Expat volunteers in Chiang Mai denied visas in work permit standoff

[tryasimight]

4 minutes ago, 1337markus said:

Seems a lot of hatred towards the volunteers here in this thread. There are always 2 sides to the story. CNX Immigration is a total failure since the new " boss" took over wanting his tea money increased from agents. This week I was caught out by the Monday holiday immigration was shut, but every other shop in the Promenada complex was open. returned Tuesday afternoon. We have Saturday, Sunday, Monday as no open days and many TM 30 people reporting. The number system, bits of paper they hand out had died they were too lazy to put recycled numbers in the spot you collect numbers from, many people walking around confused. I counted 6 IMO sitting in desks doing nothing while 2 women tried to handle the back log that grew every second.  No one that worked there helped them. people kept interrupting them with asking for a number, or what number were they up to and then there are the Thai people " dont you know who I am" jumping the queue.  For a 1 minute process I waited 3.5 hours, welcome to the 19th century.  Can we borrow some workers with a brain from the DM warehouse?

Why would That people be trying to jump the queue at immigration? 

[moontang]

1 minute ago, tryasimight said:

Why would That people be trying to jump the queue at immigration? 

landlords doing TM30.  Seen quite a few paying fines.

[Happyman58]

I think instead of Thailand being called LOS (Land Of Smiles) It should be called Land of Scammers. Unreal. Looking at what the government is doing is the right thing. Charity work is another way of getting a visa for a year. But in reality is just a scam and they prob do 1 or 2 days charity work in the year This little scam will soon make it harder for us genuine people to get a visa. Because you can bet your bottom dollar the government will soon change the rules again to make  it harder to get a visa. Instead of putting the suckers who use this scam in jail or facing deportation go after the guys and companies who put them up to it. Maybe a few in Bangkok Thailand still is one of the easiest countries in the world to get a visa and one of the cheapest. Try getting a tourist visa for your Thai wife to visit Uk or Australia and see how you go?

[TMNH]

17 hours ago, ukrules said:

This new 'head of the labour office' is clearly not following the rules or doing their job properly.

 

Report them to the main department in Bangkok and get him / her bought into line or fired.

<deleted> them......ingratitude .

[TMNH]

12 hours ago, tfc said:

If it wasn't for the "spirit" of "volunteering" expert divers from around the world wouldn't have essentially dropped what they were doing and come over to Chiang Rai to help rescue the kids trapped in the cave. 

Great point  Thai officials can be  idiotic at best. Thank God I don't live there.

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

I think instead of Thailand being called LOS (Land Of Smiles) It should be called Land of Scammers. Unreal. Looking at what the government is doing is the right thing. Charity work is another way of getting a visa for a year. But in reality is just a scam and they prob do 1 or 2 days charity work in the year This little scam will soon make it harder for us genuine people to get a visa. Because you can bet your bottom dollar the government will soon change the rules again to make  it harder to get a visa. Instead of putting the suckers who use this scam in jail or facing deportation go after the guys and companies who put them up to it. Maybe a few in Bangkok Thailand still is one of the easiest countries in the world to get a visa and one of the cheapest. Try getting a tourist visa for your Thai wife to visit Uk or Australia and see how you go?

same with the ED and Teaching visas..the scammers make it much tougher for the ligitimates,,,and somewhere along the line, some corrupt officials get their dirty fingers in it, and it just mushrooms.  Even true for the retirement extensions...all the "gamers" makes it much harder for those following the rules to the letter.

[1337markus]

8 minutes ago, moontang said:

was that for simply a new departure card/same address report?  If so, that really bites the big one.  They let those kind of play through last time, and I was out in a few minutes, but a dozen were obviously suffering.

Same address report.

[1337markus]

9 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

Why would That people be trying to jump the queue at immigration? 

they are paid by farang to report for them. Maybe should go and observe.

[SpeakeasyThai]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I can see their point, there have been loads of white foreign bogus volunteers in CM getting VISAs.

You pay an agent, they set you up with a charity, you get a 1 year VISA for turning up for 1 or 2 days.

I've known at least two guys in the past who did this (both under 50s).

There will always be a few rotton apples. By refusing them all it's nothing short of it being  a predictably tedious everyday  Thai juvanile tizzy fit. 

[Rama]

Not enough information to make an informed decision. The fact that the person reporting this won't say who these 'volunteers' are or who the organizations are gives credence to a foreigner trying to break the rules and complaining. It says they are long term volunteers, not short time volunteers. For that to happen they have to be given support from some foreign organization. There are many missionary groups that do not follow the Thai rules for registering as a non-profit religious group and try to disguise themselves as 'volunteer' organizations. Sounds like the labor dept. head is following the rules. People complaining because he won't bend the rules for them. How can you morally be a volunteer when you are without ethics???

[webcrawler00]

STOP VOLUNTEERING IN THAILAND. Go somewhere where your FREE help is appreciated!  So obvious to me! Wonder if the foreign cave rescuers also needed to stand in line to first secure a work permit. 

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

There will always be a few rotton apples. By refusing them all it's nothing short of it being  a predictably tedious everyday  Thai juvanile tizzy fit. 

A few thousand rotten apples.

[newatthis]

2 hours ago, ratchaburi said:

Thaivisa understands the labor department in Chiang Mai has not been issuing work permits for foreign volunteers, with immigration then saying "sorry, we can't issue you visas as you don't have a work permit", said the source.

 

Above don't sound right to me, as you need a to have Non B Visa before you can apply for a Work Permit.?

If they are applying for an extension of stay based on being a volunteer, it would be connected to their work permit. So, the work permit has to be applied for and granted  first.

[theonetrueaussie]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I can see their point, there have been loads of white foreign bogus volunteers in CM getting VISAs.

You pay an agent, they set you up with a charity, you get a 1 year VISA for turning up for 1 or 2 days.

I've known at least two guys in the past who did this (both under 50s).

so these guys pay a good amount of money to get a 1 year visa, They are not working in thailand and they contribute to the thai economy while costing thailand nothing. Why would you or any government have a problem with this, You are boosting your economy without having to give anything. 

[newatthis]

17 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

You couldn't make this stuff up...sheesh

 

They are trying to HELP, they are asking for NOTHING IN RETURN

 

Unbelieveable

 

17 hours ago, ukrules said:

This new 'head of the labour office' is clearly not following the rules or doing their job properly.

 

Report them to the main department in Bangkok and get him / her bought into line or fired.

 

Obviously, the labour office boss knows more about these "volunteers" then we do. Maybe, Major General "Joke" should come and do some investigating.

[tryasimight]

39 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

I think instead of Thailand being called LOS (Land Of Smiles) It should be called Land of Scammers. Unreal. Looking at what the government is doing is the right thing. Charity work is another way of getting a visa for a year. But in reality is just a scam and they prob do 1 or 2 days charity work in the year This little scam will soon make it harder for us genuine people to get a visa. Because you can bet your bottom dollar the government will soon change the rules again to make  it harder to get a visa. Instead of putting the suckers who use this scam in jail or facing deportation go after the guys and companies who put them up to it. Maybe a few in Bangkok Thailand still is one of the easiest countries in the world to get a visa and one of the cheapest. Try getting a tourist visa for your Thai wife to visit Uk or Australia and see how you go?

My wife has had quite a few tourist visas to Oz.  She now has permanent residency and will get naturalised in a couple of years.  We both live in Thai and Oz with travelling back and forth periodically. 

As long as you meet the criteria and cross the tees and dot the eyes a tourist visa is not difficult. Less than a week to be granted. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by tryasimight

[gamini]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I can see their point, there have been loads of white foreign bogus volunteers in CM getting VISAs.

You pay an agent, they set you up with a charity, you get a 1 year VISA for turning up for 1 or 2 days.

I've known at least two guys in the past who did this (both under 50s).

I met an American couple in Chiangmai who were soliciting funds for a bogus childrens home and pocketing the money. They were cought and deported.

[tryasimight]

37 minutes ago, TMNH said:

Great point  Thai officials can be  idiotic at best. Thank God I don't live there.

Us too

[tryasimight]

37 minutes ago, 1337markus said:

they are paid by farang to report for them. Maybe should go and observe.

Bit far from Surin to go and have a look.  Thanks for the invite though. 

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I can see their point, there have been loads of white foreign bogus volunteers in CM getting VISAs.

You pay an agent, they set you up with a charity, you get a 1 year VISA for turning up for 1 or 2 days.

I've known at least two guys in the past who did this (both under 50s).

True, but if the Thai authorities would just relax a bit on visas for the under fifties long term tourists, this sort of thing would not need to happen.

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, PJPom said:

Pay a lot of money and you too can become a volunteer, this has to be one of the biggest cons going. 

Unqualified and in some case totally untrustworthy people try to enter through the back door and in the process make some people very rich, about time it was clamped down on by Immigration.

Immigration going to clamp down on themselves? 

[tfc]

13 hours ago, moontang said:

just one small detail and difference:  they were highly skilled.

 

I agree - and high levels of skill come from basics practiced, trained, refined and this process sustained until those basics develop into higher levels of skill.

 

I'm not saying that everyone, even those with genuine connection to their chosen "hobby" will become experts by following that process.  Not everyone will become Olympian level but if they have genuine connection to their chose "hobby" its almost inevitable that they will progressively increase in skill.

 

That "mechanism" of development and progress goes for pretty much everything, same as for habits, good or bad.  It's repetition that builds momentum and inertia that permeates into the physiology and mind/body until it becomes natural and if one has refined their skill well then they have the opportunity to approach if not achieve a level of mastery in their skill. 

 

As for people exploiting volunteer visas that just ruins it for all the genuine volunteers.  I went off-topic in any case as this is what the OP was about.

[lvr181]

18 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

Unbelieveable

TIT!

 

Low level little "Hitlers" playing power games. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by lvr181
Additional comment

[Cowboyshoe]

Maybe we could find some long-term foreign resident willing to go on CNN and tell these volunteers to stick their charity 'where it hurts.' 

Worked out really well last time.

?

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Cowboyshoe
Sarcasm Indicator Applied

[alzack]

POLICE STATE  mentality as always

[NomadRip]

2 hours ago, ratchaburi said:

Thaivisa understands the labor department in Chiang Mai has not been issuing work permits for foreign volunteers, with immigration then saying "sorry, we can't issue you visas as you don't have a work permit", said the source.

 

Above don't sound right to me, as you need a to have Non B Visa before you can apply for a Work Permit.?

Not correct. Volunteers need a work permit issued to get an extension on their Non Immigrant O visas.

[Vacuum]

1 hour ago, 1337markus said:

CNX Immigration is a total failure since the new " boss" took over wanting his tea money increased from agents. This week I was caught out by the Monday holiday immigration was shut, but every other shop in the Promenada complex was open. returned Tuesday afternoon. We have Saturday, Sunday, Monday as no open days and many TM 30 people reporting. The number system, bits of paper they hand out had died they were too lazy to put recycled numbers in the spot you collect numbers from, many people walking around confused. I counted 6 IMO sitting in desks doing nothing while 2 women tried to handle the back log that grew every second.  No one that worked there helped them. people kept interrupting them with asking for a number, or what number were they up to and then there are the Thai people " dont you know who I am" jumping the queue.  For a 1 minute process I waited 3.5 hours,

I'm with you 100% on this.

[alzack]

only cave rescue teams apply please 

Edited August 2, 2018 by alzack

[SketchThai]

So Funny. All these people who "know" what volunteers' true intentions are. Many have a beef against other westerners, particularly religious ones. Lot's of self-righteous accusation, painting whole groups based on something you heard.

 

My brother is developmentally disabled. I have been working with this population for 25 years, earned my Masters in Social Work. I live in Thailand based on one of these visas where I don't make squat compared to most of you. I raise my money from the outside and bring it into Thailand to help disabled people. I am evangelical, which means I care about people and is also why, by the way, there are so many hospitals\foundations\etc. worldwide created by us. Thanks guys for painting me with your cynical attitudes.

 

Anyway, none of that matters. If the law says these permits should be issued, then issue them. If you have a problem with the law, then change it, legally. If the law isn't specific enough, address it, legally. Randomly reinterpreting things is so banana-republic.....

[alzack]

1 minute ago, SketchThai said:

So Funny. All these people who "know" what volunteers' true intentions are. Many have a beef against other westerners, particularly religious ones. Lot's of self-righteous accusation, painting whole groups based on something you heard.

 

My brother is developmentally disabled. I have been working with this population for 25 years, earned my Masters in Social Work. I live in Thailand based on one of these visas where I don't make squat compared to most of you. I raise my money from the outside and bring it into Thailand to help disabled people. I am evangelical, which means I care about people and is also why, by the way, there are so many hospitals\foundations\etc. worldwide created by us. Thanks guys for painting me with your cynical attitudes.

 

Anyway, none of that matters. If the law says these permits should be issued, then issue them. If you have a problem with the law, then change it, legally. If the law isn't specific enough, address it, legally. Randomly reinterpreting things is so banana-republic.....

Wow a preacher too