to see an Endocrinologist!

 

If you have high Prolactin, low T & low e2, I am very doubtful that your 'hormones will fall into place' with exogenous Testosterone. It is not that simple.

 

 

[tropo]

53 minutes ago, faraday said:

Dear god....you really need to see an Endocrinologist!

 

If you have high Prolactin, low T & low e2, I am very doubtful that your 'hormones will fall into place' with exogenous Testosterone. It is not that simple.

 

They could if you can nail the exogenous Testosterone dose and frequency. The facts are we are all getting old and going to die. Testosterone levels decline with age. That's life. What to do? Sit by and watch it happen, or try to do something about it. At a certain point, one has only one option - artificial methods.

[Hummin]

16 minutes ago, tropo said:

They could if you can nail the exogenous Testosterone dose and frequency. The facts are we are all getting old and going to die. Testosterone levels decline with age. That's life. What to do? Sit by and watch it happen, or try to do something about it. At a certain point, one has only one option - artificial methods.

  I still strong advice him to se a specialist!

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, faraday said:

Dear god....you really need to see an Endocrinologist!

 

If you have high Prolactin, low T & low e2, I am very doubtful that your 'hormones will fall into place' with exogenous Testosterone. It is not that simple.

 

 

Slightly wrong because i have seen already 3 of them this was the third endocrinologist but each time a made a more extensive blood test..advice is start with TRT for 3 months then new blood tests and follow up from there..i paid 7000 bht for last blood test and one hour talk after the results came in.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Destiny1990

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

My understanding is that when the pituitary gland senses low estrogen levels (produced by  Anastrozole ) it creates  more Luteinizing hormone which signals the testes to make more testosterone.

My luteinizing hormone is 7,79 miu/ml indeed kinda high but still in range.and my prolactin is 23,8 ng/ml

Edited August 31, 2018 by Destiny1990

[faraday]

Your Prolactin is high, & should be below 18, however it probably isn't pathologically high.

 

But I'm not an MD.

 

Did any of the three endos discuss your Pituitary Gland?

 

Big hint here.

[Destiny1990]

6 hours ago, faraday said:

Your Prolactin is high, & should be below 18, however it probably isn't pathologically high.

 

But I'm not an MD.

 

Did any of the three endos discuss your Pituitary Gland?

 

Big hint here.

Well only this last time my prolactin level was measured. This endocrinologist  thinks its maybe more tyroid related. What i wonder about is did i first developed  Elevated Prolactin levels that than  caused my low T and low estrogen levels ? Or was it the other way around? That i had first developed Low T levels that caused my high prolactin levels and caused my low estrogen levels? And This what i found on google:

 

An underactive thyroid or inadequate thyroid hormone replacement can also raise prolactin levels.

 

Due too the low estrogen and testosterone levels that may occur with elevated prolactin, some men and women also develop low bone density.

 

Looking at my thyroid Free t 4 it scored 0,98 ng/dl while the range is (0,94 - 1,70) so yes its low score.

 

seems to me the first fix of these Endocrinologists is very often to start with TRT.

[tropo]

8 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Well only this last time my prolactin level was measured. This endocrinologist  thinks its maybe more tyroid related. What i wonder about is did i first developed  Elevated Prolactin levels that than  caused my low T and low estrogen levels ? Or was it the other way around? That i had first developed Low T levels that caused my high prolactin levels and caused my low estrogen levels? And This what i found on google:

 

An underactive thyroid or inadequate thyroid hormone replacement can also raise prolactin levels.

 

Due too the low estrogen and testosterone levels that may occur with elevated prolactin, some men and women also develop low bone density.

 

Looking at my thyroid Free t 4 it scored 0,98 ng/dl while the range is (0,94 - 1,70) so yes its low score.

 

seems to me the first fix of these Endocrinologists is very often to start with TRT.

The first thing I would do is start supplementing boron. There's a very high probability you're deficient, as most people are. Add magnesium and iodine too. Test yourself again after several months.

 

It has been shown to increase estrogen and testosterone. There will be many side benefits too, such as improved bone density and joint integrity. If you have osteoarthritis already, it will make the pains disappear and improve joint strength. If you don't have it, it will likely prevent it. It will protect against osteoporosis, or reverse it if you already have it. Hair growth may improve, teeth will be strengthened. Mental clarity could be another possible side benefit... and last but not least... "Compelling evidence is accumulating that the trace mineral boron plays an important role in protecting men against deadly prostate cancer".

 

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/11/boron-reduces-prostate-cancer-risk/page-01

 

These benefits are not some magic drug-like effect. It's just normalization after lifelong deficiency of a very important mineral. Due to farming practices around the world, apart from a few countries (Israel, parts of Turkey and China), few people get enough in their diet. Most multimineral and vitamin formulas don't have enough. I aim for about 15 - 20 mg per day but started off with much higher doses.

 

Do some research on boron - you'll be amazed at what it can do.

Edited September 1, 2018 by tropo