Video: Three dead as Pajero driver who fled scene revealed as top forestry official

[evadgib]

30 minutes ago, dave moir said:

Clunk click? Toyota Vios only have 5 seat belts!!!! 

...rendering these old PIFs useless but nonetheless still worth watching.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by evadgib

[JAZZDOG]

My 24 year old son died 4 years ago in a slow rollover, 50mph, he could have easily survived had he been wearing his belt. He could have actually driven away as the car was lightly damaged. Love him everyday but pissed off he made such a bad decision that will affect all who loved him likely forever. Way is that hard to learn? 

[todlad]

9 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Clearly he wasn't driving with due care and attention.  The Parjero probably shouldn't have pulled out with the Vios so close but if the Vios driver had followed the rules on U turns, he wouldn't have hit the Pajero.  The real blame for the accident is those bloody U turns but the real blame for the deaths is not wearing seat belts.

I hope you never have to represent anyone in court and do so with the evidence of 2 seconds of a video.

you have no idea what the vios was doing until we see it already taking evasive action.

you cannot draw any rational conclusions here.

[thailand49]

The incident just reaffirms my thinking there isn't one Thai official in this country can suggest or fix the problem of driving here, they all come from the same school. Taught to them by their parents and it goes on and on.  This is why every suggestion/solution made by a official just make us foreigner roll our eyes and scratch our heads. You can't fix something if you don't understand what is causing the problem.

When I watch the video like many accidents there are a number of problems.  There are two things that work it is call education and enforcement  but you need to know what the education is and how to take that education and enforce it, here not one in this country understand what they are doing wrong therefore can't correct it.

 

The Transport Department head has stated the problem isn't how the roads are design. 

Here watching the video you got a vehicle coming from a angle to enter into a main road.  Like many drivers entering into a main road from a secondary just enter without slowing down or looking. This guy isn't making a U-turn he is making a right turn here when they do they go straight out to the middle or far end and then turn. This area where he comes out and turn doesn't have a right merging area because merging into traffic is a unknown and not taught. I don't know how many times I've sat in traffic waiting for the vehicle in the front instead of merging just hold up everything so they can do exactly what this driver did.

We might take it for granted but a simple written question on a test answer whether you make a left or right turn you must finish the turn closes to where you started. In this case the road wasn't design with a right turn merging area and no one ever educated the driver to finish the right turn closes to the right, if done properly the accident most likely wouldn't have happen. A simple educated and enforce rule whenever entering into a road whether a stop sign exist or not one must stop/slowing and proceed with caution then make you turn and finish on the same side you started. Teaching how to use both mirrors reason why driver here making a left go out to the middle before turning, no training how to use passenger mirror another reason on narrow roads cars slow down stop when a vehicle is parked on the left even when they have more than enough room.

When it comes to the Vios, another rule taken for granted not taught here.  Human nature is for one to go left or right to avoid, but a rule of thumb in a situation like this is to apply the brake and head straight. There is a reason for it, majority of the time swinging to avoid would cause a greater accident a chain reaction?  If this driver had follow this simple rule I don't believe it would have been as bad.

Then drivers aren't taught to get the big picture!  big picture is to not look down but at least 7 plus second ahead doing so in this case would have given the driver more time to apply the brakes but none what I've been saying above is taught here so it is pedal to the metal and avoid.

Last, the official should be taken to the back and shot!  No remorse whatsoever drivers here are so desensitized to death it isn't funny! 

Edited June 24, 2018 by thailand49

[todlad]

8 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

The incident just reaffirms my thinking there isn't one Thai official in this country can suggest or fix the problem of driving here, they all come from the same school. Taught to them by their parents and it goes on and on.  This is why every suggestion/solution made by a official just make us foreigner roll our eyes and scratch our heads. You can't fix something if you don't understand what is causing the problem.

When I watch the video like many accidents there are a number of problems.  There are two things that work it is call education and enforcement  but you need to know what the education is and how to take that education and enforce it, here not one in this country understand what they are doing wrong therefore can't correct it.

 

The Transport Department head has stated the problem isn't how the roads are design. 

Here watching the video you got a vehicle coming from a angle to enter into a main road.  Like many drivers entering into a main road from a secondary just enter without slowing down or looking. This guy isn't making a U-turn he is making a right turn here when they do they go straight out to the middle or far end and then turn. This area where he comes out and turn doesn't have a right merging area because merging into traffic is a unknown and not taught. I don't know how many times I've sat in traffic waiting for the vehicle in the front instead of merging just hold up everything so they can do exactly what this driver did.

We might take it for granted but a simple written question on a test answer whether you make a left or right turn you must finish the turn closes to where you started. In this case the road wasn't design with a right turn merging area and no one ever educated the driver to finish the right turn closes to the right, if done properly the accident most likely wouldn't have happen. A simple educated and enforce rule whenever entering into a road whether a stop sign exist or not one must stop/slowing and proceed with caution then make you turn and finish on the same side you started. Teaching how to use both mirrors reason why driver here making a left go out to the middle before turning, no training how to use passenger mirror another reason on narrow roads cars slow down stop when a vehicle is parked on the left even when they have more than enough room.

When it comes to the Vios, another rule taken for granted not taught here.  Human nature is for one to go left or right to avoid, but a rule of thumb in a situation like this is to apply the brake and head straight. There is a reason for it, majority of the time swinging to avoid would cause a greater accident a chain reaction?  If this driver had follow this simple rule I don't believe it would have been as bad.

Then drivers aren't taught to get the big picture!  big picture is to not look down but at least 7 plus second ahead doing so in this case would have given the driver more time to apply the brakes but none what I've been saying above is taught here so it is pedal to the metal and avoid.

Last, the official should be taken to the back and shot!  No remorse whatsoever drivers here are so desensitized to death it isn't funny! 

One of the most rational posts in this thread. the vast majority of comments here are just kack.

 

you make several good points including education: this is at the heart of everything for a developing/emerging nation.

 

As far as the vios driver is concerned we see that he may well have gone from a life saving lane to swerving left and thereby crashing into the tree. 

 

overall, Thai drivers do have a lot to learn but no driver can be confident of guaranteeing his own safety when faced with a moron like we see in the Pajero. 

[thailand49]

16 minutes ago, todlad said:

One of the most rational posts in this thread. the vast majority of comments here are just kack.

 

you make several good points including education: this is at the heart of everything for a developing/emerging nation.

 

As far as the vios driver is concerned we see that he may well have gone from a life saving lane to swerving left and thereby crashing into the tree. 

 

overall, Thai drivers do have a lot to learn but no driver can be confident of guaranteeing his own safety when faced with a moron like we see in the Pajero. 

My comments are derived from 40 years of handling commercial vehicles and teaching others how to drive them. Your last comment is what I refer to as the big picture,  it is easy to put the pedal to the metal what is hard is visually seeing everything ahead for one simple reason you got guys like the Pajero everywhere driving here.  The best offense is defense you heard that before and learning the bad habits of drivers here is the key that is my experience. My son is 19 years old now I've been teaching him to drive for a year now due to our schedule one of the major items when he is driving is to tell me while he is driving what he see ahead of him. He has to call it all out!  My requirement is he must pass my driving test before he takes the Thai test. He knows how I feel which is I can train our dog to drive around in a circle.

His first test failed!  We have six small cones I use for his skill test I told him to leave them outside the car, he was confused but got into the car and started it up and place it in drive. I said stopped told him he fail now got to wait a week before try again, he ask why?  I said you didn't put your seatbelt on.  Rule of thumb, key in, left arm grab the seatbelt all in one motion. All these simple rules might seem small and taken for granted but are required to work for companies like UPS, FedEx, drivers know this is their career you look at the billions of miles these drivers put on the road and their rate of accidents is very low. Now he understand about the cones!

Thais aren't stupid if they can preform on the National stage with so many sports they can learn how to drive, why enforcement of rules by the referees! When you don't want to lose something you beat to the drum Nanny State or not!

Edited June 24, 2018 by thailand49

[Bundooman]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:43 AM, flyingtlger said:

The guy looks so nonchalant, just texting or doing something on his phone like it was no big deal......Just killed 3 people including a child and seriously injured 4, I don't know about you but I'd be horrified and remorseful. 

Yes, I agree. He actually looks quite bored and clearly believes he shouldn't have to sit and wait for the wheels to turn. Maybe prepping his phone for a "look how boring this all is" picture for his Facebook woodland friends.

[Crossy]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

...rendering these old PIFs useless but nonetheless still worth watching.

 

The fact that we remember these Public Information Films from 20+ years back, often even longer (who else remembers Reginald Molehusband?) means they did have an effect. 

 

There were some wonderfully memorable lines, e.g. "if at work you drop a spanner, it travels in a downward manner" (wear your safety gear).

 

Maybe Thailand needs something similarly hard-hitting.

 

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, todlad said:

I hope you never have to represent anyone in court and do so with the evidence of 2 seconds of a video.

you have no idea what the vios was doing until we see it already taking evasive action.

you cannot draw any rational conclusions here.

Had he been watching the road correctly and taking note of the warning signs, he would have seen the Pajero waiting - I don't think it would take a mastermind to anticipate what the Pajero is likely to do.  Maybe the Pajero shouldn't have pulled out when he did but think about it, would it be anything new or is it the norm?  Everyone takes chances at those bloody stupid U turns because if not, you can be sat there waiting for a long time.  Yes its a short video but what I can see is no traffic in the other lanes. What I don't see is the Vios driver moving into the centre lane to allow the Pajero to use the slip. I honestly believe that he had time to adjust his speed and take evasive action.  The U turn doesn't look particularly new to me so I'd guess its been there a long time with the usual 1km. 500m and 200m warnings + amber flashing lights.  Why are those warnings there?  What do you do when you approach a U turn? I watch what's going on even more closely than I normally do and if there's a vehicle waiting at the U, I presume that he's going to pull across and drive accordingly.  Had the Vios driver taken due care, 3 people would still be alive. Not only did he fail to take due care, I'm pretty sure he didn't have his seat belt on as it looks like his body that's thrown out of the car.  If that's the case then its doubtful that anyone else was wearing a belt.  Again, its the driver's responsibility to make sure his pasaengers are wearing seat belts.

 

The video may be short but I think its long enough to make out all the relevant points.  The most important factor is that its a U turn, people should know what to expect there and adjust their driving accordingly.  Its also an important point that the Vios driver was Thai, having spent 16 years watching how they drive and how little notice they take of the situation around them whilst driving, how little regard they have for either the law or basic driving fundamentals - I'm 100% sure that the Vios driver could have easily avoided that accident and that 3 lives have been needlessly wasted.

Edited June 24, 2018 by KhaoYai

[Redline]

When will they get rid of these rediculous u-turns?

[0815]

On 6/23/2018 at 10:47 AM, VocalNeal said:

 

These large SUV's have the turning circle of a bus plus people hug the inside before turning thus increasing the projection into the oncoming lanes. In my small truck I can do a U-turn using one lane. My staff when driving need two lanes

Doing a u-turn, using one lane only, means you end up on the right (fast lane) with your small truck ?
Interesting...

[watcharacters]

On 6/23/2018 at 9:56 AM, keith101 said:

It doesn't look like he actually hit the other vehicle but he caused the accident and just drove away same as hit and run or leaving the scene of an accident?

 

 

Sorry but you are wrong.

Without an actual collision there are too many  "what ifs"

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by watcharacters

[Thechook]

From the photo it looks like he doesn't have a care in the world and knows nothing is going to be done

[drgoon]

On 6/23/2018 at 2:38 PM, steelepulse said:

Were no seat belts involved?  Doesn't look like the vios was traveling at excessive speed and I would think airbags and seatbelts would have saved everyone involved.

 

7 people in a Vios...  guaranteed the kiddie was on someones lap and not a carseat.

[rodney earl]

Dont worry a wai will fix it.!

[Crossy]

12 hours ago, 0815 said:

Doing a u-turn, using one lane only, means you end up on the right (fast lane) with your small truck ?
Interesting...

I often wonder about this as the "official" technique is to get across to the left side and accelerate there.

 

Would you rather be crossing three (or more) lanes of fast-moving traffic at 90 ^o with the possibility of getting t-boned? Or getting into one lane (ok the fast lane) and accelerating? Yes, there's the possibility of getting rear-ended, but you are offering a much smaller profile and moving in the same direction as the traffic.

[Vacuum]

5 hours ago, drgoon said:

 

 guaranteed the kiddie was on someones lap and not a carseat.

Fair assumption, unless an adult was on someones lap....

[spiroinusa1]

Most Thai drivers make a wide u turn to get to the far left lane and stay out of the way of on going traffic. The other driver was not forced into the extreme left lane. He could have just went to the middle lane. But we are all not as quick to react to such situations. In Thailand it is a question of timing. Slow gets you there. These U turn lanes on major roads in the north where I live are accidents waiting to happen. Also everyone or almost everyone speeds, They should have cameras at all U turns showing the traffic before the incident as well as the accident. Most drivers get frustrated when waiting a long time at a u Turn and dash out at any given opportunity. It's a tough country to drive in.. 

[The Teacher]

On 6/23/2018 at 12:02 PM, Just1Voice said:

Making a very wide U-turn, and didn't see the other car coming?????

Probably too busy texting or talking on his cell phone to pay attention to the road. 

 

When are the police going to learn that until you start throwing the book of heavy fines this will always continue, Wake up Thailand get with the program 

[todlad]

23 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Had he been watching the road correctly and taking note of the warning signs, he would have seen the Pajero waiting - I don't think it would take a mastermind to anticipate what the Pajero is likely to do.  Maybe the Pajero shouldn't have pulled out when he did but think about it, would it be anything new or is it the norm?  Everyone takes chances at those bloody stupid U turns because if not, you can be sat there waiting for a long time.  Yes its a short video but what I can see is no traffic in the other lanes. What I don't see is the Vios driver moving into the centre lane to allow the Pajero to use the slip. I honestly believe that he had time to adjust his speed and take evasive action.  The U turn doesn't look particularly new to me so I'd guess its been there a long time with the usual 1km. 500m and 200m warnings + amber flashing lights.  Why are those warnings there?  What do you do when you approach a U turn? I watch what's going on even more closely than I normally do and if there's a vehicle waiting at the U, I presume that he's going to pull across and drive accordingly.  Had the Vios driver taken due care, 3 people would still be alive. Not only did he fail to take due care, I'm pretty sure he didn't have his seat belt on as it looks like his body that's thrown out of the car.  If that's the case then its doubtful that anyone else was wearing a belt.  Again, its the driver's responsibility to make sure his pasaengers are wearing seat belts.

 

The video may be short but I think its long enough to make out all the relevant points.  The most important factor is that its a U turn, people should know what to expect there and adjust their driving accordingly.  Its also an important point that the Vios driver was Thai, having spent 16 years watching how they drive and how little notice they take of the situation around them whilst driving, how little regard they have for either the law or basic driving fundamentals - I'm 100% sure that the Vios driver could have easily avoided that accident and that 3 lives have been needlessly wasted.

You have made a few assumptions in your analysis as you seem to condemn the Vios driver.

Look at the video again: look at the line the Vios is taking: yes, he made a mistake. He followed the Pajero to the left instead of going straight. He would have been saved by going straight, wouldn't he.

You don't have to drive here very long to learn to highten your awareness at and near a u turn on a major road.

A lot of people are condemning the Vios driver when the reality is that he may well never have faced a situation such as this and maybe he was overcome with fear and panic.

In the final analysis, it is fair to say that the Vios driver did contribute in some way to the deaths and injury he and his passengers suffered: it's called contributory negligence. But be fair, the moron in the Pajero undertook a manoeuvre when he should have waited. If he hadn't seen the Vios coming towards him, why not? If he had seen the Vios then he absolutely should not have started his u turn then.

[KhaoYai]

9 minutes ago, todlad said:

A lot of people are condemning the Vios driver when the reality is that he may well never have faced a situation such as this and maybe he was overcome with fear and panic.

Now who's making assumptions?  I don't believe that anyone in Thailand has never faced such a situation - if not as a driver, at least as a passenger.  I regularly drive from  Khao Yai to Bangkok and pass dozens of  U turns - I can guarantee that at at least 30% of them someone will pull out on me - usually a truck which causes mayhem.  I've never hit anyone because I drive accordingly.

 

You could say that its down to education then - I doubt it.  Look at Thai language newspapers - their pages are full of photos of gory accidents every day - Thai's learn nothing.   Its down to 2 things. 1. Poor law enforcement. 2. Thai mentality.

[TKDfella]

25 minutes ago, todlad said:

You have made a few assumptions in your analysis as you seem to condemn the Vios driver.

Look at the video again: look at the line the Vios is taking: yes, he made a mistake. He followed the Pajero to the left instead of going straight. He would have been saved by going straight, wouldn't he.

You don't have to drive here very long to learn to highten your awareness at and near a u turn on a major road.

A lot of people are condemning the Vios driver when the reality is that he may well never have faced a situation such as this and maybe he was overcome with fear and panic.

In the final analysis, it is fair to say that the Vios driver did contribute in some way to the deaths and injury he and his passengers suffered: it's called contributory negligence. But be fair, the moron in the Pajero undertook a manoeuvre when he should have waited. If he hadn't seen the Vios coming towards him, why not? If he had seen the Vios then he absolutely should not have started his u turn then.

So you admit that both were in error, eh?

[Tofer]

10 hours ago, Crossy said:

I often wonder about this as the "official" technique is to get across to the left side and accelerate there.

 

Would you rather be crossing three (or more) lanes of fast-moving traffic at 90 ^o with the possibility of getting t-boned? Or getting into one lane (ok the fast lane) and accelerating? Yes, there's the possibility of getting rear-ended, but you are offering a much smaller profile and moving in the same direction as the traffic.

Definitely the left lane, it gives you a far better chance of getting across the U turn in busy traffic than waiting for a suitably large gap in the fast lane to allow you time to speed up to fit in with the flow, and there is also the possibility someone will cross lanes and fill that gap unexpectedly - dangerous to say the least!

 

But then you have to factor in the prats who drive the wrong way down the hard shoulder and could very well end up in your front grille. Basically you need eyes in the back of your head, or the worlds best back seat driver like my wife.....

Edited June 25, 2018 by Tofer

[oldlakey]

6 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Definitely the left lane, it gives you a far better chance of getting across the U turn in busy traffic than waiting for a suitably large gap in the fast lane to allow you time to speed up to fit in with the flow, and there is also the possibility someone will cross lanes and fill that gap unexpectedly - dangerous to say the least!

In a free for all its first come first served and the devil take the hindmost, to think about it though he takes them all sometimes

[Tofer]

3 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

In a free for all its first come first served and the devil take the hindmost, to think about it though he takes them all sometimes

Quite right. That was the very first thing I learnt about driving in Thailand - he who is in front is in the right. That's why so many drivers never look over their shoulder before pulling out of side roads, once on the main carriageway it's the follow up vehicle that has to make allowances.

 

I rely on my wife to look over my shoulder, age has limited my flexibility!?

[todlad]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Now who's making assumptions?  I don't believe that anyone in Thailand has never faced such a situation - if not as a driver, at least as a passenger.  I regularly drive from  Khao Yai to Bangkok and pass dozens of  U turns - I can guarantee that at at least 30% of them someone will pull out on me - usually a truck which causes mayhem.  I've never hit anyone because I drive accordingly.

 

You could say that its down to education then - I doubt it.  Look at Thai language newspapers - their pages are full of photos of gory accidents every day - Thai's learn nothing.   Its down to 2 things. 1. Poor law enforcement. 2. Thai mentality.

Now we know you don't understand assumptions. Never mind, you are still missing one major point. Like you, I see U turns as a massive hazard and I drive accordingly. Like you, I see chancers at U turns several times a week and wonder at the misfiring of their brain cells.

The point you are missing is that it is one thing to see a hazard and quite another to come face to face with the grim reaper.

I suggested, did not assume, that the unfortunate Vios driver could well have been in the latter category.

There is another category of U turn behaviour as I am sure you know; and that is where drivers on the main carriageway give way to the U turners. Also has the potential to be dangerous.

[todlad]

1 hour ago, TKDfella said:

So you admit that both were in error, eh?

You mean the two drivers or Khao  Yai and me?

[waders123]

A wai and a few token baht and back to business as usual.  Generally, laws are not for the people that have power nor the wealthy; this is just the way of the world.  Very sad for the victims and their families, may they rest in peace.

[KhaoYai]

5 hours ago, todlad said:

Now we know you don't understand assumptions. Never mind, you are still missing one major point. Like you, I see U turns as a massive hazard and I drive accordingly. Like you, I see chancers at U turns several times a week and wonder at the misfiring of their brain cells.

The point you are missing is that it is one thing to see a hazard and quite another to come face to face with the grim reaper.

I suggested, did not assume, that the unfortunate Vios driver could well have been in the latter category.

There is another category of U turn behaviour as I am sure you know; and that is where drivers on the main carriageway give way to the U turners. Also has the potential to be dangerous.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree, I've seen far to many examples of crazy, nay mindless driving in Thailand to believe the Vios driver wasn't aware he was approaching a U turn.  One regular one comes to mind - and this is a several times a day occurence - motorbikes coming out of side roads without even looking. Its as if  they have a bracket fitted to their heads and attached to the bars so they can't turn their head.  Basic rules of survival would make me look right - as they do taking care at U turns.

 

The worst I've ever had (that didn't result in an accident) was a guy in a Fortuner travelling along highway 2 towards Bangkok in lane 3 (outside lane).  There were some market stalls or something at the side of the road and I'm directly behind him. All lanes were pretty full and I'd guess we were doing between 90 and 100kmh.  Mr Fortuner suddenly decides visiting the market stalls is a good idea but he doesn't simply pull across all three lanes - that would have been bad enough.  No, he hits the anchors, stops and then cuts across all 3 lanes!!  How I or anyone else failed to hit him I know not but I did return home for a change of pants.

 

There are probably bigger idiots in other countries, England is not immune from bad driving  - its the sheer mindless, utterly ridiculous driving that makes Thailand stand out above the rest.  Of course without being in the car, or seeing a longer video from all angles, nobody can be 100% certain of what happened in this crash. But without the slightest bit of bigging myself up, I can say for certain that it wouldn't have happened if I'd been driving the Vios.  I think they same could be said of most of us here.  I slow down aproaching U's - then Thai's come past me - what does that tell you?

 

Yes the Thai driving test is ridiculous, absolutely yes, U turns are accidents waiting to happen but no matter how much you try and educate Thai drivers, they won't change.  Its simple to fix really but it means massive law enforcement  and that's never going to happen.

[TKDfella]

14 hours ago, todlad said:

You mean the two drivers or Khao  Yai and me?

The drivers.