BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Esso49]

To be clear it is not the British Ambassador to blame for this fiasco.  It is a "jumped up" consular official who decided to not only to publish false information via emails, she also decided to be obstructive.   I would suspect that once this matter gets investigated by a higher authority we shall see a constructive conclusion and the incompetent official responsible recalled to the UK.

[wgdanson]

26 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Providing a self-declaration does not meet this requirement.

Unless you are American, Australian, Dutch etc etc. Just one by Brits does not.

[wayned]

6 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

To be clear it is not the British Ambassador to blame for this fiasco.  It is a "jumped up" consular official who decided to not only to publish false information via emails, she also decided to be obstructive.   I would suspect that once this matter gets investigated by a higher authority we shall see a constructive conclusion and the incompetent official responsible recalled to the UK.

Does this "jumped up" consular offical work for the Ambassador?  If the Ambassodor supports him then the Ambassador is responsible, the buck stops there!

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, wayned said:

Does this "jumped up" consular offical work for the Ambassador?  If the Ambassodor supports him then the Ambassador is responsible, the buck stops there!

I agree that the Ambassador would have overall responsibility but it is the consular official who originated this shitstorm originally so hence must be held primarily responsible.  And it is a She , not a him !

[wgdanson]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

just showing monthly transfers into your Thai bank account to prove adequate income

Is that acceptable by Immigration?

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

 

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

I agree that the Ambassador would have overall responsibility but it is the consular official who originated this shitstorm originally so hence must be held primarily responsible.  And it is a She , not a him !

Who is it?  You seem to know. 

[Pib]

Is that acceptable by Immigration?

Nope...not without the primary required embassy letter.

[wayned]

11 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Is that acceptable by Immigration?

Not at Nakhon Sawan, I asked last week.  They only accept bank letters and bank books that show seasoned funds for marriage and retirement extensions.

[Expattaff1308]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Is that acceptable by Immigration?

Not As Yet Despite the Embassy Website saying as much

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Who is it?  You seem to know. 

The person who has responded via various emails appears to be the Deputy Consular Official Sarah Penn.  However I have seen no documentary evidence to confirm that she was indeed the person who was involved in the face to face meeting with Thai Immigration that she has confirmed by email purportedly happened.  Again I will say that the real truth as to whom attended those meetings, what was said etc will only be known once the FCO release the information requested under the Freedom of Information Act. If, as I suspect their are irregularities then I would expect to see resignations or as a minimum transfer of posting, But until we find out the real facts it is all conjecture.

[Esso49]

6 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Not As Yet Despite the Embassy Website saying as much

So by your earlier post you have included within your statement "it can still be perceived that we are confirming".  Therefore by using the term WE it indicates you are part of the Embassy staff.

 

Please confirm or deny so we are aware as to which authority we are discussing these issues

 

 

All posters to this forum please Note !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Esso49

[Expattaff1308]

1 minute ago, Esso49 said:

The person who has responded via various emails appears to be the Deputy Consular Official Sarah Penn.  However I have seen no documentary evidence to confirm that she was indeed the person who was involved in the face to face meeting with Thai Immigration that she has confirmed by email purportedly happened.  Again I will say that the real truth as to whom attended those meetings, what was said etc will only be known once the FCO release the information requested under the Freedom of Information Act. If, as I suspect their are irregularities then I would expect to see resignations or as a minimum transfer of posting, But until we find out the real facts it is all conjecture.

As per this so called meeting I have heard two different versions, the official one from Sarah Penn that they were asked to verify income, another that I read was that the Imm asked them to scrutinise the income docs more closely before issuing the letter and if in doubt make further enquiries.

Another version of course is the so called FCO Audit, where the auditor asked if there was another way British Nationals could prove their income and the reply was Yes through Bank Statements hence the removal of the Embassy letter....

All comes down to what is the correct version of events.

[Expattaff1308]

The email to complain about Consular services..

http://[email protected]

[CharlieH]

Off topic removed.

 

Please try to stay on topic.

[Expattaff1308]

9 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

As my post in another thread please confirm or deny that you are in fact part of the British Embassy staff ?

<deleted> what a question I have been complaining bitterly to the Embassy. Deny, I have made several representations complaining about the withdrawal of the service and when I get a reply from the embassy I post the response. I have written to the FCO, Embassy and complained about the service or lack of it...what have you done? I am a retired Brit living in Udon Thani, If you read it properly the post reads My latest reply from our helpful Embassy

Edited October 24, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[Carib]

2 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

read WAKE UPs post about 10 minutes ago. Confusing.

You mean this one: 

 

[Esso49]

10 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

So by your earlier post you have included within your statement "it can still be perceived that we are confirming".  Therefore by using the term WE it indicates you are part of the Embassy staff.

 

Please confirm or deny so we are aware as to which authority we are discussing these issues

 

 

All posters to this forum please Note !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Apologies for my oversight as I did not go back far enough in the thread. Please forgive me sir your humblest British servant 

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, Carib said:

You mean this one: 

 

Yes!

[Esso49]

3 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

<deleted> what a question I have been complaining bitterly to the Embassy. Deny, I have made several representations complaining about the withdrawal of the service and when I get a reply from the embassy I post the response. I have written to the FCO, Embassy and complained about the service or lack of it...what have you done? I am a retired Brit living in Udon Thani, 

Already posted my apology another reply and I sincerely beg for you forgiveness and deserved to be thrashed for my oversight in this matter.  Nice to hear you are, like me, living in Udon Thani. I likewise am awaiting replies from the FCO.

[Expattaff1308]

3 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Already posted my apology another reply and I sincerely beg for you forgiveness and deserved to be thrashed for my oversight in this matter.  Nice to hear you are, like me, living in Udon Thani. I likewise am awaiting replies from the FCO.

here is the email to complain about the consular service or in this case lack of it.

http://[email protected]

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, wayned said:

Not at Nakhon Sawan, I asked last week.  They only accept bank letters and bank books that show seasoned funds for marriage and retirement extensions.

The Us Embassy and many others also have a blank affidavit in which a person writes in  a statement and swears to it under Oath just like the income letter.  The income letter was developed as a courtesy to applicants but one could simply use a blank affidavit and write in- I, the undersigned  have a monthly income/yearly of XXX Amount from the following sources (list them)   The embassy signs the form under Oath. One could take this to Thai Imm with  a Pension letter; a social security or Veterans Disability letter and the bank account statement- 3 months printout clearly showing  the amounts in and debits out or if one transfer money where it goes.  A further backup is  ATM cards from your overseas bank as well as ATM slips.

 

I have used the blank affidavit to state income related things and support income for such entities as the US Internal Revenue service; a Private Pension Provider ; a US Court and simply to make a statement under Oath for another matter. All were accepted as genuine and true.  Maybe they checked further on the US end but no matter- simply like the Thai Imm can check further by perusing multiple documents

 

The concept of certification is misunderstood by everyone.  Thai Imm thinks  the Embassy Letter is certification and in a way it is because when you sign under penalty of perjury- if you lie- you have committed a crime.  The back up proof  can be asked for and if one provides what I state above- it has been accepted in the past- so Imm offices understand what these items are.

 

BE's excuse that Thai Imm believes they are certifying income is ridiculous-  an affidavit system sworn to by a participant would suffice as long as an Oath is taken.  Instead BE has found a way out oi having to do the letter instead of simply doing an Affidavit and letting Thai Imm decide if they will continue to accept the letter or change the law and issue a new police order.

 

The  situation can be resolved between any Embassy and Thai Imm by sitting down and explaining the concept of Data Protection and  Privacy Acts of various countries. . Everyone uses printouts of information and then added info on top of that which when taken together come up with  a good amount of certainty.  But when you use an affidavit and have the person sign under Oath- that makes them subject to a crime and that makes those who think about forging documents usually stop.

 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

Just now, Thaidream said:

The Us Embassy and many others also have a blank affidavit in which a person writes in  a statement and swears to it under Oath just like the income letter.  The income letter was developed as a courtesy to applicants but one could simply use a blank affidavit and write in- I, the undersigned  have a monthly income/yearly of XXX Amount from the following sources (list them)   The embassy signs the form under Oath. One could take this to Thai Imm with  a Pension letter; a social security or Veterans Disability letter and the bank account statement- 3 months printout clearly showing  the amounts in and debits out or if one transfer money where it goes.  A further backup is  ATM cards from your overseas bank as well as ATM slips.

 

I have used the blank affidavit to state income related things and support income for such entities as the US Internal Revenue service; a Private Pension Provider ; a US Court and simply to make a statement under Oath for another matter. All were accepted as genuine and true.  Maybe they checked further on the US end but no matter- simply like the Thai Imm can check further by perusing multiple documents

 

The concept of certification is misunderstood by everyone.  Thai Imm thinks  the Embassy Letter is certification and in a way it is because when you sign under penalty of perjury- if you lie- you have committed a crime.  The back up proof  can be asked for and if one provides what I state above- it has been accepted in the past- so Imm offices understand what these items are.

 

BE's excuse that Thai Imm believes they are certifying income is ridiculous-  an affidavit system sworn to by a participant would suffice as long as an Oath is taken.  Instead BE has found a way out oi having to do the letter instead of simply doing an Affidavit and letting Thai Imm decide if they will continue to accept the letter or change the law and issue a new police order.

 

The  situation can be resolved between any Embassy and Thai Imm by sitting down and explaining the concept of Data Protection and  Privacy Acts of various countries. . Everyone uses printouts of information and then added info on top of that which when taken together come up with  a good amount of certainty.  But when you use an affidavit and have the person sign under Oath- that makes them subject to a crime and that makes those who think about forging documents usually stop.

 

interesting. what if i sign such a document without an oath? recently when i opened a bank account they made me sign a document stating my income and net worth, and than sign :"i hereby confirm that all the above is true". can this de used against me in court? will it be a crime if i stated wrongly?

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

nteresting. what if i sign such a document without an oath? recently when i opened a bank account they made me sign a document stating my income and net worth, and than sign :"i hereby confirm that all the above is true". can this de used against me in court? will it be a crime if i stated wrong

Only a lawyer can answer that question..

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

interesting. what if i sign such a document without an oath? recently when i opened a bank account they made me sign a document stating my income and net worth, and than sign :"i hereby confirm that all the above is true". can this de used against me in court? will it be a crime if i stated wrongly?

What country was the bank in?  If Thailand what bank?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

 

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What country was the bank in?  If Thailand what bank?

bangkok bank

[Kadilo]

23 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Yes!

So this, if true, is more or less in line with that the BE lady said in the radio interview. 

It swings from one thing to another. 

[wgdanson]

58 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Unless you are American, Australian, Dutch etc etc. Just one by Brits does not.

Although WAKE UPs recent post could render this post of mine partly incorrect.

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

So this, if true, is more or less in line with that the BE lady said in the radio interview. 

It swings from one thing to another. 

Except that the lady Wake Up spoke with at CW told him that showing 65k into a Thai Bnak account will suffice next time. The BE lady did not.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

 

bangkok bank

Why would they ask your income?  Were you getting a loan? I've opened 10 bank accounts at Bangkok Bank and they never asked me my income or net worth.  Seems odd.  What kind of form required that?