CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[cusanus]

5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I just think it’s unfair for them to freeze funds in perpetuity.  It serves no purpose and only benefits the bank.  I don’t care how much money a person has; I think it’s a sin to have funds tied up like that.  I just think IMM has finally gone too far with this arbitrary red tape.

Yes, in theory you are right and lots of us feel that way. Still, expats looking for a better country to retire in are usually faced with such a requirement. I've also been assured that those who do not have a reasonable cash buffer frequently end up costing the Thai (or other) government a great deal for various reasons, especially if they die or take gravely ill suddenly. Many of us aren't expected to live more than 5-10 more years. So, to me, anyway, it's a very reasonable requirement when faced with the kind of things I was putting up with back in the USA.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by cusanus

[hml367]

1 hour ago, cusanus said:

Yes, in theory you are right and lots of us feel that way. Still, expats looking for a better country to retire in are usually faced with such a requirement. I've also been assured that those who do not have a reasonable cash buffer frequently end up costing the Thai (or other) government a great deal for various reasons, especially if they die or take gravely ill suddenly. Many of us aren't expected to live more than 5-10 more years. So, to me, anyway, it's a very reasonable requirement when faced with the kind of things I was putting up with back in the USA.  

Cusanus,

 

May I ask who assured you regarding costing the Thai government a great deal?

[cusanus]

14 minutes ago, hml367 said:

Cusanus, May I ask who assured you regarding costing the Thai government a great deal?

No, you may not. 

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, cusanus said:

Yes, in theory you are right and lots of us feel that way. Still, expats looking for a better country to retire in are usually faced with such a requirement. I've also been assured that those who do not have a reasonable cash buffer frequently end up costing the Thai (or other) government a great deal for various reasons, especially if they die or take gravely ill suddenly. Many of us aren't expected to live more than 5-10 more years. So, to me, anyway, it's a very reasonable requirement when faced with the kind of things I was putting up with back in the USA.  

I appreciate the point you make but nonetheless I think tourist and expats account for largest portion of the country's income and should be treated accordingly instead of being subjected to ever-increasing red tape and constantly changing rules that seem totally arbitrary and often contradictory to existing ones, and not even appearing on IMM's own website (which itself is a total joke!).

 

Rules, regulations, and procedures are often so confusing that even the IMM officers can't explain them when queried, and you'll get conflicting information depending on which IMM officer you speak with!  It's just total nonsense!

 

Seriously, whoever the people are that are in charge of IMM, both on the regional level, and at the federal level are either hacks, corrupt, or both!  There is NO reason it should be that way unless they are now intentionally trying to discourage expats from settling here.

 

In contrast, I look at the situation in Vietnam with regard to Expats and it is one that clearly encourages Expats to come by making their rules, regulations, and procedures clear-cut, relatively easy and as painless as possible to comply with.

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by WaveHunter

[cusanus]

5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I appreciate the point you make but nonetheless I think tourist and expats account for largest portion of the country's income and should be treated accordingly instead of being subjected to ever-increasing red tape and constantly changing rules that seem totally arbitrary. Seriously, whoever the people are that are in charge of IMM, both on the regional level, and at the federal level are either hacks, corrupt, or both!  

If you're a farang, opinions are like <deleted>. Eveyone's got one. 

[WaveHunter]

18 minutes ago, cusanus said:

If you're a farang, opinions are like <deleted>. Eveyone's got one. 

Well, I think there is a lot of fact to back up my opinion, and I'm guessing more people feel the way I do than not, but yeah, it's just my opinion.  Nonetheless, when I see how much more efficiently and fairly things work for Expats in Vietnam, it makes me seriously wonder if staying in Thailand is worth all the needless effort.

 

Not only that but I am not here just waiting to die in 5-10 years as you stated.  I am here to live and enjoy my life to the fullest!  I don't like Thai IMM dictating what I can or can not do with my own money.  I don't like being told that I can not work (for myself) if I want to.  There's a lot of things that are making me question whether or not I will stay here.

Edited April 29, 2019 by WaveHunter

[cusanus]

9 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Well, I think there is a lot of fact to back up my opinion, and I'm guessing more people feel the way I do than not, but yeah, it's just my opinion.  Nonetheless, when I see how much more efficiently things work in Vietnam, it makes me seriously wonder if staying in Thailand is worth all the needless effort.

You get what you pay for? I've been married to a one in a million/lifetime Thai babe for 10 years with an extended family worth dying for, a very convenient and aesthetically pleasing environment, modest COL, a most luxurious nest to live out the rest of my days. If I didn't have that, I'd pack up for Vietnam, a lower cost of living, easier visa requirements, and a hectic, unhappier culture. I need no bond to live in the USA, but I wouldn't go back at gunpoint. 

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, cusanus said:

You get what you pay for? I've been married to a one in a million/lifetime Thai babe for 10 years with an extended family worth dying for, a very convenient and aesthetically pleasing environment, modest COL, a most luxurious nest to live out the rest of my days. If I didn't have that, I'd pack up for Vietnam, a lower cost of living, easier visa requirements, and a hectic, unhappier culture. I need no bond to live in the USA, but I wouldn't go back at gunpoint. 

Well, I sure can't argue with you on what you said.  One size certainly doesn't fit all.  I know some people in your situation, and I can appreciate you guys have more of a reason to put up with the craziness of IMM than I do.  You sound happy and and content, so I envy you for that ????.  

 

[cusanus]

On 4/29/2019 at 1:32 PM, WaveHunter said:

Well, I sure can't argue with you on what you said.  One size certainly doesn't fit all.  I know some people in your situation, and I can appreciate you guys have more of a reason to put up with the craziness of IMM than I do.  You sound happy and and content, so I envy you for that ????.  

Thanks, but I'd like to say as I'm sure I've said many times before that working with Thai Immigration has never been anything less for me than a very special pleasure despite the temporary overcrowding the last few years. As for setting aside the 800,000 baht reserve, that places no strain on me whatsoever and will not affect the quality of life for anyone, statistics now giving me only another seven years. Some have strenuously argued that it rightfully belongs in the USA where it originated against overwhelming opposition and where my kids would express their gratitude by pissing on my grave. For now I promise the Thai government that I'll leave only a good looking corpse and no debts 

Edited April 30, 2019 by cusanus

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, cusanus said:

Thanks, but I'd like to say as I'm sure I've said many times before that working with Thai Immigration has never been anything less for me than a very special pleasure despite the temporary overcrowding the last few years. As for setting aside the 800,000 baht reserve, that places no strain on me whatsoever and will not affect the quality of life for anyone, statistics now giving me only another seven years. Some have strenuously argued that it rightfully belongs in the USA where it originated against overwhelming opposition and where my kids would express their gratitude by pissing on my grave. For now I promise the Thai government that I'll leave only a good looking corpse and no debts 

My experiences with Thai IMM (and many others' posting in this forum as well) have been considerably different than yours, though I admit I have dealt with a few IMM officers who are decent people and try their best to be helpful, but I think there is vast room for improvement, especially in Chinag Mai since I now have yardstick to measure by since I am now in ChonBuri and the office here is quite more efficient than CM.  Nonetheless I enjoy the pithy way you make your case. ????

 

 

[cusanus]

30 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Nonetheless I enjoy the pithy way you make your case. ????

An Englishman, I presume... 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by cusanus

[Mapguy]

While not the great pleasure to visit Immigration as he expresses, I basically agree with Cusanus.

 

And I think that the financial requirements are quite reasonable.  If a foreigner can not meet those requirements, then that person really has a personal financial problem to deal with. One can be sympathetic, but the tightening up in Immigration requirements and enforcement of recent years has basically been motivated by concern with problems caused by foreigners with inadequate financial resources (not Thailand's fault) or blatant cheating (for example, many language school students and visa runners) otherwise not meeting Immigration requirements who dodge or play games with the rules.

 

Is there a bureaucratic necessity with this form or that.  Of course. Suck it up and deal with it!  Do the homework!  Or, if you are among the privileged or lazy few, use an agent.

 

As a criticism, I do find Immigration significantly behind other Thai governmental agencies in administrative expertise and efficiency.  That is a significant failure of senior management at regional and national levels.  This is particularly true of the failure of Immigration to publicise the requirements effectively.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mapguy

[Olmate]

9 hours ago, Mapguy said:

While not the great pleasure to visit Immigration as he expresses, I basically agree with Cusanus.

 

And I think that the financial requirements are quite reasonable.  If a foreigner can not meet those requirements, then that person really has a personal financial problem to deal with. One can be sympathetic, but the tightening up in Immigration requirements and enforcement of recent years has basically been motivated by concern with problems caused by foreigners with inadequate financial resources (not Thailand's fault) or blatant cheating (for example, many language school students and visa runners) otherwise not meeting Immigration requirements who dodge or play games with the rules.

 

Is there a bureaucratic necessity with this form or that.  Of course. Suck it up and deal with it!  Do the homework!  Or, if you are among the privileged or lazy few, use an agent.

 

As a criticism, I do find Immigration significantly behind other Thai governmental agencies in administrative expertise and efficiency.  That is a significant failure of senior management at regional and national levels.  This is particularly true of the failure of Immigration to publicise the requirements effectively.

I think the financial requirement to pay an agent is quite reasonable !

[EricTh]

Has anyone been to the immigration after Big Jok left?

 

For retirement visa, is the requirement reset to 3 months before extension date or do we follow the new 2 months before extension date and 3 months after?

 

Is there any changes after the new immigration head took charge?

[Ozziepat]

I cannot find an answer, so am asking in regard to required monthly deposits to meet Immigration requirements for proof of income: Can the monthly deposits be made into a *joint* Thai bank account where one name is mine and one is my wife's?

[cusanus]

40 minutes ago, Ozziepat said:

I cannot find an answer, so am asking in regard to required monthly deposits to meet Immigration requirements for proof of income: Can the monthly deposits be made into a *joint* Thai bank account where one name is mine and one is my wife's?

My understanding is that this is no longer acceptable. It must NOT be a joint account and both husband and wife need separate 800,000 amounts and/or incomes. I suppose if the deposits/income are double that might work, not sure about that. Can't guarantee this is right either, so suggest you go right to the source and ask the horse. He'll give you answer that you endorse.

Edited May 15, 2019 by cusanus

[NancyL]

It's not a big problem to set up individual accounts and then transfer the funds into a joint account to use for routine expenses.  We did that this year after I presented Imm. with a bankbook, albeit in just my name, but for a rather active account and it seemed to give the officer a headache to have to sort through all the pages to look for the deposits, even though I'd highlighted them.

 

So instead, Hubby and went to Bangkok Bank and set up two accounts, one for each, that we use just to receive our monthly overseas deposits and immediately transfer the funds out to other accounts so the poor, overworked Imm. officers don't have to waste time looking through all our transactions.

[Konini]

9 hours ago, cusanus said:

My understanding is that this is no longer acceptable. It must NOT be a joint account and both husband and wife need separate 800,000 amounts and/or incomes. I suppose if the deposits/income are double that might work, not sure about that. Can't guarantee this is right either, so suggest you go right to the source and ask the horse. He'll give you answer that you endorse.

 

I've always had a spouse visa, meaning I don't have to have my own 800,000 on deposit - 1.6m is not a problem in itself, but much more than we want to have tied up here.  This rule hasn't changed, has it?  

 

We've also been thinking about going onto income based for not the next extension but the one after because of the changes, again because of our aversion to tying up 400,000 indefinitely (in a bank that isn't government guaranteed as they are back home).  Are there any issues with the deposits coming into Thailand quarterly rather than monthly?  We have plenty of time to sort it out, and can do a direct payment to our bank here each month regardless of when we organise our super fund to pay it into our account back home, but doing 12 overseas transfers rather than 4 seems like an unnecessary expense.  Again, we'll do what is required, but it seems that things used to be so much easier. 

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, Konini said:

... (in a bank that isn't government guaranteed as they are back home).  ...

Is that a fact; that your money in a Thai bank is not protected by a guarantee like FDIC in the States?  I had no idea!  That's not too thrilling to know if it's true.

Edited May 15, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Ozziepat]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to my query re joint account deposits and Immigration requirements. It appears that a joint account is not a good idea, and as I am out of the country for an extended period of time I guess I'll just continue to monitor events from afar and in lieu of anything new to the contrary, open a new account in my name only when I return.

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Is that a fact; that your money in a Thai bank is not protected by a guarantee like FDIC in the States?  I had no idea!  That's not too thrilling to know if it's true.

Look further you will find that there is insurance on your Thai bank account with a limit that is greater than the 800,000 required by immigration.

[cusanus]

4 hours ago, Konini said:

I've always had a spouse visa, meaning I don't have to have my own 800,000 on deposit - 1.6m is not a problem in itself, but much more than we want to have tied up here.  This rule hasn't changed, has it?  

That's how I used to do it 12-14 years ago, 800,000 in a joint account was good for both myself and spouse for a retirement visa extension; however, what I've been hearing, as I said earlier, is that you cannot use a joint account anymore. And again, though I hear these are the new rules, you should go to the Immigration office and ask directly. I've done that many times over the years and never found it difficult, but then you aren't in the country right now did you say? In 2005 we brought money over in intervals bigger than monthly and it was satisfactory for all, but now it sounds like it must be strictly monthly which can be a pain.  For me, the possibility of rule changes causes anxiety. I don't want to get on the wrong side of Immigration, so it's far simpler and secure to just have separate fixed accounts with 800,000 baht each and also separate accounts for living expenses. Yes, it isn't the best return on your money, but I have a great deal more still getting great interest and if a little falls through the cracks it means very little if my extensions are safe. I'm dug in hard here and see nothing in the states but misery. 

[scottiejohn]

15 hours ago, Konini said:

Are there any issues with the deposits coming into Thailand quarterly rather than monthly?

It must be 12 monthly payments identifiable as coming from overseas.

[Konini]

11 hours ago, cusanus said:

That's how I used to do it 12-14 years ago, 800,000 in a joint account was good for both myself and spouse for a retirement visa extension; however, what I've been hearing, as I said earlier, is that you cannot use a joint account anymore. And again, though I hear these are the new rules, you should go to the Immigration office and ask directly. I've done that many times over the years and never found it difficult, but then you aren't in the country right now did you say? In 2005 we brought money over in intervals bigger than monthly and it was satisfactory for all, but now it sounds like it must be strictly monthly which can be a pain. 

We've always had an account in just my husbands' name with the 800,000 for extensions in, over the next year I gradually move cash over to an account that we use day to day, before transferring 800k from overseas in time for the next extension (so no change for us there, providing they haven't changed the requirement to 800k each).

 

Hopefully we'll be OK - but I do have a question.  Does anyone know if we have to have a full 12 months of transfers into the account before it would be accepted that we have this income every month?  We only have 6 or 7 months until it's due - would that be enough?  Anyone with experience of this?? No drama if not, but I'd rather be able to do it for the next extension.  Would they accept overseas accounts/statements?

 

 

[cusanus]

5 hours ago, Konini said:

We've always had an account in just my husbands' name with the 800,000 for extensions in, over the next year I gradually move cash over to an account that we use day to day, before transferring 800k from overseas in time for the next extension (so no change for us there, providing they haven't changed the requirement to 800k each). Hopefully we'll be OK - but I do have a question.  Does anyone know if we have to have a full 12 months of transfers into the account before it would be accepted that we have this income every month?  We only have 6 or 7 months until it's due - would that be enough?  Anyone with experience of this?? No drama if not, but I'd rather be able to do it for the next extension.  Would they accept overseas accounts/statements?

Hmmm... but how about your own extension, are you saying your husband's account covers the spousal extension? I was under the impression it didn't any more, but you had to double the 800,000. Maybe you don't need to double it. All I know is that rules have CHANGED effective March of this year and you have to have 800,000 in the account three (or is  it now two) months prior and three months after the extension day, ALSO, 400,000 minimum the rest of the year (or a combination of accounts I assume in the same name). Also, depending on the embassy, you can't use income letters anymore. Once again, I suggest going in person and asking an IO these questions (then reporting back here). 

 

[Konini]

5 hours ago, cusanus said:

Hmmm... but how about your own extension, are you saying your husband's account covers the spousal extension? I was under the impression it didn't any more, but you had to double the 800,000. Maybe you don't need to double it. All I know is that rules have CHANGED effective March of this year and you have to have 800,000 in the account three (or is  it now two) months prior and three months after the extension day, ALSO, 400,000 minimum the rest of the year (or a combination of accounts I assume in the same name). Also, depending on the embassy, you can't use income letters anymore. Once again, I suggest going in person and asking an IO these questions (then reporting back here). 

No problems with my extensions previously (I think I'm on my 6th or 7th), I always joke that I'm one of my husbands' goods and chattels because I don't count for anything.  He has a bank account in just his name, every year we transfer 1 million baht into that account, we make sure that it's over 800k for 3 months before the extension, and gradually transfer it over to our joint account during the year for spending money until it's time to do the international transfer for the next extension.  As I said, I'm just one of his goods and chattels.  I know a couple of other married people who do the same as us, both on 800k in the bank and usually the husband has the Non-O for retirement  then extensions of the same, and the wife is listed as Spouse on her visa extension stamp.

 

Providing nothing has changed in relation to the spouse extension, and I can't see that anything has changed, the new rules won't affect us so much; we will just have to be careful not to let the bank account we use for international transfers go below 400k after the now 6 months seasoning.  A tad inconvenient, but no biggie really.  We may change over to the income method (transferring minimum 65K here every month) I just need to know if you need a full year of monthly transfers before doing the extension (it's due in January, Christmas day is the absolute best time to go to immigration because nobody else is there).  Because we only have 7 months, we probably won't be able to do it next year, but if anyone knows differently, I would be grateful if they could share it.

[cusanus]

9 hours ago, Konini said:

No problems with my extensions previously (I think I'm on my 6th or 7th), I always joke that I'm one of my husbands' goods and chattels because I don't count for anything.  He has a bank account in just his name, every year we transfer 1 million baht into that account, we make sure that it's over 800k for 3 months before the extension, and gradually transfer it over to our joint account during the year for spending money until it's time to do the international transfer for the next extension.  As I said, I'm just one of his goods and chattels.  I know a couple of other married people who do the same as us, both on 800k in the bank and usually the husband has the Non-O for retirement  then extensions of the same, and the wife is listed as Spouse on her visa extension stamp.

 

Providing nothing has changed in relation to the spouse extension, and I can't see that anything has changed, the new rules won't affect us so much; we will just have to be careful not to let the bank account we use for international transfers go below 400k after the now 6 months seasoning.  A tad inconvenient, but no biggie really.  We may change over to the income method (transferring minimum 65K here every month) I just need to know if you need a full year of monthly transfers before doing the extension (it's due in January, Christmas day is the absolute best time to go to immigration because nobody else is there).  Because we only have 7 months, we probably won't be able to do it next year, but if anyone knows differently, I would be grateful if they could share it.

Terrific! Great to know that the spouse can still piggyback on the one account, it probably can still be joint for that purpose I'd wager. But from what I keep hearing, the income must now be exactly per month, that's what they keep saying here anyway if you read earlier posts. Seems a lot easier to just keep an 800,000 (or 400,000 mid year) balance. You can pick up a bit more interest keeping 800,000 in a fixed account and a different account for daily use. Nice to know that you've been enjoying Thailand for so long. My USA wife left in 2008, but we're still on friendly terms.

[Konini]

1 hour ago, cusanus said:

Terrific! Great to know that the spouse can still piggyback on the one account, it probably can still be joint for that purpose I'd wager. But from what I keep hearing, the income must now be exactly per month, that's what they keep saying here anyway if you read earlier posts. Seems a lot easier to just keep an 800,000 (or 400,000 mid year) balance. You can pick up a bit more interest keeping 800,000 in a fixed account and a different account for daily use. Nice to know that you've been enjoying Thailand for so long. My USA wife left in 2008, but we're still on friendly terms.

We were told specifically that the account had to be in my husband's name only and that they would not accept a joint account for his extension.

 

While we can pick up a bit of interest, we can make a lot more with it invested which is why I don't want to have to keep the money in a bank account.  If we have to go down that route for the next extension we will, but we'll definitely be doing the income method for the one following.

[Mapguy]

Relevant to a spouse aged under 50 being carried as a marital dependent on the other’s initial permission to stay (long stay - retirement) and extensions, has anyone encountered Chiang Mai Immigration’s policy once the dependent spouse reaches the age of 50? Is the spouse coming of age required to change status and (with financial and any other requirements) to establish independent permission to stay?


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[Vacuum]

On 5/15/2019 at 10:25 AM, Konini said:

in a bank that isn't government guaranteed as they are back home

I think it's guaranteed up to one million baht.