BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just stepping back from the details of the British Embassy announcement for a moment, has it occurred to others here whether the timing of this latest kerfuffle is merely coincidental with Big Joke (Prawit's man) taking over as head of Immigration, or perhaps NOT!  And Prawit being in the news just in the past day saying how he'd ordered Immigration to quickly deport anyone found on visa overstay. And Joke's track record of visa overstay raids.

 

If one were reading the tea leaves lately, it wouldn't be too hard to conclude that there's a definite anti-foreigner campaign/shift underway. Add into that the police's recent verbal and threatened legal assault on the British teenager's KT rape allegations.  And various other foreigner in the news prosecutions, including again just today --"Tourist Police and Immigration step up checks on foreigners living in Bangkok."

 

I don't know that such a change of government sentiment is occurring/has occurred. But it might not be too hard to conclude that it is/has.  It's one thing when the government/Immigration proclaims "Good guys in, bad guys out," which in the real world is a joke with loads of actual foreign criminals running around Thailand untouched. But depending on whether Thai Immigration starts demanding new and onerous forms of income documentation, it may well result in a lot of "good guys out" as well.

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mfd101]

There is an election in the offing ...

[Rally123]

Anyone who came to Thailand without a plan B deserves what they get. I'm sorry, but that's life. I show my bank letter of required monies on the day I get my extension. How long before an expat goes to his embassy for a confirmation letter does it have to be before he acquires his extension?  All being equal it should be the same day.   

[Shoeless Joe]

39 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I haven't seen ubonjoes response although I have tried searching, can you direct me to his post please

Ow! Without going through all the pages - CharlieH on pages 2, 3 amd 5 and UbonJoe on pages 2 and 6. Also scattered throught the thread are some good observations from Joe Mcseismac and Giddyup.

 

Joe

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Anyone who came to Thailand without a plan B deserves what they get. I'm sorry, but that's life. I show my bank letter of required monies on the day I get my extension. How long before an expat goes to his embassy for a confirmation letter does it have to be before he acquires his extension?  All being equal it should be the same day.   

Bank letters need to be very fresh. Some offices same day. Most offices allow going back a few days, maybe a week. 
Embassy income letters on the other hand can be as old as six months.

[Rally123]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

There is an election in the offing ..

And? As if immigration laws play a part in any getting the populace to decide on how to vote.

[Rally123]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Embassy income letters on the other hand can be as old as six months.

Totally wrong. And that I see as the reason for the change.    One rule for all.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Rally123

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Just stepping back from the details of the British Embassy announcement for a moment, has it occurred to others here whether the timing of this latest kerfuffle is merely coincidental with Big Joke (Prawit's man) taking over as head of Immigration, or perhaps NOT!  And Prawit being in the news just in the past day saying how he'd ordered Immigration to quickly deport anyone found on visa overstay. And Joke's track record of visa overstay raids.

 

If one were reading the tea leaves lately, it wouldn't be too hard to conclude that there's a definite anti-foreigner campaign/shift underway. Add into that the police's recent verbal and threatened legal assault on the British teenager's KT rape allegations.  And various other foreigner in the news prosecutions.

 

I don't know that such a change of government sentiment is occurring/has occurred. But it might not be too hard to conclude that it is/has.  It's one thing when the government/Immigration proclaims "Good guys in, bad guys out," which in the real world is a joke with loads of actual foreign criminals running around Thailand untouched. But depending on whether Thai Immigration starts demanding new and onerous forms of income documentation, it may well result in a lot of "good guys out" as well.

 

I don't find this too far fetched, I wrote a post some time ago about new hoops to jump through when 'big joke' became boss but I still think this is a British inefficiency problem, the muddle through attitude, like the Tory election, the brexit vote, it will be alright on the night negotiations with the EU, the Thais have caught them out.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Rally123 said:

And? As if immigration laws play a part in any getting the populace to decide on how to vote.

Immigration policy is often a hot button political issue in many countries. But I think in the context of this thread, any connection is just speculation and if there is political news on that front, it would better discussed if and when that actually occurs. 

[cyberfarang]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Huh?
Immigration has always required copies of bank books showing the last three months for the 800k method. Nothing new. They need to check if the money has been seasoned.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You haven`t understood my post.

 

At present immigration will accept a bank book showing 400K or 800K has been in the bank for the prescribed 3 months or 2 months if first application.

 

In my case I have a bank account specifically for my bulk savings that I also use for immigration purposes that I don`t touch, which means the balances beside interest remains the same.

 

In the future immigration may insist on seeing alternative bank accounts that shows monies going in and out if that`s not the main bank account with the prescribed amounts. 

 

 

 

 

[cleopatra2]

36 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thanks, I think this may have something to do with the whole thing. Other countries letters (declarations/affidavits) are written/signed by the claimant and the consulate witnesses the signature etc.

One is a letter from a consulate, the others are letters from the individual applying for the visa.

Immigration can ask an individual for more proof, they cant ask the consulate for more proof (what the OP says)

 

14 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I think that's getting close to the answer. The Brit Embassy has been preparing letters, as it were in its own name, vouching for the accuracy of accompanying docos - something it's not really equipped or resourced to do.

 

Other embassies - certainly the OzEmb where I did my annual visit a couple of weeks ago - just WITNESS your stat dec or affidavit. Which means that the Embassy vouches for nothing beyond YOUR signature on a doco - a MUCH less onerous responsibility, from a legal point of view.

 

I shall be at Kap Choeng for my annual renewal on grounds of retirement in 2 days from now. Will report on anything new or unusual there. I'm taking my BKK Bank book with me, along with a pile of atm slips (both BKKBk and Citibank in BKK). I'm not expecting to need them but we shall see.

 

 

This would require the British Embassy method of demonstrating income via bank account transfers to be an accepted procedure now. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Rally123 said:

Totally wrong. And that I see as the reason for the change.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Most retirees are using lifetime pensions as their stated income. If the system was LOGICAL here, as it is in most nations that do have programs for retired expats, documentation of income like that would be needed only ONE time.

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Totally wrong. And that I see as the reason for the change.

Not wrong. It is correct. Embassy letters are good for 6 months.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

You haven`t understood my post.

 

At present immigration will accept a bank book showing 400K or 800K has been in the bank for the prescribed 3 months or 2 months if first application.

 

In my case I have a bank account specifically for my bulk savings that I also use for immigration purposes that I don`t touch, which means the balances beside interest remains the same.

 

In the future immigration may insist on seeing alternative bank accounts that shows monies going in and out if that`s not the main bank account with the prescribed amounts. 

 

 

 

 

Again that is paranoid.

That would assume a radical change in official immigration policies requiring IMPORT of 800K per year. You're making an absurd LEAP from this British embassy news, major as it is, to that. 

I will grant of course that any change is possible, including booting out all the retired expats here, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

This change has nothing to do with 800K bank account applications. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

There is an election in the offing ...

I don't think Brits or other farang are high on the average Thai radar but if then we are rather seen as a cash cow who shouldn't leave the pasture.

[Thaidream]

14 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

400000 baht marriage extension or the 800000 baht retirement extension methods, that they will also want to see bank books showing money going in and out dating back 3 or 6 months to establish how applicants are financially supporting themselves in Thailand.

 

So for those working illegally or running illegal businesses in Thailand to obtain income, the game could soon be up.

 

Be prepared.

They can ask for whatever they want but showing a Thai bank book is not the only way I can bring money into Thailand and I can prove it originated overseas-  Travelers checks;  Stamped proof of fixed account from any country; cash with declaration at Thai Airport when entering.  ATM slips from a Thai ATM showing  amounts and dates; bringing in gold bullion and declaring it; bringing in precious other metals and declaring it.

 

A simple declaration from one;s Embassy with the backup proof in the way of  Pension letters; Tax Documents etc would suffice- If Thai Immigration wants other info let them state explicitly what they want- I am sure the majority can and will comply. In addition- I want the police order that changes the requirements wreitten in Thai so I can comply.  Waiting!!!

[Rally123]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Embassy letters are good for 6 months.

And that being the reason to change. I can't show monies in my bank account from 6 months ago. So why can you?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I don't think Brits or other farang are high on the average Thai radar but if then we are rather seen as a cash cow who shouldn't leave the pasture.

Probably not, but if there a crackdown on corruption, the way some extension applicants are getting it done could certainly be a potential target. But that's a matter of visa agents, not embassy letters. This topic is about a major change in embassy income letters for Brits. Not visa agents. 

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Ow! Without going through all the pages - CharlieH on pages 2, 3 amd 5 and UbonJoe on pages 2 and 6. Also scattered throught the thread are some good observations from Joe Mcseismac and Giddyup.

 

Joe

 

Thankyou

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

And that being the reason to change. I can't show monies in my bank account from 6 months ago. So why can you?

Can someone translate? 

[melvinmelvin]

6 hours ago, mfd101 said:

It's pretty obvious that, whatever it was called and whatever the Thai authorities thought or think (assuming they do), the annual declaration of income could not possibly be verified by ANY embassy even though you produce documents in support. Embassies are not a detective force. All ANY of them have ever done in reality is to witness YOUR signature on some form of affidavit or statutory declaration, with or without some supporting doco.

 

If the Thais NOW want REAL proof of income, then demonstration of funds moving more or less regularly into Thailand will be the only way to do it, I should think. Whether those funds have to touch down in a Thai financial institution is an interesting question. In my case, since my large-scale movement of funds for house building ended 18 months ago, I almost invariably use BKK Bank atms to debit from my Australian accounts for daily living funds. These rarely go into my BKK Bank account - I just take the cash & run. When I'm in BKK, I use Citibank atms so no cash touches down in a Thai institution.

 

But of course, I'm still bringing funds into Thailand & spending them here ...

you make a very good point in your first paragraph

 

my embassy and CoR, certificate of residence, or proof of address:

 

they issue an A4 sheet with plenty of crest and signatures and stamps

and the juice being:

 

Mr pip pip, passport#nnn, has informed the embassy that he resides at the following address;

...

...

 

and Thai authorities are overjoyed

although the document ain't worth <deleted>

 

[Rally123]

1 minute ago, hyku1147 said:

It is called Nationalism.

And? You lost me.

[tropo]

The price was increased to 2K this year I believe. Can't remember what it was before, but it was a pittance compared to 2000 baht.

It’s AUD 71 converted into baht at start of month. Currently about 1700 baht. Prior to 1 January 2017 it was around 500 baht.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, hyku1147 said:

It is called Nationalism.

One of the roots of all evil. 

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

It is called Nationalism.

getting our country back? I've heard that before somewhere, how does it feel to be a refugee ?

[Shoeless Joe]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Can someone translate? 

I think the point that Rally123 is making is that if you are showing to the immigration authorities that you have 800,000 baht in the bank they want you to show that it is "seasoned" money and that (I think) it's in the account on the day you go for your visa renewal. On the other hand if you are presenting a letter of "certification of income" from your embassy, the letter (and the information) is valid for 6 months. Which does seem a little strange when comparing one process with the other.

 

Joe

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Shoeless Joe

[Mark1066]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I actually think that's paranoid. You can keep that 800K untouched if you want. The seasoning requirement is strictly enforced. I'm not seeing any connection between this British embassy kerfuffle over INCOME based applications and full 800K bank account applications. 

Neither am I but it's something I've thought about in the past, paranoid or not. If they truly want to get rid of expats with an income obtained illegally in the country, this would seem to be one of the easiest ways to achieve that aim. Depositing a sum of money and leaving it in a bank account does nothing to prove that we are funding our living expenses from overseas.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

I think the point that Rally123 is making is that if you are showing to the immigration authorities that you 800,000 baht in the bank thet want you to show that it is "seasoned" and that (I think) it's in the account on the day you go for your visa renewal. On the other hand if you are presenting a letter of "verification of income" from your embassy, the letter (and the information) is valid for 6 months. Which does seem a little strange when comparing one process with the other.

 

Joe

 

Not strange at all.

One is showing an active bank account.

The other is showing long term income streams.

Again, in MOST cases retired expats income is based on government pensions which are FOR LIFE.

One time should be enough. In most countries having retirement programs for foreigners, it is. 

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

They want to see proof that the money comes into Thailand. That is the whole point of these visas; to make money for Thailand. Otherwise, what is to stop you borrowing money for a day, get this copied and then live on 10,000 Bt a month?

That's exactly how the "agent" system works.  Pay an agent (who passes on some of the money), and the "seasoning" requirement magically disappears.  I would bet that the agent money-train is the primary motivation for any changes in this area.

 

4 hours ago, Esso49 said:

I see that but so are many of the so called visa agents running scams , and that is not going to stop, rather than increase their business

2 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

These people will be driven into the arms of the dodgy visa agents at 30k each year.

In Thailand, where there's a will, there's a way and a Thai business that will make money from it.

Yes.  There is no logical reason to do this, so just follow the money.
 

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

I disagree. I think you will see these agents gradually disappearing.

Consider how much money going into certain people's pockets that would affect, and what they might do to protect their income-stream.

 

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

Border immigration were charging an extra 300 baht to allow entry, that little earner has now been stopped. Just because they have been getting away with it for years doesn't mean it will continue. Time will tell.

... in Sadao?  I heard 100 to 200 Baht, not nearly enough to pay high enough up the chain to prevent a crackdown.  Poipet/Aranya was asking for a small fortune, according to a couple recent reports.  A stable scheme would require sufficient funds to pay to the top of the pyramid-scheme - like agent or school facilitated extensions.

 

Being on the lower marriage-requirement, I will be unaffected by a rule-change in how income is demonstrated.  My issue is wanting all offices to follow the written rules - instead of making-up rules (sometimes to force agent-use).  If that happens at the same time, it will be a net-positive in my world - though I am sad for those with a life here, retired, and living on 40K or so.

 

2 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

...(or who do have the money but refuse to transfer enough of it to a Thai bank account)

That is key.  The rules say "income" - not "min-income of X, of which ALL must be transferred to Thailand."  It seems like a rule-change would be necessary to take this step.

 

2 hours ago, smedly said:

I find it hard to understand how some people are living here without money in Thailand

They don't - if they eat and sleep indoors here - which is why this is so silly.  Given there are no handouts to foreigners, exactly is the concern?  I recall a story of some young guy busted for "busking" (playing music for tips) who was noticed and booted - and I can understand that type of action.  But of all the beggars I've seen here, none were farangs.

 

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

If they are demanding that the monthly income amount be deposited in a Thai Bank-  one could take the money out  of a foreign bank; then deposit in a Thai Bank and then live off the amount each month.

But what to do with the rest one doesn't spend?  I suppose many on retirement will be bringing the money in, then cashing it out, and sending it back (since many do not require that much to live well here), then bringing it back in, again.  Most should have enough "extra" to move around in circles, above what they actually spend every month.

 

So say you need 40K/mo to live well - you xfer 65K in, withdraw and send-back the 25K extra, then rinse-repeat every month.

[mfd101]

12 minutes ago, tropo said:

It’s AUD 71 converted into baht at start of month. Currently about 1700 baht. Prior to 1 January 2017 it was around 500 baht.

 

 

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1680฿ 2 weeks ago (but the xrate has worsened since then) ...