CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[NancyL]

9 hours ago, Thailand said:

Quite simple.

 

If you are using the 800K method season for 3 months, ignore the directives as many IO's appear to be doing.

 

If you you are using the 65K monthly minimum method assume that "leniency" ( another BJ directive) is out of the window unless proven otherwise. Funds remitted every month from overseas minimum of 65K per month to a Thai bank that will provide a letter that the funds do in fact originate from overseas. Be prepared to show the source of those funds, pension,dividends etc.

Yes, I've heard too many reports of Chiang Mai Immigration requiring an applicant to show 12 months of in-country deposits of 65,000 baht or more if using the "income method".  In other words, the applicant somehow had to know about the new regulation before it came into effect.  No more "leniency".

[NancyL]

9 minutes ago, elektrified said:

The letters are good until the end of next month. It has been reported that in some immigration offices, that the Consulate letter is all that is needed (this one last time). Not sure about Chiang Mai though. Don't see any comments about C.M. in the visa forum.

Hubby used a U.S. income letter in November and they asked him to show the source of his income.  The annual letters from SS and his former employer seemed to work.  They didn't just accept the Consulate Income Letter alone, but asked that second question that could have made him squirm.

[Bill97]

Yes, I've heard too many reports of Chiang Mai Immigration requiring an applicant to show 12 months of in-country deposits of 65,000 baht or more if using the "income method".  In other words, the applicant somehow had to know about the new regulation before it came into effect.  No more "leniency".

Is that with a Consulate letter?


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[pgrahmm]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Is that with a Consulate letter?


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The consulate letters are on their last legs....It would seem reasonable that a consulate could set up a desk with the express purpose of verifying legitimate income based on valid documentation very easily.....It would only take one dedicated clerk; and the desk would pay for itself....

 

.................... Back on topic

 

 

I just did mine this month....

 

a, I showed 1 year of BofA bank statements (2 accounts)

b, I showed one year of 65k+ deposits made into BBK bank

c, I went and got a consulate letter in December as a possible fall back insurance policy

 

The one year of bank statements were taken seriously....The consulate letter was considered....

 

<<The one year of deposits were not acceptable = they showed as "only" an in bank deposit - even though I could show the coordinated withdrawls & deposits done at the same counter @ the same time....>>

I was told that from now on they would only accept international deposits from my US bank sent directly to a Thai bank.....Anything I've seen written says we need only prove "income" - so this directly refutes that....

 

I am now sending the $$$$ that way directly from bank to bank....I have set up to be able to use BKK or SCB but will be using the BKK as the primary account for this.....

 

As I understand they are requiring this so people can't keep using the same 65R/40M over and over....

 

I was also told that the deposits have to be 12 months with no gap - even though we won't be here, (we typically can be RVing 2-8 <usually 2-4> months a year in the states), so I will have to send the $$$$ here while we are gone and then ATM it in the states to be available to use.....

 

[Mapguy]

9 hours ago, jeffandgop said:

While I was being processed I took the opportunity to ask the officer what the current rules were related to bank letters and updated passbooks. In sum, bank letters are acceptable if obtained no later than 7 days prior to applying and SAVINGS passbooks had to be updated the same day as applying with the deposit balance on both the letter and the savings passbook matching. As for FIXED accounts, bank letter up to 7 days before but he didn’t need a passbook update so long as the balances matched. He said that he examined the maturity date of the deposit and so long as it was later than the day applying for the extension of stay that was satisfactory. 

The rules noted above have been current and consistent for the many years I have been here despite all the chatter on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai.

 

The post really reveals the obvious common-sensical way of going about the business of showing your financial wherewithal if you follow the "800k Thai bhat annual plan." No fussing around. Consider for a moment what might happen, if (or when!) you go balmy, and you haven't used the basically "fail safe method" in which a Thai bank fixed deposit is rolled over automatically annually (or perhaps longer).

 

All the jazz with how many months in or out is an "accommodation" fashioned by Immigration that that strikes me as more of a complication requiring careful monitoring.  Blow it and you don't pass Go and collect $200 but fork out considerably more for a ticket back to O-A visa land. And I think expats are going to go bonkers dealing with the "accommodation" provided by the new "65k Thai monthly plan."  And so will Immigration.

 

Two months, three months there....one day here, seven days there... chasing investment return rates and parsing opportunity costs (with, of course, a perfect knowledge of changing international exchange rates!)....et cetera, et cetera!  Caution advised!  Hey!  You're supposed to be retired and enjoying life!

 

 

[Mapguy]

OUCH!

 

Just read pgraham's post above. Some officer in Chiang Mai is apparently really playing it by the book. No slack.

 

Expats are going to go nuts if they don't very carefully set things up for the so-called monthly 65k plan. As pointed out, automatic monthly international interbank transfers can be set up. (Or Western Union ??!!)

 

People using the "income method," really must set up an automatic monthly wire or other transfer with the out-of-country bank of the expat's choice as noted by pgraham.  Anyone know another option?

 

 

[cusanus]

35 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

The post really reveals the obvious common-sensical way of going about the business of showing your financial wherewithal if you follow the "800k Thai bhat annual plan." No fussing around. Consider for a moment what might happen, if (or when!) you go balmy, and you haven't used the basically "fail safe method" in which a Thai bank fixed deposit is rolled over automatically annually (or perhaps longer). Two months, three months there....one day here, seven days there... chasing investment return rates and parsing opportunity costs (with, of course, a perfect knowledge of changing international exchange rates!)....et cetera, et cetera!  Hey!  You're supposed to be retired and enjoying life!

Ain't it the truth! All my life chased pennies and duked it out to save a buck. The statistician gives me seven years more to live, but I've got enough for an eternity without the need to bang 65,000 baht 12 times a year to a Thai bank at $100 a pop. The $1,200 expense far exceeds any safe return I could get on 800,000 baht less the 1.5% for a fixed account. I'm sure there are cheaper ways to transfer, but they may or may not tickle the IO and I've got to change banks to do it. I tried that a few times, but since I no longer have a US address, I can't get an account. Now, my dad is in his nineties, I'm better looking than he ever was, so I'll probably live past 100 like all my uncles. As for the few thousand I might be able to save over the next 30 years, none of my heirs will miss it and I'm pretty sure my two kids won't live that long. If you've made it this far, you should easily be able to set aside 800,000 baht. If not, don't feel so bad, there are several other countries with a lower COL, good looking women and easier visa requirements. If Thailand prices us out, we'll go elsewhere and live just as well. Meanwhile, an asteroid may be coming and it's time to bend over and kiss yer keester goodbye anyway. 

 

[hml367]

1 hour ago, Mapguy said:

The rules noted above have been current and consistent for the many years I have been here despite all the chatter on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai.

 

The post really reveals the obvious common-sensical way of going about the business of showing your financial wherewithal if you follow the "800k Thai bhat annual plan." No fussing around. Consider for a moment what might happen, if (or when!) you go balmy, and you haven't used the basically "fail safe method" in which a Thai bank fixed deposit is rolled over automatically annually (or perhaps longer).

 

All the jazz with how many months in or out is an "accommodation" fashioned by Immigration that that strikes me as more of a complication requiring careful monitoring.  Blow it and you don't pass Go and collect $200 but fork out considerably more for a ticket back to O-A visa land. And I think expats are going to go bonkers dealing with the "accommodation" provided by the new "65k Thai monthly plan."  And so will Immigration.

 

Two months, three months there....one day here, seven days there... chasing investment return rates and parsing opportunity costs (with, of course, a perfect knowledge of changing international exchange rates!)....et cetera, et cetera!  Caution advised!  Hey!  You're supposed to be retired and enjoying life!

 

 

I went to Immigration this month for my annual permission to stay with money in the bank method.......  The bank letter and passbook were the same day, which was 2 days before the Immigration visit and it was accepted.  I asked my agent if I needed to update the passbook on the day of my visit and the agent said no. You just never know.

 

Seasoning was not a question as I had the money in the bank for quite a few months and did not use the account for any transactions until after the visit to Immigration. 

[elektrified]

17 hours ago, NancyL said:

Hubby used a U.S. income letter in November and they asked him to show the source of his income.  The annual letters from SS and his former employer seemed to work.  They didn't just accept the Consulate Income Letter alone, but asked that second question that could have made him squirm.

Thanks for the first-hand account, Nancy. I guess ubonjoe's sources are in immigration offices other than Chiang Mai. I guess at this point I won't even bother applying for my extension this year as I am certain that C.M. Imm. would not accept my proof and I would be out 1900Baht. I'll just get another type of visa.

[Lizard2010]

14 minutes ago, elektrified said:

Thanks for the first-hand account, Nancy. I guess ubonjoe's sources are in immigration offices other than Chiang Mai. I guess at this point I won't even bother applying for my extension this year as I am certain that C.M. Imm. would not accept my proof and I would be out 1900Baht. I'll just get another type of visa.

That is sad to hear

But unfortunately this is the reality with Chiang Mai Immigration

What is the Government in Bangkok doing about this

With the figures saying that not so many tourists in Chiang Mai, which is hurting businesses

You would think to keep Xpats here

But this we all know, that their is no way of understanding there way of thinking

My visa is due in the middle of July

If they bring in the medical Insurance that will be a different story

I am looking at other options to live here

Or go back home or other countries

I will do one step at a time

To see what will happen

 

 

[Thailand]

Anybody get the feeling that Chiangmai Immigration are kicking back at the expats because of the kicking BJ gave them and some of the other offices earlier this year? 

His directives seem to be flying in the wind as well.

[EricTh]

On 5/23/2019 at 8:18 AM, jeffandgop said:

Yesterday went to apply for my annual extension of stay based on retirement. It’s my seventh year doing this. 

As in all years prior I use the 800K method. I always set up a fixed account 3 months prior to my anticipated date to apply. 

 

 

Thanks for the update but did the officer mentioned anything about keeping that 800k for another 3 months AFTER you got the visa as per new rules?

 

 

[Thailand]

44 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Thanks for the update but did the officer mentioned anything about keeping that 800k for another 3 months AFTER you got the visa as per new rules?

 

 

He did not ask, they did not say but he said he will be complying with the new regulations.

[jeffandgop]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

Thanks for the update but did the officer mentioned anything about keeping that 800k for another 3 months AFTER you got the visa as per new rules?

 

 

See posts 782 & 785

[cusanus]

8 hours ago, Thailand said:

Anybody get the feeling that Chiang mai Immigration are kicking back at the expats because of the kicking BJ gave them and some of the other offices earlier this year? His directives seem to be flying in the wind as well.

Really haven't much of a clue as to what this BJ is about and afraid to ask. I do get the feeling that Immigration could be kicking back at the expats because of the attitudes people demonstrate on this forum, but I really don't have much a clue about that, either. I think it more likely it's just a result of being a sort of military minded government. Someday maybe someone could explain this whole BJ privately. He really shook them up is that what happened? Because they deserved it? And that's why there's more efficiency now? But that stepped on bigger toes? Or maybe just forget I asked.  Why do I need to know about that? 

 

[grin]

On 5/23/2019 at 7:30 PM, elektrified said:

Thanks for the first-hand account, Nancy. I guess ubonjoe's sources are in immigration offices other than Chiang Mai. I guess at this point I won't even bother applying for my extension this year as I am certain that C.M. Imm. would not accept my proof and I would be out 1900Baht. I'll just get another type of visa.

I don't think they collect the 1900 Baht until after they have accepted the application so no worries there.

 

I will be testing this scenario next month in June with the consulate letter obtained on December 27. Last year even though I had the letter I had to go home and print 3 months of bank statements which was looked at only cursorily. This was the first and only time they ever required that. So I will be taking copies of 3 months of statements with me this time.

 

In particular as I am in the U.S. quite often it seems like it might be simpler to just to start getting a Non-Immigrant Type O multiple entry visa (spouse) every year. In the past the Royal Thai Consulate in Los Angeles processed visas within 48 hours so by using a prepaid express mail return envelope it should take less than a week to get a visa.

 

So instead of parking money in a Thai bank or having to make monthly transfers and going into immigration all I have to do is mail in the visa application along with passport photos, copies of the airline ticket, a bank statement, my marriage certificate, my wife's Thai ID plus a letter from my wife. So far there has been no mention of an insurance requirement for the Non-O visa, only the Non-OA.

 

So I will report back once I have gone in. If the letter and bank statements are not enough then I guess I will go for the Non-O visa sooner than expected.

[Thailand]

11 hours ago, grin said:

I don't think they collect the 1900 Baht until after they have accepted the application so no worries there.

 

I will be testing this scenario next month in June with the consulate letter obtained on December 27. Last year even though I had the letter I had to go home and print 3 months of bank statements which was looked at only cursorily. This was the first and only time they ever required that. So I will be taking copies of 3 months of statements with me this time.

 

In particular as I am in the U.S. quite often it seems like it might be simpler to just to start getting a Non-Immigrant Type O multiple entry visa (spouse) every year. In the past the Royal Thai Consulate in Los Angeles processed visas within 48 hours so by using a prepaid express mail return envelope it should take less than a week to get a visa.

 

So instead of parking money in a Thai bank or having to make monthly transfers and going into immigration all I have to do is mail in the visa application along with passport photos, copies of the airline ticket, a bank statement, my marriage certificate, my wife's Thai ID plus a letter from my wife. So far there has been no mention of an insurance requirement for the Non-O visa, only the Non-OA.

 

So I will report back once I have gone in. If the letter and bank statements are not enough then I guess I will go for the Non-O visa sooner than expected.

The 1900 baht is payable whether the extension is granted or not.

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

The 1900 baht is payable whether the extension is granted or not.

Never heard of it occurring,have you?

[JimGant]

Bottom of TM7:

 

Quote

WHETHER PERMISSION IS GRANTED OR NOT,
APPLICATION FEE IS NON REFUNDABLE UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES

 

[XLance]

On 5/23/2019 at 8:06 PM, hml367 said:

I asked my agent if I needed to update the passbook on the day of my visit and the agent said no. You just never know.

Just did an extension based on marriage today,  first of the queue at 8am...with a bank certificate & book bank update from yesterday evening, but it wasn't enough..., had to be an update from today ????

[Vacuum]

15 minutes ago, XLance said:

Just did an extension based on marriage today,  first of the queue at 8am...with a bank certificate & book bank update from yesterday evening, but it wasn't enough..., had to be an update from today ????

If possible, use a Fixed Account instead of a savings account..

[Mapguy]

Please be specific, XLance.  Did you use a fixed deposit account (which also has a passbook) or a regular savings account passbook?  It could well make a difference.  I use a FD passbook updated when I get the bank letter, never a regular savings account passbook.  I have never in more than ten years been asked for a "same day" update.

 

While I am at it, here is some more experience with renewing an extension for retirement.

 

The last time (almost a year ago) I visited Immigration with my wife (carried as a dependent) Immigration would not process our extensions at the same time (as had been normal for more than 10 years).  And TWO original bank letters were needed:  one for me and one for her.  She had to return with an original bank letter (my FD account).

 

 

[hml367]

22 minutes ago, XLance said:

Just did an extension based on marriage today,  first of the queue at 8am...with a bank certificate & book bank update from yesterday evening, but it wasn't enough..., had to be an update from today ????

I just posted what my experience was... I know just because of my own experience does not make it true for everyone.  The reason I asked the agent if I had to update is because of the different reports.

[XLance]

14 minutes ago, hml367 said:

I just posted what my experience was... I know just because of my own experience does not make it true for everyone.  The reason I asked the agent if I had to update is because of the different reports.

yes, just my experience as well, I only saw your post afterwards. I thought that an update less than 12h before would be enough ????

 

19 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Please be specific, XLance.  Did you use a fixed deposit account (which also has a passbook) or a regular savings account passbook?  It could well make a difference.

Possible that it makes a difference. It was a savings account.

 

19 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

I have never in more than ten years been asked for a "same day" update.

I have been asked that in Promenada last year as well (the update was a couple of days old), it wasn't much an issue there because banks were upstairs in the mall. Here, I just drove to the bank, did an update, copy and gave it to them 30 min later to complete the already submitted file, so no big deal really.

[Mapguy]

There was a well-written explanation a few pages ago pointing out the difference in using a fixed deposit account book and a savings account book.  Basically it explained that Immigration is suspicious of people playing games with concurrent bank letter (good for 7 days) and savings passbook update.  Immigration is not so suspicious of a FD account.

[rawhod]

Retirement extension today (27/05/2019) at CM Immigration

Arrived at 0750hrs, the staff were outside for the National Anthem parade. Went to the counter to get my document check, only problem was that I had completed my TM7 partially in black so I had to complete another in blue ink. Whilst completing the form, the National Anthem was played, then back to the checking counter and was given ticket P2.

 

At 0815 hrs P2 was called to counter 8.

The IO checked all the documents. 

 

I was using a British Embassy Income letter obtained late December last year which he accepted with no question. He did, however, ask for proof of the income stated in the letter. I had anticipated this and had copies of the documents which I had submitted to the British Embassy. He checked them and attached them to the wad of papers.

He took my money and attached it to the receipt. Then he took my picture. He gave me two documents to sign, a STM 2 -  Acknowledgement of terms and conditions for permit of temporary stay in the Kingdom of Thailand, and a copy of the computer photo which he had just taken.

 

At 0830 he asked me to sit and wait for my name to be called.

 

At 0850 my name was called, and my passport, with extension, and the receipt and change were handed over and I was finished.

Remarkably quick and trouble free.

[Thailand]

45 minutes ago, rawhod said:

Retirement extension today (27/05/2019) at CM Immigration

Arrived at 0750hrs, the staff were outside for the National Anthem parade. Went to the counter to get my document check, only problem was that I had completed my TM7 partially in black so I had to complete another in blue ink. Whilst completing the form, the National Anthem was played, then back to the checking counter and was given ticket P2.

 

At 0815 hrs P2 was called to counter 8.

The IO checked all the documents. 

 

I was using a British Embassy Income letter obtained late December last year which he accepted with no question. He did, however, ask for proof of the income stated in the letter. I had anticipated this and had copies of the documents which I had submitted to the British Embassy. He checked them and attached them to the wad of papers.

He took my money and attached it to the receipt. Then he took my picture. He gave me two documents to sign, a STM 2 -  Acknowledgement of terms and conditions for permit of temporary stay in the Kingdom of Thailand, and a copy of the computer photo which he had just taken.

 

At 0830 he asked me to sit and wait for my name to be called.

 

At 0850 my name was called, and my passport, with extension, and the receipt and change were handed over and I was finished.

Remarkably quick and trouble free.

Was your "income" pension or otherwise?

[rawhod]

4 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Was your "income" pension or otherwise?

Pension...

Two sources.

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, rawhod said:

 

At 0850 my name was called, and my passport, with extension, and the receipt and change were handed over and I was finished.

Remarkably quick and trouble free.

You're lucky you got the letter in Dec.

 

Next year, it won't be 'quick and trouble free'. You have to deposit 800k or transfer income for 12 months.

[Mapguy]

2 hours ago, XLance said:

yes, just my experience as well, I only saw your post afterwards. I thought that an update less than 12h before would be enough ????

 

Possible that it makes a difference. It was a savings account.

 

I have been asked that in Promenada last year as well (the update was a couple of days old), it wasn't much an issue there because banks were upstairs in the mall. Here, I just drove to the bank, did an update, copy and gave it to them 30 min later to complete the already submitted file, so no big deal really.

XLance, Yes, a regular passbook savings account must, if they still play by the rules I have followed for years, basically requires a same-day update. I recall, some folks having to rush off to a kiosk to update, then return to Immigration.  Pain in the butt for those folks but doable. I believe some officers have given some (one-day) slack over the years from time to time, but I wouldn't count on it now. Immigration has become understandably annoyed at some of the dodgy games people have played.

 

A fixed deposit of Bt800k does NOT require (at least in any accurate report I have seen and in my own experience) a same-day update and can be done  conveniently when you get a bank letter (within 7 days of a visit to Immigration).  I have written above somewhere about that.  Or, if super cautious, you can do it on an ATM machine on the way to Immigration.

 

I believe that Bangkok Bank automatically renews an existing fixed deposit account at whatever the going interest rate is at renewal time. A good safety feature. 

 

Otherwise, some people seem to prefer chasing their last bhat (dollar, pound, yen, or DM)  of interest elsewhere up until their witching month of renewal, which safely is (arguably) two or three months ahead of the their extension renewal date. I believe three months is certainly on the side of caution. That's up to them, but not a peace-of-mind approach in my view.  Potentially such people could end up (by accident or oversight) not making the "deadline" for adequate seasoning of the Bt800k. Then it is back to Go  and don't collect $200.