Why are there less people in bars from 2009 to 2015 in southern Phuket

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, KKr said:

a Russian saying goes that most drinkers are not alcoholics because they drink with someone else,
but that drinking alone means you for sure are an alcoholic.

Also, it was recognised recently (about 15 years ago) that beer alcoholism does exist. Did you know that ?

I drink 'home alone' almost every afternoon, usually about 3 bottles with lunch.

I used to drink in bars with hookers.

Drinking at home is much cheaper (100-150bht/day), and no need to drive anywhere while drunk.

If that makes me an alcoholic, so be it. The Thai bars have just have nothing I want any longer.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, KKr said:

but that drinking alone means you for sure are an alcoholic.

Too narrow a definition...…….so my 3 glasses of wine with an evening meal (alone) make me an alcoholic????

 

I think not and the following gives some clues:-

 

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) describes alcohol use disorder (AUD) as "problem drinking that becomes severe."

 

A person with this condition does not know when or how to stop drinking. They spend a lot of time thinking about alcohol, and they cannot control how much they consume, even if it is causing serious problems at home, work, and financially.

Alcohol abuse can be used to talk about excessive or inappropriate consumption of alcohol, but not necessarily dependence.

 

Moderate alcohol consumption does not generally cause any psychological or physical harm. However, if who enjoy social drinking increase their consumption or regularly consume more than is recommended, AUD may eventually develop.

A person who drinks excessive amounts of alcohol will often not be the first person to realize that this is so.

 

Some signs and symptoms of AUD include:

·         drinking alone or in secret

·         not being able to limit how much alcohol is consumed

·         blacking out and not being able to remember chunks of time

·         having rituals and being irritated if someone else comments on these rituals, for example, drinks before, during, or after meals, or after work

·         losing interest in hobbies that were previously enjoyed

·         feeling an urge to drink

·         feeling irritable when drinking times approach, especially if alcohol is not, or may not be, available

·         storing alcohol in unlikely places

·         gulping drinks down in order to feel good

·         having problems with relationships, the law, finances, or work that stem from drinking

·         needing more alcohol to feel its effect

·         experiencing nausea, sweating, or shaking when not drinking

 

Some people experience some of these signs and symptoms but are not dependent on alcohol.

 

Alcohol consumption becomes a problem when it takes precedence over all other activities. Dependence can take several years to develop.

 

The problems linked to alcohol dependence are extensive. The effects can be physical, psychological, and social.

 

[KKr]

Guys, when I want a to drink alcohol, I do.
Preferably with but also without company.

What I was quoting is a folk-saying, half jokingly, and a little bit serious.
As if there are no alcoholics that drink in company only.

do not take folk knowledge too seriously.

[billythehat]

17 hours ago, xylophone said:

One of the best and most liveliest soi up until sold and demolished about 4-5 yrs ago...……..now Soi Freedom as I said in my follow up post!

Agree, but for me it’s a photo finish with the original Soi Gonzo. Halcyon days from 2000-2005. 

[Old Croc]

There has not been a decline in the numbers of tourists coming to Thailand from western countries in the period between 2009 and 2017.

Official statistics show that nearly all of the main tourist source countries now have larger numbers of visitors than in 2009. (Sweden is an exception).

However, the demographics of those tourists may have changed. It seems there are less sex tourists, but more coming for family holidays and such things as the food and culture and medical tourism.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

[NamKangMan]

20 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Yes. The Patong 'city fathers' talked about that 'policy' about 10 years ago. They made it very clear that they wanted the 'sleeze' in Bangla moved away to the outskirts of Patong, and family friendly venues opened, like mini malls and shopping.

 

I remember them spreading that rumor, when the bar complex at the back of Jungceylon was built.  The rumor was, the new bar complex was where all the "sleeze" was being moved to, and once "moved" the Tiger Bar complex was going to be shut down. 

 

It fooled some, who paid top price for bars fronting the street. 

 

Then, Tiger didn't shut down, and the new complex failed. 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

However, the demographics of those tourists may have changed.

Agree, and that is certainly noticeable here in Patong where hordes of Chinese dominate the tourist numbers these days.

 

And has been said on many occasions, they are not the sort of tourists that visit bars and the like – – Big C for cheap trash, and trolley loads of it, yes, and spending in whatever Chinese -controlled "duty-free" outlets they are bussed to, and as also has been said, not much money finds its way into the pockets of the everyday working Thai or small business here, let alone the bars. 

 

However Big C are happy as their turnover is up more than 10% on last year, mostly on the back of the Chinese buying loads of the dried fruit, seaweed etc (even chocolate)...…..trolley loads!

 

On the subject of tourist numbers, I do believe this has been challenged on many occasions, however who's to know how TAT measures the numbers?

[Old Croc]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Agree, and that is certainly noticeable here in Patong where hordes of Chinese dominate the tourist numbers these days.

 

And has been said on many occasions, they are not the sort of tourists that visit bars and the like – – Big C for cheap trash, and trolley loads of it, yes, and spending in whatever Chinese -controlled "duty-free" outlets they are bussed to, and as also has been said, not much money finds its way into the pockets of the everyday working Thai or small business here, let alone the bars. 

 

However Big C are happy as their turnover is up more than 10% on last year, mostly on the back of the Chinese buying loads of the dried fruit, seaweed etc (even chocolate)...…..trolley loads!

 

On the subject of tourist numbers, I do believe this has been challenged on many occasions, however who's to know how TAT measures the numbers?

My post was about western tourists, and pointed out that the numbers hadn't declined, but that perhaps many are now coming for different reasons than the sex tourists of the past.

Obviously the Chinese have arrived in droves in recent years.

 

It shouldn't be hard to compile these sort of statistics from the computer records of arrivals. Even the Thais shouldn't get that wrong unless they have an agenda of some sort.

[LivinginKata]

54 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I remember them spreading that rumor, when the bar complex at the back of Jungceylon was built.  The rumor was, the new bar complex was where all the "sleeze" was being moved to, and once "moved" the Tiger Bar complex was going to be shut down. 

 

It fooled some, who paid top price for bars fronting the street. 

 

Then, Tiger didn't shut down, and the new complex failed. 

 

As I remember the 'city fathers' wanted  the bars and adult entertainment (sleeze) moved to the far south end of New Road. Some 'clubs' did open there but attracted mostly after work Thais in the wee small hours.  

[xylophone]

32 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

My post was about western tourists, and pointed out that the numbers hadn't declined, but that perhaps many are now coming for different reasons than the sex tourists of the past.

Obviously the Chinese have arrived in droves in recent years.

 

It shouldn't be hard to compile these sort of statistics from the computer records of arrivals. Even the Thais shouldn't get that wrong unless they have an agenda of some sort.

I could be reading the statistics incorrectly, however they seem to show that Western tourist numbers have fallen dramatically, with the UK, Australia and the Netherlands falling by 50% or thereabouts, other Western countries also showed significant declines.

 

Chinese up by eightfold or thereabouts.

 

It has been suggested that some of the statistics for tourism to the various parts of Thailand are skewed because TAT counts arrivals only, and not whether these people are staying or travelling on, and there have been many posts suggesting that TAT has an agenda because it is in their interests to inflate the numbers – –  but then again, this is Thailand so this couldn't happen of course! 

[elgenon]

The number of farangs in GoGos in BKK and Patts is way down. I keep thinking only bars that cater to Asians will survive. But, so far, new ones open up.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Old Croc said:

However, the demographics of those tourists may have changed. It seems there are less sex tourists, but more coming for family holidays and such things as the food and culture and medical tourism.

1

I'm calling BS on the stats.

Thailand has nothing for families.

It's a dangerous, lawless country full of scammers.

Nobody in their right minds would risk their children in Thailand.

[Mac98]

On 7/12/2018 at 10:49 PM, stevenl said:

First question is: are there less people in bars.

Fewer people; less value for money.

[LivinginKata]

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm calling BS on the stats.

Thailand has nothing for families.

It's a dangerous, lawless country full of scammers.

Nobody in their right minds would risk their children in Thailand.

 

While I agree 'It's a dangerous, lawless country full of scammers' I disagree that 'Thailand has nothing for families'

 

It's like any unfamiliar country in the word. Caution and a lot of common sense goes along way to preventing the pitfalls, and 'risk their children in Thailand' total BS ... What parent would drag their children into the twilight world of Thailand. My son brings his kids here and they all have a great time, early to rise and all tucked up in bed by 22,00.

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

I could be reading the statistics incorrectly, however they seem to show that Western tourist numbers have fallen dramatically, with the UK, Australia and the Netherlands falling by 50% or thereabouts, other Western countries also showed significant declines.

 

Chinese up by eightfold or thereabouts.

 

It has been suggested that some of the statistics for tourism to the various parts of Thailand are skewed because TAT counts arrivals only, and not whether these people are staying or travelling on, and there have been many posts suggesting that TAT has an agenda because it is in their interests to inflate the numbers – –  but then again, this is Thailand so this couldn't happen of course! 

 

On the point of tourist arrival statistics, it must be remembered that Phuket International Airport is a very well connected airport, for both national carriers, and budget airlines, as well as charter flights.

 

I am sure the TAT count everyone through the Phuket Airport as a "Phuket arrival" and that would probably be correct for the Chinese, but many westerners use Phuket Airport as their entry point to Thailand, not necessarily Phuket, and move on to other smaller islands, and other destinations in Thailand. 

 

These tourists are counted as Phuket tourists, when in fact, they do not even stay one night here, and therefore, spend no money here. 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

21 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

While I agree 'It's a dangerous, lawless country full of scammers' I disagree that 'Thailand has nothing for families'

 

It's like any unfamiliar country in the word. Caution and a lot of common sense goes along way to preventing the pitfalls, and 'risk their children in Thailand' total BS ... What parent would drag their children into the twilight world of Thailand. My son brings his kids here and they all have a great time, early to rise and all tucked up in bed by 22,00.

 

Like yourself, I agree and disagree with BMT's post. 

 

However, I have no doubt that the first time your son visited you here, you basically "shielded" him, or diminished exposure for him, from the many negatives on Phuket. 

 

I think it fair to say that most expats have done the same for friends and family who visit.

 

Picture a first timer here, either family, single, or a couple, with no local knowledge or support.  I am quite sure their Phuket holiday experience would be vastly different to the one you ensured your son had, his first time here.

 

Phuket used to pride itself on return visitors, not so these days.  First impressions are lasting, and it only takes one small incident, such as a drink added to your bill, a tuk-tuk driver changing the price etc etc, which causes a minor, but unpleasant interaction, and these tourists will not return. 

 

So, other than for the many reasons given above, I would also say Phuket is failing to attract return visitors, in the way it had in the past. 

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Like yourself, I agree and disagree with BMT's post. 

 

However, I have no doubt that the first time your son visited you here, you basically "shielded" him, or diminished exposure for him, from the many negatives on Phuket. 

 

I think it fair to say that most expats have done the same for friends and family who visit.

<snip>

 

 

Fair point. I remember his first time here some 20 years ago.  We were living on Nanai in Patong. He was using my then big bike and was involved on a minor skirmish with a taxi m/bike top of Nanai 2. He came rushing back to my house with police and taxi driver asking to borrow 5,000 baht to settle the damages. I spoke to the police and driver exactly what the replacement parts cost, about 200 baht. Offered 500 baht and all left happy.

 

Another time my nephew went walking in Patong some many years ago, got lost and hailed a TukTuk who charged him 500 baht for a max 10 minute ride. Idiot boy.  

[AdamTheFarang]

On 7/12/2018 at 3:05 AM, BritManToo said:

Our money (all white currencies) is worth less in Thailand, and prices (especially of women) in Thailand are a lot higher.

Lots of other countries to visit where the currency changes are little or none.

Without the lure of cheap women, no point in visiting a bar.

I still visit Thailand but drink at home.

Yes but do any of these countries have the cute softly spoken ATM sniffers who are so open to sex like it is a regular bodily function like going to the toilet.

[AdamTheFarang]

On 7/14/2018 at 3:10 AM, BritManToo said:

I don't see what's wrong with sex tourists.

Many of them end up getting married to a local lady, importing their assets and pensions, and providing education for fatherless kids.

Think of sex tourists as a Thai version of welfare for single moms.

"Think of sex tourists as a Thai version of welfare for single moms" - very true and when our money runs out we have to leave as we cannot get visa unless you want to work. Work that's for the young people who have the choice of younger girls with no kids. Who would want to work in Thailand the salaries are so low and job categories restricted. Thailand by restricting such and having to have majority Thai shareholders etc and not allowing permanent residency at least if not citizenship shows another example of racism, xenophobia 50 years behind developed nations. A foreigner can never truly be equal in Thailand by always being on a Visa. It's no life, imagine if you get ill and do not have medical cover? Even in the "Gem" of the Andaman Phuket they do not put a single shower on any beach I went to in 7 years of living there like many civilised places like Australia and Israel I both remember do, Israel even has foot showers to rinse the sand off. Billions of $ go into Thailand and they can't show respect and fit showers on the major beaches. I could go on......

•  

[LivinginKata]

18 minutes ago, AdamTheFarang said:

<snip>

 A foreigner can never truly be equal in Thailand by always being on a Visa. It's no life, imagine if you get ill and do not have medical cover? I could go on......

•  

 

So so true. I have had it 'easy' with one year extension but it is never that 'easy' on occasion. I am convinced they want to find a way to deny the extension, and I have dealt with the same officers for 20 years. 

 

I have always had BUPA private insurance even before leaving the UK (I worked abroad for years)  so we are covered, I hope.  

[AdamTheFarang]

8 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

So so true. I have had it 'easy' with one year extension but it is never that 'easy' on occasion. I am convinced they want to find a way to deny the extension, and I have dealt with the same officers for 20 years. 

 

I have always had BUPA private insurance even before leaving the UK (I worked abroad for years)  so we are covered, I hope.  

I lived in Thailand for 7 years and had enough, remember if you upset someone whose family work at Immigration you might be denied a Visa. I had a new landlady that asked for my Passport and to show off you already got my details from Immigration. They have no real concept of an advanced country with rules never mind data protection. They can change the Visa rules whenever they like but to be fair who would not want retirement people who bring in money and when their money is gone they have to leave. All take and no giving back. This is a fact I have Bupa Global but would not want to get old there in Thailand. Too insecure and all take especially where you are in Kata. I prefer Phang Nga etc. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, AdamTheFarang said:

not allowing permanent residency at least if not citizenship shows another example of racism, xenophobia 50 years behind developed nations.

1

 

Asia is sensible about foreigners.

If Britain hadn't let so many foreigners have citizenship or buy land it would be a better place now.

[AdamTheFarang]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

Asia is sensible about foreigners.

If Britain hadn't let so many foreigners have citizenship or buy land it would be a better place now.

Asia or Thailand? Thailand you will always be on a Visa so when your money runs out they kick you out by denying you a Visa, unless you want to work on low money and go through the hassle of a work permit with all the restrictions on those.....plus no medical care.....even though if you work you will be paying taxes (not sure about the last one)

[LivinginKata]

2 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

<snip>

This is a fact I have Bupa Global but would not want to get old there in Thailand. Too insecure and all take especially where you are in Kata. I prefer Phang Nga etc. 

 

What's wrong with Kata. I am much closer to true international standard hospital care than you are in PhangNga. 

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, AdamTheFarang said:

Asia or Thailand? Thailand you will always be on a Visa so when your money runs out they kick you out by denying you a Visa, unless you want to work on low money and go through the hassle of a work permit with all the restrictions on those.....plus no medical care.....even though if you work you will be paying taxes (not sure about the last one)

 

Quite a broad statement there. Annual extension is not really a Visa.  For sure one way or another we must prove income to get another year extension. Nothing wrong with that. 

 

As far as I know if have work permit and pay the social monthly money then social benefits like private health care and even a pension apply. To be honest I never tested that in my 15 years of paying Thai tax on a Thai WP as I opted out of the Social payments..   

 

Edit - we seem to have drifted a long long way from the original topic of bar popularity ... 

[AdamTheFarang]

22 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

What's wrong with Kata. I am much closer to true international standard hospital care than you are in PhangNga. 

I am not in Thailand.

[AdamTheFarang]

10 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Quite a broad statement there. Annual extension is not really a Visa.  For sure one way or another we must prove income to get another year extension. Nothing wrong with that. 

 

As far as I know if have work permit and pay the social monthly money then social benefits like private health care and even a pension apply. To be honest I never tested that in my 15 years of paying Thai tax on a Thai WP as I opted out of the Social payments..   

 

Edit - we seem to have drifted a long long way from the original topic of bar popularity ... 

Extension is that the same as Permission to stay in the Kingdom? My point is most countries you live in for 15 years you would be a citizen by now with the rights of such, to stay for ever, medical care, housing if needed, govt pension. Thailand all foreigners virtually have none of this. 

[Old Croc]

11 hours ago, xylophone said:

I could be reading the statistics incorrectly, however they seem to show that Western tourist numbers have fallen dramatically, with the UK, Australia and the Netherlands falling by 50% or thereabouts, other Western countries also showed significant declines.

 

Chinese up by eightfold or thereabouts.

 

It has been suggested that some of the statistics for tourism to the various parts of Thailand are skewed because TAT counts arrivals only, and not whether these people are staying or travelling on, and there have been many posts suggesting that TAT has an agenda because it is in their interests to inflate the numbers – –  but then again, this is Thailand so this couldn't happen of course! 

Perhaps you are reading the stats for 2018 which are obviously a work in progress. I'm comparing the complete year of 2017.

[zaZa9]

13 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I remember them spreading that rumor, when the bar complex at the back of Jungceylon was built.  The rumor was, the new bar complex was where all the "sleeze" was being moved to, and once "moved" the Tiger Bar complex was going to be shut down. 

 

It fooled some, who paid top price for bars fronting the street. 

 

Then, Tiger didn't shut down, and the new complex failed. 

I remember this clearly as I knew former staff who bought in at the back Boxing Bars.

 

I think it was just Mr Tigers crew spreading the rumour.

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Perhaps you are reading the stats for 2018 which are obviously a work in progress. I'm comparing the complete year of 2017.

You are quite right OC...…….I was looking at the latest stats which are up to May this year.

My apologies for yet another senile error, getting too many of these lately!!