Boris Johnson slammed over Islamophobic comments

[bristolboy]

57 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

As you know, the koran is considered to be the word of god, not the words of a prophet. As such it is unalterable, and not open to interpretation, in the opinion of many. 

 

Reality is that there have been many interpretations and reform movements, culminating in what has been termed secular modernism (1918-1939). Since then the west's oil money has enabled the Saudi export of Wahabbism. The success of Wahabbism in exterminating liberal muslim views is startling. Wahabbism gave us 9-11, it blows up Shia mosques, the list is endless. Wahabbism is now mainstream, it's taught (at present covertly) in many UK muslim "schools".

 

It's very very sad to see well meaning but uninformed western "liberals" giving tacit support to this process through their very limited understanding of this.

You're quite right about Saudi Arabia's export of Wahabism. But your caricature of all or most Muslims as subscribers to that fanatical doctrine is quite wrong. For example your characterization of Turks living in Europe outside of Turkey as a Muslim threat is just plain nonsense.

[Naam]

2 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The World Economic Forum's 2016 Global Gender Gap Report ranked Saudi Arabia 141 out of 144 countries for gender parity.

 

And the Saudi dress code for women is symptomatic of that.

 

How any serious liberal can in any way support this is beyond belief.

your whining won't stop any dress code. ask your Mum for a cookie and a glass of hot milk.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The World Economic Forum's 2016 Global Gender Gap Report ranked Saudi Arabia 141 out of 144 countries for gender parity.

 

And the Saudi dress code for women is symptomatic of that.

 

How any serious liberal can in any way support this is beyond belief.

Saudi Arabia is not Islam. Islam is not Saudi Arabia.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

As you know, the koran is considered to be the word of god, not the words of a prophet. As such it is unalterable, and not open to interpretation, in the opinion of many. 

 

Reality is that there have been many interpretations and reform movements, culminating in what has been termed secular modernism (1918-1939). Since then the west's oil money has enabled the Saudi export of Wahabbism. The success of Wahabbism in exterminating liberal muslim views is startling. Wahabbism gave us 9-11, it blows up Shia mosques, the list is endless. Wahabbism is now mainstream, it's taught (at present covertly) in many UK muslim "schools".

 

It's very very sad to see well meaning but uninformed western "liberals" giving tacit support to this process through their very limited understanding of this.

As you clearly don't know, Orthodox Jews consider the Jewish Bible to be the literal word  of God. Not all Jews subscribe to that doctrine..

As you clearly don't know, fundamentalist Christians consider the Bible to be the inerrant word of God. Not all Christians subscribe to that doctrine.

As you clearly don't know, fundamentalist Muslims consider the Koran to be the inerrant word of God. Not all Muslims subscribe to that doctrine.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, cmsally said:

I thought according to Saudi law , women needed a males permission to travel, open a bank account, get medical treatment. I don't think they can own property either.

 

What it's like to have all your decisions made by a man

You omitted that legally a woman is less than a man. When a man dies, the daughters get less than a son.

 

However, it is true that, as in all societies, some Saudi men may have a more enlightened attitude to their significant females. On my ward there were female doctors, and they didn't cover their faces. However they came from Jeddah, which has always been more liberal. As a tourist there, I was allowed to walk around with a woman not a relative and without a chaperone. 

Depending on her father, the engineer may have been able to get permission to travel. Many Saudi women only wait to leave Saudi airspace to remove their abaya, even with their husbands present.

It's easy to forget that Saudi is ruled by the religious leaders and many ordinary Saudis hate the regime.

NB the kingdom is theoretically ruled by the monarchy, but the religious are the real power. Nothing happens without their say so.

[cmsally]

I think the original post was specifically about full face coverings. They seem symbolic of the branches of Islam that give women no rights, so why would we allow them in Europe?

[cmsally]

12 minutes ago, Naam said:

your whining won't stop any dress code. ask your Mum for a cookie and a glass of hot milk.

But we do still have the power to stop it from becoming an accepted part of European society.

[My Thai Life]

@BBboy Try reading my posts or doing some research.

 

The Saudi Wahabbist doctrine has spread to all muslim countries via a well-financed and organised campaign over 50 years. 

 

That's why women from muslim countries which never used to wear Saudi Wahabbi garb are now wearing Saudi Wahabbi garb. And that's why we're seeing a massive rise in muslim terrorism.

 

Pseudo liberals who through their ignorance tacitly support islamofascism are not helping these oppressed women.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, cmsally said:

So logically the women that claim they are wearing the face coverings of their own volition look more like they are suffering from filial Stockholm syndrome, which was my argument in the first place.

Some are so brainwashed that they voluntarily wear 2 veils and black gloves so no man not a relative can see their skin or eyes. When they go to the supermarket, they have to lift the outer veil to be able to read the label on the tins.

Had I gone into a female patients room ( except in an emergency ) their father/ husband had the right to kill me, and I was assaulted in a lift for standing too close to a woman.

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

@BBboy Try reading my posts or doing some research.

 

The Saudi Wahabbist doctrine has spread to all muslim countries via a well-financed and organised campaign over 50 years. 

 

That's why women from muslim countries which never used to wear Saudi Wahabbi garb are now wearing Saudi Wahabbi garb. And that's why we're seeing a massive rise in muslim terrorism.

 

Pseudo liberals who through their ignorance tacitly support islamofascism are not helping these oppressed women.

 

 

 

No doubt it has spread. And no doubt it is far from universal. You're the one who has repeatedly tarred all Muslims with the sins of some.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

But we do still have the power to stop it from becoming an accepted part of European society.

We passed laws stopping female genital mutilation, so we certainly can stop it in our countries. Unfortunately, IMO our leaders are too gutless to do so.

[notmyself]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but the religious are the real power. Nothing happens without their say so.

 

AKA the easily coerced.

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

@BBboy Try reading my posts or doing some research.

 

The Saudi Wahabbist doctrine has spread to all muslim countries via a well-financed and organised campaign over 50 years. 

 

That's why women from muslim countries which never used to wear Saudi Wahabbi garb are now wearing Saudi Wahabbi garb. And that's why we're seeing a massive rise in muslim terrorism.

 

Pseudo liberals who through their ignorance tacitly support islamofascism are not helping these oppressed women.

 

 

 

It seems to me that a "pseudo liberal" is one who claims to be a liberal but in reality is anything but. Like someone who explicitly claims to be liberal but actually is quite the opposite.

[cmsally]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

No doubt it has spread. And no doubt it is far from universal. You're the one who has repeatedly tarred all Muslims with the sins of some.

Seeing as the most extreme wear the full face veils , then it wouldn't effect the moderates to have it banned.

[sambum]

On 8/8/2018 at 7:47 AM, MRToMRT said:

Another calculated and staged move by Boris J - he has his eye on ousting May and copying the "Trump appeal" by playing non-muslim voters for the next election.

 

I think if he became head of Tory Party or PM it would be a sad day for centrists like myself.

Personally I think they are both buffoons, May for thinking that playing to the Muslim voters will give her "block" votes, and Boris for thinking that playing to the "anti Muslims" will do exactly the same. 

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, cmsally said:

I think the original post was specifically about full face coverings. They seem symbolic of the branches of Islam that give women no rights, so why would we allow them in Europe?

Because full face coverings "seem symbolic" they should be banned? That seems a wee bit tendentious to me.

[notmyself]

7 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Seeing as the most extreme wear the full face veils , then it wouldn't effect the moderates to have it banned.

 

What makes them extreme? Can't use number because that is a logical fallacy. 

 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

Not at all - postboxes serve a useful purpose to the community and do not sign on the dole, claim benefits, or demand different laws to the rest of the country, and are not easily offended!

[cmsally]

Covering of entire body and face, therefore concealing identity would be considered as extreme. Unless of course you consider it to be fancy dress.

[Opl]

15 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Because full face coverings "seem symbolic" they should be banned? That seems a wee bit tendentious to me.

[notmyself]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Covering of entire body and face, therefore concealing identity would be considered as extreme. Unless of course you consider it to be fancy dress.

 

I asked what made it extreme.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

Hyperbole by cartoon.

[Opl]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Hyperbole by cartoon.

[simple1]

28 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Seeing as the most extreme wear the full face veils , then it wouldn't effect the moderates to have it banned.

Considering nearly all of the anti Muslim clique on this forum claim all Muslims who follow the Islamic faith are in effect 'extreme' there must be very few Muslim extremists of the female gender i.e. extremely few wearing the niqab or burka - estimated approx 200 in Denmark, mostly lot less than 1.0% of Muslim women elsewhere in EU. However, more to the point how many Muslim women in the EU / Western countries acknowledge they are wearing face coverings because of oppression by their community? Comes across to me that most on this forum are indulging in subjective opinion, rather than facts.

 

BTW I do agree face coverings should be subject to the same laws and requirements as those wearing full face helmets which as I understand are already in force in Western countries, so what's all the fuss about?

[cmsally]

5 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

I asked what made it extreme.

I would have thought  that it was blindingly obvious!

[My Thai Life]

32 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

No doubt it has spread. And no doubt it is far from universal. You're the one who has repeatedly tarred all Muslims with the sins of some.

I have never "tarred all muslims". On the contrary, I support secular muslims. And I have called upon people on this forum who consider themselves to be liberal to try to develop a more informed view.

 

The growth of Wahabbism is undeniable. Of course it's not yet universal. A few decades ago it was just a means of the Saudi royal family to control their people. Now it's a worldwide disease.

 

These women are wearing Saudi wahabbi gear. If you think it's liberal to support that, that's your choice.

 

My choice as a lifelong liberal is to call it symptomatic of the spread of islamofascism.

 

Whether you and I agree is irrelevant. But as liberals we need to try to develop a fuller understanding of what's going on.

 

[Opl]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Considering nearly all of the anti Muslim clique on this forum claim all Muslims who follow the Islamic faith are in effect 'extreme' there must be very few Muslim extremists of the female gender i.e. extremely few wearing the niqab or burka - estimated approx 200 in Denmark, often less than 0.5% of women elsewhere in EU. However, more to the point how many Muslim women in the EU / Western countries acknowledge they are wearing face coverings because of oppression by their community? Comes across to me that most are indulging in subjective opinion, rather than facts.

 

BTW I do agree face coverings should be subject to the same laws and requirements as those wearing full face helmets which as I understand are already in force in Western countries, so what's all the fuss about?

 

It's all about "islamophobic comments"  radical islamists must be laughing their heads off

[notmyself]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

I would have thought  that it was blindingly obvious!

 

I guess we come to different conclusions as to what is extreme but I obviously use the source as a baseline. 

[cmsally]

7 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

I guess we come to different conclusions as to what is extreme but I obviously use the source as a baseline. 

So when it comes to matters of dress, what would you consider to be extreme?

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I have never "tarred all muslims". On the contrary, I support secular muslims. And I have called upon people on this forum who consider themselves to be liberal to try to develop a more informed view.

 

 

On 8/8/2018 at 4:52 AM, My Thai Life said:

Yes it does, and that is why shariah law is so disgusting. It will take women from the most regressive and repressive muslim countries (which is where we get a large number of our immigrants from) years of our liberal influence to escape their illiberal brainwashing. And lo and behold, when they do, and decide to live freely in Britain and marry an ethnic Briton, mom and pop send them to Asia and murder them.

 

Tell me Chomper, what actual experience do you have of muslims and Islam, inside or outside of the UK.

Above is  one of the foul generalizations you make about Muslims in this thread.

If you like I'll dig up worse things you've posted.